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Thread: Just Starting Out, bought the donor, need assistance.

  1. #1
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    Just Starting Out, bought the donor, need assistance.

    I have not ordered the GTM kit yet, just purchased the donor today. However i am a long time reader of GTM forum posts, 4 years running.

    Donor:
    "2003 C5 CORVETTE CONVERTIBLE. THIS IS THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION. IT HAS 45000 KMS, THE CAR HAS EVERY OPTION AVAILABLE AND IS DONE IN THE ANNIVERSARY RED. RUNS PERFECTLY AND IS IN MINT SHAPE BUT HAS ONE SMALL PROBLEM IT IS BRANDED IRREPARABLE"
    $_20.JPG$_28.JPG

    I also purchased the GTM Manual off the website so i could start the tear down.
    I have also searched this website extensively but still have some unanswered questions

    1. The key is coded VATS, i assume this requires the BCM module but the instructions are not clear on if I need it or if there is a way to bypass it.
    2. Do I need the Corvette Flywheel?
    3. Do I need the Clutch assembly from the Porsche transaxel (or from the Corvette trans)?
    4. I want to end up with 5 point seat belts, is this http://www.northracecars.com/gtmparts.html the only option?
    5. I remember reading that someone had created wiring harness that were already completed (with the right connectors) Does anyone know if these are still available?

  2. #2
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    No one seems to be able to assist so let me answer one of my own questions so other people can benefit later.

    Q: The key is coded VATS, i assume this requires the BCM module but the instructions are not clear on if I need it or if there is a way to bypass it.
    A: VATS seems to be pretty easy to disable. Using a programs like
    EFI Live
    GM Tech II
    HP Tuners: www.hptuners.com
    LS1 Edit
    TunerCat
    Cables, software, etc seem to be around the $500 mark. Requires a laptop.

  3. #3
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    Wow! Your donor car almost looks too nice. I'll try to answer a few questions since the forum is so quite at this time of day.

    The kit will include a custom flywheel, so you won't use the Corvette flex plate/flywheel.
    You will need to buy a Porsche clutch assembly (pressure & friction disk).
    The five point seat belt would require some custom fabrication for the "between your leg" belt. A simple crossmember would have to be welded in under the floor pan. The seat would also need a through hole put in. Nothing too hard. I have purchased that rear harness bar for my car. It's a nice piece.
    You might check with Ron Francis Wiring about a "ready to go" wire harness. Other than him, I'm not sure. Others may chime in about that.

    Good luck and welcome to the club.
    Tim Sharp A.K.A. Motohead GTM #59

  4. #4
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    When you order a kit you get a box and a shipping label to send your ecm to factory five for them to disable the vats system. We are going to get someone local to take care of the vats and all the emission stuff for us. You do not get a flywheel or a adapter with the kit now or we didn't when purchased the kit in 2013. We just order a adapter and clutch kit starter and cv joints for a vender here on the site. Hope that helps out some.
    Bob

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    Any idea why the branded title? That's way to nice to tear apart.
    Mike

  6. #6
    Senior Member Taz Rules's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard and good luck.
    You'll find this is a very helpful and hospitable group. There is no shortage of inspiration and creative ideas for you to mine here.

    Don't be shy.

  7. #7
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    Thanks for the Replies ..

    if Factory Five will reflash the ECU for me does that mean that i don't need the Body Control Module at all?

    The car was in a flood, engine+ECU stayed above water however it was still written off, good news for me.... It runs amazing, the guy i bought it off was using it as his daily driver (even though it wasn't registered)

    good to know there is support here... i have a feeling i might have more and more questions as the weeks go on. :-)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    No need for the BCM. Welcome to the maddness.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyB View Post
    When you order a kit you get a box and a shipping label to send your ecm to factory five for them to disable the vats system. We are going to get someone local to take care of the vats and all the emission stuff for us. You do not get a flywheel or a adapter with the kit now or we didn't when purchased the kit in 2013. We just order a adapter and clutch kit starter and cv joints for a vender here on the site. Hope that helps out some.
    Bob
    I'm baffeled. Why would the GTM kit not come with the adapter plate and flywheel anymore? Are there just too many engine-trans combinations to deal with?
    Didn't the FFR adapter plate have a location for the shifter rod bearing? Maybe everyone is just useing cable shifters now anyway. And the kit went up $5000!!
    What!!!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member VD2021's Avatar
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    Have you read section, relative to the areas of question, in the manual yet? Though, not a precise step-by-step, it will answer most of the question you listed here.

    Welcome to the maddness!
    R/s
    Vidal
    CURRENT STATUS: Interior Rework and Bodywork.
    GenII GTM #331. Delivered (23/9/10)
    BUILD LOG AND WEBSITE:
    http://gtmbuild.weebly.com/ .

  11. #11
    Senior Member mikespms's Avatar
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    The reason for that is that the kit was designed to use a g50 porsche transaxle and g50's are hard to come by and expensive. A lot of people are using g96-00,01,30 and g97's that are plentiful and inexpensive but the adapter plate and flywheel is triple the price of the g50 adaptor.

    As far as the electrical system by using the corvette system you can incorporate all of the corvette's amenities such as abs,traction control,active handling,memory mirrors,keyless entry,security,light sentinel and so on.And is all free by using the BCM. Things that cost a bundle using ISIS and other systems.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikespms View Post
    The reason for that is that the kit was designed to use a g50 porsche transaxle and g50's are hard to come by and expensive. A lot of people are using g96-00,01,30 and g97's that are plentiful and inexpensive but the adapter plate and flywheel is triple the price of the g50 adaptor.
    So the price did not go up by $5k for the kit...more like $6k?
    Cheers,
    Dave

    GTM # 294 Build Start Date 10/12/2009,
    2000 C5 Donor, LS-1 Twin Turbo, AC/Heat, G50-20.02 6 speed, Brandwood Cable shifter
    Build site. http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv153/dfraser/

  13. #13
    Senior Member Kempo's Avatar
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    Welcome,

    If you use the Mendeola transaxle you will need the corvette flywheel and clutch.
    GenII GTM #354
    Delivered (02/09/11)

  14. #14
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    I would love to have ABS and Traction Control working. Do i just need to transplant the sensors/Wiring and BCM? I will try to read more about that. I have been through the manual 2-3 times now. I have a flight to catch tomorrow and a few hours in airports.... should give me a chance to read the manual again.

    I have been toying with the idea of which transaxel to pickup. I have found a few G50's but there seem to be many different versions. I would like to hit the 600HP mark and i have seen alot of G50's cost over 10K after they are setup. I see the odd complaint about gearing that doesn't quite line up with where it needs to be. So the Mendeola 5 speed starts to look pretty good.... I don't want to break the bank but i don't want to have to worry about destroying the transmition every time i goose it.

    This is the first i have heard that a G97 could fit.... there seem to be >7 models of the G97 all with different gearing, looks like i need to do some research to see what gearing works the best for the GTM.

    Once i have the transaxel picked out i can order the GTM kit.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Presto51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanderson1 View Post
    I would love to have ABS and Traction Control working. Do i just need to transplant the sensors/Wiring and BCM? I will try to read more about that.
    Racelogic http://www.racelogic.co.uk/index.php/en/ is a good path to go down. I've ridden in a GTM with one installed and it does work great. Kept us our of a cornfield

    Talk to forum member Rumrunner on hook up and how it well it works

    Ron
    "May you be in heaven a full half hour before the Devil knows you're dead"

  16. #16
    Senior Member mikespms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanderson1 View Post
    I would love to have ABS and Traction Control working. Do i just need to transplant the sensors/Wiring and BCM? I will try to read more about that. I have been through the manual 2-3 times now. I have a flight to catch tomorrow and a few hours in airports.... should give me a chance to read the manual again.

    I have been toying with the idea of which transaxel to pickup. I have found a few G50's but there seem to be many different versions. I would like to hit the 600HP mark and i have seen alot of G50's cost over 10K after they are setup. I see the odd complaint about gearing that doesn't quite line up with where it needs to be. So the Mendeola 5 speed starts to look pretty good.... I don't want to break the bank but i don't want to have to worry about destroying the transmition every time i goose it.

    This is the first i have heard that a G97 could fit.... there seem to be >7 models of the G97 all with different gearing, looks like i need to do some research to see what gearing works the best for the GTM.

    Once i have the transaxle picked out i can order the GTM kit.
    There are many porsche transaxles that can be used with an ls engine. The boxster s and cayman g86-20 and g87-20 six speeds are basically the same with different gear ratios and use the same adaptor as the g96, they can be found as low as $400.00 and will handle a stock ls1 with no problems, you would be pushing their limits with 400 plus hp. The 911 c2 c4 g96 are also available and inexpensive, the g97 911 c2 c4 is a japanese version of the g96 by aisin. All of them can be upgraded but it is expensive. The turbo,gt2,gt3 g96 and g97 are basically different versions of the same transaxle and use the same adaptor as the g50's, they have the round bellhousing and the starter mounts on the bellhousing.http://californiamotorsports.net/ http://ranchotransaxles.com/ http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/OtherAdaptions.aspx

    In order to use the corvette traction control and active handling you need to use the corvette magnasteer variable effort steering rack for its sensor output and the steering column sensor, lateral g sensor accelerometer sensor and the EBCM (abs module). Just remove all the corvette harness and use them.

  17. #17
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    Made a little XLS file of everything i have been able to find out about the 43 transmissions that I have heard fit. I will post the XLS when i get back to my trip, seems i have to upload it to a web server first and post the link as the FF forum wont allow .XLS files.

    Forum will mess up the formatting somewhat but you get the idea. Those G86/G87 sure are cheap! So far i have read a lot of reviews saying that they hold strong under 500 HP. Tempting.

    (Some Data may be wrong, I cut and pasted all of this from the internet...and its never wrong....... right? :-))

    Model Off Car Speeds Limited Slip Shifter Clutch 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear Ring and pinion Cost Notes
    G50/00 911 Carrera 1987-89 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.5 2.059 1.409 1.074 0.861 or 0.868 3.44
    G50/01 911 Carrera 1987-89 USA/Canada/Japan 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.5 2.059 1.409 1.125 0.889 or 0.892 3.44 $6250 Ebay
    G50/02 911 Carrera 1987-89 Switzerland 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.154 1.895 1.333 1.036 0.861 or 0.868 3.44
    G50/03 964 Carrera 2 1990-94 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.5 2.059 1.407 1.086 0.868 3.44
    G50/04 964 Carrera 2 1990-94 Switzerland 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.154 1.895 1.333 1.029 0.868 3.44
    G50/05 964 Carrera 2 RS America 1992-94 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.5 2.059 1.407 1.086 0.868 3.333
    G50/10 964 Carrera 2 RS 1992 (1993 MY) 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.154 1.895 1.407 1.086 0.868 3.44
    G50/20 993 Carrera 2 1995-98 6-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.05 1.41 1.12 0.93 0.78 3.44
    G50/21 993 Carrera 2 1996-98 6-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.15 1.56 1.24 1.02 0.82 3.44
    G50/31 993 Carrera RS 1995-98 6-speed LSD Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.15 2 1.52 1.24 1.02 0.82 3.44 Gears are to low?
    G50/32 993 Carrera RS Clubsport (Cup Car) 1995-98 6-speed LSD Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.15 2 1.52 1.24 0.97 0.83 3.44 Gears are to low?
    G50/33 993 Carrera RS 1995-98 Switzerland 6-speed LSD Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.15 2 1.41 1.12 0.97 0.82 3.44
    G50/50 911 (930) Turbo 1989 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.154 1.789 1.269 0.967 0.756 3.44 would require a flywheel from Kennedy Engineering, and a way to connect the shift linkage.
    G50/52 964 (965) Turbo 1991-94 5-speed LSD Option Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.154 1.789 1.269 0.967 0.756 3.44
    G64/00 964 Carrera 4 1989-94 5-speed PDAS (PDFD) Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.5 2.118 1.444 1.086 0.868 3.44 PDAS (PDFD) high-pressure hydraulic electronic-controlled variable traction system (rear differential and center differential)
    G64/01 964 Carrera 4 1989-93 Switzerland 5-speed PDAS (PDFD) Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.154 1.895 1.333 1.029 0.868 3.44 PDAS (PDFD) high-pressure hydraulic electronic-controlled variable traction system (rear differential and center differential)
    G64/02 964 Carrera 4 1992-93 Taiwan 5-speed PDAS (PDFD) Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.5 2.118 1.444 1.086 0.868 3.44 PDAS (PDFD) high-pressure hydraulic electronic-controlled variable traction system (rear differential and center differential)
    G64/20 993 Carrera 4 1995-98 5-speed LSD Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.05 1.41 1.12 0.93 0.78 3.44
    G64/21 993 Carrera 4 1995-98 5-speed LSD Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.15 1.56 1.24 1.02 0.82 3.44
    G64/51 993 Turbo 1995-98 5-speed LSD Rod Shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.15 1.56 1.21 0.97 0.75 3.44
    G86-20 986/Boxster gearbox (97-04) 6-speed Aftermarket 3.5 2.12 1.43 1.03 0.79 0.79 3.89 <2K Ebay Same adapter as the g96
    G87/01 Boxster 987 05-08; Cayman 987 07-08 5-speed no Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.5 2.118 1.429 1.091 0.838 3.556
    G87-20 987/Boxster gearbox (05->) 5-speed Aftermarket 3.67 2.05 1.46 1.13 0.97 0.82 3.89 <2K Ebay Same adapter as the g96
    G96/00 996 Carrera 2 1998-01 6-speed LSD Counterweighted cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.2 1.52 1.22 1.02 0.84 3.44
    G96/01 996 Carrera 2 2002-05 6-speed LSD Counterweighted cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.2 1.52 1.22 1.02 0.84 3.44
    G96/30 996 Carrera 4 1998-01 6-speed LSD Counterweighted cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.2 1.52 1.22 1.02 0.84 3.44
    G96/31 996 Carrera 4 2002-05 6-speed LSD Counterweighted cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.2 1.52 1.22 1.02 0.84 3.44 6750 EBAY
    G96/50 996 Turbo 2001-05 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.05 1.41 1.12 0.92 0.75 3.44
    G96/61 GT3R 1999-00, GT3RS(race) 2001-03 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.15 2 1.56 1.24 1.03 0.86 5 has oil cooler
    G96/88 996 GT2 2002-05 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.05 1.41 1.12 0.92 0.75 3.44 steel synchro (gears 3, 4, 5)
    G96/90 996 GT3 1999-03 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.05 1.56 1.21 0.97 0.82 3.44 steel synchro (gears 3, 4, 5) NO MOUNTS available?
    G96/91 GT3 Cup 1999-04 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.15 2 1.56 1.24 1.03 0.86 4 Oil cooler
    G96/93 996 GT3 1999-03 Japan 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.05 1.41 1.12 0.97 0.82 3.44 steel synchro (gears 3, 4, 5)
    G96/96 996 GT3 2004-05 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.15 1.56 1.21 1 0.85 3.44 Oiling system with cooler (Steel Synchro (3, 4, 5)) NO MOUNTS available?
    G97/63 GT 3 Cup Car 2009-10 6-speed LSD Cable shift 5.5 triple-disc carbon clutch 3.167 2.133 1.722 1.348 1.115 0.931 4 Oiling system with cooler
    G97/70 997 LM GT2, LM GT3 RSR 6-speed LSD Cable shift 5.5 triple-disc carbon clutch 3.154 2.438 2 1.636 1.375 1.16 2.889 Oiling system with cooler
    G97/88 997 GT2 2007-09 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.15 1.89 1.4 0.91 0.89 0.73 3.44 $12,000 EBAY Oiling system with cooler
    G97/90 997 GT3 2007-11 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.26 1.64 1.29 0.94 0.92 3.44 Oiling system with cooler
    G97/92 997 GT3 2010-11 6-speed LSD Cable shift Single-plate clutch 3.82 2.26 1.64 1.29 0.94 0.88 3.44 Oiling system with cooler
    Mendeola-SDR Custom 5-speed LSD Rod Shift 2.21 1.5 1.14 0.89 0.7 4.11

  18. #18
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
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    If you're considering using an engine that make 600 hp, and you're thinking of using a Porsche gear box, you should be looking at the transaxles used in the Turbo's or GT's. The gearing in these boxes are already close to being in synch with the power and torque of V8 engines, but where it gets a lot of it's durability is in the size of the ring gear. Standard Porsche transaxles use a 7.5" ring gear, and the Higher performance transaxles us a 9" ring gear. (There's a good reason as to why the Hot Rod crowd tends to migrate to a Ford 9" rear end when they build their cars). The larger diameter ring gear is capable of handling the higher torque range that the V8 engines can produce.

    But if you really want to set your mind at ease, you should call Roger Brown at California Motorsports, or Erik Johnson at GBox, in Boulder, CO.

    Either of these guys will gladly take the time that you need to determine what would work best for you in terms of what your build plan, and budget might be. They've been the first line of correct information for the builders of this forum for years. You may also want to give Mendeola a call to discuss the pros and cons of buying a new (warrantied) gear box from them. The GTM is designed to go either route.

    Good luck.

    Mike
    Last edited by The Stig; 12-17-2014 at 11:55 AM.
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  19. #19
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    Todays progress

    Thanks Stig, GT/Turbo is what I am looking into now. Trying to find something local for now, will keep you posted....

    I have worked out a deal with the current owner, he is taking the car apart and putting into crates that are easier to ship across Canada. (and saves me the hassle of finding storage space for another car.

    Here is what he managed to get off the car today.

    IMG_1026.JPGIMG_1027.JPGIMG_1030.JPGIMG_1031.JPGIMG_1032.JPG

    I have sent him the parts list off the end of the manual.... are there any parts that are missing from that list? I have read the instructions many times now and I couldn't see any mentioned.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    I was told Mendeola was bought out by Rancho. The box they made for the GTM is not longer. They are still producing boxes for sand-rail but the gearing is all wrong for our application.

    600Hp is a lot. If you get out to the factory look me up (I am only 10 miles from them) I will take you for a ride in my GTM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalstar View Post
    I was told Mendeola was bought out by Rancho. The box they made for the GTM is not longer. They are still producing boxes for sand-rail but the gearing is all wrong for our application.

    600Hp is a lot. If you get out to the factory look me up (I am only 10 miles from them) I will take you for a ride in my GTM.
    Hmmm... I didn't realize that Mendeola had sold, and that the GTM box was no longer available... Is Rancho maintaining warranty support for the GTM Boxes?

    Sorry Tanderson1, I don't mean to hijack your thread.


    Mike
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  22. #22
    LCD Gauges's Avatar
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    I guess most of the q's have been answered, but let me offer another option for the wiring harness: mine was made by Howell which did an excellent job with tagging
    wires, looming, and overall cleanliness.

    The VATS needs to be programmed out; a very simple procedure using HP Tuners and a handful of other flash programmers. PM me if you're stuck on this.

    Most of the people that responded here have excellent build sites, and well documented with photos. I suggest following their lead as opposed to the GTM manual.
    Also look up a guy named Gene (aka Fastthings) whom has video recorded every step of his build.

    What's "ir-repairable" about the donor?
    Custom LCD Gauges , Data Loggers, Control Touch Screens
    www.LCDdash.com \\ 647-522-9953 \\ Voice & Text
    Proud new owner of GTM Gen 1., #105 - 08/27/11
    LQ9 Powered, G96.00 6 speed transaxle

  23. #23
    Member kabacj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalstar View Post
    I was told Mendeola was bought out by Rancho. The box they made for the GTM is not longer. They are still producing boxes for sand-rail but the gearing is all wrong for our application.

    600Hp is a lot. If you get out to the factory look me up (I am only 10 miles from them) I will take you for a ride in my GTM.
    Hey Jim
    We were given bad information at SEMA. Actually it's the other way around. Mendiola sold the sand rail transaxle business and is focusing on street and racing applications. The SDR box made for factory five is a great solution. Geared perfectly for a 600+ hp LS. I track tested it and it worked very well.


    John
    XTF #2
    build start date June 19 2023

    GTM # 344
    Build Start December 2010
    First track day April 2013

  24. #24
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Well that is great news.

  25. #25
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    Another option is the 930 transaxle out of the turbo cars. Its only four speeds but according to Eric Johnson (if I'm not wrong) its actually geared good for a v8 and can handle a significant amount of horsepower stock. That is what we are using. Also a bonus is ours already had a lsd stock.

  26. #26
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    I will look into the Mendiola, I have read a lot of threads about it, everyone seems to love everything except the price. Question for someone who has bought the Mendiola, what was the final cost? (w/shipping)

    I have started watching the fastthings videos.... these are great
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQLW...W9T6mrnLLEUnVP


    Thanks for the help :-)

  27. #27
    Senior Member Edgeman's Avatar
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    If you want a Mendeola, you had better order it now. The wait times are long but well worth it in the end. I have one with a stock LS3 and it has been great. The total price I think was around $9500. That came with clutch, CV joints, does not need an adapter plate and uses stock corvette starter.
    GTM #370
    Car was completed and I have SOLD my car
    http://edgemansgtm.weebly.com/index.html
    Doing what you like is freedom - liking what you do is happiness
    later,
    Doug

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