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Thread: Andrew & Tamra's 818SR EM Autox Hybrid Destroked Long-Rod Build

  1. #1
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Andrew & Tamra's 818SR EM Autox Hybrid Destroked Long-Rod Build

    We brought our 818 home today! We've kept a donor thread here for the full teardown process, but now that it's time to start assembly, we figured we should create a build thread. Our 818 is #297.

    Our excited faces:


    We ordered a white body:


    As one of our friends put it, "the 818 is definitely the better move"



    We have never owned Subarus before (Mazda family), and we've definitely never built a car before. Let alone a motor. This will be a learning process. Our goal is to autocross our 818 and also have it be street legal. Our hope is to have it on the road next spring.

    We are going to build a 2.34L destroked short block, built for up to 650whp, but we will be tuning it to around 350whp max, with multiple maps. The machined 2.0 Heads will have an upgraded valve train. Oiling will be our limiting factor, so we will be running it at 8k rpm max to start. We are still deciding on the turbo, but leaning toward a BW 200SX twin scroll setup.

    We will be doing all of the assembly of our engine. Larry's Power did the machine work on the heads and block and balanced the rotating assembly. We balanced the rods and pistons ourselves to .1 grams. We purchased our parts through Fidelis Motorsports, who also helped us pick the right parts for our goals.

    Updated list of parts 9/1/15
    2.34L destroked short block
    -MPS +2mm H Tuff rods
    -JE FSR Pistons
    -upgraded Tool Steel Wrist Pins
    -75mm WRX cross drilled crank
    -King Race and Main Bearings
    -ARP Subaru EJ Series DOHC Headstuds

    2.0 Chamber Matched Machined Heads
    -Shimless buckets
    -GSC Beehive Valve Springs w/ Titanium Retainer Valvetrain Kit
    -GSC Chrome Polished Intake Valve
    -GSC Chrome Polished Exhaust

    Turbo Setup
    Borg Warner S200SX 51mm .84 a/r twin scroll turbo
    Kinuguwa Twin Scroll Header (sits level with the oil pan!)
    Custom twin scroll up-pipe, fully divided into divided T4
    Two Tial 38mm EWG's, fully divided and plumbed back into exhaust


    Supporting mods:
    Speed Density with AEM 3-Bar and post intercooler temperature
    Injector Dynamics Fuel Injectors 1000cc
    Partial TGV deletes
    Forge bpv
    Grimmspeed ebcs
    DW 300lph fuel pump
    STI oil pan
    Killer B Motorsport Ultimate Oil Pickup
    Killer B Motorsport Oil Baffle Windage Tray
    New OEM 11mm oil pump, 4 shims
    Cobb intake
    NGK 1-step colder plugs
    Semi-parallel fuel lines
    Gates Racing Timing Belt
    Group N engine and transmission mounts
    Frozenboost AWIC with upgraded Bosch pump


    Other items:
    ACT StreetLite Flywheel
    South Bend Stage 2 Endurance Clutch
    OBX LSD (upgraded washers/bolts)
    FFR adjustable lateral links
    Aluminum control arms for the "castor mod" with 4mm spacers
    Stainless steel braided brake lines
    Custom sway bar TBD
    Koni 30 series shocks with 500lb springs in front (R package)
    Race seats - Sparco Corsa
    15" and 16" wheels with Hoosier A6/A7's
    Prosport Gauges with alarms
    Custom shifter routed with cables going straight back
    Schroth Profi II ASM FE harnesses with sub straps (DOT approved 5 point)
    The car IS street legal and registered

    Other project creep TBD


    We have very limited space (two 10x20ft garages, one which is fully taken by the Miata and the bike), so when we got it home, first thing was to hang the body panels from the ceiling of our second garage. The bumpers and fender didn't fit, but at least most of them are out of the way.


    All tucked away:


    At this point, all of our donor parts have been cleaned and painted, bushings replaced where necessary, etc. The wiring harness has had a once through and had everything unnecessary deleted, although we haven't re-routed anything yet. The transmission has an OBX lsd installed with the upgraded washers. We are still in process of building the motor, so that is one of the primary items on our list for this week, in addition to taking inventory. The only items on the packing list that were backordered were small items that we will not need for awhile.

    Thanks to all of the threads on this forum, we have already learned a great deal. As you read through our posts, please feel free to comment if you see any issues or have any recommendations.

    Also, my better (or at least more mechanical) half is Andrew, forum name xxguitarist.
    Last edited by Tamra; 09-01-2015 at 08:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rasmus's Avatar
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    E Modified, destroked long rod?! I love you guys.
    Fast Cars, Fast Women, Fast Haircuts!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasmus View Post
    E Modified, destroked long rod?! I love you guys.
    Our car probably won't be as anorexic as yours I mean, our H-Tuff +2mm rods with upgraded ARP bolts are 573.1 grams, whereas yours are only 519 grams. There's no catching up with you now.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    That should be a nice build!
    Rasmus vs AndrewandTamra on E Modified.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  5. #5
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Forget Jeff Kiesel, we'll have our own competition Too bad Rasmus is in Vegas and we're in CT. It'd be fun!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Rasmus's Avatar
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    We'll meet at SixStar's place in Colorado.
    Fast Cars, Fast Women, Fast Haircuts!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Howabout Lincoln in a few years

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    Howabout Lincoln in a few years
    Even better. A little 818 head to head (to head to head w/ codrivers).

    If I tighten the skills up on the nut behind the wheel, I just might mid-pack.
    Fast Cars, Fast Women, Fast Haircuts!

  9. #9
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Congrats on the pickup... You win the prize for the most detailed build title.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasmus View Post
    Even better. A little 818 head to head (to head to head w/ codrivers).

    If I tighten the skills up on the nut behind the wheel, I just might mid-pack.
    Yeah.. us too for sure. It's easy to work on the car compared to tightening that nut. That's the hardest part.

    Quote Originally Posted by wleehendrick View Post
    Congrats on the pickup... You win the prize for the most detailed build title.
    Hey, at least I didn't say "Andrew & Tamra's 818SR EM Autox Hybrid Destroked Long-Rod AWIC That Might Have a Twin Scroll Build"

    ...or something mushy...


  11. #11
    Senior Member Rasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    We also swapped the bearings over from the old open front diff to the OBX. Removing them without damaging them was a little challenging, but using an arbor press, some thin walled aluminum tubing, and a piece of steel cut to match, we got them off. Pressing them on the OBX was a piece of cake since they just slide right on.

    Old and new (prior to bearing swap):
    Okay. How in the world did you two get the "hard" bearing off the differential without Subaru's $150 tool or destroying the bearing cage?
    Fast Cars, Fast Women, Fast Haircuts!

  12. #12
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    I just destroyed the one on the ring side - it's less than $20 at RockAuto. The one on the other side is easy to get under with a bearing puller.

  13. #13
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Rasmus,
    On the gear side, I tried a [``````\______/``````````] shaped puller that i'd made to use with C clamps on the other side.. No dice.

    I wound up clamping the stock diff in soft jaws on a vise, and sneaking in a (huge) flat head screwdriver to catch the inner race, which had a tiny overlap.
    Wound up switching to a small prybar with partial J shape after there was space for it. Slid right off, arguably easier than the other side

    Not to say there wasn't swearing involved..

  14. #14
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    So we finished taking inventory of all of the parts. Factory Five forgot to mention that we have to build it out of paper. No wonder it's so light! (not really - there are 9 boxes of parts still with plenty of paper padding not pictured). It took us 3.5 hours, working together.



    Only one pair of items was missing that wasn't on the backorder list. Unfortunately they are a suspension part, so it could hold us up on making it a roller. Hopefully they can get it to us quickly. The sheet metal in general was in good shape, although definitely some burrs to remove. One cockpit piece was very badly dinged up, so we're hoping for a replacement on it. Lots of welding slag and not always the prettiest welds, but nothing that would get in the way of proper function as far as we can tell. It's going to be a race car, some function over form is fine with us.

    The body panels will need some gel coat repair around some corners, but nothing unexpected. No broken pieces or anything major. FFR provided us with a gel coat repair kit, and even pointed out some of the areas that weren't the best.

  15. #15
    Senior Member riptide motorsport's Avatar
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    Very cool......such an exciting time!
    FFR Daytona Type 65 Coupe
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    All toys still in the Scuderia!


    Every Saint has a past..................every sinner a future

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  16. #16
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Did you choose one of the two last white kits with the discount...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  17. #17
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    Did you choose one of the two last white kits with the discount...
    No, we did not. These were supposed to be new panels, and we requested them to be white instead of red. We actually called and asked about the ones with the discount, but they said it was too late as ours was already partially packed up, and there was no way to get the discounted frames powder coated at that point anyway. Although, we do need to check with them, as there appear to be handwritten dates on the backs of the panels and some of them are pretty old dates...
    Last edited by Tamra; 10-28-2014 at 05:42 AM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    as there appear to be handwritten dates on the backs of the panels and some of them are pretty old dates...
    You don't know? Those are the expiry dates of the panels.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  19. #19
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    You don't know? Those are the expiry dates of the panels.
    haha I hope not FFR responded and said that ours were indeed new panels, although we are still puzzled about the dates written on the back. They sure looked like dates... 9/27, 6/17, etc. Anyone else have dates on their panels? Were they close to your pick up date or completely random numbers?

    Otherwise, FFR was very responsive (emailed back first thing this morning) and helpful. On the one interior panel that was dinged up they are sending us carpet to cover it and the rest of the center console, and they are getting us the missing parts right away.

  20. #20
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I'll check my new panels tomorrow for dates, my original panels were not dated
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  21. #21
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Thanks Dan! Ours were on tape on the backside.


    Quick time lapse of parts inventory:


  22. #22
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    Timelapse is awesome. You should do that for the whole build.

  23. #23
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    my nose piece has a piece of tape with the date on it, is is the correct date for when Dave asked them to make up my panels as replacements. the front fender has a spot where it looks like tape was removed, the other pieces, no tape.
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  24. #24
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDude_1 View Post
    Timelapse is awesome. You should do that for the whole build.
    We probably will.. But not at quite that slow of a relative speed. 1 min for 3.5 hr still gets a little boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    my nose piece has a piece of tape with the date on it, is is the correct date for when Dave asked them to make up my panels as replacements. the front fender has a spot where it looks like tape was removed, the other pieces, no tape.
    Thanks for checking! I'll see what FFR says about a photo of those labels...

  25. #25
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    I've fallen off with my timelapse. I got a new computer at work and the antivirus won't let me load my video software and the gopro software isn't as user friendly. It's always fun to watch them.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
    I've fallen off with my timelapse. I got a new computer at work and the antivirus won't let me load my video software and the gopro software isn't as user friendly. It's always fun to watch them.
    you should be able to make an exclusion on the antivirus so it knows its ok.
    Also, any timelapse is funnier if you play the Benny Hill Theme in the background.

  27. #27
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Who says motorcycles aren't practical?

    Brought the aluminum front LCA & most of the assorted brackets that need to be painted with me to work today.


    Took all the brackets to the deburring wheel, then a quick media blast. Much better.


    I'll drill & mill the LCAs later today for the lower shock perch.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    So we learned tonight that one should never use calipers around the 818.

    Upper control arm mounting area (inside of powder coat lip, so area of most clearance):


    Upper control arm:



    Only 40 thou of interference... nothing many blows with a hammer couldn't fix.... 3 out of 4 corners required this "fix." Also had to reassemble one of the upper control arms, as we had two lefts the way they came. That was easy though.

    It is a little heart breaking to have to start smashing our new toy with a hammer on our first night working on it Guessing this will be the first of many, though.


    Ground off the "nub" in prep for R height:


    Also milled the mounting points flat:


    Milled the back for parallel nut surface:



    It was too cold and rainy to paint any of the brackets tonight. Luckily, we have plenty of other things to work on in the meantime... including the short block we haven't gotten to yet. Last night we practiced measuring the clearances on the old set with the bore gauges. Now it's time to do the real thing.

    Got some bad news on the body panels. They were not freshly made as we were told, and the dates on the back were the dates dates they were made. We are working with FFR to resolve this issue, and will report back once we have a solution.

  29. #29
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    So we learned tonight that one should never use calipers around the 818.
    This goes double for all the chopped to length spacers. They're almost accurately enough cut to pick the difference between two close standard sizes.. +/- ten thou.

    Anyone have some meds to tame a case of OCD? I think that was line item 8 on the engineer's BOM.

    Don't get me wrong, it ought to all bolt together OK after a bit of persuasion, and we're very excited still, it's just the sort of thing that gives me a headache.
    Last edited by xxguitarist; 10-29-2014 at 08:15 PM.

  30. #30
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    When you weld stuff up it "moves" don't adjust with a hammer, make a spreading tool with a bolt and nut and washers

    the spacers all can use some grinding. I mixed and matched... I powder coated them all and measured them, you use them like puzzle pieces, may need to make a new one once or twice and making one a wee narrower on the belts sanding wheel of my grinder happened a few times. I had to make some on a lathe for the lower control arms

    Good luck with your panels... If like me you want to stay gel coat and avoid the cost of paint they can make panels that look pretty good, not perfect...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  31. #31
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Does it matter when the body panels were made? What matters is the finished product and some guys have complained that their panels were too fresh and still "degassing" (I occasionally do also).

    Like Dan said, you'll soon learn that this is not Lego-like where everything fits perfectly the first time. You've got to think constantly about how it should fit and what you can do to make it as perfect as you like. Relax, and post a sign in your garage: "If it were easy, everybody would be doing it."
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  32. #32
    Director of R&D, FFR Jim Schenck's Avatar
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    If you are doing the dropped ride height then the upper control arms should mount on top of the chassis and not in between the brackets. Use a washer stack or spacers to fill the old control arm space and that way you are still using the strength of both arm mounting plates.

    Also I agree with Pete, the longer a panel sits before it has bodywork done the better. Even though the vinylester resin is much quicker to a final cure than the older poly stuff you still want the panel to do as much curing as possible before doing your fitment. The only reason more recent panels would be better would be if there was a change in the process or the part shape, but there hasn't been other than gelcoat color.

    Also I have instructions on doing the dropped ride height if you want them, justy shoot me a PM.
    Jim Schenck
    Factory Five Racing

  33. #33
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    When you weld stuff up it "moves" don't adjust with a hammer, make a spreading tool with a bolt and nut and washers

    the spacers all can use some grinding. I mixed and matched... I powder coated them all and measured them, you use them like puzzle pieces, may need to make a new one once or twice and making one a wee narrower on the belts sanding wheel of my grinder happened a few times. I had to make some on a lathe for the lower control arms

    Good luck with your panels... If like me you want to stay gel coat and avoid the cost of paint they can make panels that look pretty good, not perfect...
    Good point on the spreader. Will do for all future adjustments.

    What did you use as a replacement stainless tube material for those that you made on the lathe?

    We plan to run partial gelcoat, partial vinyl wrap. It will be a race car for us. The panels won't need to be paint-free perfect, but there is the expected work to do anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by AZPete View Post
    Does it matter when the body panels were made? What matters is the finished product and some guys have complained that their panels were too fresh and still "degassing" (I occasionally do also).

    Like Dan said, you'll soon learn that this is not Lego-like where everything fits perfectly the first time. You've got to think constantly about how it should fit and what you can do to make it as perfect as you like. Relax, and post a sign in your garage: "If it were easy, everybody would be doing it."
    Pete, It's more a matter of what we discussed with our sales rep at FFR. We were told we would have fresh, post-red-gel-coat, but white, per our request, panels.
    We don't know how they were stored when they were freshly out of the molds. Some panels sit out on the lawn behind FFR. We planned to (and are) baby(ing) them as soon as we got them, storing them in nets, supporting pressure evenly across the surface, in a mostly climate controlled basement garage. Not sure if it makes much of a difference, but any warping sustained in new panels would be on us, not previous conditions.
    Also, we paid full price because they said the older, discounted panels were not an option, only to find out we received at least some of the old panels.

    We don't expect the build to be easy, or even necessarily straightforward.
    The biggest point though, is trust. We just want the story to match the labels on our panels. FFR has been responsive so far, though, to our questions.

    We'll give an update later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schenck View Post
    If you are doing the dropped ride height then the upper control arms should mount on top of the chassis and not in between the brackets. Use a washer stack or spacers to fill the old control arm space and that way you are still using the strength of both arm mounting plates.

    Also I agree with Pete, the longer a panel sits before it has bodywork done the better. Even though the vinylester resin is much quicker to a final cure than the older poly stuff you still want the panel to do as much curing as possible before doing your fitment. The only reason more recent panels would be better would be if there was a change in the process or the part shape, but there hasn't been other than gelcoat color.

    Also I have instructions on doing the dropped ride height if you want them, justy shoot me a PM.
    Jim,
    We'd definitely appreciate the instructions on the R height setup. Our intent is to check clearances at R height, but assemble initially at S height to make it appear more street-worthy to the CT DMV.
    I'll PM you for that.

    If no changes in process, are there difference in trim or finishing instructions from the molders? It seems like later builds have had less issues with fitment.




    I worry that we're coming across more negatively than we intend. We are very excited for this car, the process, and the result. There's huge potential, we just have to figure out how to get there. We want to document the process honestly, for future builders.

  34. #34
    Senior Member Rasmus's Avatar
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    Option: Assemble the suspension at R height and wind the coil over collars up an extra 22 mm for inspection.
    Fast Cars, Fast Women, Fast Haircuts!

  35. #35
    Director of R&D, FFR Jim Schenck's Avatar
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    There haven't been any recent changes in the trim, not in the last year I would say (last one i can think of was for the rear hatch pin mounts last summer). My guess is that all of the info on the forum build threads is benefitting later builders more than any other factor. Also the change to red was done to help with panel quality so that may be helping as well in the very recent builds.
    Jim Schenck
    Factory Five Racing

  36. #36
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Re material for spacers... doesn't really matter, basically a custom diameter and thickness washer. I have 3 friends with machining capabilities and I move the work around... any stainless makes a great washer, whatever stock they have on hand. You know how it is scrounging engineers always have stock hanging around from other projects! I just donated a chunk of aluminum for a steering wheel adapter and six 6mm screws to another 818 builder... you never buy exactly what you need and those favors come back over and over!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  37. #37
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasmus View Post
    Option: Assemble the suspension at R height and wind the coil over collars up an extra 22 mm for inspection.
    That could definitely work. We weren't sure there was enough collar range left to put the car at 22" headlight height.


    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    Re material for spacers... doesn't really matter, basically a custom diameter and thickness washer. I have 3 friends with machining capabilities and I move the work around... any stainless makes a great washer, whatever stock they have on hand. You know how it is scrounging engineers always have stock hanging around from other projects! I just donated a chunk of aluminum for a steering wheel adapter and six 6mm screws to another 818 builder... you never buy exactly what you need and those favors come back over and over!
    Yep, just wondering if you'd found a good source of stock. I hate machining most stainless steels.

  38. #38
    Moonlight Performance
    Hindsight's Avatar
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    I like the milled control arms.... though I'm wondering where you are hiding a milling machine in there?!

  39. #39
    Senior Member JAubin's Avatar
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    Looking like you guys are off to a great start! One thing before you paint your shock mount brackets, is to check the fit of the bolts...mine and some others hit the welds on the end you have towards the ball joint hole. Needs some grinding (tho a quick shot with the right size end mill would be easiest) just annoying to have to do after you've painted/powdered it.
    --Joe
    818S #234 V7 EJ207 Spec-C (VF34) Build Thread

  40. #40
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    I like the milled control arms.... though I'm wondering where you are hiding a milling machine in there?!
    Thanks! Seemed good to give them a flat surface to set upon, same for the nuts.
    We hide it right next to the blasting cabinet, on the other side of the lathe & bandsaw.. at work!

    Quote Originally Posted by JAubin View Post
    Looking like you guys are off to a great start! One thing before you paint your shock mount brackets, is to check the fit of the bolts...mine and some others hit the welds on the end you have towards the ball joint hole. Needs some grinding (tho a quick shot with the right size end mill would be easiest) just annoying to have to do after you've painted/powdered it.
    I think I see where you're talking about- the weld bead protrudes into the head surface area of the bolt?
    I'll grind that, not try and mill it. Welds are HARD. Thanks!

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