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Thread: Ray W. Roadster Build Thread

  1. #1
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    Ray W. Roadster Build Thread

    I thought it was time to start my official build thread! Today I started working on fitting my Wilwood tandem 50/50 master cylinder and matching brake pedal.

    mc1.JPG


    The master cylinder mounting holes in the firewall plate were at a slight angle, and that wouldn't work because the bolts that mount the master cylinder also mount the pedal. (it would cause it to hang at an angle in the foot box) I elongated the hole on the left side (if you're sitting in the seat) so I could shift the pedal a little further away from the accelerator pedal, then drilled a new hole on the other side so the adapter bracket would be level. After that, I trimmed and fitted a piece of thin aluminum flashing to go behind the foot box aluminum and cover all the extra holes in the black powder coated steel foot box plate.

    mc2.JPG

    Here's the master cylinder trial fitted into place.

    mc3.JPG

    The pedal assembly trial fitted on the opposite side of the firewall.

    mc4.JPG

    In the pic below you can see that the pedal is touching the cross brace. I'll have to notch it about an eight of an inch to get the amount of pedal travel I want. It looks like it needs more than that in this pic, but if you look at the angle of the mount in the pic above, you'll see that the pedal is very well lined up with the master cylinder-a little further and it will operate in the "sweet spot" of the travel arc. I'll adjust the pedal so it almost touches the cross brace-after attaching a piece of rubber so I won't hear a clang every time I accelerate.

    mc5.JPG

    Still have more work to do. I have to fabricate a copy of the master cylinder adapter for the back side of the foot box steel. The large hole designed for different master cylinders will stress the pedal box mounting surface unevenly if I tighten the bolts as is, and would very likely crack the aluminum mount. A bracket will also have to be fabricated for the top side of the pedal box. I haven't decided on a design yet. That will be easier to do after I remove all the foot box aluminum.

    Also, two of my wheels arrived today. The other two shipped from a different warehouse and should be here tomorrow. They look even better than I thought they would, and I know I'm going to like how they look on the car. Pics to come.
    Last edited by Ray W.; 01-04-2015 at 09:00 PM.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  2. #2
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    I got a little more accomplished today. I ended up notching the cross brace a little more than I planned, just to put the pedal in a better position. I wrapped a strip of rubber inner tube around the remaining steel, then used my clamp tight tool to secure it with stainless wire.

    IMG_1831.JPG

    I made a brace to secure the back end of the pedal box to the existing braces, but I think I'll add an additional brace that attaches to the firewall plate.

    IMG_1835.JPG

    I also fitted the driver's side foot box vent. There's still a little more to do to make it operational.

    IMG_1836.JPG

    IMG_1837.JPG
    Last edited by Ray W.; 01-05-2015 at 02:22 AM.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  3. #3
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Looking good Ray! Off to a fine start.


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


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    Thanks, David. Today I used a 1/4" thick, 1 1/4" wide L-bracket to brace the top of the pedal box to both the foot box plate and the other brace I fabricated. The two top bolts in this picture (which are obviously too long) are just dropped in place to line things up while I tightened the bracket to the foot box steel. I'm calling the pedal box done and moving on.

    IMG_1838.JPG


    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    Looking good Ray! Off to a fine start.

    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

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    Here's a pic of the wheel I'm going with. They look a little like a Trigo FIA wheel, but in 17". I'm wondering how hard it would be to put knock off spinners on them.

    IMG_1851.JPG
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  6. #6
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    I like the wheel!

    I'll be honest...to me knock off spinners along with exposed lug nuts is kind of like seeing someone wearing a belt with suspenders. Choose one or the other but not both. Just my humble opinion of course.

    Jeff

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    I agree Jeff. I was picturing something like the cover over the lug nuts on the halibrand style wheels in my mind's eye. I'll most likely run the wheels as is. Today I had to order a few brake line parts from FFR, because I purchased the base kit without any brake options. Having no donor, I needed the rear mounts for the brake adapters and the rear T. Mike Forte is shipping out my differential and a set of braided brake lines and adapters tomorrow, and I'm under the impression that FFR is also shipping my upper control arms tomorrow, or today, seeing that it's after midnight as I write this. This evening I used cleco's for the first time. Dare I say that's a small rite of passage? They hold with a lot more force than I expected, or at least the ones I purchased from Summit racing do. The high temp today is 32 degrees and my workshop is unheated. I don't think I'll get much done until it warms back up a little.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    I like the wheel!

    I'll be honest...to me knock off spinners along with exposed lug nuts is kind of like seeing someone wearing a belt with suspenders. Choose one or the other but not both. Just my humble opinion of course.

    Jeff
    Last edited by Ray W.; 01-08-2015 at 10:20 AM.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  8. #8
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    I finished running the hard lines for the brakes today. I ordered the pro flaring tool from Eastwood, and a coil of 3/16" brake line from Summit Racing before my kit arrived, and I'm glad I did. I ran the line to back in one piece. Here it is laying on the floor.

    IMG_1859.JPG


    Here the line is being slipped through the rear control arm bracket.

    IMG_1860.JPG


    I mounted the proportioning valve beside the master cylinder. It will be out of sight, yet still easily accessible. There's also less chance of someone walking up when the hood is open (say at a car show) and taking it upon themselves to see if that adjustment knob really turns. I've accepted the fact that the proportioning valve may be useless and always be wide open, but since I'm using an uncommon 50/50 master cylinder, and intending to run the same size tires front and rear, I thought I'd take a chance. It stands to reason that most of the "I can't get my rears to lock up at all" is coming from guys with much wider tires on the back-which means more traction. If it is useless, at least the valve has a built in brake light switch, so I don't have to fabricate a switch mount in the pedal box. I plan to fabricate some kind of heat shield for the rear brake line, since it will be so close to the exhaust.

    IMG_1861.JPG


    The front brake lines…

    IMG_1863.JPG

    IMG_1864.JPG

    IMG_1862.JPG


    And the rear…

    IMG_1866.JPG

    IMG_1867.JPG

    IMG_1865.JPG


    This was my first time bending and fitting an entire brake line system. Having used a traditional flaring tool before, I can't say enough good things about the Eastwood flaring tool. My first flare looked just as good as my last.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  9. #9
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    Ray-

    Nice job on the brake lines! I agree that the Eastwood tool makes all the difference.

    I also like the idea of running a single continuous line where possible. It looks great.

    Thanks for sharing!

    Regards,

    Steve

  10. #10
    Senior Member 68GT500MAN's Avatar
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    Great progress on the build. I like the look of the Cragar wheels with the center cap you already have, that is a great looking wheel.
    Doug

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    Thanks, Steve. Today I fabricated a fuel pump mount from some 1/4" plate, then mounted the pump. I have to pick up a couple fittings tomorrow so I can run the lines, which will be 3/8" throughout-with one continuous line front to rear.


    Quote Originally Posted by WIS89 View Post
    Ray-

    Nice job on the brake lines! I agree that the Eastwood tool makes all the difference.

    I also like the idea of running a single continuous line where possible. It looks great.

    Thanks for sharing!

    Regards,

    Steve
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  12. #12
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    Thanks, Doug. I like the way the wheels look so much that I chose the pin drive option just so I could run them. Unfortunately, the wheels aren't available in anything wider than 8". That means my max width tire will be a 245/45/17. I'm not letting that bother me, since I want more of an original street car look. The original 427 car had a tire width of 207mm, according to the specs on this site:

    http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ti...cobra_427.html

    I'm assuming those are the specs for the street car. 410hp! That's a hundred more than my car should have with the engine mods I have planned…




    Quote Originally Posted by 68GT500MAN View Post
    Great progress on the build. I like the look of the Cragar wheels with the center cap you already have, that is a great looking wheel.
    Doug
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

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    I've updated this post because of the trouble I had yesterday trying to attach photos.


    I received my differential from Mike Forte. It was in gray primer, so after sanding the areas I needed bare metal, I masked them off and gave it the rattle can treatment. I drilled two holes in the clamp for the banana bracket before installing it, and removed the powder coat from the side of the banana bracket where it contacts the axle tube. Then it was off to the welding shop, where two rosette welds were burned into the clamp, and three 5/8" long welds to secure the banana bracket to the axle tube. When I got home I rattle-canned the bare metal and installed the axle, then the fuel tank.

    IMG_1909.JPG

    The fuel pump is mounted, and I made a mount for the fuel filter that Holley requires between the pump and the tank. The mount is made from a piece of thick wall plastic conduit that I split in half, then lined with a piece of rubber. It's secured with 3/16" pop rivets. Washers were used to leave space for the clamp so it doesn't rub on the frame. I ran 3/8" aluminum fuel line to the filter, then to the tank, where I used high pressure fuel injection hose to make the connection. I used my Clamp Tite tool and stainless wire for the clamps, and double clamped each side. It's overkill, but it won't leak.

    IMG_1906.JPG

    IMG_1905.JPG

    IMG_1911.JPG


    I know some will frown on using aluminum fuel line. I've had problems with vapor lock in the past, and aluminum will dissipate more of the heat created by the fuel pump. I put plastic wire protecter around the line between the holding clips to protect it from rocks or debris, and will do the same where it goes under the car to the front. I don't think the wire protector will act very much like an insulator, holding in the heat, because the corrugated design will expose more surface area to airflow-at least that's my theory… I also hooked up the vent hose to the Breeze tank vent.

    IMG_1912.JPG

    IMG_1914.JPG

    I've started assembling the front suspension, but plan to work on the metalwork before putting more parts in my way.

    IMG_1910.JPG
    Last edited by Ray W.; 01-19-2015 at 01:50 AM.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  14. #14
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    It's been a little over a month since I updated by build thread. I'd have more done if my workshop was heated, but here's my progress.

    With the rotor off and the frame tubes leveled, 4 1/2" from the floor (sitting on wood blocks), I determined the position of the spindle at ride height, then made struts from two oak strips-holes bored to replicate the shock length at ride height.

    IMG_1969.JPG


    A carefully measured and cut piece of cardboard placed against the frame tube served as an alignment guide for placing the rotors straight ahead.

    IMG_1977.jpg


    Camber was set at .5 degrees with the rotors on, using a dial type level that was calibrated. (the plastic one I have was not, and required careful sanding on a steel plate before it read correct when placed against a level that is accurate)

    Caster was set with the rotors off, using a straight piece of cardboard. I miked the spindle ledge the seal rides on, then cut a half circle that size into the straight edge of the cardboard. Placing the half circle on the spindle centered the straight edge, allowing easy line of sight with the ball joints. Caster was set using the dial level. With both sides set, I installed the steering rack.

    IMG_1976.JPG

    I left the F-panels off so I could measure from rotor to rotor and set the toe, which I set at a very light 1/32", given that I was working from a 11" rotor, and not a 25.8 inch diameter tire. Though I'm sure my alignment isn't perfect, I know it will be in the "ball park". I need to take and post a few pictures of my driver's side foot box mod. It's barely visible in this pic. I joined the small block lower to the 4.6 upper metal with a piece cut on angles, pop riveted into place.

    IMG_2015.JPG

    One observation… I read a post at some point where someone found that their brand new steering rack had loose pivot bolts/extensions. I clipped the holding straps and pulled the boots back to check mine before trimming the tie rod shafts. (Pin drive front control arms) Mine were tight, but during the "centering" process, I found that the tie rod pivot points did not line up when the rack was centered in its travel. (using the steering wheel lock to lock) The center of travel lined the pivot points almost 1/2" more to the passenger side.

    In the interest of minimizing bump steer as much as possible, I set the toe with the tie rod pivot points centered. My wheels won't turn quite as far to the right as they will to the left. That said, the rack is slightly more than the "advertised" three turns lock to lock, so you could say that I've gained a sharper left turn radius--cup half full, half empty--your choice…

    The worst part of this, is that the steering shaft did not line up when set up this way. It was necessary to create a new "divot" for the retaining set-screw, so the steering wheel would center. I don't like it, and I think the way the steering shaft is set up is a design flaw. I shouldn't have to modify the shaft and have a potentially less safe steering set up just to center the steering wheel….

    Normal teeth at the steering hub would allow everything to line up without any "tweaking" to an already weakened (by this I mean the material removed for the set screw to fall into) rack shaft. I could also add that the steering wheel hub set up to only attach one way takes the design flaw to another level.. End of gripe…

    I masked everything off and sprayed the interior and trunk with lizard skin, then let it dry a couple days and sprayed it again with Raptor bed liner.

    IMG_1979.JPG

    I asked FFR to switch out the precut dash for the uncut when I place my order, because I wanted to do my own layout. I didn't like the idea of having the speedometer low, where you have to look further away from the road to check your speed, so I placed it where it was more visible. This is what you see from the driver's seat.

    IMG_2005.JPG

    From further back:

    IMG_2006.JPG

    Brakes are bled. Tires and wheels in place. TCI Streetfighter with manual valve body and a 300-400 raised stall speed converter are sitting in the boxes, as is the bell housing to mate the C-4 to a 4.6. 1968 Mustang shifter and Champ oil pan are also ready and waiting. MSD box is mounted behind the fire wall and already wired. A lot of the wiring is already complete. I plan to go get the engine as soon as I've gone as far as I can go on the wiring without it.

    IMG_2023.JPG
    IMG_2024.JPG
    IMG_2025.JPG
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  15. #15
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    Here are a couple more pics..


    IMG_2026.JPG

    IMG_2027.JPG

    I measured the track width at the tire side walls. 69 1/2" rear, and 65" front, which should put all four tires 1 1/4" inside the lip of the flared wheel openings. I won't have to run high to keep from rubbing. ;-)
    Last edited by Ray W.; 02-21-2015 at 01:21 AM.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  16. #16
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Looking really good Ray! You're a man after my own heart---I thought I was about the only one who mocks 'em up to do an early preliminary alignment!



    Carry on and keep us updated!

    Jeff

  17. #17
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    Thanks, Jeff. I would strongly recommend that anyone using pin drive lower control arms do an early mock up alignment. As has been discussed before, my upper control arm adjusters had to be modified. All four adjustment sleeves had to be shortened about 1/4" on BOTH ends, and each threaded shaft had to be shortened about 3/16". The aluminum sleeves were easy-I used my miter saw with a sharp carbide blade. Works great, and cuts square--but go slow. The steel shafts-not as easy, had to use my trusty hack saw. Finished, the extra threads barely show. I trimmed enough to allow for 1 degree camber and 3 1/2 degrees caster. The caster I might use in the future, the camber, I doubt it.

    IMG_2034.JPG

    Here are a couple pics of the driver's foot box mod. When I placed the order for the kit, I missed the part about having to order special sheet metal for the 4.6. Luckily I noticed (from looking at pics on the forums) that I didn't have the correct metal. I ordered the correct metal from FF and combined the two inner side walls.

    IMG_2035.JPGIMG_2036.JPG

    Because the Ron Francis wiring harness doesn't have any extra circuits, I purchased a six fuse block from Advance Auto and placed it on the firewall brace I fabricated from the left over inner foot box metal. A large gauge wire ( with grommets ) goes through the 2 X 2 and attaches to the battery side of the cut off switch, for continuous power. The wire attached now powers the oxygen sensor heater ( I assume, since the diagram with the FAST fuel/air gauge requires two power inputs, one switched and one continuous) I will add another circuit for the reverse lights.

    IMG_2037.jpg

    I'm using a Pyle Hydro amp ( with the water resistant polyethylene speakers) with an added iPod hookup, which also has a built in charger. The speaker wires will run alongside the rear harness with the reverse light circuit and the clutch switch circuit, which will be wired to the park/neutral/reverse switch on the side of the transmission.

    IMG_2038.JPG

    I fabricated a bracket for the FAST fuel/air gauge, and another for the on/off switch and volume control for the amp. LED light lets you know its on. Mounts finished with wrinkle finish paint, just like the dash.

    IMG_2039.JPG
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  18. #18
    Member Kpt112's Avatar
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    Great job on your build! Can you provide the model Eastwood Flaring tool you used? Was it a double or single or both? Eastwood seems to have many different models. I can't see paying $250 for a tool with limited use after the build.

    Thanks
    Kevin

  19. #19
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    Kevin, I used the pro flaring tool, Item #25304 I understand about not wanting to spend that much, but I bit the bullet on this one. Most flaring tools are crap, and they'll cause you mega frustration. The main point, is that I didn't want to take chances with the brake lines. I can't see spending all this money and doing all this work, then losing the whole car and possibly my life because the brake lines suddenly sprang a leak… You can always sell the tool after you're finished, but I'm keeping mine. If I end up not liking the wilwood master cylinder I chose, I'll be able to change it without having to buy another one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kpt112 View Post
    Great job on your build! Can you provide the model Eastwood Flaring tool you used? Was it a double or single or both? Eastwood seems to have many different models. I can't see paying $250 for a tool with limited use after the build.

    Thanks
    Kevin
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  20. #20
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    Time for another update. I've gone as far with the wiring as I can go until the engine is in. The dash is mounted, but isn't fully connected because I'll have to take it back out when I do the mechanical throttle linkage.

    IMG_2040.JPGIMG_2060.JPG


    The wrinkle finish on the dash has a striped look that reminds me of curly maple. It was caused by improper application technique on the last coat, but I really like it! That may have a lot to do with the fact I used to build custom guitars for a living, (stopped that about ten years ago-too much time for too little money) and I used curly maple a lot. Off topic, but here's a picture of three guitars that I built for myself over the years. The one in the center was built in 1994. The one on the left, with the carbon fiber top and back, was made in 2012.

    threearchtopsbook1.jpg

    I made a vapor canister for the fuel tank out of a piece of 3" schedule 40 and two caps. The bottom cap is glued on and tapped for the fitting. The top is removable for service, and is held on with two self tapping screws. I drilled a hundred or so holes in the top, and the inside is filled with crushed charcoal. Pieces of 3M pad, cut to fit tightly, are placed at the top and bottom to keep the charcoal in place. I made a steel bracket to support it and pop riveted a brake line clamp behind it so I could secure the bottom end with a large zip-tie.

    vaporcanister.JPG

    Last Thursday I went to a salvage yard and picked up a 4.6 engine. It was pulled from a 2005 Mercury Marquis on Wednesday. I had my eye on a couple engines listed on Car-part.com that had lower miles, but their price, by the time they added a core charge, etc., I considered too high. I was told the engine I purchased had 83,000 miles on it. I was skeptical, of course, but looked the engine over and it looked okay. The oil, what was left on the dipstick, (the pan had been drained) looked clean and smelled fine. I checked the serial number and it matched the receipt they had already printed for me.

    After I got home with the engine, I decided to do a CAR-FAX report on the car, just to see what would come up. I got what I consider good news. The car was purchased new by a corporation as a fleet vehicle, and was driven 27,000 miles in 23 months. I can only imagine that most of that was highway miles, and most fleet vehicles receive regular maintenance. The next owner had the car 2 months and drove it a little over three thousand miles, then it went to a dealer auction. The third owner drove the car until it was totaled, having been hit hard on the driver's side front. That was six months ago, and three months before that a dealership in Sumter, not far from where I live, recorded a complete service on the car with the mileage at 79,000. The guy at the salvage yard was on the up and up about the mileage! After seeing a lot of 4.6 engines on car-part with close to or over 300,000 miles on them, I feel like I've got a good engine. Here's what it looked like the day I got it home.

    engine1.JPG

    I stripped all the stuff I don't need off and scrubbed it down with simple green, then gave it some color. A new alternator, starter, motor mounts, valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket, manifold gaskets, thermostat, water pump, rear seal, belt tensioner and idler pulley are already ordered. Today I fitted the BBK shorty headers, and had to grind a small tab off the passenger side of the timing cover for clearance. I fitted the J-pipes just to make sure everything was working out like it should. This is a mock up--the intake is not bolted down. I'm concerned that I might have to take the intake to a machine shop and remove material from the carb flange in order to get more hood clearance. I'll know more after the new motor mounts arrive and I do a trial fit with the engine. I think it cleaned up pretty good. Not really show quality, but that's not what I'm after. It will be a driver.

    engine2.JPG
    Last edited by Ray W.; 03-08-2015 at 09:01 PM.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  21. #21
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Looks great Ray The 16 valve 4.6 is sometimes thought of as kind of an ugly duckling because of it's intake and plumbing but you've changed all that! When you raise the hood a lot of people are going to do a double take and wonder what it is.

    Jeff

  22. #22
    Member Georg's Avatar
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    Hi Ray,
    Could you tell me what kind of footbox vents you are installing here? How does they work later on?
    btw. Very nice build, keep on going and post pictures... ;-))
    Thanks, Georg

  23. #23
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    Thanks, Jeff. I think the mustang guys will know because of the alternator position and bracket, but I'm sure a lot of people will scratch their heads a little. My engine choice was based more on cost than anything else, but I admit to being inspired by the junkyard jewel 4.6 that Hot Rod Magazine did. STAGE 2, 313.6 horsepower and 315 LB-FT torque. Their engine had slightly higher compression than mine will have and my carb is 50 cfm smaller, so I think my number should be right at or just under 300 HP. Here's a link the the first junkyard jewel article. There's a third article, where they revisit the project and put on a set of trick flow heads and cams. It made 453 Hp, 390 torque. Unfortunately, those heads are expensive, but they're definitely on my wish list.

    http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...rd-4-6-engine/

    http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...dular-engines/
    Last edited by Ray W.; 03-09-2015 at 11:41 AM.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

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    Georg, they're Woodstock W1141 3-Inch Aluminum Blastgate. I purchased them on amazon.com. They're the same type used in the powered vent kits, and can be modified to be cable operated. Springs can also be added, which I'm sure would help combat the rattling noise the very loose fitting metal door will make when the engine is running. I was going to put cables and springs on mine, but I think I may just leave them as is and keep the adjustment screws tight so they won't rattle. I'm not putting electric fans on mine, so they'll only supply air when the car is moving. I can adjust them open or closed before I get into the car. Where I live it's hot most of the year, so they'll almost always be open. You have to take them apart and turn the sliding door around, and switch out the screws for longer ones because they have to go through the foot box sheet metal, through the unthreaded side to the threaded. I purchased some stainless ones at the hardware store.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  25. #25
    Member Georg's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot for the info Ray, Georg

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    I had my first start of the engine on March 18. There's a link to the video in my signature. I took a squeeze bottle and filled the float bowl with gas, then it started on the first try. While the battery was hooked up, I checked to see if my fuel pump switch was working and the pump didn't come on. Yesterday I got out my test meter and started tracking down what I was sure was going to be my mistake. I had power from the relay to the switch on the dash, and power back at the relay when I turned the switch on, but no power coming out on the tan wire running to the fuel pump.

    I thought the relay was bad. I had an extra that FFR sent for straight wiring the electric cooling fan with a switch, so I swapped it out. No change, so I started tracing the circuit on the wiring diagram-then I noticed the inertia switch in the ground part of the relay circuit. So, feeling hopeful, I checked the switch to see if it had been tripped. It hadn't, so I pulled the plug from it and started checking it for continuity. That's when the "ah-ha" moment came. There are three pins on the inertia switch, and one of the wires in the plug was in the wrong place. I used a piece of stiff wire to unlock the wire and moved it to the correct location, and now my fuel pump comes on like it should. Someone at Ron Francis wiring gets the blame for this one-not so with a lot of other mistakes.

    I've been working on my throttle linkage. Two 3/8" rod ends are mounted to the firewall and the shaft going into the foot box is in place. My friend at the welding shop and I made an accelerator pedal the other day, and I made a mount for it today. The 5/16" pin is made from a long shank bolt that I cut the thread off of. It goes through a 3/4" thick piece of aluminum, and is held in place, and in adjustment, with a 5/16" set screw. That will allow me to readjust any play caused by wear. It's all aluminum, and very light.

    IMG_2138.JPG

    IMG_2142.JPG

    IMG_2144.JPG

    The air cleaner I ordered came in today. I may have to rework the base, or just make another base, because the height could be about 5/16" lower and still clear the float adjustments on the carb. It may not be necessary, it depends on how much hood clearance I have after the body goes on. I also got the serpentine belt I ordered, and it's in place. I rerouted the belt so I wouldn't have to use the "no air conditioning pulley". Water pump, tensioner and pulley are all new, as is the alternator. I still have to do some trimming on the alternator bracket that attaches to the intake manifold-nothing a cut-off wheel can't handle.

    IMG_2140.JPG
    Last edited by Ray W.; 03-23-2015 at 11:56 PM.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  27. #27
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Ray,

    Great build thread. I noticed you have the clampitool for making the wire clamps. How do you like it?

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  28. #28
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    Thanks, Carl.
    I like the clamp tight tool a lot. It does take a lot more time to install than a worm clamp, but it looks a lot cleaner and I have no doubt that it will seal better. I ordered it to use on this build, and had no experience with using one before. I ordered two sizes of stainless wire, .041 and .032, which should work for any size hose one would use on one of these cars. I used two 90 degree brass pex fittings and some heater hose to complete the heater circuit of the cooling system, because I'm not installing a heater. I used the .041 wire to make the clamps (my first use of the heavier wire) and it looks much cleaner than it would with worm style clamps. Still, it's not as nice as I'd like it to look, but without getting rid of the pipe than goes through the valley to the water pump (which I'm not comfortable doing without the proper tools needed to tap the block for a fitting), I'll have to live with it. I'll post a pic of it tonight, so you can see what I mean. I'm still debating whether or not to use the corrugated metal hoses for the cooling system, and I'm not sure how well the clamp tight tool will work on them. I suspect, because of their design, it wouldn't work very well.



    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    Ray,

    Great build thread. I noticed you have the clampitool for making the wire clamps. How do you like it?

    Carl
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  29. #29
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    Carl, here are two pics of the hoses I was talking about.

    IMG_2147.JPG IMG_2149.JPG
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  30. #30
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    I started installing the fan on my radiator and found that the supplied mounting brackets had what I perceive as a design flaw. The stove type bolts that hold the brackets in place make contact with the radiator cores. I knew that over time they would wear a hole and cause a leak. My solution was to use pieces of adhesive backed felt (made for furniture legs) to cover the bolt heads, secured with two small zip ties. The entire fan is now held away from the radiator the thickness of the pads. The result will be less efficient cooling, but now the fan can't wear holes in the soft aluminum.

    IMG_2155.JPGIMG_2156.JPG

    After reading the instructions for installing the radiator in the FFR manual, I quickly understood why the breeze mount is so popular. In the interest of saving time and money (time=waiting for yet another part to arrive), I made my own version out of plain steel and painted it.

    IMG_2158.JPG

    I didn't like the way the radiator shrouding aluminum was wider on the passenger side than the driver's side, so I decided to reshape things a bit. I ended up trimming both sides to match everything up. I also put felt pads on the back side of the aluminum pieces, so they don't touch the radiator and cause wear.

    IMG_2157.JPG

    The lower part was also trimmed up a little and is now pre-bored for installing the rivets later.

    IMG_2159.JPG

    Because I've already spent more money than I thought I would to reach this point in the build, I decided to use the FFR supplied radiator hose. I thought the money that would have been spent on rubber hoses was better put to use by ordering Alex's wheel liners. After filling the radiator, I rigged up a small bottle to gravity feed the carb with gas, and ran the engine about twenty minutes to cycle the thermostat a few times and burp the system. Twenty minutes at idle, in a steel building with open headers=lots of loud. I put on the hearing protectors I usually use when running my table saw. Here are a couple pics of the upper hose. The two pieces of bailing wire you see in the pics are holding the engine balanced on the motor mounts, because the transmission is not in the car.

    IMG_2169.JPGIMG_2170.JPG

    I've fabricated the pieces for a transmission cooler bracket, to be mounted low behind the radiator and take advantage of the air that will come through the opening that usually houses an oil cooler, and also from the cooling fan when it's on. I have to take the pieces to the welding shop and get them burned together before I can bolt it to the frame. Today I worked on fitting the roll bar. That required a lot of work with a drill and a little grinding stone. I also had to trim about 5/16" off of one side of the hoop because it was longer than the other. I started drilling holes for the bolts and finished one before calling it a day. That steel is HARD to drill through!

    IMG_2171.JPGIMG_2172.JPG
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  31. #31
    Senior Member R Thomas's Avatar
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    Very NICE build and thanks for taking the time to show us all the work. you must be quite energetic to have gotten this far this quickly.
    Daily Driver 2011 Ford Mustang Convertible
    Donor 1997 Mustang Coupe
    Someday a Type65 Street Coupe

  32. #32
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    Thanks, R, will send you a PM after posting this. I have no idea how many hours of work I've put into the car to get it to this point, but I can safely say it was a lot. Honestly, it doesn't feel like I've moved that fast. If it weren't for the problem of getting the wrong or poor quality parts that had to be returned, I would probably be fitting the body by now.

    I'm starting to get worried about the only part that FFR still has back ordered for my kit-the lemans gas cap. I'm afraid it may not arrive before I'll need it, and if that's the case, it's really going to suck. I can just see the officer's face when he comes out of the DMV to inspect the serial numbers on the engine and notices that empty hole in the rear fender… FFR is promising that I'll be one of the first to get one when they come in (They say they had to send a whole shipment back to the manufacturer because of polishing defects).

    Thought I'd add a few pics of the transmission cooler mount, since I'm posting to the build thread:

    IMG_2173.JPGIMG_2174.JPGIMG_2175.JPGIMG_2176.JPGIMG_2177.JPG



    Quote Originally Posted by R Thomas View Post
    Very NICE build and thanks for taking the time to show us all the work. you must be quite energetic to have gotten this far this quickly.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  33. #33
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    Well, an annoying sinus infection (brought on by all the pollen) kept me from getting much done on the car for a couple days. Here are a few pics of what I did get accomplished.

    I needed a piece of steel to make a shifter mount out of, so, with a cardboard pattern in hand I paid my friend at the welding shop a visit. He had a couple scraps of 1/8" thick strips laying around, so he tacked two of them together and made one piece that was wide enough to do the job. I brought it home and smoothed the welds where necessary with a flap wheel, and used my angle grinder and cut off wheels to cut this out.

    IMG_2198.JPG

    Before I hit it with the coat of rustolem hammered, I clamped the piece in place and drilled the mounting holes. I used a small sleeve around a 1/4" bolt and a large C-clamp to create counter-sinked holes in the cross braces.

    IMG_2197.JPG

    Here's the piece bolted in with countersunk head 1/4" bolts.

    IMG_2199.JPG

    A couple months ago I ordered a reproduction 67-68 Mustang automatic trans shifter and bezel. For some reason, they do not reproduce the plain shifter, only one meant to be used in a console. Making it work in a non-console car is a real pain, because you have to cut two tabs off, and you have to properly align and attach a steel plate for the bezel to attach to. In my application, I was able to get around that. I'll attach the bezel to the aluminum tunnel cover. I had to trim the flanges of the shifter bucket in order to make it fit, and drilled a new hole to replace the one I cut off.

    IMG_2203.JPG

    Here it is bolted to the mounting plate.

    IMG_2206.JPG

    I plan to use weather striping to seal the shifter bucket off so it doesn't fill up with road debris. I also drilled a small hole in the bottom, so any water that got in during an unfortunate rain storm could drain out. Here is the final mock up. I'm not going to secure the tunnel cover until I'm finished with the shift linkage.

    IMG_2207.JPG

    Yes, the yellow stuff you see on that Raptor bed liner, and on everything else, is pollen-and I've been keeping the garage door on my shop closed… Here is the reproduction 67-68 Mustang shift linkage rod.

    IMG_2210.JPG

    Here's how much had to be cut out of it.

    IMG_2211.JPG

    I'm going to secure the rod in the aligned position on a piece of wood, so it can be tacked on three sides before removing from the piece of wood and finish the welding. My trip to the welding shop will have to wait until I cut up the pieces of stainless I ordered. The next project on my list is the exhaust. I've decided to build my own version of baffled boom tubes, since I can't seem to find any mufflers thinner than 2". That should be fun….
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  34. #34
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    I'm really enjoying watching your progress Ray! Nice work

    Jeff

  35. #35
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    Thanks, Jeff. My list of things to finish is getting a lot shorter. Unfortunately, Denny's Driveshaft said my driveshaft won't be shipped for 3 to 4 weeks, so at this point it looks like I won't have a go-cart drive. I need to install the horns, fab any needed spacers for the windshield frame, pre-drill the rivet holes in the wheel well aluminum pieces, install the welded shift linkage and finish the exhaust, then I'll trim the wheel wells, reinforce with HSRF and do all the cut outs on the body. Unless I have an unforeseen problem, or the driveshaft comes early (fat chance , I may have the car road ready when it arrives. FFR, if you're following this build thread, please send me that Lemans gas cap ASAP. I'll be riding in red gel-coat this summer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    I'm really enjoying watching your progress Ray! Nice work

    Jeff
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  36. #36
    Senior Member R Thomas's Avatar
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    I had a chance to visit Ray yesterday and get a first hand look at his Mk4 project. I really enjoyed going over the modifications he chose to make. We threw a lot of ideas around and decided that the more experienced (older) you are the more likely you are to accept variations. As an example the engine choice, the 4.6 2 valve is a bit of an ugly duckling, but after cleaning it up painting it and swapping the stock intake for an Edelbrock with 4bbl it looks like a totally different engine. Choosing the used donor probably saved anywhere from 4 to 10 thousand and the trans is also about half the price of new Ford Racing T-5. Ray commented that his choice of an automatic appeared to be shunned, however a rather famous original Cobra that sold for 5 million at auction and was none other than Carroll Shellby's personal Cobra is an automatic. About 20 of the original 550+ were done that way. Saw a few pre-installed pictures of his under car exhaust, can't wait to see how that works out and sounds. If he had the driveshaft and gas cap on hand I'm sure he would be go karting already. As it is he will likely have the body completely ready as those parts come in. Had a great day there would suggest if you live near another builder and they are up for it definitely drop by. Tons learned and urge to get going on my own. As I left I joked with Ray I no longer have any doubts about building, I can simply order it and have it delivered to his driveway.
    Daily Driver 2011 Ford Mustang Convertible
    Donor 1997 Mustang Coupe
    Someday a Type65 Street Coupe

  37. #37
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    Sorry, R, but unfortunately I only have room for one car in the workshop. I enjoyed your visit, and hope you were able to get a more clear idea of what it takes to build one of these cars. As for any shunning because of the automatic transmission, I understand that most would never do that to a *obra. If not for the past injuries to my leg and the early onset arthritis that I'm dealing with, I wouldn't even consider an automatic. The decision to go auto is because I'm thinking long-term. I don't ever intend to sell the car I've wanted since I was 13 years old, and I know the day that a straight drive will become painful for me probably isn't that far away. ( but I hope it is…)

    I haven't heard from my friend at the welding shop this morning, so I don't know if he got the stainless boom tubes all welded up. Hopefully he'll call later today, so I can go pick them up and start mocking up their attachment to the J-pipes.
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  38. #38
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    Finished my light bar..

    I knew I wanted to put LED driving lights in the leading edge of a splitter, and thought the easiest way to make a splitter was to take a piece of tubing and weld a piece of sheet metal to the top edge, then smooth out the weld. After fitting the lights into a piece of stainless tubing with brackets welded to the ends, I think I like the way it looks as just a light bar.

    IMG_2232.JPGIMG_2234.JPGIMG_2235.JPG
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  39. #39
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    That shifter and light bar are really, really innovative! Great job Ray! You're doing a fantastic job buddy!


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  40. #40
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    Thanks, David. After getting the shift linkage on the shifter, I had to clearance the bezel a little so I could get all the way down into 1st gear. The shaft aligns with the PRND letters very well, but has to go a little past 2 and 1 when in those gears. That's a little confusing, because in a console, the bezel would be even further away from the pivot point of the shifter handle, and therefore a wider radius… Must be because it's a Dynacorn reproduction, and not an original Ford part. Glad you like the light bar. I'm really happy with the way it came out. I looked at a lot of pics of finished MK 4s (including pics of my car before I took the body off), and they all looked like the horizontal center of the grill opening was just below the top quick-jack or bumper mount, so the light bar should be centered.

    My welder is scheduled to arrive Wednesday. (A Lincoln Electric 180 MIG ) I'll have to rent a tank with a stainless gas mix on Thursday, and hope to be welding on my under car exhaust that evening. I sent Mike Forte an e-mail on Sat night, asking if he would send me a new gasket and gear oil for the leaking rear I purchased from him. I think that would be fair, since I have to do the labor to change it. Right now I'm about to go stir crazy, because I want to finish the exhaust before dragging the body out of storage and working on it in the yard… I don't have room in my shop for both the car and the body while separated.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    That shifter and light bar are really, really innovative! Great job Ray! You're doing a fantastic job buddy!

    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

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