Lizard Skin or Not

[Terry]

Hi Everyone

My name is Terry and I have Coupe number 637. I am contemplating spraying the firewall and foot boxes with Lizard Skin Ceramic coating, in the hopes of reducing heat transfer to the cockpit. I am very close to installing the engine and gearbox and was wondering if anyone had used this product, and was it worth the effort. Any other suggestions for reducing heat transfer would be much appreciated. Should I wrap the headers?

Thanks!!
Terry

[mjazzka]

Terry,

Glad you are in the forum! There are a bunch of great guys here to help.

That's very interesting you bring this up right now because I am going through the same situation. I looked up Lizard Skin and it is EXPENSIVE. In keeping with my DIY build I looked up alternatives and found this link: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/alte...in-103610.html

While you aren't going to be able to replicate the exact properties of Lizard Skin, thermal conduction and sound deadening are not exactly rocket science. Using micro balloons in a paint will increase the thermal resistance by adding insulating layers, thereby decreasing heat transfer. I've seen a few applications of the DIY stuff and it looks like it could be a very viable option. Try around $30-$40 for raw materials of ~3 gallons instead of $90 for one gallon. Of course you still need an applicator, but that's what HF is for

I ordered some micro balloons today from Wicks Aircraft Supply and will be trying it out next week when they arrive. I'll keep you posted if you want, but it'll definitely be in my build thread.

Hi Everyone

My name is Terry and I have Coupe number 637. I am contemplating spraying the firewall and foot boxes with Lizard Skin Ceramic coating, in the hopes of reducing heat transfer to the cockpit. I am very close to installing the engine and gearbox and was wondering if anyone had used this product, and was it worth the effort. Any other suggestions for reducing heat transfer would be much appreciated. Should I wrap the headers?

Thanks!!
Terry

[MVRight]

Used it on my MkIV, but no in car experience yet. Anecdotally while applying and allowing to dry in the sun, one panels without LS were blistering hot on both sides, those with, cooler on one side. There are other products that will do the job, I went with this and likely some thin material on the inside for heat control. Does reduce the tinny sound of the panels.

[MikeJones]

I used Lizardskin - both the sound attenuating and heat product, sprayed both inside and outside. I have about 20,000 miles on the car. The products do a very good job of reducing the drum effect and giving weight to the panels. They also nicely seal the aluminum panels to get rid of any gaps and seams between the panels.

Apart from the drum effect, the reduction of noise is minimal, as there are enough pathways that through the aluminum isnt dominant.

The footboxes are very hot. I like to drive in bare feet. Before adding heat shields, I had to be careful not to touch the side of the footbox or else it would be quickly painful. Last year, we drove to mid-ohio (about 7 hours) and my son melted the soles on his running shoes. One of this years projects will be heat shields on the pass. side. Lizardskin reduces the heat transfer but it won't be cool to the touch and you will need shields. I also did not add the small hood scoops and wish I had to promote cool air injected across the headers. And yes my headers are wrapped too.

It also adds considerable weight so not for a challenge car. Would I do it again? Yes.

Regards, Mike

[edwardb]

Here's a thread I started over on the other forum showing my experience with Lizard Skin on my recently completed Mk4 Roadster: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...xperience.html

Are you planning to do the cockpit side or the engine side? It's not clear from your original post. Personally, I would only used on the cockpit side. Then covered with carpet. Works great. The car pictured in the above thread is now legal and a driver. Just turned 400 miles today. Heat and sound control are great. While I'm very happy with the final product, it is still a latex material. So when dry it's hard but not rock hard. Fine for under carpet. IMO in the engine compartment would be hard keep looking nice. It that's important to you. Regarding cost, I guess it's all relative. Personally I'm not going to try to save $50 a gallon (or whatever) for a many multi-thousand dollar project by experimenting versus a proven solution. Other heat and sound products, like Dynamat, etc. will cost just as much or more to do the car. Good luck with your build.

[CJBergquist]

I made homemade lizard skin...micro balloons and exterior latex paint. I used it on all the sheet metal parts except the firewall. I used insulation on the inside of the firewall under the dash and around the outside of the foot box with heat shields. This link has some photos and comments if you scroll down on each photo.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/511030...th/5295367158/

[wallace18]

I used Lizard skin on the outside of all my aluminum. Then used Eastwood thermocoustic on the inside of all interior alum. Also made heat shields in the engine compartment. See my build thread. The end result is a very comfortable interior. with A/C even in 90+ degree days here in Florida.

65054.JPG65078.JPG

[Terry]

Thanks to everyone for all of the inputs!! Basically I will incorporate all of the suggestions, and do everything possible.
1.Lizard skin on the aluminum - definitely on the firewall, maybe inside as well
2. Thermocoustic on the inside for sure, plus carpet
3. Heatshields - I found some High temp 1/4" thick flexible ceramic insulation at Mcmaster-carr - So, I am thinking about making heatshield sandwiches in the engine compartment for both footboxes
4. Wrap the headers
5. install the small hood scoops to let fresh air into the engine compartment

And I thought I was close to dropping in the 427 crate motor with TKO 500

Thanks again to everyone for responding!!

More to come...

Terry

[MikeJones]

Terry, for heat shields, you can also use an aluminum sheet spaced off the footbox by about 1/4 or 3/8". This provides an air gap and if open at bottom and top, will keep cool by convection as well. I don't have any pics', but I borrowed that idea from others so there should be photos out there. Also looks good polished and provides protection for the lizardskin.

Regards, Mike

[Terry]

Thanks Mike! I took your suggestions to heart, I won't be driving barefoot anytime soon!! But I will be installing the heatshields and installing the small scoops to allow air into the engine compartment.

Thank you Sir!!

Terry

[carlewms]

Terry,

Another factor in your decision should be wether you have the compressor to use to spray on the Lizard Skin. I was planning to use Lizard Skin because I really think it has the most flexibility and EdwardB's build thread provided an excellent path to getting it done but in the end I went with Dynamat Extreme because I lacked the compressor.

I also looked at other lesser products and went with the DE after reviewing some issues with running of the butyl rubber when hot, etc. Like EdwardB said ... your spending a lot of money on the rest of the car so why go cheap now on a critical component.

If you have the equipment to apply it based on my view it is less expensive and easier to apply than the DE type product. You spend a lot of time templating and cutting the DE type product...and if you screw it up like I did ... you end up with some wasted pieces.

Just my two cents ...

Carl

[wallace18]

I put on the lizard skin with a roller. Note: You must first put on the lizard skin sound deadener then the ceramic heat barrier. That is per manufactures instructions

[mjazzka]

I put on the lizard skin with a roller. Note: You must first put on the lizard skin sound deadener then the ceramic heat barrier. That is per manufactures instructions

I think I might go that way if I paint the panels before installation. Your panels look great, so I don't have any qualms about doing that then. Thanks for blazing the trail!

[mjazzka]

Like EdwardB said ... your spending a lot of money on the rest of the car so why go cheap now on a critical component.

There are a ridiculous number of "critical" components in these cars, so if I had that mindset about all of them I wouldn't be able to build the car due to cost . Tragedy of the Commons, in an interesting way. If I had no qualms on cost then sure, LS or Dynamat or any of the name brand things would be the way to go for everything. It's just another option for Terry!

[edwardb]

There are a ridiculous number of "critical" components in these cars, so if I had that mindset about all of them I wouldn't be able to build the car due to cost . Tragedy of the Commons, in an interesting way. If I had no qualms on cost then sure, LS or Dynamat or any of the name brand things would be the way to go for everything. It's just another option for Terry!

Figured my comment might hit a nerve... There's no question these things aren't cheap, and most of us aren't on an unlimited budget. Yes there are a lot of critical components. But there is no one answer. In the end it becomes a question of risk vs. reward, and ease of recovery should be wrong decision be made. I try to think of the end product, and how easy (or hard) it would be to recover from a wrong decision. Controlling heat and sound control makes a big difference in the quality of the end product IMO. Whether on the engine/firewall side, or the cockpit side, adding or changing heat and sound control to a completed car would be a real pain. That's the context of why I wouldn't experiment and pay what I think is a pretty minimal amount to use a proven solution.