Fords Ecoboost engine

[flynntuna]

On the F5 Facebook page, Dave is asking if he should use the Ecoboost engine on the 818c.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Facto...0262335?v=wall

[Hindsight]

I've heard nothing but great things about the ecoboost engine. Personally though, if they are going to augment the engine options, I would suggest a high output naturally aspirated 4 or 6 cylinder engine.

[metros]

S2000 f20c would be my choice. Plus they handle boost well.

[flynntuna]

Not sure which of the ecoboost engines he's speaking of, at 310hp. The 2.3L used in the mustang is 305HP and 300ft/lb torque in stock tune. Very cool and reliable.

[billjr212]

345 in the upcoming Ford Focus RS. http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-fo...-disappointed/

[metalmaker12]

The hp in the ecoboost is tune specific, but the RS motor will be Rs specific built and $$$ to buy

I think a powerful NA with rev is the way to go. S2k

[Frank818]

I think a powerful NA with rev is the way to go. S2k

We are all waiting for you to make that happen.

[Dragonfire]

An 818 Coupe with the ecoboost na or turbo would be THE ride. New technologically and reliability. So far have not been impressed with subies. Just my .02.

[apexanimal]

i think length would be an issue with all of these engines...

i do remember some talks about the 1.0 liter ecoboost at some point though...

[blkstig]

I'm in the process of building a 2.3l variation of this motor found in mazdaspeed3/6 platforms. These motors are pretty decent. Shooting for 450-500awhp in my speed6. I don't think it would fit well in the 818, but I like it as an option.
K20 or s2000 motor would be ideal. Better yet, 20b 3rotor would be my dream engine of choice

[apexanimal]

i looked into the k20/24 and i believe it is about 5-6" longer than the ej20/25 is...

[flynntuna]

You tube video of the 818 engine bay...


https://youtu.be/svgQlRiqtac

[SnyderJD]

My stomach dropped a little when I read this... Having already purchased a wrx donor pallet from Wayne, my options for the 818c are already set. I like having additional motor options for the future.

[blkstig]

You tube video of the 818 engine bay...


https://youtu.be/svgQlRiqtac

"yea it'll fit"
I better order an 818c before the price skyrockets. This news will bring some serious buyers in my opinion

[Frank818]

Wait! Something's interesting in this CAD!

Did you notice the gearbox's end shows under the support plate that is welded to the frame? The plate with 2 big holes for the supports, on the CAD they removed it and the gearbox fits lower.

Wouldn't that cause a problem fitting the rear diffuser?? I thought nothing could be lower than the frame that comes up at a 15-or-so-degree angle at the back. That is important for my build as it would be helpful if I could lower my gearbox 1in or so, might prevent me from cutting the upper crossbars and modifying the deck lids. That would be a huge saver.

[Canadian818]

I cut my plate off frank, transmission is definitely lower. Not sure if I'll reuse it lower or make something different. As for the defuser, as long as nothing is lower than the bottom of the frame your good. But if need be, notch the defuser for whatever hangs below.

[tirod]

The extremely short front to back of the Subaru type motors causes the issue. It set a precedent but doesn't mean the 818 is limited to just those motors any more than the Roadster is only capable of being fitted with small block Fords.

When the plan first came together the WRX was about the best choice to get 400hp into the chassis - all the while Ford was working on the Ecoboost and now it's appropriate to consider wedging them in.

Even if it means making the engine bay a more appropriate size.

[Frank818]

The extremely short front to back of the Subaru type motors causes the issue.

You nailed it!!! I believe I will have to let the gearbox shifter bracket exceed by 0.5 to 1" of the rear bumper, I measured 50" long with my engine and Porsche G50. From the FW to the end of the gearbox support frame, it's 49-49.5", I need 5mm clearance of the FW so that's gonna be a headache to fix, if anyone slowly bumps me in the back, the first thing it would it is the shifter linkage! Not good.

[flynntuna]

With the car sitting so low, the linkage would slide under their bumper. anyway being bumped in the rear wouldn't have any good result.

[apexanimal]

what are the dimensions of the 2.3 ecoboost?

[flynntuna]

Good question, I've been searching for that answer too. Best bet I think is to go to a Ford dealership with a tape measure.

[David_Ingermann]

Because i'm one of those people, I would personally love to see someone cram in a Ford 289 or an Audi 4.2 in... If that's even possible... But an Eco Boost would be one heck of an engine for the 818. I think they should do it.

[metalmaker12]

How about price of an ecoboost??

[C.Plavan]

If I did it again, (which I won't) would of gone the Porsche aircooled 50mm PMO carb'd flat 6 route. No need for radiator and aluminum tubes ($900), No AWIC ($1400), No dry sump (track car-$3500+), no ECU (~$450), no iWire (~$2200). Much lighter, and sound way better. It would of been way cheaper than the motor and associated tidbits I have in my R now..... Did I mention much lighter too! I would of saved money....

[theburner9]

If I did it again, (which I won't) would of gone the Porsche aircooled 50mm PMO carb'd flat 6 route. No need for radiator and aluminum tubes ($900), No AWIC ($1400), No dry sump (track car-$3500+), no ECU (~$450), no iWire (~$2200). Much lighter, and sound way better. It would of been way cheaper than the motor and associated tidbits I have in my R now..... Did I mention much lighter too! I would of saved money....

Where do you get a reasonably price engine though? And would you use a Porsche transaxle? I'm still planning my next build with Subaru drivetrain but maybe number 3 would be Porsche...

[C.Plavan]

Where do you get a reasonably price engine though? And would you use a Porsche transaxle? I'm still planning my next build with Subaru drivetrain but maybe number 3 would be Porsche...

3.0L-3.6L Porsche motors are not cheap, but when you look at a "Reasonable" priced 2.5L subi motor, after buying the motor, all the upgrades and additions, you are in Porsche motor territory. Ideally, I would use a 915 transmission with a 914 side shift adapter. Kennedy Eng makes a plate for subi to Porsche transmissions, I wonder if they could do the opposite if you wanted to run a subi trans.

I have to measure the length of the Porsche motor/trans but it should be doable with some cutting/welding. But like I said, I have no desire to build another car.

[HCP 65 COUPE]

Seems to me a transverse layout would work better than the longitudinal layout they are attempting here, But I don't know if the engine bay would be wide enough?

[UpstateCobraGuy]

Because i'm one of those people, I would personally love to see someone cram in a Ford 289 or an Audi 4.2 in... If that's even possible... But an Eco Boost would be one heck of an engine for the 818. I think they should do it.

The Audi would get your juices going!

[metalmaker12]

Seems to me a transverse layout would work better than the longitudinal layout they are attempting here, But I don't know if the engine bay would be wide enough?

It is deff not wide enough for the transmission in transverse.

Not to bring it up again but the subie motor is pretty reliable if done correctly and your not trying to get insane power levels out of a small engine. When racing every type of engine gets beat up. I don't think just swaping to a different turbo motor is the answer, they heat up too guys. I really think a lighten 818 ( 1500-1600lbs) Na with 200-225whp would be the answer to a reliable racer.
Aluminum radiator support, aluminum rear tower brace, aluminum or carbon floor, gas tank pan panels, etc etc. it can all be done. That's the track FFR should be on. The subie motor is raced everyday, you gotta cool it down really good, you really gotta know how to tune and build the motor and you gotta know your limits. I have not seen true Subaru purest team build and track one yet, I beat they have great results.

[Frank818]

Seems to me a transverse layout would work better than the longitudinal layout they are attempting here, But I don't know if the engine bay would be wide enough?

Without important mods? Absolutely not. Unless you got a freakin small engine, a very special config engine, there is no place for a transverse gearbox, I tried it. The long V cross bars that come from the top and the links brackets are directly in the way. You would need a very very short engine that would sit very forward and for which the gearbox would then take the space on the left. Name me a few if you know.

[apexanimal]

Good question, I've been searching for that answer too. Best bet I think is to go to a Ford dealership with a tape measure.

if anyone is able to find dimensions for this engine, i think it would be super helpful for those of us who are thinking of alternative engines

[FFR-ADV]

My instinct is that if FFR chooses to offer an Ecoboost option that they and we will benefit from FFR's long relationship with Ford Racing. It is a shame that the Subaru SPT and STI organizations have not stepped up their support for the 818 the way that Ford Racing has supported FFR's other efforts.

Personally I would rather see FFR put the engineering effort into making a street legal Formula Ford kit with the Ecoboost in it. That would be a killer track car and off the charts Hair On Fire on the streets. Ford teased us with this three years ago. Perhaps Ford might even be willing to pass some of the design along to FFR and sell more Ford Racing parts to our community?

[Jim Schenck]

The Ford engine experiment is only mean to widen the appeal of the 818s and not replace the Subaru engines as the standard engine the car is designed around. One of the big benefits of the Ecoboost in particular is that Ford Racing makes a stand alone harness that greatly simplifies the wiring on the engine side.

The engine will still be mounted longitudinally and still connected to a Subie transaxle, the extra length is not as much as you would expect going from a flat four to the inline 4 as I measured 16.5 inches from crank pulley to bellhousing on the Subaru and 19.1 inches on the Ford.

[apexanimal]

^that does surprise me! thanks for the length measurement!

do you happen to have the height as well?

[FFR-ADV]

Thanks Jim,
I look forward to seeing the experiment as it progresses. It continues to amaze me how many projects you and your team handle at one time. More options is a great thing.

[Jim Schenck]

Height is just about 26 inches from the bottom of the pan to the top of the valve cover. The high pressure fuel pump sticks up about another 2-1/2 inches at the back of the engine. Right now it look like two tubes will have to be moved to make this fit but that might be about it.

[Olli]

Jim, which Ecoboost engine are you talking about?

Olli

[bwwooster]

How about a Honda V-6? Lots of those around, and 300 hp should be no problem, especially with the 3.5 liter.

[Jim Schenck]

Olli,

Turbocharged 2.3 liter inline 4.

[apexanimal]

Height is just about 26 inches from the bottom of the pan to the top of the valve cover. The high pressure fuel pump sticks up about another 2-1/2 inches at the back of the engine. Right now it look like two tubes will have to be moved to make this fit but that might be about it.

thank you jim! very helpful...