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Thread: Is it FASTER than a Corvette???

  1. #1

    Is it FASTER than a Corvette???

    As far as the american sports car goes, the Corvette is the benchmark for a lot of people. Its the premier sports car that is most commonly seen. All of those honda kids feel pretty good if they can beat a stock Corvette. With the nicer weather I have seen a bunch of the new Grand Sport Corvettes out and about.

    So now here's the question.....If I pull up to one at the stop light can the 818 take it?

    According to GM's website the GS Corvette will go 0-60 in 3.95 Sec. Motortrend says the quarter mile is 12.2@117mph.

    Dave says that this car is going to be fast, simply because its a Factory 5 and it has to be to make it out the door. I guess I've defined what I consider fast. Can the 818 make this with the stock WRX donor, or are we going to have to sink some cash to make it faster.

    Accroding to this link that Crackedcornish put out there (http://www.060calculator.com/ ) the 818 will do 0-60 in 3.95 Seconds.

    And with the typical online quarter mile calculators the 818 will pull off a much slower quarter mile in stock form. But these are just calculators, obviously it will come down to traction and driver for the 0-60, but a quick pull on the highway with a Corvette doesn't look good with out some go fast goodies.

    Just some random thoughts from a guy who knows first hand that there is always someone faster out there........

  2. #2
    It MIGHT not be faster, but it WILL have:

    Better handling
    Better fuel Eco
    Cheaper in every regard
    Better styling (my opinion)
    Unique

    As to that I say: "oh no! your Vette is ~.3 seconds faster then me!" As I pass him at the gas station with an extra $52k (67k - 15k [Canadian dollars]) in my pocket.

    That being said .... I know of some STI owners who are pushing down about 500 WHP with about 3k in upgrades.

  3. #3
    Your 0-60 calculator says a 2011 Z06 will do 0-60 in 3.3 seconds (505hp, 3175lbs).

    Fixing the 818 weight at 1800lbs, it would require 287hp to reach that number, according to your calculator.

    That's apples-to-apples in my eye.

    On a 2002 WRX, Cobb Tuning provides a "Stage 2" map that will net 285hp, according to their calculations. All that is necessary is a turbo-back exhaust, which the 818 will likely have. It also requires 93 octane, but I think the WRX needs that anyhow.

    So Corvette territory is just a tune away and only Jim and Dave know if we're going to need a custom tune to get this thing running.

    I couldn't give a rats tukus about quarter miles, but I will be very interested to see how this thing stacks up against the big boys on the track. I don't think there will be much that can match it for dollar/lap-second. With WRX consumables being fairly inexpensive, I think that that will be a big win too.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post
    Better fuel Eco
    um, i wouldn't count on that one, i will guess it will be "comparable", subaru engines are not that great when it comes to fuel mileage, but then again the 2WD and lighter weight should help some, just not sure if it will be better. The Corvettes get fantastic fuel mileage for what they are.

    http://www.corvetteblog.com/archives...nomy-test.html
    Last edited by StatGSR; 04-19-2011 at 03:23 PM. Reason: added link

  5. #5
    I guess it's a good thing one of those Outfront Motorsports 900hp H6's won't fit in a 818 then, or you'd be to 60mph in 1.4 seconds....if the G's didn't make you blackout first

  6. #6
    Senior Member readymix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post
    It MIGHT not be faster, but it WILL have:

    Better handling
    Better fuel Eco
    Cheaper in every regard
    Better styling (my opinion)
    Unique

    As to that I say: "oh no! your Vette is ~.3 seconds faster then me!" As I pass him at the gas station with an extra $52k (67k - 15k [Canadian dollars]) in my pocket.

    That being said .... I know of some STI owners who are pushing down about 500 WHP with about 3k in upgrades.
    500WHP? On what dyno? And don't say Crawford Performance's dyno. You aren't (or shouldn't be) pushing 500whp (600 crank on a Mustang Dyno or DD) without proper internals. The stock STi pistons will NOT put up with that power for very long. And any turbo that is going to put you in that range of power is going to run over 1200 bucks for snail alone. Add in those pistons (450.00+ for a set). Add in the fuel injectors as the stockers aren't up to the task. You're going to need >900cc to get to the 500 mark. Fuel pump + injectors, you're looking at well over 500 bucks there. The stock intercooler isn't going to play well with the new turbo...i mean, seriously, the list goes on. I built my car for 500whp. I don't even want to begin to go into what was involved financially. The car was in my garage for about 7 months while I gutted the engine bay and assembled the new block in my kitchen (much to the chagrin of my fiance).

    300 whp or more is going to put you into Vette Stomping territory. At least a stock one. And with the right tune, maybe running e85, a stock 2.5L WRX TD04 setup...again, with a good tune, can nail down 280whp without issue. Remember, the car is 1800lbs. You don't have to make much power to match the power to weight ratios of some serious sports cars with this thing.
    I know Subarus.

    2004 WRX
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    1969 Datsun Fairlady
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  7. #7
    Can the Corvette achieve those numbers on driver skill alone? Or do those numbers rely on the traction/launch control?

    3100lbs? Impressive. I've been out of the Corvette loop since they climbed over $50,000 for an average one.

  8. #8
    Senior Member BrandonDrums's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StatGSR View Post
    um, i wouldn't count on that one, i will guess it will be "comparable", subaru engines are not that great when it comes to fuel mileage, but then again the 2WD and lighter weight should help some, just not sure if it will be better. The Corvettes get fantastic fuel mileage for what they are.

    http://www.corvetteblog.com/archives...nomy-test.html
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure my wagon gets much worse gas mileage than a vette. I'm getting 18 in the city although I do see 25/26 on the highway.

    I think there's more to look at in straight-line performance than just power to weight here. The vette gets it's gas mileage (and straight line accelleration) because it has some seriously tall gear ratios. I think the Z06 hits 60 in first gear. However, it's still front-engined and just a tinnny bit nose-heavy. The 818 will have lower slung power closer to the rear wheels to I think it will be less tricky to get off the line and more apt to getting the power down out of the corners.

    I'd think on a real-world comparison, an equal driver will match the corvette's times in an 818 with just the stock 2.0 putting out 230hp, 9 times out of 10 tries on say, VIR's patriot course or similar. It's that last 10% of driver skill and driving on the edge that might require more hp for the 818 to compete or courses with more high-speed sections.

  9. #9
    As a Fiero owner, and MINI Cooper, and Mazda Miata enthusiast, I couldn't care less about straight line power. - i.e.: The Corvette.

    I want something that sticks like glue in the twisties/corners and puts a grin on my face each time I drive it. (It would be fun if I can slide the tail out, if I provoke it, like on a Miata, but Mazda is a genius at desigin the Miata handling. - See Top Gear: Richard Hammond Mazda Mx-5 (Miata) review "beati-dogu" on Youtube.

    The styling should be exotic and "mid-engine" looking. (No crazy long hoods with forward facing scoops on them)

  10. #10
    Its amusing to see that people are already defending this car and we haven't even seen it in go-cart form yet. Yes, the Corvette would cost more and be more comon place, but loosing is loosing. The car may or may not handle better in the curves, that is still to be seen.

    I started thos post for those that are looking to keep up with the Joneses, well guess what, the Jones's car is pretty darn fast out of the box. To pass them you are going to need some upgrades to the WRX engine setup, so start planning now.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mn_vette View Post
    I started thos post for those that are looking to keep up with the Joneses, well guess what, the Jones's car is pretty darn fast out of the box. To pass them you are going to need some upgrades to the WRX engine setup, so start planning now.
    My hypothesis, outlined above, is that these "upgrades" will be a natural part of the 818 process.

    Bench racing is fun and all, but it's still bench racing. There are plenty of fast, expensive cars that have been passed by a lowly beater on the track, and vice versa. It's all about the driver.

    If you find it funny that people are already "defending" this car, how do you feel that people are already "attacking" this car by listing cars that are faster?

  12. #12
    What do a $50,000+ mass produced sports car from a major manufacture and a $15,000 home assembled, minimalistic, glorified go-cart have in common to warrent the compairision in the first place?

    They are not even on the same map to me. Can somebody who is honestly sitting on that type of fence enlighten me as to what I'm missing here?

    I think the GTM seems a more logical comparision to the Vette than the 818. Wheelbase, weight, power delivery, emenities, fit and finish, vehicle dynamics all put the 818 in a very differt class. At least in my eyes.

  13. #13
    Senior Member readymix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn_vette View Post
    Its amusing to see that people are already defending this car and we haven't even seen it in go-cart form yet. Yes, the Corvette would cost more and be more comon place, but loosing is loosing. The car may or may not handle better in the curves, that is still to be seen.

    I started thos post for those that are looking to keep up with the Joneses, well guess what, the Jones's car is pretty darn fast out of the box. To pass them you are going to need some upgrades to the WRX engine setup, so start planning now.
    If you are considering the 818 as a car for drag racing against other like-minded boneheads in Corvettes, you've picked the wrong platform. If beating or "loosing" to vette owners is something you are concerned about, again, pick a different platform. If you think the Corvette is the end all for the Joneses, then you need to get out more. If I had unlimited funds, the last thing I'd even bother looking at would be a Corvette.

    The 818, like any extra-light weight, mid engine car, is a platform suited for track use. And not drag race tracks. The weight is centered over the car, and it's rear driven. Caveman tard-bashing of the long flat pedal isn't going to go over well as the front end is going to be light and likely all over the place. If you want a dedicated drag race car, or you have some sort of psychological condition that makes you think that 'loosing' is something you can't deal with, then you should likely check on a different platform.
    I know Subarus.

    2004 WRX
    Mods: Everything except body kits and bling.
    1969 Datsun Fairlady
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by readymix View Post
    If you are considering the 818 as a car for drag racing against other like-minded boneheads in Corvettes, you've picked the wrong platform. If beating or "loosing" to vette owners is something you are concerned about, again, pick a different platform. If you think the Corvette is the end all for the Joneses, then you need to get out more. If I had unlimited funds, the last thing I'd even bother looking at would be a Corvette.

    The 818, like any extra-light weight, mid engine car, is a platform suited for track use. And not drag race tracks. The weight is centered over the car, and it's rear driven. Caveman tard-bashing of the long flat pedal isn't going to go over well as the front end is going to be light and likely all over the place. If you want a dedicated drag race car, or you have some sort of psychological condition that makes you think that 'loosing' is something you can't deal with, then you should likely check on a different platform.
    Exactly the response I was looking for. Lets put some facts together and someone who thinks they are the end all of knowledge needs to throw out insults. This is a Factory Five and it is going to be used for anything a sports car is used for, drag strip, auto X, track duty, cruising around. The 818 should fit the bill just as well as any other Factory Five car in the past. There are certain standards that are used to test cars, 0-60 and quarter mile are two of them. I don't really have any data to guess what kind of G's this car can produce.

    I was not trying to say that some should look at a corvette as an alternative to the 818. I would never buy a new corvette. But it is alot more likely to pull up next to you at a stop light than an Astin Martin DB9.

    Perhaps someone would like to swing the conversation over to what it would take to get the power to surpass those levels.
    Last edited by mn_vette; 04-20-2011 at 03:44 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Magnus's Avatar
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    Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.
    --Colin Chapman

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by mn_vette View Post
    Perhaps someone would like to swing the conversation over to what it would take to get the power to surpass those levels.
    Cobb Tuning has a lot of maps available on their website along with a list of what power they produce and what mods are necessary to use those maps. That would be a great place to start collecting data.

    (there are plenty of other tuners out there, but Cobb is what I have, so that's why I keep referring to them)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by thebeerbaron View Post
    Cobb Tuning has a lot of maps available on their website along with a list of what power they produce and what mods are necessary to use those maps. That would be a great place to start collecting data.

    (there are plenty of other tuners out there, but Cobb is what I have, so that's why I keep referring to them)
    It looks like a Cobb Stage 2 with no Cats might do the trick nicely, depending on our exhaust setup. 54rwhp is a nice bump up.

    http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/?id=2304

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mn_vette View Post
    Exactly the response I was looking for.
    so you admit your intention was to troll the forums, and get a reaction out of people?

    your question didnt get a very warm reception, because it makes you look like a troll, or a moron...

    its a car, build it with as much power as you can afford to, and it will beat anything you like.

  19. #19
    Has anyone contacted Cobb tuning about the FFR 818 yet? It would be great if they get on the ball early, and offer options to Factory Five right out of the gate when the car is ready to launch.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by StatGSR View Post
    um, i wouldn't count on that one, i will guess it will be "comparable", subaru engines are not that great when it comes to fuel mileage, but then again the 2WD and lighter weight should help some, just not sure if it will be better. The Corvettes get fantastic fuel mileage for what they are.

    http://www.corvetteblog.com/archives...nomy-test.html
    I don't fully agree. I have a 2.5l 500hp Subaru and I can get close to 30mpg if I don't push it on highway. You may get mid 20's on the highway in a vette?, but, I would think fuel economy would be significantly better in city with a turbo subaru.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsOnTheWire View Post
    so you admit your intention was to troll the forums, and get a reaction out of people?

    your question didnt get a very warm reception, because it makes you look like a troll, or a moron...

    its a car, build it with as much power as you can afford to, and it will beat anything you like.
    Obviously you didn't get the sarcasm that was intended.

    I'll say it one more time, the goal of the post was to show people how fast the modern production car really is and to try to find out what we would have to do to the 818 to keep up with it.
    Last edited by mn_vette; 04-20-2011 at 01:49 PM.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by readymix View Post
    300 whp or more is going to put you into Vette Stomping territory. At least a stock one. And with the right tune, maybe running e85, a stock 2.5L WRX TD04 setup...again, with a good tune, can nail down 280whp without issue. Remember, the car is 1800lbs. You don't have to make much power to match the power to weight ratios of some serious sports cars with this thing.
    2005 Stock block 2.5 Subaru legacy here with 18g Zilla, e85 at 5,280+ft elevation puts down 321whp on a dynadynamics dyno with less than $4k invested. It is daily driver with no signs of damage or pending issues after 40k miles. Who knows, that could change quickly, but.... It runs a faster quarter mile than the 2009 z06. That is a subaru legacy gt (4 door sedan) beating a corvette z06 (a tuned sports car). I think this same powerplant or even a slightly less powerful one in a 1800lb car would destroy a corvette, no matter what model you try to argue with.

    I don't know...I would never be worried about not showing up a corvette(z06 or even a zr1) with a mildly tuned Subaru 2.5l in a 1800lb car. I show them up all the time in my family sedan driving into the mountains (not a zr1, that is FI also).
    Last edited by bbjones121; 04-20-2011 at 02:07 PM.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bbjones121 View Post
    2005 Stock block 2.5 Subaru legacy here with 18g Zilla, e85 at 5,280+ft elevation puts down 321whp on a dynadynamics dyno with less than $4k invested. It is daily driver with no signs of damage or pending issues after 40k miles. Who knows, that could change quickly, but.... It runs a faster quarter mile than the 2009 z06. That is a subaru legacy gt (4 door sedan) beating a corvette z06 (a tuned sports car). I think this same powerplant or even a slightly less powerful one in a 1800lb car would destroy a corvette, no matter what model you try to argue with.
    What were you getting in the quarter?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by mn_vette View Post
    I'll say it one more time, the goal of the post was to show people how fast the modern production car really is and to try to find out what we would have to do to the 818 to keep up with it.
    But let's define "modern production car" here. There are plenty of faster "production" cars than a Corvette. But how many of those cost $15k? None. You want to compare production cars to the 818, look at the 818 vs the $15k production car. No contest.

    If people have the money to buy a (insert expensive car here) and just want a fast car, they will buy that car. If people have the money to buy a (insert expensive car here) but want something different, or something they can customize, or something they build themselves, they will buy the 818. If people don't have the money to buy the (insert expensive car here), but do have enough to buy an 818, they will buy the 818.

    So I see the 818 and (insert expensive car here) two different animals that are in no way comparable.

    If you want to do a comparison, try finding used cars in the $15k range and comparing the 818 to that.*

    (edit) *or other do-it-yourself / custom cars, for that category of purchaser
    Last edited by thebeerbaron; 04-20-2011 at 02:10 PM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Niburu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn_vette View Post
    Obviously you didn't get the sarcasm that was intended.

    I'll say it one more time, the goal of the post was to show people how fast the modern production car really is and to try to find out what we would have to do to the 818 to keep up with it.
    try using italics next time you wanna be sarcastic, there is no other way we would know that other than being mindreaders through our computer screens

  26. #26
    12.7-12.9sec
    be sure you understand what 5800 ft elevation does to your performance before making a remark about a z06's quarter mile.
    Last edited by bbjones121; 04-20-2011 at 02:36 PM.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by thebeerbaron View Post
    But let's define "modern production car" here. There are plenty of faster "production" cars than a Corvette. But how many of those cost $15k? None. You want to compare production cars to the 818, look at the 818 vs the $15k production car. No contest.

    If people have the money to buy a (insert expensive car here) and just want a fast car, they will buy that car. If people have the money to buy a (insert expensive car here) but want something different, or something they can customize, or something they build themselves, they will buy the 818. If people don't have the money to buy the (insert expensive car here), but do have enough to buy an 818, they will buy the 818.

    So I see the 818 and (insert expensive car here) two different animals that are in no way comparable.

    If you want to do a comparison, try finding used cars in the $15k range and comparing the 818 to that.*

    (edit) *or other do-it-yourself / custom cars, for that category of purchaser
    I agree that these are two different types of cars. The corvette was chosen as a comparison because it is a common one that people see all the time.

  28. #28
    I'll do some research and graphing when I get home tonight so hopefully we can express this once and get it over with.

  29. #29
    There is rapidly growing a list of excellent inside jokes with this car. Eye Twitch, I told you so song, A whole list of Topless jokes that cant be printed here...

    275-325+ hp in an 1800 lb car with a FFR rigid chassis, rockin 4-corner Konis, mid-engine layout, and good lines... Designed with the pure intent of enabling guys with skills to beat guys with wallets.

    I dont want to eat, I cant sleep, and all I want to do is drop the hammer on this car and drive around Porsches.
    Here is a quote from Dave Smith. The design goal seems to be a car that will compete, no matter what the car is up against, Porshes, corvettes, mustangs, or what ever, regardless of the price for the car.

  30. #30
    Compete where? And in what arena?

    I'm hoping it's at the autocross, road course, weekend getaway, and the Sunday blast up a mountain road.

    I could care less about the dragstrip, car show, burnout contest, or the Country Club snobhouse conversation.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by bbjones121 View Post
    12.7-12.9sec
    be sure you understand what 5800 ft elevation does to your performance before making a remark about a z06's quarter mile.
    are Z06's really doing that slow at 5800ft elevation?

    at my elevation, they are running 11.9 to 12.2 completely stock. and can get into the low 11's with only a change of tires.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by PhyrraM View Post
    Compete where? And in what arena?

    I'm hoping it's at the autocross, road course, weekend getaway, and the Sunday blast up a mountain road.

    I could care less about the dragstrip, car show, burnout contest, or the Country Club snobhouse conversation.
    In every areana. So how are the drag stip and the road course that opposite? The 818 should corner much better, but if you loose the lead in the straits then what's the point? So since you don't care about the car shows, does that mean that you don't care about how the car looks?


    Have you seen the chars like this on the FFR Website. Its nice to have a real world comparison sometimes. I wonder where the 818 will fall on this chart.
    http://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/...nce/chart.html

    GTM:
    http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/perfo...perfchart.html
    Last edited by mn_vette; 04-20-2011 at 03:57 PM.

  33. #33
    Nope, just trying to illistrate that it's foolish to think a car can compete in ALL areas with another. Something is always going to give.

    Comprimises will need to be made and results will show that.

    It will be up to each individual buyer to decide if FFR made the right ones.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by PhyrraM View Post
    Nope, just trying to illistrate that it's foolish to think a car can compete in ALL areas with another. Something is always going to give.

    Comprimises will need to be made and results will show that.

    It will be up to each individual buyer to decide if FFR made the right ones.
    I agree with you, if they tried to get everything we would have a roadster/tagara/hardtop car right out of the box.

    I guess I thought most people would want one of those categories that it should excel in to be power to weight. Which is shown by 0-60 and quarter mile times. If people are ok with what ever time they get than that's fine, but if people are competing its good to know where the compitition stacks up.
    Last edited by mn_vette; 04-20-2011 at 04:07 PM.

  35. #35
    Senior Member Magnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn_vette View Post
    In every areana. So how are the drag stip and the road course that opposite? The 818 should corner much better, but if you loose the lead in the straits then what's the point? So since you don't care about the car shows, does that mean that you don't care about how the car looks?


    Have you seen the chars like this on the FFR Website. Its nice to have a real world comparison sometimes. I wonder where the 818 will fall on this chart.
    http://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/...nce/chart.html

    GTM:
    http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/perfo...perfchart.html
    Depends on how much lead you lose--if a Corvette is faster than the 818 on the straights but turns in a slower lap overall, then the 818 wins after one lap. If you want to stomp a Corvette with an 818, you're going to have to wait to do it where you can play to the 818's strengths, whatever they are. Hell, you could beat a top fuel dragster with an 818, but you'd have to do it in a way that takes advantage of the dragsters higher fuel consumption, longer turning radius and understeer. There is a reason you don't see top fuel on a Formula 1 circuit...

  36. #36
    On a 2002 WRX, Cobb Tuning provides a "Stage 2" map that will net 285hp, according to their calculations. All that is necessary is a turbo-back exhaust, which the 818 will likely have. It also requires 93 octane, but I think the WRX needs that anyhow.
    the USDM WRX/STI take 91 from the factory, you may need to run 93 if you have a JDM sti motor or have a ton of upgrades (most cobb maps for heavily modified cars are either 91 or 93)

    either way tuning for e-85 would offer the same advantage as 93 (at about half the cost) you would need a bigger fuel pump though (maybe injectors and some other things depending on other modifications) of course the cobb route does not offer e-85 maps

    as for fuel economy 18 would be nice in my Subaru, even in the 818 with far less weight and half the wheels to drive i don't imagine it would get much better, i am sure it is possible but why build a car like this if you are going to drive it like it's a prius?

    for beating a corvette or making a car great at everything... what is the saying "a jack of all trades is a master of none" i would rather have a car that does a few things spectacularly and is average in other regards then one that tries to be everything to everyone
    Last edited by Ks2; 04-20-2011 at 04:59 PM. Reason: forgot how to spell but it's ok now

  37. #37
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    I just hope it's as fun as the Elise's I've been in lately. A turbo (rebuilding currently with forged pistons, shooting for 325 RWHP) and a NA with 175 RWHP, both weighing 1983 and 1951lbs respectively. It's so much fun driving these cars, I much prefer driving them over the any vette I've driven at the track. The feel through the steering wheel, the balance and quick transitions, I really hope the FRX does it all as good or better.
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  38. #38
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    I think threads like this are dumb. The car isn't even made and therefore any speculation would be bench racing at it's finest. Corvettes are great cars, and they have their own niche, but there is no doubt that a well setup 818 would be an incredible car.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsOnTheWire View Post
    are Z06's really doing that slow at 5800ft elevation?

    at my elevation, they are running 11.9 to 12.2 completely stock. and can get into the low 11's with only a change of tires.
    Yeah they run upper 12s here. There is another legacy owner running 12.3 1/4's with a BNR 64hta( I think that is right) on a stock block also. Naturally aspirated engines suck up here. FI subarus,evos, porsches, and your few GTRs and zr1s rule the roads in denver. I am not worried about a turbo 818 having any problems showing up almost every car on the road. People at sea level may have to bump it up a notch.

  40. #40
    Apples to oranges, you could just about compare anything. With FFR cars you could just about build anything to beat anything in almost any category, handling, off the line, etc. There's so many variables.

    Honestly the comparison threads are useless. Any "blank" could beat a "blank" with the right "blank" and "blank" The 818 could take anything you want at a light with the right amount of time, money and engineering.

    Im a vette guy, I love the GTM but my concern is not beating every mustang I see. If you want to make an 818 take a Vette it entirely possible, with the times you talk of (3.95) its gonna come down to driver skill. Put some hoosiers on there get a bad a$$ launch and its all over.

    Vettes are awesome Daily Drivers, the kit cars are pride and joy, for me two different areas of satisfaction.

    Sorry for the rant, had a few drinks, lol and just espressin

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