Any Megasquirt II/ Tuner Studio Gurus in SoCal?

[frankeeski]

I have the Stinger MS2 system installed in the car and am having issues with the tuning. Anyone in SoCal running MS2 and using Tuner Studio willing to come over and help with the tuning? I have the base tune loaded and the car will idle. It just doesn't seem to want to rev past 2000 RPM. It's probably something simple I am missing but could use any help I can get.

[David Hodgkins]

Do you mean 2000 RPM?

Bump.

[frankeeski]

Do you mean 2000 RPM?

Bump.

Yup. Ooops!

[Mike N]

Frank.

Check your yahoo e-mail. I hope I figured out your issue.

[frankeeski]

Frank.

Check your yahoo e-mail. I hope I figured out your issue.

Sent you and email back Mike. I had/have already changed the pin outs so that's not the problem. I am going to recheck timing settings in the program and see if that helps at all. At worst, you said you'll be out here in a few weeks so..............

[skullandbones]

Frank,

Is the system you have the from Megasquirt or something else? How hard was it to set up on your car? What made you decide to go to this setup? Inquiring minds need to know! (if you don't mind sharing)

Thanks,

WEK.

[Mike N]

Frank,

Is the system you have the from Megasquirt or something else? How hard was it to set up on your car? What made you decide to go to this setup? Inquiring minds need to know! (if you don't mind sharing)

Thanks,

WEK.

Bill

Frank went with one of these plug n play MS2 set ups on my advice. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/65-fuel...tion-pimp.html Now he wants to tie me to his truck and drag me around the block I feel really bad, I wish I lived closer to help out better but I will make sure to stop by and visit Frank in the next few weeks when I am in his area.

[frankeeski]

Frank,

Is the system you have the from Megasquirt or something else? How hard was it to set up on your car? What made you decide to go to this setup? Inquiring minds need to know! (if you don't mind sharing)

Thanks,

WEK.

I went with the Stinger PiMP system.
http://www.stinger-performance.com/universalparts.html
After going through all of the options it was the logical choice as it is "Plug & Play" for the most part. The system interfaces with the factory harness and allows you to use all of the factory sensors. I looked at two other systems one being a piggyback controller (Anderson Automotive) and the other being a stand alone harness and ECU (Pro-M) but both were more expensive and much more complicated to tune. My biggest problem so far is not being able to setup the system all at once. This has lead to issues, in that, I forget where I left off. This is a bad thing. I believe I am fighting an ignition timing issue right now but need to create a datalog file and send it over to the guys at Stinger to take a look.

Bill

Frank went with one of these plug n play MS2 set ups on my advice. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/65-fuel...tion-pimp.html Now he wants to tie me to his truck and drag me around the block I feel really bad, I wish I lived closer to help out better but I will make sure to stop by and visit Frank in the next few weeks when I am in his area.

I can't kill you yet Mike, I still need your help.

[skullandbones]

I typed in PiMP but it got deleted for some reason. So I guess it didn't make much sense. Will your's be naturally aspirated? What sort of gains do you expect from this new computer system?

Thanks,

WEK.

[frankeeski]

I guess I don't know exactly what you are asking, you typed in PiMP where? I gave you a link directly to the Stinger page with the PiMP ECU info and pricing. My engine has no power adders, so yes naturally aspirated. I don't expect any gains since this management system is being installed with a new engine that has never been dyno'd. Antny has the same short block from the same engine builder, same cam, similar heads but a carb instead of the EFI and he sees somewhere between 425-450 FHP. I expect the same.

Here's a few passes at Barona. Ride along with Antny

[Mike N]

Very nice runs. Can't wait for the weather to break here so I can get back to the track. For that MPH he is at around 400 wheel hp so perhaps even a little more than 450 at the crank. Engine sounds great.

[skullandbones]

In post #6 I had asked if you were getting the PiMP from Megasquirt but PiMP was edited out somehow. That's OK. You answered all my questions and then some! A picture or in this case a video is worth a thousand words for sure. That will be a beast!

You said you started with a baseline tune. It would be interesting to see how your friend's tune runs in your engine setup. The system looks like the way to go from all I've read about it. Just waiting for the funds to do that upgrade on the project (new computer) after the heads and new induction.

Thanks for sharing.

WEK.

[frankeeski]

I figured it was time for an update since I have had some time over the last week to check the timing. I went back in Monday evening March 2nd and rechecked the timing. Now although I had gone in and set the fixed timing to 20* with the engine idling on Sunday, when I checked it Monday night it was now around 13-14* while checking it in the user timing. So I went back in and set the fixed timing again to 20* and moved the distributor to match. Again I went back to user timing and checked but now it was only at 16-17*. I noticed a pattern that I was getting 3-4* of timing movement each time so I one more time set fixed timing to 20* while the engine was running. This time after switching back to the user table the numbers matched. I got 20* at the balancer and the dashboard on the laptop, the engine now revs freely. It still smells a bit rich but I am assuming that once I get some tuning done I can go back in and adjust the AFR at idle and lean it out a bit. I also assume that since the timing was so far off from the onset of installing the PiMP ECU that this was just one of the hurtles (self inflicted) that I had to go through to get to this point. I would recommend to anyone installing this or any other engine management system with a freshly built engine to go through the steps of finding TDC with a piston stop to verify TDC on the balancer/timing mark so they do not have to learn the lesson I did.......The hard way. My situation was a bit rare, in that, I was fighting an injector issue before I even purchased the PiMP ECU. But note, if I had confirmed TDC before the base tune was loaded, this thread on the forum would not exist. I sure hope this can save someone all of this frustration. Thanks to Mike N. for taking my call on a Sunday and talking me off the edge of the cliff. He got me to go back in with a fresh perspective on Monday and methodically work though it.

[David Hodgkins]

Way to go Frank. You're a smart dude, glad you got it licked.

I took a look at Antny's video. Wow man, that's gonna be some motor. I mean a LOT of motor.

[frankeeski]

Another update, I have been sick the past few weeks (flu & sinus, ear and eye infection)and just haven't been up to hanging out in the garage. I'm still on medication but I started feeling better the last few days, so I figured I'd give the Autotune feature in the software a go. The last time I took the car out (with the old ECU) it left me stranded and I had to call reinforcements to get the car back home. So this time I had Julie follow me in the truck. The Autotune works surprisingly well at altering the fuel map as you drive at varying RPM and load. What it doesn't do is change anything regarding the ignition timing. Working off of the base tune Stinger sent me with the ECU, I am seeing ignition "break-up" somewhere between 2000 and 3000 RPM. I don't have enough eyes to watch the road, the tach and the laptop to see what all is going on. The stumble did get better the longer I let the car run and let the Autotune make adjustments to the fuel map but I do think there is some fine tuning that needs to be done on the ignition curve to get rid of the dead spot I am seeing. I'm hopeful I can guilt Mike N. to stop by the next time he is out here for business and have him share some of his experience. Until then I will keep plugging away at it in the hope of solving this issue on my own.

It is a beautiful day here today and it was nice to have the car out on the road again (I think it's been 18 months since I pulled the donor engine out). My hope is to have it running well enough to head down to Huntington Beach at the end of the month. At this point however, I am not going to register for the Cruise-In until the car is running well enough. We'll see. Still, I am pretty impressed with the Stinger system. If I can keep making improvements at a steady pace, I should have the car running well soon.

[skullandbones]

Hi Frank,

Did you install your wide band O2 permanently or just for testing (wasn't sure if the PiMP needed constant input)? Where did you put it? I will probably put mine in one side at the collector where the old O2 sensors are now since the "narrow band" sensors will not be used by the new ECU. I guess you could put it in the right side and then the left to see if there was a variance in the data from the AF gauge.

Thanks,

WEK.

[frankeeski]

When I first installed the wideband I just put it in the primary tube of the header, it only sampled one cylinder. After talking with Shannon at Stinger, I was instructed to install a bung in each of the two collectors. His reasoning was to use whichever side was running lean and leave it mounted in that side. I explained to him how difficult this would be because of the foot boxes, mid-engine set up of the Cobra and the fact that the car is so low to the ground. We agreed that just using the passenger side should be OK. I have the wide band wired in to a key switched circuit, the same one that runs the ECU so it is always on (heated) when the car is running. The ECU only requires that it be powered when sampling (Autotuning) or when monitoring (when attached to the laptop). I am running the Innovate LC-2 and no gauge. Honestly, I wouldn't have an issue running the gauge but I couldn't find one that resembles the Stewart Warner Vintage gauges. As far as the narrow band sensor go, I just left them in place in each of the two primary tube they are mounted in. I guess I could install a couple of bung plugs but then I would probably be inclined to diet the O2 wiring back to the closest connector like I did for the mass air sensor.

[alpine227]

Another update, I have been sick the past few weeks (flu & sinus, ear and eye infection)and just haven't been up to hanging out in the garage. I'm still on medication but I started feeling better the last few days, so I figured I'd give the Autotune feature in the software a go. The last time I took the car out (with the old ECU) it left me stranded and I had to call reinforcements to get the car back home. So this time I had Julie follow me in the truck. The Autotune works surprisingly well at altering the fuel map as you drive at varying RPM and load. What it doesn't do is change anything regarding the ignition timing. Working off of the base tune Stinger sent me with the ECU, I am seeing ignition "break-up" somewhere between 2000 and 3000 RPM. I don't have enough eyes to watch the road, the tach and the laptop to see what all is going on. The stumble did get better the longer I let the car run and let the Autotune make adjustments to the fuel map but I do think there is some fine tuning that needs to be done on the ignition curve to get rid of the dead spot I am seeing. I'm hopeful I can guilt Mike N. to stop by the next time he is out here for business and have him share some of his experience. Until then I will keep plugging away at it in the hope of solving this issue on my own.

It is a beautiful day here today and it was nice to have the car out on the road again (I think it's been 18 months since I pulled the donor engine out). My hope is to have it running well enough to head down to Huntington Beach at the end of the month. At this point however, I am not going to register for the Cruise-In until the car is running well enough. We'll see. Still, I am pretty impressed with the Stinger system. If I can keep making improvements at a steady pace, I should have the car running well soon.

Air fuel is the easy part with tuner studio. Once the fuel maps are good get it on a dyno for the timing maps. Are you tuning idle for manifold pressure or afr? Read and reread the tuning section of the megamanual.

[Mike N]

Tuner Studio will auto tune the VE table but the AFR and timing maps are user set and need to be reasonably close as a starting point. Tuner Studio will tune the cells in the VE table that it is operating in but not the surrounding cells. In operation MS uses the cell it is in AND the surrounding cells to command fuel. Even after using Tuner Studio you still need to go into the VE table and clean up the boundary cells surrounding the cells that it tuned. Franks AFR map has large steps in commanded AFR in the area where he is having issues. I think if he cleans up the AFR map that the hesitation / breakup should improve or go away.

[frankeeski]

Mike, I just sent you an email but perhaps you would like to respond here so others can use the information in the future. If I change the values in the AFR map do those affect the values in the VE map as well?

[Mike N]

Nothing you do to the AFR or timing tables gets directly translated back into the VE table. The VE table will only change if your timing or AFR changes makes the engine more or less volumetrically efficient as measured by the wide band O2 sensor. Auto tune only adjusts the VE table for you. You must adjust the AFR and timing tables yourself. Auto tune does not 'tune' those for you.

For a good running engine once you have the VE map auto tuned any AFR or timing changes you do should have a small effect on the VE map so typically you don’t need to keep constantly auto tuning. Just work with the timing and AFR maps. Once you are happy that you have the VE map in good shape you can remove the wideband from the system unless you have a gauge that you want to monitor.

[frankeeski]

Well folks, I thought I would give you all an update, both on the flu or what ever it is that has now gripped the entire family here and also progress on the MS2/Tuner Studio aspect of the car. I traded emails with Mike over the past few weeks and he gave me some numbers to plug into the AFR map to smooth out a stumble I was having around 3K RPM. I took the car out for a fuel run today and let the car come up to operating temp. Before leaving the gas station I opened up the Analyze/Autotune and drove the car around, varying the RPM and load on the car letting the Autotune do it's job. All in all the car is running quite a bit better. I am still having an issue but now it's much higher in the RPM range, right around the 5K range. I'll continue to work on it and probably get it on a dyno at some point. Not for max HP and torque, the new engine has plenty of both, but for good streetable drivability.

This flu or whatever it is SUCKS! 5 weeks, 2 different rounds of antibiotics, a round of steroids and finally feeling like I am on the mend. Still holding out hope we'll all be feeling well enough by next weekend to head over, in the Cobra, for the HB Cruise-In but we're not counting any chickens yet.

[Mike N]

Frank. Sounds like you are getting a handle on the tuning. Same deal on your high rpm A/F ratio the baseline tune that you had was not very 'smooth' at all and had pretty large steps between cells. Continue to smooth out the steps and get the very low and high A/F numbers back in a normal range. You don't need A/F ratios in the 11's or 15's. It does sound like you might have a bit of a weak ignition system to be causing the stumble you are getting. It would be good to get the car on a 'scope' to look at the ignition pulse.

[frankeeski]

I hear you Mike. I think it is still just an AFR thing. I haven't had any time since last week to look at the AFR map in or around the 5K mark. I may do that this weekend. As for the ignition, everything I have read and experienced so far with the 94/95 TFI system is that it does really well un-assisted well past the 6K mark and well past the HP and torque numbers I am at with this motor. If I was boosted like your setup, I would have invested in a multi spark setup already. We''ll have to see what a bit more tuning nets me.

[skullandbones]

Hi Frank,

I was curious about the issue you had with your initial timing (matching your base timing to the timing set in ECU). Did you find out why that was not accurate from the beginning? I think the required base timing is 10 degrees. Have you been able to get your problem at 5k working better?

Also, is there a way to get a smoother base tune to get your engine running better initially or is the variation from engine to engine so great that it is not feasible? From what I have read so far, they just barely get you running.

I've been reading some of the FAQ and other tuning tips on the forum. I saw a disclaimer regarding the Plug and Play aspect of PiMP. It states very plainly that just because it PNP, that doesn't mean it will tune easier or any inference that the tuning is automatic. I guess that means there is a significant learning curve even with the PiMP.

BTW: have you seen any ignition schematics for PiMP that show how it is wired for a DIS system with crank trigger? I've seen a lot of injector wiring schematics but not for the ignition set up.

Thanks,

WEK.