Andrew & Tamra's 818SR EM Autox Hybrid Destroked Long-Rod Build

[Tamra]

Buttoned up a few more things last night. We installed the front undertray and also a bar, as cone protection... when I hit the wall of cones at the last event we learned how unprotected the radiators are, and wanted to take some steps to protect them.



We also had some issues with our overflow tank splashing at the last autocross. When I hit the wall of cones, we saw coolant all over everything and initially thought I had broken the radiator, but later found out it was thankfully just the overflow tank splashing (it's amazing how much the bottle fills when the car gets up to temp - it started at the "low" line, and was well over the "full" line while autocrossing. However, we do have a lower PSI radiator cap due to our turbo coolant tank delete for the oil cooled turbo). In fact, you can see the remnants of the splashed coolant on the radiator fan...

We bought a square one and relocated it. The capacity is actually quite a bit more than the OEM one, and we can have it placed upright. Hopefully this will do the trick.

[Tamra]

Went to autocross today. The course was not the best for the 818 - very tight, lots of hard offsets, and very few places to use the throttle. Oh, and a stop box at the end of a straight that was wayyyyy too short. Let's put it this way: I had no problems over-using the brakes today (locking them up actually, especially trying to get stopped at the finish) and was wishing for a faster steering ratio. However, when I ran my S2000 in fun runs I still found myself spinning the wheel much more than usual...I'm going to say the course was worse than average. We've really got to get the 818 out into some open air to stretch its legs soon.

The highest post intercooler temperature we saw was 88 after boosting (65 ambient today), but the temp was not getting cooled down much in grid (sitting about 81) due to our lack of ducting. We noticed that since we have not added ducting, the radiator fans are pulling air from the space between the radiator and the AWIC, and so it is not getting much airflow being forced through the AWIC radiator. We are going to add ducting before next weekend. We will be doing an autocross school, and will likely get around 60 total runs in one day, so cooling will be more necessary (weather dependent, otherwise we'll run the S2000).

Here's a video from today. I was 8th overall by raw! There were two SAE cars at the top...:

[Tamra]

We are needing to get more negative camber in the front of the car in order to not destroy our race tires, but we are bottoming out the upper A arms. We looked at moving the control arm out to the wagon hole, but based on our measurements we would not have enough tie-rod thread to do that. For the record, the 02 WRX tie rod thread is about 2" in length. This photo is maxed out - the threaded end was about to fall out in this photo.




Instead, we cut down the upper A-arms. We took off a few threads and also shortened the center nut down. It appears we gained more camber, but we are not sure what the final numbers are yet.



We also installed EBC yellow brake pads:




We have one more wheel to finish the brake pads on, and need to cut down the other A-arm, and then torque everything, which we will finish up tonight. Tomorrow we will work on ducting the AWIC radiator.

[Scargo]

I wonder about the camber gain. Perhaps the distance between upper and lower is great enough that it is not bad. Shortening the arm will increase it, which, perhaps you want in Auto-X. I was told to shoot for .5° gain (per inch of travel).
Glad to see that you did well, regardless.

[D Clary]

I did the same to my uppers, I could not get any camber otherwise.

[ben1272]

Dang your car is quick! Those cones come up fast!

[Tamra]

Dang your car is quick! Those cones come up fast!

Welcome to the forum!

When I first watched the video back without sound, I thought there was a glitch that was fast forwarding sections.. then I realized those were the sections where we could use the throttle! The car is super quick. We are hoping to get it out on a big, fast course this Sunday up in Ayer, MA.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi Tamra,
What is knocking at 13 seconds?
Quick hands at 29 second
Did you get a cone at the 41 second mark in the stopping zone?
Did I see some front tire braking smoke at 42 seconds?
Bob

[Tamra]

13 sec: you're hearing the catch cans resonating through the metal tubes (or something else pinging through the frame).
29 sec: not quick enough to keep up with the car!
41 sec: yes, the stopping distance was way too short.
42 sec: yes you did! On the very last run of the day we adjusted the brake bias to take out some front and it was much better. The used c71's on the front were not heating up as well as the a6's and they tended to lock up easily.

[Tamra]

We were able to get about ~-2 degrees of camber in the front and ~-3 in the rear (rear is wide open for adjustment though). We had to cut down the passenger a-arm more than the driver side for some reason, but they are now pretty equal on both sides.

Also, forgot to mention that at the last event we fuel starved mid corner and the car bump started itself on the straight when it got fuel again. The gauge was reading 3/4 full at the time, although we have been having problems with its accuracy (seems to fluctuate a bit). The car should have had about 10 gallons at time... We dumped in another 5, the gauge read full, and we did not have any further issues. A fuel cell is in our future...

[Scargo]

Swirl pot or HydraMat as alternative?
More cutting on the UCA for more negative camber?

[idf]

Welcome to the forum!

When I first watched the video back without sound, I thought there was a glitch that was fast forwarding sections.. then I realized those were the sections where we could use the throttle! The car is super quick. We are hoping to get it out on a big, fast course this Sunday up in Ayer, MA.

Sunday or Saturday? The Ayer site lists an autocross school Sat, nothing Sunday. I might try to make it up.

[Hindsight]

Be careful of the fuel starvation. I would think it could pop a motor due to lean condition if it happened under full boost.

[philly15]

We were able to get about ~-2 degrees of camber in the front and ~-3 in the rear (rear is wide open for adjustment though). We had to cut down the passenger a-arm more than the driver side for some reason, but they are now pretty equal on both sides.

i had the same issues as you both did with trying to get the negative camber i wanted. my goal was -2.5 to -3.0 so i had some wiggle room. I did the same basically cut each side of the shorter arm equal. This in addition to slotting the upper hole on the IFS bracket per suggestion from Wayne (didnt take much, i slotted it enough to get the stock cam bolt in for reference, then put the normal bolt back in and tightened it down) i was able to get -3.1 degrees per side. I am also having the fuel gauge issue, i only put in 5 gallons last fall, and mine is sitting at 3/4. That is probably my biggest complaint so far, due to the mentioned lean running issues by fuel starvation.

[Tamra]

We went to the school at Devens today. Got a lot of seat time, learned some, and got to thoroughly shake down Bug. We estimate that between the two of us, the car had over 60 minutes of actual run time, including 24 hot laps of a ~50 sec course (no wait beyond 1 car, then go again).

The only gremlin we had was a CEL for the rear O2 (which we have disconnected). We thought it was deleted in the tune, and it hasn't caused a problem at the small local lot. However we were hitting full boost and full throttle today, a lot, so it must've triggered something. After the initial scare (idle went all over the place and had knock correction of -2), we figured it out and just had to clear the code every few runs. Annoying, but easy fix.
Post inter cooler temps stayed 99 and under even after sections of full boos, and 80 in grid. It was a little over 70 today. We started spraying the awic radiator with water during our hot laps and it worked great, reducing the temps to low 90s at WOT.

More to come tomorrow after the event. NER is hosting their first autox tomorrow, so IDF, you are welcome out!

We might have sound problems... Will have to see. Must stay under 90db at 75 feet.

[Tamra]

Also, will respond to all of your questions tomorrow when we are on laptops! Tired of typing on an iPhone

[Frank818]

So you have a spacer on the LCAs + you cut the threads of the UCAs?
Any pix of the cut threads (with the center bolt)?
You cut only the smaller threads or the one on the other side with the long bolt as well?

[Tamra]

Just got home... exhausted but happy. I think I was 12th by raw out of 181 drivers today. Finally started to trust the car and tires in runs 4 and 5 (only 5 runs today). Such a blast - all went well. Will update more tomorrow but going to bed now.

Here's a video:

[Scargo]

Pretty quick hands for a slow steering car! Good job! Can only get better. Perhaps you need to do some skid pad work at Lime Rock or similar?

[xxguitarist]

Swirl pot or HydraMat as alternative?
More cutting on the UCA for more negative camber?

Either of those could help, but I wouldn't mind a little more room to slide the seat back for street driving, so switching to a smaller fuel cell either passenger side or front mounted would be nice.

Sunday or Saturday? The Ayer site lists an autocross school Sat, nothing Sunday. I might try to make it up.

We were up for a Starting Line school on Sat, stayed over for the event on Sunday.

Be careful of the fuel starvation. I would think it could pop a motor due to lean condition if it happened under full boost.

I was driving when it fuel starved. As soon as I realized what happened, I limped it back in at maintenance throttle (vac condition) & dumped 5 gal into it. It happened on throttle tip-in, so no boost yet. It can certainly blow an engine if it happens at the wrong time.

So you have a spacer on the LCAs + you cut the threads of the UCAs?
Any pix of the cut threads (with the center bolt)?
You cut only the smaller threads or the one on the other side with the long bolt as well?

Correct. Can snap some photos in the next day or two.
We cut both, though handling was odd with the fronts (long) bottomed out, so they are adjusted to similar to stock length now.
The short side, we had to cut the male & female parts to get them short enough while keeping the lock nuts.

Pretty quick hands for a slow steering car! Good job! Can only get better. Perhaps you need to do some skid pad work at Lime Rock or similar?

Saturday at the school, one of the drills was an oval. We got quite a good feel for the cornering abilities there, though that was on street tires. Big upgrade with the hoosiers.
Also, on a bigger course, the steering rack really wasn't a problem. It's dropped priority a LOT for us actually. The local courses this year have just been silly tight.

[Tamra]

Also, just to add some more detail to Andrew's response:

We installed EBC Yellow brake pads this week. They got bedded in during the autocross school, and they work great. We had to adjust the brake bias toward the rear quite a bit, but the brakes now feel good and give a lot of feedback. People who are used to ABS still did not find them confidence inspiring (4 instructors drove a couple of runs each during the school), but with proper braking zones the pedal gives a lot of feedback and definitely has no problem stopping the car (but will lock up if pressed too hard). Also, no brake fade even when very hot. The instructors all had very positive feedback on the car and found it a blast to drive.

Alignment wise, we saw great tire wear. Yesterday I was at 26F, 25R, and still could have dropped more. A friend used a tire probe and found that the center of the tire on the front was running the hottest, followed by the inside (camber worked!), and coolest on the outside. We will have to experiment with pressures/camber to get more even temps. These were Hoosier A7's, 245/40/15's on 8" wheels. The front stuck like glue with the slightest understeer when going into a corner too hot.

The rear's were Hoosier A6's, 245/45/16's on 8" wheels. They ran noticeably hotter on the inside edge (100), pretty close on center (~98), and noticeably cooler on the outer (~88) - temps were checked < 5 minutes after a run. We might have to reduce the rear camber, and/or experiment with pressures. The car could definitely use more rear tire, as it was tough to put the power down (would light up the tires with much of any throttle).

Overall, the car was fun, easy to catch (to a certain point), predictable, and FAST. Careful application of the right foot was required. It's easy to catch to a certain point, but if pushed beyond that point a spin definitely happens (I spun 3 times during the school, all when I got greedy with the throttle. Did not spin during the race day). More rear tire would definitely be ideal.

Also, be prepared to answer questions allllllllllll day if any of you ever bring out an 818 (especially a naked one). It was overwhelming. We seriously couldn't see the car at times, based on the number of people crowded around. It was very fun to show it to everyone and we definitely met a lot of new people. The car gets a lot of attention (seriously, people taking photos while on the freeway, arms out the windows with phones and all).

Also, a BIG THANK YOU to Glyn (Scargo) for loaning us his trailer. It was so much easier to load up Bug (only two boards under the ramps) and we could actually drive onto the trailer rather than use a come along.

[Tamra]

Official results from Sunday are posted. I ended up 12th by raw out of 170 drivers that had times! Pretty good for a first outing with a big SCCA club! Andrew drove the S to get some extra prep for our up-coming pro solo.

The car has a lot more in it, between improving driver skill and prep. It's pretty exciting to see our hard work paying off.

http://sololive.ner.org/points%20event%201_raw.htm

The next month or two we will mostly be driving the S2000 in prep for some SCCA Pros and Tours that are coming up. Weeknights we will be working on our van (getting it ready for the long trips for the national events), and will start on body panels on the 818 soon. We are also scheduling an appointment to get our true speed density tune.

[Scargo]

I'm surprised you couldn't get past the 1909 Mazda RX8.
Yes! Nice to see hard work and perseverance pay off.

[Harley818]

nice results in your last outing.
Sounds like it handles well. Congrats.

You're ahead of me on having it running etc.
I just got my Prosport gauges today. Boost, elect oil temp and elect oil pressure.
What did you hook your oil pressure and temp gauges to? I don't recall whether you got mech or electric.

[xxguitarist]

We have electric also.
Oil pressure is on the top of the engine, in one of the oil galley plugs w/ an adapter.
Oil temp is currently in the drain plug of the oil pan. Might switch to a weld-in bung at some point, if there's another reason for the oil pan to come off.. It's a little inconvenient, but not awful.

Can get pics of location and/or the # for the adapter parts we used if you need.

[Hindsight]

On the top/front of the engine, there is a galley plug with an NPT adapter that the stock oil pressure switch hooks into. You can remove this if you are running an aftermarket pressure gauge. That frees up one spot. Then to the left of that plug (when looking at the engine from the front), there is an oil galley plug facing forward. You can use another oil galley NPT adapter fitting there for oil temp. That's what I'm doing anyway.

[Harley818]

Thanks for the suggestions. I know the locations you are talking about. Does the removal of stock oil pressure switch cause any CEL codes or check engine lights?

[D Clary]

you will not get accurate oil tem readings from an oil galley, it needs to be in the oil pan, or reservoir if you have a dry sump. The oil galley dead heads into the sender and there is no flow, you end up with block temp.

[sponaugle]

you will not get accurate oil tem readings from an oil galley, it needs to be in the oil pan, or reservoir if you have a dry sump. The oil galley dead heads into the sender and there is no flow, you end up with block temp.

This is an interesting theory. I thought the same thing.. however using the top ports on the EJ block do seem to work, at least better then I would expect. I have used both the front and rear ports, with the front port working a bit better (faster change).

I had the chance to measure the oil temp right before the cooler and the top of the block and there was not a significant difference, especially dynamically. I would agree that the readings should be a little less accurate due to low flow, but it was not as much of a problem as I thought it would be.

Jeff Sponaugle

[Scargo]

I have had an adapter on this AVCS banjo fitting. Had a sensor there and then moved it to the back galley plug (by the large, PCV fitting) that I think others have mentioned.
FullSizeRender (49).jpg

[Tamra]

Sorry we've been MIA for the past while. We've spent the last few weeks getting our van up and running with some much needed maintenance. When we bought it, the previous owner disclosed a leaky radiator, so we went ahead and replaced it, the water pump, pulley, tensioner, serpentine belt, and a bunch of hoses while we were at it.

Perks of a van/truck: no jack needed.


Have you ever seen a fan so big, outside of a window fan???


We also welded in some plates for some rust holes in the bed, from where the previous owner had shelving units drilled through the floor, with carpet over the top. Water would seep in and the carpet wouldn't dry, since it had a rubber mat material over the top. All of the bolt holes rusted through. So, we welded them up, and then applied Herculiner to the interior.


We also rebuilt the seats with new foam and covers.



This weekend we are going to an SCCA Pro Solo event, where we will be driving the S2000 CR. I had some fun doing some practice launches a few weeks ago, and Andrew caught a slow motion video of me.



Next week, we have an appointment for an alignment, a true speed density tune, and we're going to put Bug on the scales. Then, body panels!!! It will be nice to finally put our attention back on the 818. The van has taken a lot longer than we anticipated.

[Hindsight]

Nice, looks like you guys are setup!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Tamra,
Now you need two 818s.
Bob
P1040455s.jpg

[Scargo]

Tamra's NOT getting to drive either of my cars!

[Tamra]

My launching practice paid off. I was 2nd place in L2 for a trophy at my first SCCA Pro Solo!! I also made it into the Ladies Challenge where I was eliminated in Go 1 to the ultimate overall champion, which I was totally fine with. It was so much fun to combine drag racing and autocross, but those Z06s are tough competition against the S2000 CR (both classed together believe it or not).

Glyn, for the record, I followed strict instructions from the car owner on specifically how to launch his S2000

Tomorrow is dyno day at EFI Logics for the 818!! Speed Density stuff is all installed, fresh oil change, etc. It's supposed to be nearly 90 degrees tomorrow, so it will be a tough test. We will also be getting an alignment and put on the scales.

[Canadian818]

Good luck today on the dyno. Very interested in your alignment specs and corner weights, there's not nearly enough of that info posted.

[Hindsight]

Congrats on placing second!!

[Frank818]

Good luck today on the dyno. Very interested in your alignment specs and corner weights, there's not nearly enough of that info posted.

I second all that!

[wleehendrick]

Ricky Bobby says...



Just kidding... great job!

[Tamra]

At EFI on the scales


Our car is fat...

No driver, full tank of gas:


Me:


Andrew:



Alignment is done (will post stats later). Tune is up next.