Jazzman’s #8745 "Flip Top" Build

[WIS89]

Jazz-

I am pleased that you are dismissing the negative comments. I too appreciate hearing differing viewpoints, as I often change my mind when others chime in and remind me I am being stupid -- a fairly common situation for me. However, these cars are about as personal as they get, and I think the tilt front is a very personal decision, and there is no wrong answer here. I really like them, and admire the craftsmanship that goes into this. However, I don't have the courage to try it myself!

I look forward to watching your continued progress; I remain impressed! I think it will look great, and I truly admire you for taking it on.

Good luck as you continue!

Regards,

Steve

[6t8dart]

I saw King's roadster in person and I have to admit it was definitely an engineering marvel.

[2bking]

I saw King's roadster in person and I have to admit it was definitely an engineering marvel.

Thanks, Jazzman is trying a simpler approach, as far as fiberglass work goes, by using the hood lip on the body and the latches from the coupe. He has got a good handle on what's needed and a strong constitution to do it so I think it will turn out fine. I have given him a drawing package with a complete list of purchased items for all the fab parts and he is off and running. I have offered to make some of the more difficult parts for him but for now, he wants it to be his creation. The forum is giving him support in many other aspects so I think he will succeed.

[dallas_]

Jazzman,
Just checked in on your thread and I'm glad to see you decided to proceed with the tilt front.

Like you said, it's a personal preference and not everyone will like it, but it's your car so do with it what YOU want. The first original Shelby 427 car (nicknamed 'The Turd') had a tilt front so the purists can't complain about it too much. It does make access SO much easier. I have never regretted doing it.

It's nice to see each successive version of this getting better and better. King certainly improved over my simple attempt. Keep us posted on your progress.



John

[Jazzman]

Not much to "show" for today, but I made progress. I am trying to fit the body correctly. I knew that I needed to cut some off the trunk side panels and the lower trunk floor panel to allow the body to slip forward and to have enough room for bulb seal. The last time I had the body on, the measurements seem to indicate that I needed to remove between 1.25-1.5" from the tail end to make the body fit correctly. I waited several weeks to do it because something in the back of my mind said this is just too much to remove. Since those parts are all powder coated and riveted in, I really don't want to make a mistake that requires that they be replaced. I decided that I would cut the pieces in smaller nibbles. I began by cutting back about 3/8" which turned out to still not be enough. Then I went to a 3/4" depth. This was much better, but was still a bit too tight for the bulb seal. I then cut back to 7/8" and this turned out to be just right. I installed all the bulb seal all around, but by this time all my "hands" had gone home. They tell me they are coming back tomorrow. I will ask them to help me put on the body yet one more time to see if all the bulb sealed locations are acceptable.

[edwardb]

Not much to "show" for today, but I made progress. I am trying to fit the body correctly. I knew that I needed to cut some off the trunk side panels and the lower trunk floor panel to allow the body to slip forward and to have enough room for bulb seal. The last time I had the body on, the measurements seem to indicate that I needed to remove between 1.25-1.5" from the tail end to make the body fit correctly. I waited several weeks to do it because something in the back of my mind said this is just too much to remove. Since those parts are all powder coated and riveted in, I really don't want to make a mistake that requires that they be replaced. I decided that I would cut the pieces in smaller nibbles. I began by cutting back about 3/8" which turned out to still not be enough. Then I went to a 3/4" depth. This was much better, but was still a bit too tight for the bulb seal. I then cut back to 7/8" and this turned out to be just right. I installed all the bulb seal all around, but by this time all my "hands" had gone home. They tell me they are coming back tomorrow. I will ask them to help me put on the body yet one more time to see if all the bulb sealed locations are acceptable.

Boy I hope that's right. I've just not seen any builds, my own included, that required that much trimming. 1/8 to 1/4 inch here and there (maybe) but not that much.

[Jeff Kleiner]

On some cars I've cut almost an inch from the rear floor lip and a half or so from the vertical edge of the trunk side panels. The floors are hand bent at FFR and the side panels are builder positioned and installed so there will be some amount of case by case variation. The bulb seal is very forgiving.

Jeff

[edwardb]

Boy I hope that's right. I've just not seen any builds, my own included, that required that much trimming. 1/8 to 1/4 inch here and there (maybe) but not that much.

On some cars I've cut almost an inch from the rear floor lip and a half or so from the vertical edge of the trunk side panels. The floors are hand bent at FFR and the side panels are builder positioned and installed so there will be some amount of case by case variation. The bulb seal is very forgiving.

Jeff

Hey Jeff. I agree about the rear floor lip, especially to get the trunk lid fit properly. I personally haven't cut an inch, but agree maybe more than the 1/8 to 1/4 inch I mentioned. I was mainly referring to the sides, and just haven't seen the amount of trimming shown in post #194 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post235319) referenced earlier. Doesn't sound like quite that much was removed, but still seems like a lot to me. Like I said, just hope it's right.

[Jazzman]

Well Jeff and EdwardB, I can confirm that the trimming turned out fine . . . but just barely. After measuring twice, then checking again just because I am paranoid, I cut off what seemed to be right. I am just glad that the bulb seal is back there. If I had cut off even 1/8" more, the bulb seal would not be correctly compressed. As it is it is fine, and it might even get a bit tighter because the body may have to slide just a bit farther forward to fit the doors correctly. Note to self next time: trim half what you think you will need. Do it again if it is still too tight.

[Jazzman]

I suppose I have been putting off the big job of actually beginning the process of cutting the body. Like 2BKing before me, this is not a decision or project to jump into lightly. I have really thought about it, studied it, evaluated it, and I still like it. I spent a couple of hours this morning setting up multiple purchases from Amazon, U.S. Composites, and McMaster-Carr. For those of you that might be considering this mod, you might be asking the cost. If you factor in a nice round $1000 for this mod, you will be very close. The parts alone come to $600-$650, and there are some additional supplies and tools that you would not normally buy which add another $300 or so. So, A ballpark figure of $1000 is probably realistic. Thanks again to 2BKing for putting together such an excellent shopping list!!

Today I continued the process of preparing the body to be cut. I re-measured every point on my layout now that it is sitting on the frame. I found a few places that I wanted to adjust the location slightly, but nothing major. I want to make sure that both sides are mirror images of each other. After consulting with 2BKing, I finally understood why his body is cut vertically above the exhaust pipe cutout rather than continuing the horizontal cut above the exhaust cutout all the way through the front fender flare. You will not be surprised to learn that King is right again. The "elephant" ears mount just inside the area behind the fender flare. If you cut the body horizontally, the front section of the body forward of the exhaust pipe has nothing to support it. I adjusted my cutout lines to fit the new design.







So that I can "see" the pattern that the cut will take from the inside of the body, I decided to drill 3/32" holes every 2" along the cut line. I laid out the hole pattern using the same rivet spacing tool that came with the FFR kit, then drilled each hole.





I finished off the evening manufacturing some of the various parts that I will need to construct the tilting hinge system that will support the trusses and ultimately the body. I cut out 14 pieces of .040 aluminum 6" x2". When King did his tilt front mod, he spent quite some time sanding custom wooden pieces to match the curvature of the body and hold the rear body and the front/hood together until all the fiberglass work had been completed. King made the suggestion to do the pieces of aluminum. They will bend with the natural contour of body without having to spend hours custom making wooden pieces that fit. Excellent idea King! I will show you these pieces of aluminum in action hopefully tomorrow. I am embarrassed to say that in all the thousands of nails, screws, bolts, washers, and every other kind of fastener imaginable, I realized I do not have any 8-32 nuts left. I will have to pick some of them up tomorrow.

[Jazzman]

I have been fabricating the various parts to construct 2BKing's Tilt front system. Keep in mind that I do not have a metal cutting band saw. I have been fabricating the parts using a Jig saw, a drill press, a couple of grinder wheels, and the die grinder for finish and smoothing. I will admit that these photos and commentary are not going to mean much until I get to the end of the construction phase, but bear with me.

I started with the main cross member and ends which supports the entire system and are attached to the main FFR frame below and beside the radiator.





I installed 1/4"x20 rivet nuts. Note to self: when buying a rivet nut installation tool, but one with longer arms. The one I bought seems to be of good quality, and might be fine for smaller rivnut sizes. But for this size, it is extremely hard to use. I am unable to squeeze the rivet nut by hand. I have to put the tool on the bench and push down on the upper handle. Not optimal perhaps, but it worked. the rivet nuts seated nicely and work great!!!



With some 1/8" aluminum plate, I made the two corner pieces.






EDIT: I removed these photos because I later learned that I had attached the parts incorrectly.

[Jazzman]

One of 2BKing's great ideas for this tilt system is to use some of the parts already provided by FFR. They did require a bit of modification, however. (Note to self, don't powdercoat pieces that you will later have to cut and grind!)

First I trimmed what I will call the "bottom piece of the FFR hinge system. They had to be narrowed, then have a couple of new holes drilled. The ends had to be cut at an angle. Then I turned my attention to the "top" pieces of the FFR hinge system. I had to enlarge the outermost holes, then add additional holes nearby to create an adjustable channel. It is this adjustment channel that will provide one of the key adjustment points to line up the full hood with the body.



Again, all of this was done with a jig saw, a grinder wheel or two, and a round file. The filing took the greatest amount of time!!



Finally, I turned my attention to the aluminum pieces that will hold the body and hood in perfect alignment after they are cut apart while all the fiberglass work is done on the underside. I began by cutting 14 pieces of 2"x6" aluminum out of the left over pieces of sheet aluminum that was not used on the car. (I used the material that had come out of the hole that was cut when I installed the dropped trunk box and the extra DS footbox panel that was not used because I am not doing a "donor" car.) I have now discovered that I will need about four more, but I will use the same procedure. I am making them all the same so that they will be interchangeable regardless of location on the body. After cutting them all out, I stacked them all up and clamped them together like a deck of cards. I then used the drill press to drill one hole through all of them simultaneously. I then put an 8x32 bolt through the hole to hold them all together. Then I drilled the second hole on the other end, creating an entire series of pieces that will have the same distance between the holes.





Then I started placing the aluminum "bandages" on the body at strategic locations. I can only attach a few of them until I take the body off, but this will give you an idea of where I am going.

[Jazzman]

This past weekend was a very productive one. Last week I spent most of my available shop time making the various parts that will support the actual hinge system. Four of the parts are made from thick walled half inch steel tubing. After cutting to the appropriate lengths, each tube had to be crushed at both ends to provide a flat attachement point. My 50 year old bench vise handled the job perfectly, although it did take an extension pipe to apply enough pressure to get them really flat.





After flattening both ends, the shorter end had to bent to the correct angle to fit.



A bit of work on the grinder wheels, the wire wheels, and the polishing wheels, and you will end up with this:

[Jazzman]

Now I can start constructing the actual hinge system framework. Here are the parts in the order that they were attached:



I found that I had to shorten the main cross tube by about 1/8" to make the system line up on the main FFR Frame. After shortening the main cross tube, I began attaching the other parts.







The diagonal tube is temporarily attached. It has to be removed to install the system on the main car frame.



Then the slightly modified FFR hinges are attached:

[Jazzman]

Here is a couple of shots to give you an idea of where this is going. First, the sytem with one of the two main trusses attached:



and here is the system clamped in place to check for fitment:

[Jazzman]

The next step was to fabricate all the attachments pieces that will connect the main trusses to underside of the body. This part of the project took three nights to do because my hand wore out cutting .040 sheet aluminum by hand! Here is the roughed out pieces: (actually there are two more, but I forgot to put them in the photo!!)



then every piece had to be sanded and shaped to size:





I then drilled the holes for the bolts, drew in the points where they must be bent, and bent them using the bench vise









Repeat this basic process 16 times to create all the attachment pieces to be attached to the trusses. Yes, this does take some time to get them all bent to the right angles. They are all made in pairs, but some of them are duplicates of each other and some are mirror images of each other.

[Jazzman]

The tilt system is beginning to take shape and become a recognizable system. Tonight I finished creating all the truss mounting pieces. I attached them to the trusses, and then I added the attachment points that will ultimately be glued to the underside of the hood section.









In order to mount the truss in the right place, and to glue on the attachment points, I had to place the hinge system where I think it will be attached. I have not yet drilled the holes to actually mount the hinge system because I want to be sure it is in the right place before I do. I used C clamps to hold the hinge system in place for mockup.

[WIS89]

Jazz-

Great work! That's an awful lot of customization, but I know it will be worth it. I really love the tilt front!

By the way, that work bench is awesome! There is nothing like those older quality benches.

Keep up the great work, and documentation. I have enjoyed following along!

Regards,

Steve

[Jazzman]

Thanks for the compliments, Steve. Funny story about that bench. I built it about 14 years ago. It weighs a ton because the top is 4" thick, solid oak with Maple ends. I worked in a fancy office building that had a lot of solid oak wood work throughout the foyer and several of the big offices. In an attempt to "update" the building, they decided to tear out all the oak hardwood trim. I came out of the office to discover a large pile of 1x4x10 pieces of oak with nails sticking out of them. I picked up as many of them as I could stuff in my truck, took them home, removed all the nails (what a job!!) and then glue lam'ed them together to build this bench. It is a great bench. The only mistake that I have found that I made is that the front piece that forms the top front edge is made out of the same oak. The grain is too unstable. As it drys out, it is losing strength and splintering off. I should have made that front rail out of hard maple. Oh well. Someday I will probably try to router off the corner and glue a piece of maple on there. For now it works great, and it was almost free!! (technically the two bench vices cost more than all the rest of the wood combined!!)

[Jazzman]

This has been an interesting day. I decided to order the Coyote engine and control pack. I have been researching several sources, and found one that advertised both pieces for about $6800. Since normally the engine is about $6600, and the control pack about $1500, this bundled price was a big savings. I called to place my order, and was crushed to discover that the bundled price was a Ford promotion price that had expired June 1! Missed it by THIS much!! Back to the drawing board.

I have been searching for tires that will work. Between sizes that don't match, models out of stock or out of production, and the 18" wheel size, the selection is quite limited. It came down to BF Goodrich Rival S and Nitto 555s, then I found the Nitto INVO Luxury High Performance Tires. These things look really cool, and seem to check all the boxes I wanted. I had to drop back to a 295 rear tire, they don't make a 315 except in full-on racing tires. Still should be a great looking tire on this car. I ordered up a set of those. Pictures will follow when I get them. Have any of you tried this tire? The full set, mounted, balanced, etc, cost right at $1250 from my local Discount Tire store.

I discovered that I had to take out the hinge system for the tilt front again. I discovered I had installed the hinge arms backwards from the way that 2BKing had designed the system. (I did it the way FFR designed them, which turned out to be wrong in this application.) I have assembled and disassembled this system so many times now (incorrectly!!), I think I can do it in my sleep! My own fault, I am still learning to read 2BKing's very technical drawings. All the information is there, I just need to catch it. I had to flip the shorter arms around so they point away from the FFR frame. I also had to exchange the longer arms left for right, then flip them around so that they, too were pointing away from the FFR Frame. By doing this, it moves both trusses more outboard, providing more clearance for the frame.

Here is the WRONG way to install the hinge arms for this application:



I will add a picture of the correct way to do it tomorrow. At the moment, it is almost 1am, and time for me to go to bed!

Morning Edit:

Ok, Good night sleep done. Here is the corrected attachment:



One other thing I decided to do while I had the hinges apart: I added one washer next to the head of the bolt. This took up just a bit of thread space and tightened up the "play" hinges. They still have all the motion they need, but they no longer have the wobble that was left because the nuts would not get quite tight enough to hold the hinges appropriately. They feel much more solid now. On to the next task: Actually attaching the truss mounting studs to the underside of the body!

[dallas_]

Looking good! Enjoying the detailed progress and photos.

[Jazzman]

I just realized that I need to get the body exactly where it will be attached permanently before I glue on the mounting studs to hold the trusses. I know the body currently sits 3/8" to 1/2" back from it's correct location. I am going to get bolts for the rear and cinch it up a bit there and see if that helps. I am debating drilling the holes for the roll bars to use those as marker locations. However, I want to use the 1.75" breeze bars, which I do not have. If I drill 1.5" holes to accommodate the stock FFR bar, then the hole will be too small when the larger bars arrive. If I drill 1.75" holes now, the bar will allow the body to sit back a bit. However, I can't really move forward until I get the body aligned, leveled, and screwed into it's final location. I think I will drill the 1.75" holes. I'm glad I am not on any particular deadline on this thing!!

[Jazzman]

Shouldn't the holes for the roll bars all be in a straight line? Here are two photos of the DS markings. First, the inboard hole, then the outboard hole. They look to be in the right place.





Now the PS markings. They look like they are too far forward: first inboard then outboard.





Am I loosing my mind or did FFR's hand slip when they made these markings?

[2bking]

There are several ways to verify if the markings are in the correct location. One easy way is to drill the center hole with a small drill bit and use a plumb bob to see if lines up on the roll bar mounts.

[Jazzman]

Today is my parents 56th wedding Anniversary. (Not bad, huh?!! There's a goal worth shooting for!) We had a big family get together this afternoon. Between that event and the surrounding honey-do's, time was limited in the shop today. I am trying to get the body/tilt system interface far enough along that I can remove the body from the frame and continue work on both pieces independently. My son and his fiancé will be here for two more days, and I need the extra hands to get the body off the car easily.

Hmmm. I can't seem to attach photos. I think I need to log out and come back in. Back soon!!

Edit:
Hmmm. Computer problems continue. I think I will re-address this problem in the morning.

[Jazzman]

Ok, computer problems fixed. I left off trying to get the trusses attached to the body solidly enough to remove the body from the frame so that I can work on the underside. I have made progress, but it looks unlikely that I will be far enough to get the body off before my son and his fiancé go home. Over the weekend, I drilled holes in the body and temporarily attached the attachment studs that hold the trusses to the body. As soon as I did, the whole system stiffened up and really seems to fit well.










I finished out the weekend by starting to sand and fit the "old hood" into it's traditional location. after a bit of sanding and measuring, it fits rather well. I then drilled four bolt holes to hold it in position while I put a temporary layer of fiberglass and resin over the outside seam. This is only done to hold the "old hood" in place while I work on glassing in the underside. I had hoped to get this temporary attachment done this weekend, but it was not to be.



I then decided that it would be prudent to fit the windshield to the body/frame to see if I like the way the cut line will look after the body is separated from the hood. I began by re-measuring the marked placed for the windshield. As with the roll bar holes, these two holes are not equally spaced forward of the rolled edge above the dash board. Rather than cut and make a mistake, I decided to wait and haul the windshield down and measure against the actual part. I ran out of time before I was able to get the windshield down from upstairs where it is stored.

[Jazzman]

A few of you may actually have all the knowledge and skills necessary to do one of these projects and any mods you desire. But if you are guy like me, we know we do not build alone. We depend heavily our friends on this forum, as well as local friends who have special skills. This evening, I spent four hours with a very close friend of mine who demonstrated his skills using computer aided design and a mill. By profession, my friend Todd is a mold maker. This means that he creates molds that form plastic pieces used in many industries, but primarily in the medical industry. He showed me parts that he has created molds for that are smaller than a grain of rice, have holes in them smaller than a human hair, and are inserted next to your heart! (I have no idea why you would want that, and I know I really don't want to find out, it still is very impressive!! He is a true master machinist. The two little pieces I need are far below his skill level, but he was kind enough to mill them for me, and let me watch him do it. It was fascinating! I took several short videos (which I have not yet figured out how to upload!) but here are several photos of the process.







The completed parts are amazing! The only thing we did wrong is that the pivot hole is a few thousandths of an inch too small. He is going to take them back and correct the hole size. Thanks, Todd, for all your help!

[Jazzman]

Ok all you builders from more northern climes, today is your day to gloat! That photo shows that the temperature here in sunny Scottsdale is 120 degrees! It's not the all time record, but it only misses it by 2 degrees. (yes, I endured that day also!!) Is it any wonder that I am hiding in my garage? Of course it helps that I added an air conditioner last summer, and I keep it a comfortable 79 in there!

When I was at the Huntington Beach show, I saw lots of cars using the CNC aluminum brake/clutch reservoirs. They look so nice. I had decided to save a buck or two and just use two of the FFR Reservoirs since I already had one of them. Then I talked to the folks at Wilwood brakes. They strongly encouraged me to use three reservoirs, one for each of the master cylinders. (2 brake, one clutch). After they showed me a really slick way to connect them and use much smaller brake line to connect them to each master cylinder, I knew I just wanted to get the CNC reservoirs. Oh well it's only money. So I ordered up this beauty:



Wilwood suggested I use stainless brake lines to connect the reservoirs to the master cylinders. They were even kind enough to provide the fittings to do it.



The braided stainless lines are on order, should be here mid week. I made a new aluminum piece to attach it to the frame. Nothing too exciting. Flat plate with six holes. I have it in the powder coating box. I was a bit disappointed that only the top was nicely polished. I can fix that. I have some new polishing pieces on order from McMaster for my di-grinder.

I am trying to get the brake system all buttoned up, the system bled, and the entire suspension system triple checked. I am going to re-torque every nut to be sure it is all ready to go. I already ordered Wilwood brake fluid. It was delivered Friday. All this work around the suspension and brakes is because tomorrow I will pick up the new shoes!! Late last week Discount Tire called to tell me that my Nitto INVO tires had arrived. I took the wheels over on Thursday, but they could not get the tires installed till Friday. Friday morning they called to tell me they had experienced the challenge with the valve stems that others have talked about. They quickly figured out what they needed, but they wouldn't have them til Monday. No problem. Saw the tires . . . they are amazing looking!! My only minor complaint is that they don't make a 315. 295 is as wide as they go. They look good anyway. I just can't wait to see them installed. When I do, you will too!

[Jazzman]

This was a very exciting day!! The goal today was to bleed the brakes and install the wheels/tires. I began with a couple of obsessive things, but I am glad that I did. I decided to replace the screws on the top of the CNC reservoirs with stainless steel button heads. Yes, I know it is entirely anal-retentive. Yes, I know the original slotted screws would work just fine. But they look so much nicer!!



I opened up the reservoirs to replace the screws, and to my surprise, I discovered this little piece of shmutz in the bottom of one of the reservoirs.



I am glad that I checked that they were clean before I started filling them up with fluid. This might have clogged up my brake lines but good! After cleaning thoroughly, I put everything back together. I marked each reservoir with a sharpie just to keep me from messing up. I will ultimately have each cap engraved with it's purpose.



For those of you with loads of automotive experience, please do not laugh at the following insight: I am glad I decided to use two separate brake reservoirs for the added safety factor. FFR's instructed design is adequate, simple, and cost effective. However, if any one of the brakes begin to leak, all four will lose pressure simultaneously. However, by using two separate reservoirs, one for the front brakes and one for the back brakes, each set has its own separate circuit. If one brake begins to leak, only that circuit will be compromised.

I really appreciate how Wilwood has helped me to set up a really clean and neat installation. The reservoir lines are nice and tightly packed together in the engine compartment, and the lines take up very little space in the DS footbox. It really makes it easier to do everything necessary in that tight space.





I also found that the simplest way to route the flexible brake lines to the calipers was to point the 45 degree fitting on each caliper downward. By doing this, it keeps the flexible line in a nice, smooth, "S" curve, and it doesn't interfere with the shocks or the wheels.

[Jazzman]

The next step was to actually bleed the brakes. I have borrowed an air powered vacuum bleeder from a friend of mine. It is an amazing tool that makes bleeding the brakes really easy. Just attach the hose to the bleeder nipple, open the nipple a little, turn on the vacuum, and it sucks the brake fluid right through the lines. I have a case of six bottles of Wilwood 570 degree DOT 3 racing brake fluid. Should be enough. Simple, right? Yes, but first you have to get ready to actually pull the fluid through.

I found a note in the box of brake fluid that all the brake line fittings should be installed using blue Loctite on the threads. Somehow, I had missed that fact when I first installed the brake lines. Oh well, I methodically began at the reservoirs, removed each fitting, added Blue Loctite, and put them back together again. Simple enough on the front brakes, everything is accessible. However, the rear brake line fittings are all way up under the rear suspension, very difficult to get to. I reinstalled all the fittings I could get to, but decided to forego the connections way up high under the trunk floor. You remember the trunk floor, the one that I riveted in with not quite a thousand rivets a while back? Yeah, that one, the one that would have made is so easy to get to those fittings. But hey, I tightened everything when I put it together, it should be fine, right? Lesson: DO NOT RIVET IN THE TRUNK FLOOR UNTIL YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER CHOICE!! ACCESS UNDER THERE WOULD BE AWFULLY NICE!

Instructions say to bleed the farthest brake first, in my case, the rear PS. So I fill the "rear" reservoir. Good news, no leaks seen. Now, get yourself fully distracted by the other people that are working in your shop with you. Your dad will ask for help with his wood cutting project. No problem. Go do that. Your son the Hewlett Packard service tech offers to update your printer firmware. It was a very generous offer. Of course you accept. Get him a network cable. Go get a bottle of water to cool down. Have a conversation with your mom and wife, confirm that they are going to shopping. Ok. What were you doing? Oh yes, the brakes. You go back to that project, only to find a 3 foot long puddle of brake fluid under the PS rear brake line! How did that get there? You weren't even trying to bleed the lines! Oh yes, your old nemesis, gravity! I guess the good news is that you know the fluid actually does come through the lines.

Now you have to clean up all that brake fluid. That stuff must be toxic waste! It etched the powder coating on some of the parts it dripped from, and took the first layer of dirt and grease off my epoxied floor. By now even an idiot like me realizes that I have a serious leak somewhere, but where. Oh yes, those fittings in the rear that are really hard to get to. Ok, I give up. With the help of my brother in law, I climb under there, unscrew everything, add blue Loctite, and then tighten it all back up again. It still leaks. We do the whole process over again, and discover that the flare on one line is not quite matching up straight with the fitting. A bit of bending, a bit of scuffed knuckes, more blue Loctite, and all is sealed up. Bleed the brakes again. This time it all sealed up and the brakes are working.

The front brakes were much more simple. Fill the reservoir, use the vacuum bleeder, and they pretty much worked right away. I had a bit of leak, but then discovered that I had not quite tightened one of the nipples after I bled the caliper. Once that was take care of, I started testing the entire system by pushing the brake pedal. It works great. I will need to do some adjusting of the balancing bar later, but for now the bleeding is done.

EDIT: It took me three bottles of brake fluid to get the bleeding done. However, If you do not sacrifice most of one bottle to the floor, you might be able to do it with two. If you only use one reservoir, you should almost assuredly be able to do it with two.

I finally get to install the wheels and tires. Here are the Nitto Invo Tires:



The rears are 295's, the fronts are 255's. There just are very few matching sets of tires in the 18" size. The Nitto NT-01's and NT555's didn't have a matching set front and rear in the right sizes, and they are "Drag Radials" that I was warned would not have decent tread wear on the hot Arizona asphalt. The INVO's are the best combination I could find. They seem like really good tires, and the tread design is unique. Time will tell if they are an appropriate tire for this application.

I did a simple vertical alignment of the rear hub/brake rotor by using a level. I needed to tighten up the upper control arm fittings to bring the top of the tire toward the centerline of the car. However, I do not have a 1.5" open end box wrench. I improvised: I used a medium size "C" clamp, tightened it on the adjustment section of the upper control arm. About a turn and a half, and it was close enough for my purposes for now.

After installing all the wheels and tires, I have to say that this was one of the most exciting moments of the build. It really looks like it will be a car, and I did it!

[wareaglescott]

Exciting to see the progress! Nice work. Appreciate your description of lessons learned. They are going in my notes so hopefully I can learn from your frustrations and skip them myself!

[Jazzman]

By now you probably know that my level of respect and admiration for EdwardB is absolutely off the charts! Not only is he an amazing builder, a great teacher, but he is also a very kind individual. After my last post involving the use of Blue Loctite on the brake fittings, he sent me a private message about that practice. Here is what he said:

"Hi Kevin. Just read your post about finishing up and bleeding your brake lines. Rather than post in your build thread I'll send this PM. I'm a little surprised about your comments regarding using blue Loctite for the brake fittings. I've never heard of that before. Wilwood says to do that? On the flared fittings? At the very least, it should be on the threads only, and not on or near the flare itself. That's a 100% mechanical seal. The threads have nothing to do with the sealing on a flared fitting other than to hold the flare together. Adding Loctite could (I guess...) keep the threads from loosening, but should have nothing to do with the flared seal itself. Every instruction and practice I've even been involved in says use nothing on flared seals other than maybe lubricate them with a little brake fluid during assembly, which I typically do. The concerns are (as mentioned) it's a mechanical only seal and should seal accordingly, and you don't want anything in there to contaminate the brake fluid. The only place you should be using sealant on your brake fittings is for the NPT fittings going into the calipers and MC's. PST thread sealant from Loctite or Permatex (Loctite 37615 works well) is what should be used. Some guys use Teflon tape, but that's not generally recommended either. Of course Wilwood does talk about using Loctite on mounting bolts, but that's entirely different. Just thought I would share FWIW."

As usual, Paul is completely correct. I had all the various instructions stacked together about installing brake lines and bleeding them. I have FFR instructions, Wilwood instructions that came with the brake sets, Wilwood instructions that came with the bottles of brake fluid (similar, but slightly different), and the instructions that came with the CNC Reservoir Kit. After EdwardB's very thoughtful message, I went back and re-read all the instructions again to see if I had screwed up. It turns out it was NOT Wilwood that suggested this practice, it was the instructions from CNC, Inc., that came with the reservoir setup. Here is exactly what they wrote:

"Seal the threads on all fitting with Loctite thread sealant". (Singular word "fitting" is exactly as they wrote it. Probably a typo.)

Point of clarification: I only put Loctite on the threads, NOT on the flare area. I was very careful about that, because as EdwardB so accurately states, I didn't want to contaminate the brake fluid. However, in my ignorance, I was not aware that Loctite made a "thread sealant" that was different from the blue or red thread lock liquid. (And I am pretty sure you sure don't ever want red Loctite anywhere near a brake line!!)

So for the benefit of anyone reading my thread, I don't want you to make the same mistake that I have made. At least thus far, it does not seem to have done any damage, but this is always an exercise in learning, honesty, and transparency. Thank you, EdwardB, for adding one more item to my education list. I so appreciate your caring enough to educate me, and by extension, all of us.

[edwardb]

Thanks for the very generous comments. Happy to help. We're all learning, just at different stages. Sharing our learning (and hard knocks) is what makes this forum great. The CNC reservoirs also have NPT fittings, so it makes sense that their instructions say to use sealant on the threads.

[Jazzman]

I've gotten a little behind on my updates, so while I have some time, I decided to try to catch up. Over a week ago, I refocused on the Flip top. I began by rebuilding the body buck (yes, again!!) Remember when I cut the sheets of OSB board to make the actual body support panels? Well, I saved the other half of those sheets, the ones that should fit the top of the body. I attached these other sheets to create a "reverse body buck". This makes it possible to support the body when it is upside down, and place it at a reasonable working level. I had to modify the curves just a little bit. The body buck design is not an exact replica of the body.





I built some "T" supports to support the body at the door area. With the help of a bunch of my kids friends (yes, even though one son is now in San Diego, and the other one is married and moved out, their friends still congregate here. Lucky us!!) We turned the body upside down and got it on the buck. A bit of adjustment here and there, and it is ready to go (or so I thought!!)

[Jazzman]

Now that I can really see the trusses attached to the body, I wanted to be sure the locations are correct.



I began by measuring the distance of the front of the trusses from the front of the body. I knew there would be a bit of difference, but I was shocked to find there was 3/4" difference between the two sides! It's kind of hard to see due to the angle of these photos, but trust me, there is a significant difference.





Did I do something wrong? Did I miss some obvious clue that the trusses were not attached correctly? I went back through my entire construction process. The body was installed and fitted. It was attached at multiple points so I could not move. The trusses were fitted into the space with the body in place. They should support the body exactly where it should be supported. I finally decided to measure the fore/aft position of the trusses off of the back side of the headlight area. This prominent feature appears to be very symmetrical. It turns out that the trusses are exactly the same distance behind the headlight ring.





It turns out that everything was right where it should be. The body is not exactly the same shape left to right. I measured at the tips of the trusses where they come closest to the lower lip of the body. They are different, but not quite as much. After sighting over the trusses, the problem is simply that the body has a slightly different shape. It is not noticeable to the naked eye. You only discover it when you are trying to make things like trusses match.





After confirming all the locations, I rechecked that I had marked the correct locations for all the attachment disks on the body. I removed all the truss hardware, removed all the bolts and brackets, and packaged up all parts for powder coating. I have one more piece to weld to the trusses, then I will have to spend some time grinding and polishing before they will be ready for coating.

[Jazzman]

King had told me to glass the old hood to the body before I turned it over. I tried to simply bolt on the old hood and only lay glass on the inside. It turns out that King was right. I needed to turn the body back over and glass in the hood, then put the body upside down back on the reverse body buck. More kids were over again last night for a swim party, so with their help, off came the body from the buck and back on the floor, right side up. Last night before I went to bed I re-read all the instructions I could find, went over my notes from 2BKing and MikeInAtlanta, watched a couple of YouTube videos, and laid out all my materials. At 11:45pm, I decided I was too tired to start something this important. Off to bed.

This morning I got up rested and decided to attack my very first attempt at fiberglassing with Vinylester Resin. First, the tools for the job: A gallon of resin, the small bottle of MEKP Hardener (nasty stuff!), a mix and measure cup, a tin can with about 1" of acetone in it to store/clean the tools, a roller tool, a plastic plate, a disposable paint brush, and a tongue depressor stirring stick.



I cut 3" wide strips of fiberglass cloth for the three sides that I plan to glass in.



I donned the "bunny suit", a Tyvek coverall suit and pulled on the rubber gloves. This is sweaty outfit when it is over 90 degrees!!



I decided to make just a 4oz batch to see if I got the right working time. Because I had been told that this is nasty stuff, I sacrificed my comfort and opened up my nice cool garage to be sure get enough air flow. It is 95 degrees outside at 8am. Welcome to Arizona in the summer. The instructions say to use 10 drops of MEKP hardener for each oz of resin. After talking to MikeInAtlanta, and US Composites, they both encouraged me to reduce the hardener when temperatures are above 90 degrees. They said I could take it down to 50% of the recommended amount of hardener, but this would really slow the curing time. I decided to try an 80% mix: 8 drops of MEKP to each oz of resin. Lesson 1: the resin doesn't pour out of a gallon can very well when you only want 4oz. I made a small mess, but nothing too bad. I added 32 drops of MEKP (4oz x 8 drops each = 32 drops) Per instructions I mixed it for 2 minutes. Lesson 2: get a big clock in the shop. It is not a good idea to have to push the button on the iPhone to see what time it is with this stuff on your fingers!! After mixing for two minutes, I poured the material into the plastic plate. I have been told that leaving it in the mixing cup can speed up the curing time, so to slow the cure, keep it cooler by spreading it out a bit. I then used the paint brush to paint the resin on the body where the fiberglass would be placed. I laid down the pre-cut piece of fiberglass, then liberally painted resin on the top of the fiberglass to thoroughly saturate the fiberglass. Then the roller was used to spread it all out evenly and work out any bubbles. Sorry, no photos on this part of the process. I didn't have time or clean hands to take photos and still lay down the fiberglass and resin.

When it was all done, the 4oz of resin was just enough to install the three pieces of fiberglass along the sides and at the front of the old hood. In hindsight I would have felt more comfortable having a little left over, so 5 oz might have been a better idea. Since I didn't glass in the top of the old hood, I did not use any resin in this area. If you do, you should shoot for 6 oz of resin. However, I found that I was just about at the end of the working life of the catalyzed resin when I got through 4 oz. I might have gotten through 5, but six seems unlikely unless I seriously slow down the cure rate.

Here is the final product. Not real impressive, but certainly a good start.



I found that this stuff is not that hard to use. It doesn't stink as much as I expected. It's working time is short, so don't make up much more than about 4 oz at a time. It's full cure time is as yet unknown. As I write this, it is three hours from when the resin was mixed. The disposable paint brush is hard as a rock. The resin applied to the fiberglass is still somewhat tacky. I am not going to move the body back to the buck until I am absolutely sure the resin is completely cured. I'll let you know how long I wait.

[ncbuilder]

Are the fiberglass cloth pieces that you laid down , just a temporary job ? If this is going to be a permanent repair the red gel coat should have been ground completely off on the surface of the hood and the surface of the main body where the strips of cloth were placed.

[Jazzman]

Thank you, NCbuilder, for reminding me of what I forgot to post. You are right. This is just a temporary job. I intentionally did not sand off the red gelcoat because I want this to stick, but not stick too well. After I glass in the backside of this joint, then I will remove this single layer of glass on the outside, grind the area down to create a "valley" for the permanent glass layers, and then lay three or four layers of permanent fiberglass. Sorry I did not make that more clear in my original post. Thanks for watching out for me!!

[ncbuilder]

You are welcome ! I did not see anything about being temporary but I new I could have missed it. Good luck with your build, I have thoroughly enjoyed it.

[WIS89]

Jazz-

Still looking great! I also thought it to be pretty cool that your kids' friends stop in to help.

I admire your work, and your guts! Thanks for keeping us up to date.

Regards,

Steve