Details on New Factory Five 818C Coupe

[wleehendrick]

The hardtop would be much more appealing if it included enough structure to contribute to safety, rather then just an overhead shell. The biggest advantage to a car's roof is the structure it afford, both for safety and rigidity. It doesn't sound like this hardtop will offer this at all.

It's already been mentioned, that with the hard-top you can always weld in a full cage if you want more protection than the S provides. Designing the coupe to go over the current R's bar would probably end up looking dorky.

The way the current hard-top seems to be going, it's a hard-top that's really not a hardtop, more for show than function.

Well, it functions to keep warm air in the cockpit and rain off your head. The goal of the coupe and roll-up windows is to make the 818 all weather.

[Niburu]

Well, it functions to keep warm air in the cockpit and rain off your head. The goal of the coupe and roll-up windows is to make the 818 all weather.

i have a Miata with a hardtop, and that's all it does.
And slightly improve the aero.

[BipDBo]

Vman do you remember creating this hard top possibility back in 2012? (i think that was you)



Not far off man!

Dave insists that the coupe was a full in house design, but it's hard not to see a lot of similarity between what they are building and Vman's photoshop job. Yes, they did design this in house, but I think they took some inspiration from Vman. FFR jumpstarted the 818 with a design contest and set up this forum for a reason. It's clear that FFR reads the forum and listens to what people like. Dave obviously values the input from their customers and fans. The biggest difference I see, is that FFR is putting in a small window in the rear quarter panel, where Vman shows it solid. That window, I think is a big improvement. Other wise, you have a substantial blindspot. FFR is also using the same scoop on the bottom of the b-pillar that Vman shows, which I think, will look pretty cool and may prove very useful.

The big rear window, however, I'm personally not a fan of. Having glass over your engine might look cool at the car show, but I'd rather keep the sun off of my engine, especially since horizontal glass traps so much solar heat. I think a small vertical rear window like on this Corvette would be much better:
corvette-036-2.jpg
Alternately, they could keep the current design, which is more aerodynamic, but for buyers who don't want the horizontal glass, add one more option. It could be shipped with the rear glass or the window behind the seats. Instead, it could be shipped with a solid fire wall panel to go behind the seats. To replace the glass, it could have a lighter-weight, fiberglass panel, either solid or possibly with vents, like this:
Venom GT roof.JPG
This would allow the roof scoop duct to go straight down rather than snake to the side. IMO, rearview mirrors are overrated. With such a sloping roof line, you can angle your side mirrors to see who's behind you.

[BipDBo]

Well, it functions to keep warm air in the cockpit and rain off your head. The goal of the coupe and roll-up windows is to make the 818 all weather.

Keeping in the warm air and the rain off your head could be accomplished with the roadster. It already comes with a good soft top option. Roll up windows are the biggest improvement. But I doubt they need the hard top to make those windows work. Perhaps I'm wrong and the water proofing challenges of making a soft-top with roll up windows are too great, but I'd bet FFR could figure it out.

[AZPete]

BipDBo, since you are searching for negatives with the coupe top I thought I'd help you by suggesting a slow-dimming dome light, digital compass, sunglass holder, clothes hook, grab handle, reading light, vanity mirror (lighted) and garage opener transmitter. There most be more others can add.

[D2W]

Dave insists that the coupe was a full in house design, but it's hard not to see a lot of similarity between what they are building and Vman's photoshop job. Yes, they did design this in house, but I think they took some inspiration from Vman. FFR jumpstarted the 818 with a design contest and set up this forum for a reason. It's clear that FFR reads the forum and listens to what people like. Dave obviously values the input from their customers and fans. The biggest difference I see, is that FFR is putting in a small window in the rear quarter panel, where Vman shows it solid. That window, I think is a big improvement. Other wise, you have a substantial blindspot. FFR is also using the same scoop on the bottom of the b-pillar that Vman shows, which I think, will look pretty cool and may prove very useful.

The big rear window, however, I'm personally not a fan of. Having glass over your engine might look cool at the car show, but I'd rather keep the sun off of my engine, especially since horizontal glass traps so much solar heat. I think a small vertical rear window like on this Corvette would be much better:
corvette-036-2.jpg
Alternately, they could keep the current design, which is more aerodynamic, but for buyers who don't want the horizontal glass, add one more option. It could be shipped with the rear glass or the window behind the seats. Instead, it could be shipped with a solid fire wall panel to go behind the seats. To replace the glass, it could have a lighter-weight, fiberglass panel, either solid or possibly with vents, like this:
Venom GT roof.JPG
This would allow the roof scoop duct to go straight down rather than snake to the side. IMO, rearview mirrors are overrated. With such a sloping roof line, you can angle your side mirrors to see who's behind you.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone saying the roof scoop is going to be ducted to the intercooler only that it would dump into the engine bay. As far as the rear window there is already going to be a vertical one to separate the cabin from the engine compartment the rear one could be replaced by screens or louvers or whatever you can come up with.

[Kalstar]

This forum is so PC, which I guess is why it is so helpful. That said (I hear the Ban hammer coming to beat me about the head and shoulders) but.... why are you so intent on bashing everything. Your posts all the way back to 2011 have been so harsh. You have been critical from day one and insulting at times. There is a big difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing. This forum has always been open to ideas and sharing of information. Other then a handful of times, you seem hell bent on convincing the crowd that the 818 is a badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques. If you do not like it or have no interest in it, then move on. If you like what you see and want to make "builder changes" I say go for it (and I will be happy to lend advise). But this constant bashing is getting real old real quick. Many people have either already laid down there money, are in the mist of a build or are planning/dreaming of their adventure. Have some respect. In my book, constructive criticism...IE... ideas to improve are welcomed, crapping on it at every chance is not. Change your approach or get lost. If I am banned for speaking my truth then hopefully it is a short suspension.

[Kurk818]

This forum is so PC, which I guess is why it is so helpful. That said (I hear the Ban hammer coming to beat me about the head and shoulders) but.... why are you so intent on bashing everything. Your posts all the way back to 2011 have been so harsh. You have been critical from day one and insulting at times. There is a big difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing. This forum has always been open to ideas and sharing of information. Other then a handful of times, you seem hell bent on convincing the crowd that the 818 is a badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques. If you do not like it or have no interest in it, then move on. If you like what you see and want to make "builder changes" I say go for it (and I will be happy to lend advise). But this constant bashing is getting real old real quick. Many people have either already laid down there money, are in the mist of a build or are planning/dreaming of their adventure. Have some respect. In my book, constructive criticism...IE... ideas to improve are welcomed, crapping on it at every chance is not. Change your approach or get lost. If I am banned for speaking my truth then hopefully it is a short suspension.

I approve this message.

[bigAl]

"This forum is so PC, which I guess is why it is so helpful. That said (I hear the Ban hammer coming to beat me about the head and shoulders) but.... why are you so intent on bashing everything. Your posts all the way back to 2011 have been so harsh. You have been critical from day one and insulting at times. There is a big difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing. This forum has always been open to ideas and sharing of information. Other then a handful of times, you seem hell bent on convincing the crowd that the 818 is a badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques. If you do not like it or have no interest in it, then move on. If you like what you see and want to make "builder changes" I say go for it (and I will be happy to lend advise). But this constant bashing is getting real old real quick. Many people have either already laid down there money, are in the mist of a build or are planning/dreaming of their adventure. Have some respect. In my book, constructive criticism...IE... ideas to improve are welcomed, crapping on it at every chance is not. Change your approach or get lost. If I am banned for speaking my truth then hopefully it is a short suspension."

Personally I am confused by this post. After looking through the thread, I assume that Kalstar is offended by BipDBo's rather mild comments but maybe he is talking about someone else.
??

[BipDBo]

This forum is so PC, which I guess is why it is so helpful. That said (I hear the Ban hammer coming to beat me about the head and shoulders) but.... why are you so intent on bashing everything. Your posts all the way back to 2011 have been so harsh. You have been critical from day one and insulting at times. There is a big difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing. This forum has always been open to ideas and sharing of information. Other then a handful of times, you seem hell bent on convincing the crowd that the 818 is a badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques. If you do not like it or have no interest in it, then move on. If you like what you see and want to make "builder changes" I say go for it (and I will be happy to lend advise). But this constant bashing is getting real old real quick. Many people have either already laid down there money, are in the mist of a build or are planning/dreaming of their adventure. Have some respect. In my book, constructive criticism...IE... ideas to improve are welcomed, crapping on it at every chance is not. Change your approach or get lost. If I am banned for speaking my truth then hopefully it is a short suspension.

I don't think you should get banned for speaking your mind. I'm a big boy. I can take it.
I do have my faults. I'm a bit opinionated and persistent, but in general, I disagree with your assessment of my history here. I've been around since the design contest. If not for four young kids running around, I'd likely be an active builder. Someday. I have always been generally positive and excited about the 818 project, but as an engineer, it's in my nature to look for ways to make something better. So my posts have focused on what I see are insufficiencies of the current design, but don't take that to mean that I am bashing it. To the contrary, I have often been the defender. When Dave announced that the 818 was going to be the in-house design, many people had meltdown tantrums. I pointed out that the in house design took heavy cues from the third place entry, arguably the most popular one. Most of the differences were functional, to make it buildable. They then made drastic changes based on forum input. They really listened to people in their design, something no other company does, and many people were livid. Since then, there seems to have been a big cultural shift here. Those who have remained here, have seemed to me, to be too quick to circle the wagon at any suggestion that the 818 isn't perfect the way it is. I'm not trying to criticize, just offer some alternate ideas. But at sometimes, I'll have been too harsh, I admit.
When I build my own one day, I'll be able to do many things my own way, but some things, like adding significant roof structure may be too difficult.
I would never convey any of the following "badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques", yet i would not say that the 818 has no room for improvement. The "borrowed design cues' comment is especially confusing because my comments about the similarity to Vman7's design was meant as a compliment. Vman7 had some very popular renderings. I put it to FFR's credit that they seam to continue to be open to forum input, yet you seem to think I'm bashing them over it.

[BipDBo]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone saying the roof scoop is going to be ducted to the intercooler only that it would dump into the engine bay. As far as the rear window there is already going to be a vertical one to separate the cabin from the engine compartment the rear one could be replaced by screens or louvers or whatever you can come up with.

Dave stated on page 1 of this thread that the hood scoop was being designed for the intercooler. I actually like the scoop. I think it looks reall cool for one. It looks like a good duct for engine bay ventilation or combustion air. Another cool application for this scoop would be forced cabin air for a non-air conditioned build, just as they do on rally cars. I just don't think that the intercooler is wise application of it. That's OK because this is something that any builder can modify pretty easily. 10 different builders might find 10 different ways to duct the engine bay.
It seems that people are getting pretty weary about my rants anyway.
The rear window modification, is what I'm suggesting FFr could make as an option, just as you started. any people do like the glass. it does look cool to see your engine.

[R.Spec]

Can't get a good gloss effect. Any ideas vman or others?

[mjazzka]

I agree with bigAl, BipDBo's posts seem rather mild. I think he genuinely just wants to have some conversations about ideas for the 818, it just comes across as a bashing it a little bit. He's not being malicious. Then again, I haven't been around that long, so this is just my opinion on these past few posts.

Now for the 818C. One of the main reasons I ordered a 65 Coupe and not an 818 was because of the lack of a hard top option and roll up windows. I didn't take it to be an oversight by FFR, I just knew the 818 was still in development. But DANG, what a good job they did!!! Depending on how the Coupe goes, the 818C will be what I do next. FFR continues to impress me with their ability to satisfy their customers and take feedback. It's impossible to please everyone, but it seems like they gave it an honest effort! Thank you to all of the folks at FFR for all the work they put into this, you all did a GREAT job.

Now then, the real question is how many holes will need to be drilled everywhere to keep it at 818 kg

[Vman7]

Can't get a good gloss effect. Any ideas vman or others?

I love the color of that 818. It looks to be a very dark green.

I would say start off by changing the top color to as close as you can get to what you see in the car's color. Then you will have to do some shading with some lighter green, off grey, and off white. See how there is a hard line between the 2 shades of green on the front driver side fender. Try to do something like that on the A pillar, follow it through on the top and down the back..

The trick is to understand the lighting and where the shine should be.

Hope that helps some

David

[R.Spec]

I love the color of that 818. It looks to be a very dark green.

I would say start off by changing the top color to as close as you can get to what you see in the car's color. Then you will have to do some shading with some lighter green, off grey, and off white. See how there is a hard line between the 2 shades of green on the front driver side fender. Try to do something like that on the A pillar, follow it through on the top and down the back..

The trick is to understand the lighting and where the shine should be.

Hope that helps some

David

Maybe a touch better. This is hard!

[Ellimist]

Now then, the real question is how many holes will need to be drilled everywhere to keep it at 818 kg

LOL, good thing they started with the roadster design - even then it was a bit heavier than 818. Anyways, I second (and third and four, etc.) the kudos that have been stated on this effort - very impressive stuff!

[Kalstar]

I don't think you should get banned for speaking your mind. I'm a big boy. I can take it.
I do have my faults. I'm a bit opinionated and persistent, but in general, I disagree with your assessment of my history here. I've been around since the design contest. If not for four young kids running around, I'd likely be an active builder. Someday. I have always been generally positive and excited about the 818 project, but as an engineer, it's in my nature to look for ways to make something better. So my posts have focused on what I see are insufficiencies of the current design, but don't take that to mean that I am bashing it. To the contrary, I have often been the defender. When Dave announced that the 818 was going to be the in-house design, many people had meltdown tantrums. I pointed out that the in house design took heavy cues from the third place entry, arguably the most popular one. Most of the differences were functional, to make it buildable. They then made drastic changes based on forum input. They really listened to people in their design, something no other company does, and many people were livid. Since then, there seems to have been a big cultural shift here. Those who have remained here, have seemed to me, to be too quick to circle the wagon at any suggestion that the 818 isn't perfect the way it is. I'm not trying to criticize, just offer some alternate ideas. But at sometimes, I'll have been too harsh, I admit.
When I build my own one day, I'll be able to do many things my own way, but some things, like adding significant roof structure may be too difficult.
I would never convey any of the following "badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques", yet i would not say that the 818 has no room for improvement. The "borrowed design cues' comment is especially confusing because my comments about the similarity to Vman7's design was meant as a compliment. Vman7 had some very popular renderings. I put it to FFR's credit that they seam to continue to be open to forum input, yet you seem to think I'm bashing them over it.

This is the last I will speak of this on this thread, no need to muck up an otherwise happy thread. Like myself, you were on the 818 forums early in the game. You were over critical on every aspect of the project, I could spend the time going back, cutting and pasting your coments into this post but my time is worth more then that. I was irritated with you some time ago but I held my opinions. That was until last night. You do not post for some time then you come on a thread many have been watching closely to load on what you see as negatives. Not one but 3 long "you should have done it this way" posts. I am glad to hear that hopefully some day you will build one. Is the 818 perfect...no. Is it incredible for the performance/price ratio...absolutely. I am fortunate to have driven an 818 for a few 1000 miles so I have a perspective others do not. I have also seen the hardtop in the flesh and have information others do not. I have seen the planning and man hours put into this design and subsequent hardtop, I have seen the design struggles to (build off an idea) while keeping intact the design principle of an affordable rocketship. So yes I have a different perspective on things. Living as close as I do to the factory I see much that others have not and I take it nearly personal when someone is or has been insulting toward a symbol of my appreciation. I would suggest you look back at your posts and look at them in a light of....if I was on the other end would these coments be helpful or hurtful. Like I said, I will not post on this subject again, but so help me if you say it was Factory Five that deflated the Patriots footballs, I will reach through this computer.

[Niburu]

so help me if you say it was Factory Five that deflated the Patriots footballs, I will reach through this computer.

We all know Hillary is responsible for any ball deflation going on in this country.

[Santiago]

The way the current hard-top seems to be going, it's a hard-top that's really not a hardtop, more for show than function. This design, using the existing 818S roadster chassis, might be better released with separate panels in front and behind the roll bar. The roof panel, between the windshield and roll bar could be made to be easily removed, essentially making a targa. This would give the styling of the hardtop, the ability to use real roll-up windows, better rain protection, and sunshine when you want it.

I think there are a few things being taken for granted here that make this approach unfeasible at the moment. First, and I suspect most importantly, the R and S don't have the same height in their main hoops. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is, but from a visual look it's quite substantial. That makes a hardtop based off of the current R model difficult from a design standpoint. You're simply not going to get the same low sporty look out of the car. IMHO, it'll look like crap as high as the R-bar is now if you tried to simply bring it's line forward into a proposed windshield area. The current hard top is a multi-goal project, not the least of which is that it has to be visually appealing. You're not going to get the styling of this hardtop out of an R-based main hoop.

On that multi-goal point, you say the hardtop isn't functional, but that just speaks to one function (actually, a portion of one function, since a hardtop does offer greater protection from road debris, even in the event of a roll over). Clearly though, the hardtop satisfies many folks wish for expanding the car's climate capabilities. We're told that the soft-top is very weather-proof, but I'm sure some are not comfortable with this solution. Then there's longevity. How much longer is a cloth top going to retain its good looks under regular use in bad weather? Some folks are pretty serious about this car as a suitable daily driver. Then there's theft prevention; even a fiberglass hardtop is more secure than a cloth top.

Then there's the little creature comforts...you know, like side windows that go up and down w/o having to be zipped in.

The bottom line is that this top might not deliver on one design point, but it does deliver on the majority of other key goals. That's a win.

Best,
-j

[BipDBo]

This is the last I will speak of this on this thread, no need to muck up an otherwise happy thread. Like myself, you were on the 818 forums early in the game. You were over critical on every aspect of the project, I could spend the time going back, cutting and pasting your coments into this post but my time is worth more then that. I was irritated with you some time ago but I held my opinions. That was until last night. You do not post for some time then you come on a thread many have been watching closely to load on what you see as negatives. Not one but 3 long "you should have done it this way" posts. I am glad to hear that hopefully some day you will build one. Is the 818 perfect...no. Is it incredible for the performance/price ratio...absolutely. I am fortunate to have driven an 818 for a few 1000 miles so I have a perspective others do not. I have also seen the hardtop in the flesh and have information others do not. I have seen the planning and man hours put into this design and subsequent hardtop, I have seen the design struggles to (build off an idea) while keeping intact the design principle of an affordable rocketship. So yes I have a different perspective on things. Living as close as I do to the factory I see much that others have not and I take it nearly personal when someone is or has been insulting toward a symbol of my appreciation. I would suggest you look back at your posts and look at them in a light of....if I was on the other end would these coments be helpful or hurtful. Like I said, I will not post on this subject again, but so help me if you say it was Factory Five that deflated the Patriots footballs, I will reach through this computer.

I'm very sorry I've ticked you off, now and in the past. I'll try to be less of a jerk in the future.
Most people bite their lip and don't confront these kind of issues. If I'm a jerk here, I'm probably doing it in other aspects of my life as well. So, thank you for speaking up.
If it was you I got in an argument with about whether the 818 should have single or dual exhaust, I'm especially sorry. I was really abrasive that day.

I have not been around in a while because development from factory 5 has been quiet. I have though, followed some of the build threads and enjoyed seeing some of the cool work people are doing. 33's EV build was particularly cool.

I'll also try to keep in mind that this is a low volume car offered at a very affordable price. In retrospect, I see that saying that the chassis should be redesigned for the coupe was unrealistic. It will undoubtedly have some steel running under the roof from the roll bar to the windshield, which will give some protection and structure. There is precedent, afterall. Many cars such as the new Corvette are now being built on a chassis designed first as a roadster and then they just bolt on a roof for the coupe model. And as Santiago states, you could use a roadster with a soft-top as a daily driver, but a coupe with roll up windows is going to be a bit more comfortable.

So in summary, Factory 5 has always had my support. I think their products are some of the coolest stuff in the auto world. But I have been somewhat critical, opinionated and abrasive many times. For that, I'm sorry. I'll try to do better, both here and elsewhere.

[Kalstar]

I'm very sorry I've ticked you off, now and in the past. I'll try to be less of a jerk in the future.
Most people bite their lip and don't confront these kind of issues. If I'm a jerk here, I'm probably doing it in other aspects of my life as well. So, thank you for speaking up.
If it was you I got in an argument with about whether the 818 should have single or dual exhaust, I'm especially sorry. I was really abrasive that day.

I have not been around in a while because development from factory 5 has been quiet. I have though, followed some of the build threads and enjoyed seeing some of the cool work people are doing. 33's EV build was particularly cool.

I'll also try to keep in mind that this is a low volume car offered at a very affordable price. In retrospect, I see that saying that the chassis should be redesigned for the coupe was unrealistic. It will undoubtedly have some steel running under the roof from the roll bar to the windshield, which will give some protection and structure. There is precedent, afterall. Many cars such as the new Corvette are now being built on a chassis designed first as a roadster and then they just bolt on a roof for the coupe model. And as Santiago states, you could use a roadster with a soft-top as a daily driver, but a coupe with roll up windows is going to be a bit more comfortable.

So in summary, Factory 5 has always had my support. I think their products are some of the coolest stuff in the auto world. But I have been somewhat critical, opinionated and abrasive many times. For that, I'm sorry. I'll try to do better, both here and elsewhere.

You sir are my buddy again, if you ever get out to Massachussets I will give you a thrill ride in a completed 818.

[GUNS]

Man, so much drama up in here. I feel like I'm watching an episode of The Real Housewives of the 818 Forums.

Anywho, any chance there will be a roll up window option vs power windows?

[BipDBo]

Kalstar,
Thank you. Sounds Awesome.

Guns,
Sometimes guys just need to hug it out.

The 33 coupe has a power window and door handle package for $499. I would suspect that FFR would use the same kit. They might, however use a crank kit because that might be cheaper, easier to install and lighter by a few pounds. But power windows are much more popular.

I'm more curious about windshield wipers. The 33 coupe, I don't think is offered with a wiper kit, but different builders have come up with different ways of doing it. I would think that 95% of 818 builders would want to install wipers, so it would be nice if FFR built it into the package. There might be a lot of 818 builders who pan on daily driving them. It looks easy enough to do.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Man, so much drama up in here. I feel like I'm watching an episode of The Real Housewives of the 818 Forums.

Anywho, any chance there will be a roll up window option vs power windows?

IIRC Dave mentioned tooling for rear and side glass. Reading between the lines I suspect the windows and mechanism might be out of the donor. I haven't seen a wind up Subaru but I'm sure if you go back some years, you could find that mechanism.
Bob

[Kalstar]

The windows are power windows, the motors are not out of the donor. The delay in production is getting the windows to seal property...hence why windows will not work with the soft top (at least not as well). The roof and windshield are one piece and does have structural support (the exsisting roll bar hoop provides the most protection however). The roof scoop creates airflow (like the GTM's roof scoop) which will help in getting air to the intercooler. The opening dumps air very near the intercooler.

Guns if you need a hug....come one over.

Edit...wipers...

FFR does offer a wiper kit. I have it on my new 818. That said with the hard top and placement of the wiper on the windshield frame, one will need 2 kits. The motor and arm as well as electronics will stay in place but the rest will be specific to which windshield you are running. If you plan to use the roof like me (roadster part of the year, coupe the other) then the 2 kits will be needed.

[billjr212]

The windows are power windows, the motors are not out of the donor. The delay in production is getting the windows to seal property...hence why windows will not work with the soft top (at least not as well). The roof and windshield are one piece and does have structural support (the exsisting roll bar hoop provides the most protection however). The roof scoop creates airflow (like the GTM's roof scoop) which will help in getting air to the intercooler. The opening dumps air very near the intercooler.

Guns if you need a hug....come one over.

Edit...wipers...

FFR does offer a wiper kit. I have it on my new 818. That said with the hard top and placement of the wiper on the windshield frame, one will need 2 kits. The motor and arm as well as electronics will stay in place but the rest will be specific to which windshield you are running. If you plan to use the roof like me (roadster part of the year, coupe the other) then the 2 kits will be needed.

I thought Dave indicated the windshield was the exact same? Confused why 2 different wipers would be needed.

[Begin sarcasm] I don't understand what the big deal is with the windows sealing, it only took Chevy 50 years and hundreds of millions of dollars in development costs before they managed to keep Corvette buyers dry [/end sarcasm]

Thanks for the insight!

[AZPete]

I agree with Kalstar and now forgive you BipDBo. This site is so friendly and helpful that critiques are often viewed as trolls just trying to cause trouble, if not worded carefully. Now onward.

My plan is to buy the soft top and then the coupe top when it's available. Here in the AZ desert I need the soft top to easily convert from topless to soft top from October until May, but then put the coupe top on for the hot-hot summer months. That's why I've installed A/C. Now I'm chasing down a few wiring gremlins (ugh) then get plates, then charge A/C, then buy soft top. Then Coupe top.

[metalmaker12]

Days of out lives!!! Lol

Jim, how much snow did you get, and do you think the hardtop could hold it

[GUNS]

Kalstar,
Thank you. Sounds Awesome.

Guns,
Sometimes guys just need to hug it out.

The 33 coupe has a power window and door handle package for $499. I would suspect that FFR would use the same kit. They might, however use a crank kit because that might be cheaper, easier to install and lighter by a few pounds. But power windows are much more popular.

I'm more curious about windshield wipers. The 33 coupe, I don't think is offered with a wiper kit, but different builders have come up with different ways of doing it. I would think that 95% of 818 builders would want to install wipers, so it would be nice if FFR built it into the package. There might be a lot of 818 builders who pan on daily driving them. It looks easy enough to do.

I was just giving you guys a hard time . Overall power windows are more appealing however, I'd be more interested in roll up windows from an ease factor. For us early S guys, it'd be much easier to install roll up windows than try and retrofit power windows, especially if it uses potentially sold donor parts. Either way I'm just happy to see them continue to evolve the 818. I'm sure this addition will bode well for FFR.

[Canadian818]

Wow the drama, hope we didn't scare Dave away. Top looks amazing! Hopefully the wind tunnel testing will also include some R aero with the hardtop. This top is a must have for me, but it can wait until the car is finished and plated. Oh, and maybe not until the price of oil goes up, or your dollar comes down, lol.

[BipDBo]

One thing I liked about the 818S body was that it looks incredibly easy to fabricate a trunk with a small opening, but rather a large volume, right under the lid in the rear above the transaxle. There's a lot of space there to be used. The lid is there on the 818S, so all you need to do is keep the exhaust low and fabricate a pan sheet aluminum or fiberglass.
818 REAR LID CLOSED.jpg818 REAR LID OPEN.jpg
I predict that the more weather worthy coupe will be used more often as a daily driver. A trunk would be nice.
Has anyone yet made such a trunk?
Does this still look like a possible modification for the coupe?

[Mechie3]

FFR is making a trunk.

[flytosail]

Great progress FFR!

[tmoretta]

I have added a "temporary spare" tire mount over the transaxle. The jack fits under the wheel, and the crank and tool bag are under the front hood.

[ffrcobra1654]

I like the "true removable" hardtop part. Any idea on what the added weight will be? And any idea of the $$$. I think this option will convince a lot more people that have ever lived "topless" to pull the trigger on this car. My wife will be SOOOOO HAPPY!!! and that means A LOT

[FFRWRX]

The original design goal of a "paint-free" body was really derided as we came up a bit short on the process (likely the only design goal out of maybe 12 that wasn't executed fully), but the related benefits even without thermoformed machine made panels at this point...

Yes, but this 1-out-of-12 that didn't make it is the one that makes a difference of $5,000+ in the build, a huge amount percentage wise in the build.

[Niburu]

Yes, but this 1-out-of-12 that didn't make it is the one that makes a difference of $5,000+ in the build, a huge amount percentage wise in the build.

Where do you pull a $5000 difference from in build cost?

[FFRWRX]

Where do you pull a $5000 difference from in build cost?

The paint-free panels obviously don't have to be painted, so the cost is $0. The cost to paint the car is at least $5000. Thus the difference. There may be some debate as to what it actually cost for bodywork and paint, but this would be close.

[Niburu]

The paint-free panels obviously don't have to be painted, so the cost is $0. The cost to paint the car is at least $5000. Thus the difference. There may be some debate as to what it actually cost for bodywork and paint, but this would be close.

Not from where I'm standing, I can get the body work painted or wrapped for half that.
If you're talking show quality finish, then the preformed thermoplastic panels would need to be painted too, as the finish on those would never be show quality either.

From FFR's stanpoint the thermoplastics panel probably won't be any cheaper than the fiberglass for the customer, as they would have to factor in the new equipment costs into the price of the thermoplastic panels.

[AZPete]

My white 818 panels are pretty good and after some wet sanding and polishing it looks better than most other white cars on the road. I have used the gel coat repair kit to fill a few corners, dings from shipping and a few "oops". In the future I might make a few changes or repair minor fender-benders, but with thermoplastic I'm guessing changes and repairs would be more difficult, right?

I'll get the coupe top as soon as it's available and I hope it is white fiberglass.