Ride quality

[aarvig]

Next newbie question from me is...how does the mk4 ride? I am sure it is not a Lincoln Town Car but are these things pretty stiff? I am going to use mine only on the street and I am wondering if the suspension can be tuned to ride nicely on the street without giving me fits when the gas is stepped on. Would you recommend IRS or is 3 link the way to go? I am planning to drive this a lot but I don't want it to beat me to death.

[Bren]

I don't have direct experience with the different suspensions, but from what I understand, the IRS has the best ride quality, everything else being equal. With that being said, any set up can be modified/customized with different parts (shocks, coil overs, etc.). I would give Gordon Levy or Mike Forte a call. Either of them can help you get set up just how you want it.

[edwardb]

Haven't had a chance to ride in any? Too bad. No, doesn't ride like a Lincoln Town Car. That's a good thing. When I first started driving my Mk3 several years ago, I was pleasantly surprised how well it rode. Stiff, yes. That's how a race car is supposed to be. But it's not harsh. Very controlled. The car has an overall extremely solid feel due to the very stiff chassis, and sticks to the road like glue. An absolute blast to drive. Which suspension rides best is debated to death. The IRS is the most comfortable ride. But the 3-link is actually quite good as well. Personally, if you're building a street car, I wouldn't overthink this. Whichever suspension you choose, the FFR standard setup with their suggested springs and the Koni coilovers works very well, and is an excellent place to start. You may find you want to make some changes down the road, but you'll be surprised how good it is to start. Having said that, you will find that you avoid the most bumpy roads...

[Mike N]

What are the roads like where you live? On decent surfaces the ride can be firm but not harsh. On rough, rutted or pot holed surfaces you are going to feel it. 15" rims so the tires have a larger sidewall and seats with a webbed bottom will help a bunch to provide a compliant ride on rougher surfaces. I have low profile tires, stiffer springs and shocks and Kirkey seats with barely an inch of padding in the bottom and I don't think the ride is rough at all.

[Tom Veale]

A combination of shocks, springs and torsion bars will give you the ride you want without too much compromise on handling. This is true of IRS or solid axle cars. The weight of the car is similar to a MX5 Miata, so in theory you should be able to approach its ride and handling quite closely. Multi stage adjustable shocks like QA1s with softer spring rates and adding anti sway torsion bars give you great ride and enough adjustability to go from street car to reasonable auto X performance.

[Avalanche325]

According to FFR, IRS is the comfort suspension. If comfort is the concern, that would be the best.

I have a 3-link and find that the ride is surprisingly good. That is the performance suspension. It is firm, but not overly harsh. If you are used to performance cars, you won't be surprised. You will find that the sun, wind, and noise will beat you up much more than the suspension.

Add your location. You might get to have a ride in one of each.

[skullandbones]

If you haven't seen the video that FFR publishes, you should. That way you can get it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. They refer to the IRS as the "high end" in the MKIII version of the video. I checked it out just for kicks last night. I hadn't seen it in a long time. If you are building, it's a great motivational tool, too! I like to refer to the company voice to verify such info. Opinions will vary according to biases and experiences. I value the opinions of these guys; don't get me wrong. It's just that sometimes the fairly straight forward things get muddled and it never hurts to check back at the standard to get back on track. Personally, I like the stiff ride. My MKIII has about an inch of travel most of the time. That's stiff but surprisingly not harsh with a 3 link. If you want the most comfort with reasonable performance then the IRS is the best. If you want uncompromised performance go with a 3 link or 5 link with a live axle. Some have referred to softer springs and other accessories to change the ride characteristics. This will cause you to invest some time and money but in my opinion is a fine tuning process that may or may not work depending on your resolve. I wish there was statistics available to let you know what percentage of builder/owners of FFRs actually do things to significantly change the suspension after building or buying. It's much easier not to fool with it at all. So it's comfort in this order: IRS, 3 link, 4 link. Good luck and enjoy the journey, WEK.

[aarvig]

I tried to edit my profile and for some reason I keep getting a page that says I don't have access to those privelages. Strange. Anyway, I am from Hugo, MN.

[Dan Babb]

Shocks make a big difference. I have a typical 4 link with coil-overs on the rear. I upgraded a while ago to the Breeze single adjustable shocks and have them on a softer setting. Really changed the ride a lot.

With that said, I do feel most bumps on the road. Highways with the square concrete pad construction are the worst. You feel those bumps and depending on your speed, you can get that rhythmic up & down thing going on. But it's not a bone jarring bumpiness....just not as smooth as your typical sedan. Even my wife's 911 has a nicer feel to it. I would say that both of our cars are about the same 'stiffness' although hers takes bumps better.

But...your car when done won't be anywhere near the cost of a 911...and the FFR is more fun to drive.

If ride quality is more important to you, at least get the 3 link and probably move up to IRS (as said by others).

[superjoe]

If you haven't seen the video that FFR publishes, you should. That way you can get it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. They refer to the IRS as the "high end" in the MKIII version of the video. I checked it out just for kicks last night. I hadn't seen it in a long time. If you are building, it's a great motivational tool, too! I like to refer to the company voice to verify such info. Opinions will vary according to biases and experiences. I value the opinions of these guys; don't get me wrong. I wish there was statistics available to let you know what percentage of builder/owners of FFRs actually do things to significantly change the suspension after building or buying. It's much easier not to fool with it at all. So it's comfort in this order: IRS, 3 link, 4 link. Good luck and enjoy the journey, WEK.

I saw the 3 link is a standard setup under "rear suspensions or optional upgrades" for FFR order on their website with no additional charge, is this is the 3-link your guys talk about?

[aarvig]

Yep it is...

[David Hodgkins]

aarvig, after 20 posts you get access to your profile.

I have IRS and LOVE it. Very well mannered. Torsen rear so that tire "slippage" is spread across both axles, nice eibach springs, double-adjustable (DA) Konis. The car used to be a little tail happy but a sway bar on the front fixed that up.

[Big Blocker]

Been living with the original 3-link rear end now for 12+ years. I love it. I did, however, do some "creature comfort" mods to the car over the years. Most notable change for the seat of my pants, MKIV seats - way more comfortable then my original MKII fiberglass seats could ever be. Changing to a softer tire (Nitto 555's) was a good investment for ride quality, my older TA-KDW's were hard as rocks.

Shocks can be softened a bit and lower rated springs will soften the ride too

Lastly, the ride from the factory installed stuff isn't bad at all. I drive my car everywhere and take long drives (200+ miles) all the time - no issues with comfort.

HTH

Doc

[MPTech]

I've ridden in 3-link cars and installed an IRS in my MK4. The IRS is smoother (I don't think it's huge, but it is better).
I really like my IRS and happy with my decision. I really don't think the cost is that significant in the big picture. I bought the pieces I needed from other forum members, and bought all new 3.55 gears, bearings, and clutch packs for the diff rebuild. Very smooth.

[superjoe]

aarvig, after 20 posts you get access to your profile.

I have IRS and LOVE it. Very well mannered. Torsen rear so that tire "slippage" is spread across both axles, nice eibach springs, double-adjustable (DA) Konis. The car used to be a little tail happy but a sway bar on the front fixed that up.

Oops, just realized the 20 posts rule, I'm working towards it.
Doesn't your guys think PB/PS is also a big contribution to ride quality. I'm still not decide yet if they are a must for street ride.

[edwardb]

Don't you guys think PB/PS is also a big contribution to ride quality. I'm still not decided yet if they are a must for street ride.

Ah, the famous PS and PB topic. This is widely debated. You can search and find a number of threads on this topic. Both here and on FFCars.com. Like so many decisions to make with these builds, no absolutes. Only opinions. Here are mine:

Power Steering: Real simple for me. My Mk3 build didn't have PS. It was the only thing about the build I regretted. The Mk4 I just completed had PS in the build plan from the start. Guys will tell you that driving down the street or highway the standard steering is fine and the effort is quite low. True enough. But at slow speeds and especially maneuvering around the driveway, parking lot, etc. it's stiff. No two ways about it. So PS makes it more friendly all the time. I've driven my Mk4 just enough to really like this aspect. But the second and maybe even more important part is that with PS you can significantly increase the caster angle making the car more centered and stable. Keep in mind, this is a very short wheelbase car with quick steering. Properly setup and aligned, the manual steering version centers up and holds the road very well. But the extra caster makes it better. For me this contributes to drive quality a lot. Just be sure to consider both aspects. Couple other comments. Often you hear guys saying they'll start manual and add PS later if wanted/needed. Certainly doable, but it's a lot more work. New rack, installation, new front dress on the engine, hoses, new front end alignment, etc. All with the body on. Also, guys talk about PS being overboosted and not having good feel or feedback. There are a couple easy ways this can be controlled/adjusted.

Power Brakes: In the days of donor footboxes this used to be a pretty easy discussion. Adding power (hydroboost or vacuum) was a matter of adding the power unit to the front of the footbox and going from there. But now with the pretty standard Wilwood pedal box, adding either of these options negates the built-in Wilwood double master cylinder and balance capability. Potentially a pretty big deal, especially in these cars where getting the brakes balanced is very important. If going with the Wilwood pedal box, then using Wilwood brakes will give excellent braking. For non-Wilwood brakes (PBR's, Cobra, whatever) they will still work fine but you may need to use some higher end and more aggressive pads. But most guys report this results in very good braking with reasonable effort, especially for street cruising as you mentioned.

[Jazzman]

Gordon Levy, you did a very nice job explaining the IRS vs. 3 Link vs. 4 Link vs. 5 Link question to me. Could you repeat your comments here for aarvig's benefit? Thank you.

[montyals]

Seat sliders help tremendously in softening the ride. Any distance you can put between the floor pan and the seat is good.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Doesn't your guys think PB/PS is also a big contribution to ride quality.

Power steering &/or brakes will have absolutely no effect on ride quality. They can and do have an effect on the driving experience.

Seat sliders help tremendously in softening the ride. Any distance you can put between the floor pan and the seat is good.

Huh? Please explain the science of how raising the seat can possibly change the ride.

Jeff

[russelljones48]

You start by asking how the MarkIV "rides" and then progress to the IRS vs. 3 - link question. But as several responders have said there's a lot more to "ride" than just the rear axle design. Too many aspects to cover here - from seats to suspension bushings - and all on a design that's pretty awesome but NOT modern. So, I think the best solution has been mentioned. You should try and make some local contacts who can give you rides. And then based on what you conclude you should consider what these cars are. They are home-built, extremely high performance vehicles that, generally, make few concessions to many "creature comforts".