Side Scoops - Teaser Pic

[NorCal Ray]

Kurk,

I need the second set. Let me know where to send you payment.

Thanks, NorCal Ray

[07FIREBLADE]

I got third...

[Hendow]

If you decide to do them in carbon, then I'm in for sure...

Need some for the green machine!

[Frank818]

Awesome look! I wonder if they work with VRaptor's louvers?

[Kurk818]

Awesome look! I wonder if they work with VRaptor's louvers?

They should have no problem working with the louvers.

Here are some more photos for your viewing pleasure. Shipping out a set to Chad tomorrow for some feedback.

Waiting on my Vendor status at the moment.

[Kurk818]

[FFRSpec72]

They should have no problem working with the louvers.

It does not look like they will work with louvers as your cut out is far different. You are welcome to use my louvers to test with but I think you have already cut out too much to work with louvers.

[Kurk818]

It does not look like they will work with louvers as your cut out is far different. You are welcome to use my louvers to test with but I think you have already cut out too much to work with louvers.

How much you cut out of the quarter panel is up to you. For my quarters, yes i have cut out too much.

There is enough meat left on the outer corner after installing the louvers to have a smooth transition between the scoop and rear quarter.

[FFRSpec72]

How much you cut out of the quarter panel is up to you. For my quarters, yes i have cut out too much.

There is enough meat left on the outer corner after installing the louvers to have a smooth transition between the scoop and rear quarter.

Fo the scoops to be effective there needs to be something there to slow down the air, the louvers can serve this function at the same time focus the air flow.

[Frank818]

Fo the scoops to be effective there needs to be something there to slow down the air, the louvers can serve this function at the same time focus the air flow.

Right on.

[Canadian818]

How do they attach at the front? If they are effective, I'd imagine there's going to be a lot of force on the front corners. I guess chad will be doing some testing shortly so we'll know soon enough.

[Kurk818]

How do they attach at the front? If they are effective, I'd imagine there's going to be a lot of force on the front corners. I guess chad will be doing some testing shortly so we'll know soon enough.

1/4" stainless studs are epoxied to the scoops and bolt into place with fender washers through the body of the car.

[C.Plavan]

Those look great. I cant wait to get them on the car.

I may have to mount them differently since I don't have any flange on the outside of my vent's. I cut them alot more. I will still figure out a way to mount them.

I was not a fan of VRators side aluminum louvers to begin with, so I'm not worried about those. There are simple things you can do with a bigger scoop to slow and direct airflow (Aluminum Mesh grill insert and adding a piece of aluminum to the Wheel Splash guard that has an arc). If that needs to be done at all.

I forgot to add that I will be using these inside both vents to aid airflow to my oil cooler (3" hose also).

[Scargo]

AAF-ALL42141_ml.jpgI see these at a lot of places and some sellers are very proud of them. Where do you buy yours?

[C.Plavan]

AAF-ALL42141_ml.jpgI see these at a lot of places and some sellers are very proud of them. Where do you buy yours?

Amazon or Summit- they are just Allstar Performance brake ducts. $19ish

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Fo the scoops to be effective there needs to be something there to slow down the air, the louvers can serve this function at the same time focus the air flow.

There are simple things you can do with a bigger scoop to slow and direct airflow (Aluminum Mesh grill insert and adding a piece of aluminum to the Wheel Splash guard that has an arc). If that needs to be done at all.

I'm Confused,
Twice above, the mention of slowing down the airflow into the scoop has ben mentioned.

I think bringing the fastest, most, air into the scoop would give you the best cooling. I want the largest volume air to swirl around the engine compartment and then get sucked out the back of the car as fast as possible. Faster moving air always gives you more cooling.

Can someone explain why you would want to slow down the air at the intake scoop?
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Beyond the looks, I'm not seeing functional value, as these will disrupt the airflow down the side of the car and have an impact on the rear low pressure area. There is nothing to slowdown the air and increase the pressure and opening up the area around the scoop just defeats the aerodynamics for air flow/cooling. The side scoop is not in a high pressure area, this is in a slow-moving air that clings to the side surface of the car, a scoop needs to be above this area

[FFRSpec72]

Can someone explain why you would want to slow down the air at the intake scoop?

Slowing down the air will increase the pressure as the air builds up, the pressure keeps the air circulating large volume does not keep the air circulating

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Slowing down the air will increase the pressure as the air builds up, the pressure keeps the air circulating not the volume does not keep the air circulating

I totally disagree. That is like saying if you put a piece of cardboard behind your radiator to slow down the air flow and increase pressure, you will get better cooling.
I'm sticking to wide open vents and scoops.
Bob

[Kurk818]

I totally disagree. That is like saying if you put a piece of cardboard behind your radiator to slow down the air flow and increase pressure, you will get better cooling.
I'm sticking to wide open vents and scoops.
Bob

I think as long as you have enough vent relief on the back side to let the heated air escape, the results will show.

We'll see what Chad finds out after installing and testing.

[FFRSpec72]

I totally disagree. That is like saying if you put a piece of cardboard behind your radiator to slow down the air flow and increase pressure, you will get better cooling.
I'm sticking to wide open vents and scoops.
Bob

Go back and read your physics books and read Bernoulli's Equation, why do you think that the F1 cars use the snorkel types of scopes for the engine?

[C.Plavan]

Beyond the looks, I'm not seeing functional value, as these will disrupt the airflow down the side of the car and have an impact on the rear low pressure. There is nothing to slowdown the air and increase the pressure and opening up the area around the scoop just defeats the aerodynamics for air flow/cooling.

Tony,
With all due respect, once you have a running car or have done testing on your own, you can make a statement like that. I can tell you the stock side vents do not flow enough air at speed. We are thinking with the added door vents on my R, we need something to "catch" more air because of the velocity/turbulence of the air being thrown out of those vents. My air intake was right in that vent, it was not getting enough air, and the air it was getting was hot(combination of flow and amount of air). If there was more forced, directed air coming in, that would not of happened. I had to move my air intake up to the passenger hump area, and run hatchless to get cool air coming into the intake. The same goes for my version 1, oil cooler vent intakes that were also attached to the side vents on the inside. Granted, I have now made an insulated box for my oil cooler, more air will help.

Honestly, who cares about disrupted air down the back 1/4 side of the car if it means better cooling and more forced air in the side vents. That is not even anything I am slightly worry about. No one will even feel that.

If you want to finish your car so I am not the only one out here on the track trying to get everything working in harmony, please get building and finish it up. I think everyone would appreciate "Real World" testing from multiple sources. That is what I am trying to do.

I don't think it is at all productive to criticize Kurk818's work without it even being tested yet. I can tell you definitively that the stock vents were not working for me, on the track.

Bob- Notice my last sentence in the quote. I'm not at all sure about that either.

[FFRSpec72]

Tony,
With all due respect, once you have a running car or have done testing on your own, you can make a statement like that.

My car will be done soon and out on the track so thanks for your concern. There are some things that one can figure out w/o actually having the car on the track, this is one of them. There is also nothing wrong with expressing opinions and experiences here, unless you believe yours are the only ones that counts.

[C.Plavan]

Sorry to hijack Kurk818- However, It looks as if the Holiday Inn stock should be going up. Because we are all experts.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I think as long as you have enough vent relief on the back side to let the heated air escape, the results will show.

We'll see what Chad finds out after installing and testing.

Kurk,
I love your scoops. If anything I wish they were a little bigger.
Looks like I will put my oil HE in the left side and my AWIC HE in the right side.

Autocross test and tune in 8 days and track day in 30 days.
Right now I have no data logging of temperatures. I need to work on that.
Bob

[Mechie3]

Tony is correct that slower flows have a higher pressure than a fast moving flow. This is how airplane wings work. Pressure must increase with slower flows in order to conserve energy. Think of blowing air on the front of the car. In the free stream, pressure is lower, as it hits the windshield, the flow slows down and pressure increases. If it helps, imagine that the air can't escape fast enough and is being pressed on by the incoming faster air and that is how pressure builds.

Ideally you want a low pressure zone in the back with a high pressure zone in the front to feed the low pressure zone. The potential energy terms and the density terms (assuming less than mach .3) of bernoulli's equation cancel, so we're only dealing with velocities and pressures. By slowing the air at the inlet you increase pressure and create a higher pressure differential across the engine bay. However, his needs to be balance with total flow for the required heat transfer and the equations of conservation of mass where a smaller closed area has a higher flow velocity.

Lots of times race cars have radiators in the side pods with a small inlet area leading to a diverging nozzle at the radiator. The back side of the radiator has a converging nozzle. This increases the flow speeds at the inlet and outlet and slows it where the radiator is to allow more time for heat to transfer from the radiator to the air. Sure, you can get a larger radiator inlet area, but at the expense of more drag. These are some of the games you can play to optimize setups and use the air you have vs just cramming in more air.

[Frank818]

The side scoop is not in a high pressure area, this is in a slow-moving air that clings to the side surface of the car, a scoop needs to be above this area

Seriously? I thought it was, that's why I asked long for a complete picture with colors of the pressure differences on all the body parts and over the car.

[Kurk818]

The scoops are there to catch more air. How you funnel it is up to you.

Im learning as i go, i hope we all are.

[C.Plavan]

I understand all that, but what makes me wonder is all the engine compartment air escape routes (bottom of motor, top vent, rear vents). Its not a perfect environment and I know its all related. We do not have the funds, expertise, or way of measurement to make any conclusive findings. We are going by Armchair Quarterbacking. If I get the cooling I need- perfect.

My oil cooler insulated box is more Bernoulli's Equation, than that of the engine compartment. My example: 3" ducts from portion of Kurk's side vents--->3" duct hose----> to oil cooler attached ducts---->to insulated oil cooler box.



BTW- I will do some yarn tuft and gopro tests around my loop next week.


I'm good with these on this mid engine

[longislandwrx]

not to get off topic but Chad, you mentioned how violent the air coming out of the front wheel vents was... any thoughts on ditching the vents, and ducting that air through the doors to the back? or do you think the air is too hot from the rad?

[C.Plavan]

not to get off topic but Chad, you mentioned how violent the air coming out of the front wheel vents was... any thoughts on ditching the vents, and ducting that air through the doors to the back? or do you think the air is too hot from the rad?

That's all a real guess of a bunch of combined minds at the track. All the guys said "You need a scoop of some sort". I'm hoping these will fix that.

[flynntuna]

To bad the windtunnel video FFR made doesn't show more detail we could actually use.


http://www.factoryfive.com/videos/project-818/

[Kurk818]

Russian built such great cars in the 60's that they didnt bother to make any more advances in technology.

If its good enough for Putin, its good enough for me

800px-Putin_with_his_1972_Zaporozhets.jpg

[AZPete]

Maybe you should add a chrome lip to your vent. It makes the Zaporozhets look racy!