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Thread: Jazzman’s #8745 "Flip Top" Build

  1. #561
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i.e.427 View Post
    Congrats Kevin! One more step closer.

    BTW. Your roll bars go to the machine shop this week, sorry for the delay.

    i.e.427
    Thanks! That is great news. No worries for the delay. Didn't need them yet anyway!!
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  2. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    Do you have a code reader that allows you to check for DTCs? Probably a good idea after a couple run cycles to hook one up and see if anything is showing up. That is also give you an idea if the MIL is functioning properly.
    I don't, but a friend does. I will borrow it from him after the ignition issues are sorted out. Good idea. So far, no MIL light.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  3. #563
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    I don't, but a friend does. I will borrow it from him after the ignition issues are sorted out. Good idea. So far, no MIL light.
    With a custom computer controlled engine install like the Coyote, I agree it's a good idea to have a code reader. There will be inevitable DTC's. They're available for pretty cheap if all you want to do is read and clear codes. For now, you should be seeing the MIL quickly flash when ignition power is first applied to the PCM. That's to let you know the light is working.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    With a custom computer controlled engine install like the Coyote, I agree it's a good idea to have a code reader. There will be inevitable DTC's. They're available for pretty cheap if all you want to do is read and clear codes. For now, you should be seeing the MIL quickly flash when ignition power is first applied to the PCM. That's to let you know the light is working.
    That's good counsel. Thus far I haven't noticed the MIL flashing at all, but I haven't been looking there at startup either. When I next fire it up, I will look for it. Do you have a suggestion of a particular code reader that is appropriate? Are there any features that I should be sure to get, or any that are a waste of money? I might as well get one that is compatible with both my Roadster and my F150.

    Thanks!
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  5. #565
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    That's good counsel. Thus far I haven't noticed the MIL flashing at all, but I haven't been looking there at startup either. When I next fire it up, I will look for it. Do you have a suggestion of a particular code reader that is appropriate? Are there any features that I should be sure to get, or any that are a waste of money? I might as well get one that is compatible with both my Roadster and my F150.

    Thanks!
    For just the basic stuff like reading and clearing codes, there are many options. The 16-pin ODB2 portal is an industry standard. I have an Actron CP9125C that I picked up at Advance Auto sometime back. Seems well made and works fine. I see they're on sale right now ($39) so a pretty good deal. But there are other choices, some even cheaper.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  6. #566
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    Wired in the fuel cutoff switch tonight. I didn't want to do it until I was convinced that the engine worked. (one more thing to go wrong!!) Because of the size of the wires, it appears that the fuel wire in the coyote harness carries a significant number of amps. I decided to use a relay to set this up just to be sure that there was adequate power. It has taken me a while to wrap my head around how a relay works, so here is how I did this circuit through a four wire, 40 amp, relay: (Your colors could be different from mine, but the numbered locations on the back of the relay should be consistent. To find the location numbers, unplug the wires from the relay and look next to the metal pins on the relay.)

    The blue wire from the hot dot switch is the input signal from the switch to the relay. It is connected to the coyote pigtail wire marked "fuel pump relay output". This is where the signal starts coming into the switch and relay.
    The black wire from the Hot Dot switch is the switched output from the switch to the relay. This wire is connected to the red trigger input wire at location 85 on the relay.
    The large orange wire at location 30 on the relay is incoming 12v power from the switched bus bar. This is the power that actually ends up going to the fuel pump.
    The black wire from location 87 on the relay is the power output. This is connected to the wire that goes to the RF fuel relay wire and ultimately directly to the fuel pump.
    The blue wire from location 86 on the relay goes to ground

    I temporarily reconnected the ignition wires that I clipped yesterday to diagnose the ignition module problem. I then confirmed several things in the positive. #1: The RFID security system really does work. I tried to start the car but had left the RFID chips in my bedroom It would not start. #2: With the fuel pump cutoff switch in the out/off position, the engine will crank but no fuel gets there, thus it will not start. #3: When you push the fuel pump cutoff swithc to the in/on position, the engine starts right up. All in all, a successful evening.

    *****EDIT: The information here is correct, but don't do this until you read post 568. There is a better solution.
    Last edited by Jazzman; 12-30-2016 at 10:45 AM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  7. #567
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    Kevin-

    Congrats on resolving your start/fuel issue! I also looked at the hot dot start system. I am pleased that you like it.

    You've done some great work, and I have enjoyed following along!

    Happy New Year.

    Regards,

    Steve

  8. #568
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    I love this project because there is always something new to learn. Our mutual friend EdwardB sent me the following:

    That will work, as you confirmed. But it appears you've effectively taken the Coyote PDB out of the fuel pump power supply business. The relay and fusing it already has is now only energizing a relay coil. You've moved the heavy lifting of powering the fuel pump to the direct feed from your bus bar that doesn't have a fuse or circuit breaker. At least as I understand it. This is potentially dangerous.

    At the very least, I would recommend wiring the relay differently. The idea of a relay is to use a switch and low current voltage to trigger the relay to switch a high current voltage. Instead of having the on/off switch you've added on the Coyote +12V wire, I would recommend it's on the wire from your bus bar. Switch this voltage on/off to trigger the relay and complete the fuel pump circuit to the Coyote PDB. Like this:

    30 = Coyote +12V fuel pump power from PDB
    87 = Power wire to fuel pump
    85 = Switched power from bus bar
    86 = Ground

    Note that some relay diagrams will show 85 and 86 reversed from this (85 as ground, 86 as relay power) but I've wired both ways and haven't seen any difference.

    Having said that, I personally think you've added some unnecessary complication here. And I say that in the most positive, constructive way possible. I agree it makes sense to have a fuel pump switch. I put one in my build too. But you already have a fuel pump relay in the RF panel and the inertia switch, right? The purpose of that is to switch off the fuel pump should the inertia switch activate. I piggy backed on that circuit and just put a switch in one of the wires to the inertia switch. The manual switch does the same thing as the inertia switch. It breaks the ground to the fuel pump relay in the RF panel and in turn breaks the fuel pump wire connection. Simple and works perfectly. No additional wiring or relays necessary.

    My recommendation is that you don't need the added relay at all. That's assuming you have the intertia switch as I described. Putting an on/off switch in one of the wires to the intertia switch does exactly what you want (manually switch off the fuel pump) and doesn't disturb any of the other wires, have any impact on the Watson's Streetworks system you installed, or have any concerns with too much current on anything.


    EdwardB is right. His solution is simple, it's elegant, it works, and it does not introduce unnecessary complexity or remove safety features such as fused circuits. I am going to remove the unnecessary additional relay and break into the inertia switch line. Thanks Edwardb for the lesson in simplicity!
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  9. #569
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    I am slowly checking things off my punch list. Too much year end and family stuff. Oh well. There's no rush. I am still waiting for the replacement ignition module from Watson's Streetworks. Don't get me wrong, they are being great, but given the holidays, I am not expecting them to get it done in just week. Its sort of funny. Sometimes the car starts on cue, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I can turn it off, sometimes not! It's always exciting.

    I have been checking off small projects:

    I rewired the fuel cutoff switch as instructed, connecting it to the inertia switch. It works great.

    I did a very rudimentary wheel alignment. It won't stand up to a professional one, but both front wheels now point in essentially the same direction! It looks a bit more normal too.

    I fixed a minor fuel leak. One of the more difficult to reach fittings just above the rear PS wheel was not quite tight. With a bit of help from my beautiful assistant, we got it tightened up. Messy, but simple to fix.

    I removed the upper radiator hose, made a big mess, installed the stainless screws into the corrogated hose, and put it all back together. It was a chore, but does seem to work well. THANKS AGAIN, JEFF KLEINER!

    I confirmed that front spindle nuts and the rear axel nuts are torqued to specification.

    I loosened up all the DS header bolts. I had not been able to get one of the bolts screwed in. With the use of a mirror, I discovered that the entire header was ever so slightly rearward. It was not as difficult to loosen the bolts as I had expected. The heat cycles of the engine had allowed the header gasket to compress, functionally making the bolts just a bit loose. After getting the last bolt started in it's hole, I then retightened all the header bolts on both sides of the engine. Some on the PS were a bit loose as well. One more item for the routine maintenance checklist.

    I took the car off the jack stands and got it on solid terra firma. That was a nerve wracking job, but it got done. I am using a 1500lb motorcycle lift to raise and lower the car. For the most part it works great, but it has its limitations. It fits very nicely under the front to support the front 4" rail. It just barely is long enough to lift the frame and not hit the cross member of the flip top tilt system. It will clearly not be long enough to lift this way once the body is on. I first lowered the front of the car to the lowest setting on the jack stands. This still left the frame 10-12" in the air. The only way i had to get it down was to lift it from the side. The jack is long enough to reach the main frame, but not if side pipes are installed. I removed the side pipes. I carefully found the center of the weight of the car where the jack on the side would lift both front and back equally. After raising the car enough to get two of the jack stands out, i slowly lowered the wheels to the floor. I repeated the procedure on the other side. The full weight of the car is now sitting on the springs for the very first time. THe frame is currently about 5" off the floor. I will work on lowering it as soon as I find the correct tool to adjust the spring tension. (Yeah!! one more tool to buy!!)

    It may be a stretch to call it a "go cart" event, but I was able to back the car down the driveway and drive it back into the garage under it's own power.







    The alternator is certainly working well. I am surprised to see the volts this high when it is running. I don't know if it really is a problem, I just happened to notice it.



    The idle is very smooth, but this is what registers on the tach. I think I may have set it one notch too low.

    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  10. #570
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Great to see it sitting on it's feet!!! That is most certainly what can be called a go cart

    Regarding "the correct tool to adjust the spring tension." You should already have a couple of them at the end of your arms! Raise the car/side/end/corner so that the weight is off of the springs and the adjusting collars will turn by hand. FWIW, I do not tighten the collar setscrews and in fact remove them altogether because if you tighten them against the aluminum sleeve there is a good chance that the threads will get distorted which will make it very difficult to move the collars should you need to make future adjustments . With the weight of the car bearing on them they do not move (I've never had one change on any of the cars I've done).

    Congrats on your New Years milestone!

    Jeff

  11. #571
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    x2 on Jeff's comments regarding adjusting the coilovers. He beat me to it. My alternator voltage runs about the same as you're showing. I've heard from others seeing the same thing. This particular alternator seems to run a little high I guess (higher than the somewhat normal 14+) or maybe the Speedhut gauge registers a little high? I may check mine with another meter, but other than that just keep an eye on things. Your tach is a bit of a mystery. I doubt very much that's the right reading. You have the Speedhut calibration on .5 pulse per revolution (needle at 1,000 rpm during calibration)? How did you wire to the Coyote? As you sure you picked the signal wire and not the common lead? I have no idea how it would work if not wired to the signal lead. At some point you're going to want (need?) a long reach low profile floor jack. I've had this one for a couple years http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-l...ump-68050.html and it is holding up well. It's heavy, but moves around OK. I have a couple other floor jacks, but almost always use this one. Reaches the front cross member or the rear center section (perfect way to life the rear of the car) with the body on.

    Congrats on getting the build on its own feet! Looks great.
    Last edited by edwardb; 01-01-2017 at 09:39 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  12. #572
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Congrats on the go cart!
    I have the same low profile jack as Paul. Works great so far. I have had the car up on jack stands numerous times since first setting it down. I found to get it high enough to work under I have to sort of step it up. If I jack the front up to much the angle keeps me from being able to get the jack under the differential from the rear. My method is to jack the front part way and put the jack stands under the 4" tubes on their lowest setting. Then go to the rear and jack it all the way up for those jack stands at their highest setting. Then back to the front to move the front stands to their highest setting. Works good to get the car at a workable height. When I am done I just do the opposite procedure stepping down the front. A lift sure would be nice!
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
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  13. #573
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    Congrats Jazzman! Car looks good. Keep up the good work.
    1972 Corvette Stingray 350 c.i. Manual Steering & Brakes
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  14. #574
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    I am moving toward putting the body and hood back on the car before I send it off to be painted. I plan to do the underside of the body in bed liner since it won't be seen. I am leaning toward doing bed liner on the underside of the hood as well, but really haven't decided yet. The last time I did a lot of sanding and body work I turned the the entire garage into a pink disaster area. I am still cleaning out pink dust from nooks and crannies. This time, I put up a heavy plastic drop cloth all the way around the third bay in the garage. I moved the hood back into the my temporary sanding room. When I ordered my kit, I didn't have them cut out the openings. Generally it isn't very difficult. I copied and cut out the headlight opening template from the instruction manual. I traced out the area to be cut on the car, then just to be sure I had the right size, I measured the template against the headlight bucket. It turns out the template would have created an opening almost 1/4" too big. I cut 1/8" inside the line I had drawn, then used a file to sneak up on the right size. Now the bucket fits perfectly.



    I ordered up a pair of these beautiful high polished stainless steel side louvers. To mount them, I attached the perforated disc's I have used so many times before.



    (To clarify, the louvers look great. I was not referring to the masked man behind the camera. Sorry. I don't know who let him in!!) I went to mark their location on the inside of the hood, and discovered I have another issue:



    The bottom rearmost corner (remember the hood is upside down) conflicts with the structural rib I added. Hmmm. Two choices: trim the louvers, or trim the rib. I'm leaning toward trimming the rib. I already have some other fibreglass work to do on the inside of the hood, so this would be just one more. I'm going to sleep on this one.

    **** EDIT **** I'm glad I slept on it. I must have been tired! I forgot the hood was upside down, which means left side is PASSENGER side and Right side is DRIVER! I matched up the correct louver to the correct side, and what do you know, they fit just fine!! Whew! That would have been embarrasing!

    I turned to the hood latches. It is not easy to be as obsessive as I am. In today's installment, I am considering how I want them to look on the final product. Currently, the chrome lever on the outside of the hood sits proud of the hood surface by about 1/16". I am debating trying to create the right fit so that the lever will sit flush with the surface. I think it would look nice, but it also moves the latch toward the center of the car. This is exactly opposite of what really needs to happen. For now, I am just working to make the levers sit level. I want them to be appropriately fitted, but I don't want them to be too tight. I am thinking that there should be at least 1/16" between the edge of the lever and the edge of the hood. How thick are the multiple coats of primer, paint, and clear coat? Better check on that. I also decided to fill in the space at the top of the opening to fit the curve of the latch when it is closed. I cut a piece of thick plastic sheeting to protect the chrome latch lever, then filled the wide area at the top with HSRF. I will sand it down to flow smoothly into the lever.

    Last edited by Jazzman; 01-12-2017 at 08:18 PM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  15. #575
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    ...The bottom rearmost corner (remember the hood is upside down) conflicts with the structural rib I added. Hmmm. Two choices: trim the louvers, or trim the rib...
    Have you considered a third choice of moving the louvers forward enough to clear?

    Jeff

  16. #576
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Have you considered a third choice of moving the louvers forward enough to clear? Jeff
    Yes, I have. It will work, but the fins would not be centered in the opening. Not the worst thing, perhaps. Certainly worth considering. Thanks, Jeff.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  17. #577
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Oh, When you said you ordered without cutouts I assumed that you had not yet cut the openings for louver and could simply make them more forward.

    Jeff

  18. #578

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    Kevin, here are a few progress pictures of your roll bars. Should be able to pack them up and send them out in the next week or so. Your build is looking great!






    i.e.427

  19. #579
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i.e.427 View Post
    Kevin, here are a few progress pictures of your roll bars. Should be able to pack them up and send them out in the next week or so. Your build is looking great!
    i.e.427
    Sweet!! Thanks!
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  20. #580
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    I have been planning to put some sort of lights inside the engine compartment in case I have to work on the engine at night. I decide to put them on the ends of the hood trusses. I found some nice LED strip lights from Watson Speedworks that have 3M double sided tape on them. Simple installation. (Well sort of!) I put two layers of shrink tape over the wire where it would pass into the truss.



    The most difficult part of the process was fishing a wire through the lower channel of the truss. It is a single 3/4" channel, cut and bent to create one seamless channel. It does have two bends in it, and I suspect that the inside of the welds are not perfectly smooth. With a bit of work, the guide wire finally slid through.



    A bit of tape to hold the light wire to the fish wire, and it is ready to pull through.



    The light itself is simple to attach with the double sided tape already on the back side.



    I fitted a square square channel cap to the exit end of the truss. I had already drilled a small hole in the cap and put one layer of shrink wrap over the wire where it will pass through the cap.



    I haven't decided if I will put a switch somewhere on the car or install a mercury level switch to come on automatically when the hood is opened.
    Last edited by Jazzman; 01-05-2017 at 03:30 AM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  21. #581
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    Go cart!

    I finished a busy week with yet another milestone: First Go Cart! It was amazing. So powerful, so fast . . . and I didn't even get out of 3rd gear!! I had to keep it slow because I can only run around in my neighborhood. I got it up to 40 once, but quickly had to take it back down to turn a corner. No particular surprises. It does bring the neighbors out of their houses!! The brakes are not as powerful as I expected. Perhaps they just need to get bedded in.

    https://youtu.be/o9bqTiajSXM
    Last edited by Jazzman; 01-06-2017 at 10:16 PM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  22. #582

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    I finished a busy week with yet another milestone: First Go Cart! It was amazing. So powerful, so fast . . . and I didn't even get out of 3rd gear!! I had to keep it slow because I can only run around in my neighborhood. I got it up to 40 once, but quickly had to take it back down to turn a corner. No particular surprises. It does bring the neighbors out of their houses!! The brakes are not as powerful as I expected. Perhaps they just need to get bedded in.

    https://youtu.be/o9bqTiajSXM
    That's A Great Looking Go-Kart Jazzman!
    Congratuations From The Freezing South

  23. #583
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Congratulations! Looks and sounds great. Another big milestone in your build.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  24. #584
    2bking's Avatar
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    I know it was exhilarating driving what you built. Congratulations! It's always good when go-karting happens without a trail of something behind you and all systems work. I changed my master cylinders from .75 dia to .70 dia and got a 15% reduction in pedal effort and no noticeable pedal height change. My leg could tell the difference. I'm considering making another change to the .68 dia masters to gain another 5%.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  25. #585
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bking View Post
    I know it was exhilarating driving what you built. Congratulations! It's always good when go-karting happens without a trail of something behind you and all systems work. I changed my master cylinders from .75 dia to .70 dia and got a 15% reduction in pedal effort and no noticeable pedal height change. My leg could tell the difference. I'm considering making another change to the .68 dia masters to gain another 5%.
    I may have to do that. Did you change all three MC's to .70? The front brake MC is currently 0.75 and the rear brake MC is 0.625. The Clutch MC is surprisingly large: 1.12! That is larger than my memory thought it was when I was researching this from Forte almost a year ago, but there have been a lot of decisions and research since then! I am have to go back and review what others have done. If you have changed your MC's let me know what you did and how you like it.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  26. #586
    2bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    I may have to do that. Did you change all three MC's to .70? The front brake MC is currently 0.75 and the rear brake MC is 0.625. The Clutch MC is surprisingly large: 1.12! That is larger than my memory thought it was when I was researching this from Forte almost a year ago, but there have been a lot of decisions and research since then! I am have to go back and review what others have done. If you have changed your MC's let me know what you did and how you like it.
    I have the Wilwood upgrade brakes with 6 piston fronts and single piston rears. The kit came with a pair of .75 dia masters for the front/rear. You may not be so lucky as to be able to go down in diameter for both front and rear. I'm thinking .688 was the smallest Wilwood offered in the style master I am using. The clutch master is a different story. I built my own hydraulic clutch and have different piston sizes from what Forte offers. I would follow what Paul did for the clutch. Changing the master changes the release point on the clutch pedal and pedal effort. A higher release point will require more pedal effort and vise versa.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  27. #587
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    I installed the back wall of the cockpit yesterday. I had been stalling to be sure that all the wiring that I might want was complete in that area. I did re-route the wires to go to the license plate to clean it up just a bit. After this was done, I couldn't put off installing the back wall any longer. No particular drama. I found i missed a few holes, but it all went together pretty much as I had anticipated. Unfortunately, the last of my 1/8" drill bits broke just as I was drilling the final holes. Off to Home Depot again! (Glad I own stock in Home Depot! My own shopping alone should raise their earnings per share!!)



    I turned my attention to the emergency brake. It is a bit more loose than I would like, so I will have to adjust that the next time the car is high enough in the air to give me access to the fittings. I made one other minor change. What is different here?



    Because the driver inherently pulls the ebrake handle towards themselves, the lower nut that holds the handle on to the ebrake toothed piece was hitting, catching , and ultimately bending the tranny tunnel wall right at the edge of the opening for the ebrake. I took off the bolts that hold the handle on, drilled out the attachment holes, and installed the bolts with the nuts on the outboard side. This allows the head of the bolt, which is quite thin by comparison, to slide right by the tranny tunnel wall. If you haven't already figured this out, make this change before you have a transmission in that tunnel. It would have been much easier to do at that point!!

    I started the slow process of installing the Thermo-Tec Cool-It heat and sound protection matting in the cockpit. I began by double coating walls of the footbox that is nearest to the exhaust system. I won't feel any heat from that engine. (My wife was disappointed when she learned that she would not have a continuous supply of warm air in the winter! I may have to rethink a bit.) Perhaps some air vents like EdwardB installed. I am trying to not have seams in the mat material at the same place that there is a seam in the aluminum. I used silicone at every joint, but I am wanting the Cool-It Mat material to provide an extra layer water seal protection.

    Last edited by Jazzman; 01-08-2017 at 03:48 PM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  28. #588
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    More progress! Shouldn't be bulb seal on the back cockpit wall though. Only on the corners. Nothing between the trunk sides. With the carpet all the way to the top, it tucks behind the body roll and is usually a pretty tight fit. Pretty good chance it won't go together correctly with the added bulb seal.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  29. #589
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    More progress! Shouldn't be bulb seal on the back cockpit wall though. Only on the corners. Nothing between the trunk sides. With the carpet all the way to the top, it tucks behind the body roll and is usually a pretty tight fit. Pretty good chance it won't go together correctly with the added bulb seal.
    Interesting! I have had the body on and off several times with the bulb seal there, and it fit like I expected it to. If the bulb seal shouldn't be there, what keeps the back wall of the cockpit and the sides of the trunk from vibrating and squeaking against the inside of the body? Also, where does the bulb seal go if not there!! Thanks for the heads up. It is always appreciated.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  30. #590
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Bulb seal goes like so Kevin:



    Carpet runs a little long up the back wall and tucks over the top edge.

    Nice to talk to you today!

    Cheers,
    jeff

  31. #591
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Kevin, I've been following your well-written build thread for months and really enjoy the creativity and guts to do the flip front. Congrats on the successful go-kart with no sparks, flames, smoke, leaks, parts on the street or tow straps! It takes hundreds of things to go right for that go-kart to run. I hope to see you at Barrett-Jackson. You still have my cell#?
    Pete
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  32. #592
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    When I was about 12 years old, I had an experience which shaped my young life. I had to perform, solo, for the director of the world famous choir of which I was already a member. I had to prove that I was thoroughly prepared for an upcoming European tour. I was terrified to perform for him, The Master, by myself, with only a dispassionate pianist for company. The Master listened to my prepared works, asked me several questions, and nodded that he was done with me. I wasn't entirely sure of his thoughts about my skills, but I had passed his test. Several months later The Master bestowed upon me words that have echoed in my ears for 40 years: "He was the best prepared of anyone in the choir".

    Today I was honored with a visit from another master, this one of the automotive arts. Some months ago I began communicating with Jeff "Da Bat" Miller about the possibility of him putting the final touches on my own work of art. It turns out that Jeff had also been commissioned by FFR to paint the body of the '33 Hot Rod that FFR will be building during this years Barrett Jackson Auto Auction in Scottsdale. Jeff and his son left home at 3am today to deliver that work of rolling art to the FFR team at Westworld in Scottsdale. Since I live only minutes from the location of the worlds greatest collector car auction, "Da Master" graciously offered to stop by and review my work.

    I was both thrilled and petrified to accept his offer. I was pretty sure he was really coming to see if I had screwed up the project so badly that even he could not save it!! I can't blame him. A first timer who is either gutsy or crazy enough to chop the body in half?!! Healthy skepticism is to be expected. I wasn't sure what he would say. In my ignorance, had I done something that was either extremely difficult or expensive to fix, or had I neglected something utterly obvious that might reveal my inexperience? There was no way to know. I cleaned the shop, dusted the car, put everything in its place. There was nothing else to do but wait for Da Master's judgement.

    Jeff pulled up and I immediately knew he was a true artist. The '33 hotrod body sitting in his truck was amazing! He introduced me to his son and we moved into my shop. He first looked over the rolling chassis. He made a couple of minor suggestions that will help fit the body on the frame more easily. The dash needs to be trimmed down just a bit to the top frame, eliminating the small point at the PS end. He looked over the rest of the car. He made a suggestion to seal the fuel pump a bit more thoroughly, suggested I replace the gasket on the fuel inlet pipe because it was much easier to do now, and he had experienced leakage on the ones that came with the tank. He complimented my attention to detail. I'll take it!

    We moved on to examining the hood and the body sections. He asked me about my process of laying the fibreglass and resin. He asked me how many layers I had laid, if I had feathered it out, and how wide were my layers of glass. He looked at the body, examining the flange that I had created to support the hood structure. He made a few suggestions about how to trim the front and back rolls as the body flows down into the cockpit. He looked over my HSRF application. He made some suggestions to make installing the roll bars a bit easier. He was very thorough, but he was very kind and helpful.

    So did I pass? I guess so. He agreed to take on my project. He then spent a long time answering my questions. I had a list of 20 of them! He patiently answered every one. He was very candid about the fact that he is not a fan of customizers that do things to change the artistry already inherent in the original sculpture that is a classic automobile form. He did, however, agree that my work, while different from the the traditional, left the resulting sculpture of the body intact. I truly appreciated his candor. I was thoroughly impressed by his knowledge and his passion to do things the right way. He understood my passion to make this car very special. I am thrilled that this "rolling sculpture artist" has agreed to complete the body work and apply the finish to my creation. The start date is still a couple of months off, but that fits nicely into my own time line. Thank you, Jeff Miller, for taking time out of your busy schedule to come to see my work. I look forward to the day when I can deliver it into your hands for it's final journey to completion.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  33. #593
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    What type gasket did he recommend to use on the fuel tank? Do you have a part number and vendor?

  34. #594
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Jeff

  35. #595
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    What type gasket did he recommend to use on the fuel tank? Do you have a part number and vendor?
    The first seal is to add gasket seal to the fuel pump. He said to remove the wires from the fuel pump, then remove the retaining ring. Swing it up on top of the fuel lines. Apply some gasket maker seal around the edge of the fuel pump to seal around the gasket that is already there. Reinstall the fuel pump retaining ring. Let it dry. Because the tank and pump were already installed, I had to use a toungue depressor sliced in half to apply the gasket sealer around the edge of the pump. I clearly used a bit too much, so it squeezed out the side. I spread it around as a tertiary seal.



    The second improvement he suggested is the rubber grommet around the fuel fill pipe where the pipe enters the tank. It is easiest to do this before the tank is installed. Since I didn't do that, It is also easier to do before the body is on. He suggested using the stock Ford grommet. I looked on Tasca parts and I couldn't find the part. I will have to do some more digging to figure out the part number. I will let you know when I find it.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  36. #596
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    ...
    The second improvement he suggested is the rubber grommet around the fuel fill pipe where the pipe enters the tank. It is easiest to do this before the tank is installed. Since I didn't do that, It is also easier to do before the body is on. He suggested using the stock Ford grommet. I looked on Tasca parts and I couldn't find the part. I will have to do some more digging to figure out the part number. I will let you know when I find it.
    Mark has it:

    http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=273



    Cheers,
    Jeff

  37. #597
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    Barrett Jackson Auto Auction, Scottsdale, AZ

    The third week in January each year turns Scottsdale, AZ, into automotive heaven: The Barrett Jackson Auto Auction! 9 days, over 1500 cars to be auctioned of every conceivable size, style, age, and color. I am lucky enough to live only 4 miles from the venue. This year there is an added bonus: Factory Five is making a big presence at the show. They are building a 33 Hotrod during the show, and have their semi-truck full of toys on full display.





    Factory five is well represented on the auction block as well. The finest might be the '33 Hot Rod that was done in conjunction with Hot Rod Magazine a few years ago. (I am embarrased to say I was so mesmerized by the craftsmanship and stunning looks, I forgot to snap a photo of it! No matter, you can watch it be auctioned on Thursday afternoon. It is lot #773.1) There is also a highly customized Roadster challenge car going across the block. It is spectacular!









    There is so much more to see here. Keep your eyes glued to Velocity and the Discovery Channel this week. You might just see one of the Factory Fives, perhaps one or more of the FFR crew. A full week pass will allow me plenty of time to take in all the amazing cars. (No bidder pass, though!!) Its going to be a fun week!!

    (Note: After tonight's posts, it might be a while before I can post again. I am having Carpel Tunnel release surgery done on both wrists on Tuesday. My typing will be limited for a few days, and my work on the Roadster will be curtailed for a bit longer. This is another reason that I will have plenty of time to spend at the Barrett Jackson Auction: I can't do much of anything else!!)
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  38. #598
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    One of the many benefits of going to the Barrett Jackson is to draw inspiration from other master craftsmen. I have spent a good deal of time talking to Ryan Valin. You have seen his work in his own build thread. He was asked by FFR to come to the Barrett Jackson to talk to potential customers. He is incredibly friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful. I have spend time with FFR employees, Dan and Tony. Both are really great people! Just standing around chatting at the FFR display is both a joy and a learning experience!

    Having Factory Five's touring show here makes it possible for me to look closely at items on completed cars. I have been struggling with how to get the hood latches from the Daytona Coupe to look "right" on my build. As has happened before, I discovered I was overthinking it. Remember when I installed the attachment discs on the inside of the hood to hold the latches?



    I could not get the latches to fit closely enough to the inside of the hood to either allow enough room to attach to the mounting point on the footbox or to look "finished" on the outside of the hood. I looked at the actual part installed on the Coupe at the show. Here are photos of both sides:





    I was trying to hide the attachment bolts. They didn't even bother! Why should I?!! I removed the attachment discs from the inside of the hood, sanded the whole area smooth again, remarked the hole locations for the latches, and drilled holes for 8x32 bolts. I will put chrome or stainless steel bolts in when the final assembly is done. (there will be four bolts holding the latches in place, but I have only two holes drilled in the photos.)







    I pulled out the Tangent Driving lights to get the mounting holes drilled. I had previously had the mounting parts powder coated. It didn't take long to put the lights into their mounts. I attached the entire unit to the inside of the hood and centered it in the small oval hole below the air intake at the nose. Four holes later it was ready to be installed. (Ok, actually my drill bit moved a bit on one of the holes, so I had to do a bit of correction, but when the unit is installed with the included fender washers, those enlarged holes wont even been seen. At only 4" off the ground, I wasn't really worried about it anyway!!)



    I removed the lights and packed them away until it is time for final installation. I spend a bit of time filling and sanding the underside of the hood. I am not going to be too anal about it because it will be covered with rubberized bed liner, but I do want it to look like I cared about how it looks.
    Last edited by Jazzman; 01-16-2017 at 12:00 AM.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

    Roadster Frame Dolly Plan

  39. #599
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    Jazzman or Jeff or ?,

    The second improvement he suggested is the rubber grommet around the fuel fill pipe where the pipe enters the tank. It is easiest to do this before the tank is installed. Since I didn't do that, It is also easier to do before the body is on. He suggested using the stock Ford grommet. I looked on Tasca parts and I couldn't find the part. I will have to do some more digging to figure out the part number. I will let you know when I find it.
    A question regarding the tank seal. I am at the point in my build that I can still replace this pretty easy. Just curious why the suggestion? Does the one from FFR leak (gasoline or vapor via a tolerance issue) or does it not last as long as the OEM?

    thanks

  40. #600
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnew View Post
    ...Does the one from FFR leak (gasoline or vapor via a tolerance issue) or does it not last as long as the OEM?

    thanks
    Don't know what issues Kevin's might have had to prompt the suggestion from Jeff Miller to replace his but I've had no problems with the FFR supplied ones on cars I've done.

    Jeff

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