Standard vs. Wilwood brakes

[natehall37]

Hi Folks, I'm getting started dreaming up my kit and am looking for input on some things. Aside from the dimensions, has anybody noticed a markable difference in the performance of the two different (wildwood vs. standard) brake packages? I guess I'm looking for input from those who have driven both. I don't think I need extreme performance out of every little aspect of the roadster but I want to be sure to spend good money on good parts when warrented. As of now I'll be getting the 18'' wheels for my Roadster and understand that unsprung weight could be an issue. I guess that's my next question, is it with the 18'' wheels vs. the 17's?

[skullandbones]

I know you want to hear from the folks who have experienced both sets but I must tell you that the standard set (I'm thinking its the PBR 2 pots), IMO is just not adequate for the more extreme needs of these cars. I decided in the beginning to "upgrade to them" with slightly larger rotors. I've been a little disappointed when I took it to the track and on panic situations (if you drive the roadster long enough, panic stops will happen). For every day driving they are OK. BTW: I have the Wilwood pedals/MCs. I will be upgrading to the Wilwood 6 pot or Brembo 4 pot Mustang big kit upgrade as soon as I can swing it. I will admit that I have probably not maximized this setup as it does not have the most aggressive pads or even SS lines but I will be changing soon enough that I don't want to waste money that can go to a better system. So I am really driving defensively until that day comes. I'm using 17 inch Cobra R wheels. I am moving to 50 series in the back from the 40 series. I have 50 series scorpions in the front and the 40s on the rear just look too skinny (also there's the wheel well space). Don't like skinny side walls.

WEK.

[Bob Cowan]

I started out with standard Ford brakes, a dual MC (no booster), and some good pads. I found them to be easy to use, with excellent stopping power with minimal effort. At anything less than about 20mph or so, I had to be careful not to lock them up on a panic stop. IMO, a well set up and adjusted system using stock Ford parts will be more than enough for these light weight cars.

However, once I started racing, I quickly burned them up. If you're planning (or just considering) road racing, install the biggest baddest Wilwood brakes you can find. Expensive now, but cheaper later.

[CraigS]

For normal driving the Mustang stuff is more than adequate IF you optimize them. By that I mean two things. 1- Using the most aggressive pads available for ambient temperature braking. I have Hawk HPS front and HP+ rear. 2-Getting the front to rear balance right is crucial. I have staggered the pad compounds and also have bias adjustable CNC dual master cylinders. This works great for street and autocross. As Bob mentions it wouldn't work for more than a few laps on a track. There you need to get rid of tons of heat and that only happens w/ big, big brakes and cool air ducting.

[R Thomas]

Brakes are so much a matter of how you drive and what you do with the car. For instance if you drive a Mustang now and are happy with the brakes you'd be delighted with them on the kit, unless the kit is a track car. Remember when you read an article in a magazine that raves about parts its likely part of that rave comes from getting those parts for free or deeply discounted. This is not to say they aren't superior just measure your budget well. As to the 18" wheels it may be that the rubber in the tires contributes more to the weight than the wheels check those as well.

[Jeff Kleiner]

What Bob and Craig said. Remember, the Challenge Series cars all run OEM Mustang components on the track with upgraded pads.

Jeff

[walt mckenna]

This is one of those questions that have you asking yourself if you want to drive a tack with a sledgehammer or use something more appropriate for the task. If you to go car shows and want the Wow factor of huge calipers and rotors, then that is a good reason to go that route. If you just like cruising with the wife or an occasional HPDE event, then standard brakes will fill the bill. If you plan to race competitively, then a completely engineered package is in order.

I attend as many HPDE events as I can and I have never had a problem with brake fade or spongy pedal due to boiling fluid. I use Duralast Gold CMax Ceramic pads from Autozone. They are inexpensive, predictable, and combined with hydroboost, give me all the stopping power I have needed so far.

[natehall37]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess without having the car yet I'm not quite sure how I'll "use" the car. I think I like the idea of track days and auto cross though. If I buy the upgrade when I order my kit is there an offset in price? or do they just ship both brake setups?

[edwardb]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess without having the car yet I'm not quite sure how I'll "use" the car. I think I like the idea of track days and auto cross though. If I buy the upgrade when I order my kit is there an offset in price? or do they just ship both brake setups?

Nope you will only get one set. Whatever you order.

[Mike N]

Another thing to consider. The PBR (Mustang) calipers are floating calipers so you don't get the pad knock back that you often get with a fixed caliper like the Wilwoods. If you fit knock back springs and residual pressure valves it will take care of most of the knock back but with a solid axle trac loc rear end you will always get some due to axle end play. Once you get used to dabbing the brake pedal to take up the knock back before applying the brakes you'll be fine. This is not a problem on the track but can become a nuisance on the street.

I have the Mustang Cobra brakes on mine and with braided lines, carbotech pads, pedal pivot mod and decent rotors I think the brakes are very very good. You will not need more on the street and I have not been disappointed on the track either. More often that not when I have taken people out in the car they have been more impressed with the brakes than the acceleration. They expect the acceleration but not the braking. Having said that if I had the budget I would definitely upgrade the brakes to a Wilwood or other set up with more swept area.

[walt mckenna]

I was reminded recently about your question on 18" vs 17" wheels and would like to respond.

Concerning the weight issue, the FFR recommended tire size coupled with data from Tirerack would suggest that the 18's, with tires mounted, would weigh about 2# more then the 17's. For most of us, that would not be an issue.

The tire diameter between the two is also about the same, so wheel well clearance would be ok.

The problem for me appears when I think about the aspect ratio between the tires used on the 18's ( 30 & 35) vs the 17's (40 & 45). I have 17's and I run about 22 psi in the tires to help with the ride quality. I suspect that the 18's would have a harsher ride then the 17's unless the spring/shock combination is changed. Ride is a subjective thing and each of us has to decide what is acceptable. Food for thought as you make your decisions.

[thwrightstuff]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but can anyone tell me if I buy the base kit and ask to buy the base brake kit from the complete kit, will that base kit include everything I need to install it and fit to my 17" wheels?

[GTBradley]

I cant help with your question, but no need to apologize, I read the whole thing thinking it was current - good information.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Found the mustang calipers rotors more than adequate for quick street & AutoX with hawk pads & Wilwood master cylinders. If you are not racing or a heavy track day participant its easy to over think the issue. Wilwoods look a lot nicer but the Mustang brakes were designed for a performance car thats about 1/2 ton heavier.

[Gordon Levy]

The Mustang brake may be designed for a heavier car but they were not designed to be run non power assist and not for a car that is 52% rear weight biased. Then when you add assist to them, most of the time they are over boosted because the car is substantially lighter than the mustang. The Mustang brakes will work OK once set up well with proper master cylinder sizing, pedal mods or ratio calculations and pad upgrades. My Wilwood kits work right, first time out of the box with no future upgrading. It the grand scheme of your total build cost it isn't that costly an upgrade and in the many hundreds of sets I have sold over the years I have never had anyone regret the upgrade.

[CobraboyDR]

The Mustang brake may be designed for a heavier car but they were not designed to be run non power assist and not for a car that is 52% rear weight biased. Then when you add assist to them, most of the time they are over boosted because the car is substantially lighter than the mustang. The Mustang brakes will work OK once set up well with proper master cylinder sizing, pedal mods or ratio calculations and pad upgrades. My Wilwood kits work right, first time out of the box with no future upgrading. It the grand scheme of your total build cost it isn't that costly an upgrade and in the many hundreds of sets I have sold over the years I have never had anyone regret the upgrade.

Do your brakes work with 15" wheels?

[Gordon Levy]

I have kits that work with 15" wheels

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but can anyone tell me if I buy the base kit and ask to buy the base brake kit from the complete kit, will that base kit include everything I need to install it and fit to my 17" wheels?

FFR package will fit 17" wheels out of the box. Only changes I made was to go with Hawk Pads front & rear. Found no need for power brakes with stops under 100ft from 70mph with good pedal feel.

Only thing I would do different in my build would be to have installed power steering for AutoX. Also the current IRS is superior to the old system that was available when I bought the car so if I was building today would go with the Mustang IRS over the 3 link.

Not sure but you might have to buy the parts ala carte for the front end. There is a complete FFR rear kit with everything you need for the rear brakes but its for a better set of Mustang COBRA brakes over the standard GT brakes. Front end are standard Mustang GT brakes. You can most likely source them from a local auto store.

[BradCraig]

The Mustang brake may be designed for a heavier car but they were not designed to be run non power assist and not for a car that is 52% rear weight biased. Then when you add assist to them, most of the time they are over boosted because the car is substantially lighter than the mustang. The Mustang brakes will work OK once set up well with proper master cylinder sizing, pedal mods or ratio calculations and pad upgrades. My Wilwood kits work right, first time out of the box with no future upgrading. It the grand scheme of your total build cost it isn't that costly an upgrade and in the many hundreds of sets I have sold over the years I have never had anyone regret the upgrade.

Gordon,

What front and rear Willwood package are you selling for 2015+ IRS setups? I'm just now getting mine titled ad registered but I can already tell I may want to upgrade. We'll see once I get everything balanced and bedded....

Thanks,

B

[Gordon Levy]

I have 4 different kits for the front in 11.75, 13" and 14" depending on what wheels you are using and I have 3 different 4 piston rear from 12"-14" depending on wheel. Please feel free to call me and we can talk at length about the best set up for your car.

[NiceGuyEddie]

My Wilwood brakes stop the car absurdly well but I have pad knock-back issues with solid-mounted 4 Piston Wilwood rear brakes. I have an inline check valve but it didn't help. I have been wanting to try knock-back springs for a long time now.

Front pads are BP-20
Rear pads are Polymatrix E

I also have a set of Polymatrix E pads for the front, but there's a lot of brake dust.

(Compounds change a lot and those designations may no longer be available.)

I would do the Wilwood brakes again if the brakes are visible because they look really cool. I'd go with Mustang Brakes if I had wheels that covered the brakes.

[Hoooper]

My Wilwood brakes stop the car absurdly well but I have pad knock-back issues with solid-mounted 4 Piston Wilwood rear brakes. I have an inline check valve but it didn't help. I have been wanting to try knock-back springs for a long time now.

What rear axle setup are you running? Im starting to wonder if pad knock-back will be an issue with mine, though I would be surprised if the 2015 mustang knuckle and bearing arent up to the task of managing a car thats only 50-60% of the weight

[kobra01]

I was going to re-bleed my Wilwoods because I had to dab the brake pedal each time before applying the brakes to make them work well. So I guess pad knock-back is normal for a manual brake system?

[edwardb]

I was going to re-bleed my Wilwoods because I had to dab the brake pedal each time before applying the brakes to make them work well. So I guess pad knock-back is normal for a manual brake system?

I don't claim to be an expert on the subject by any means. But with many miles on four different builds with both solid axle and IRS, Wilwood and Mustang brakes, power and manual, no knock-back for my street driving. All have hard pedals when first pushed. So while it happens, I wouldn't say it's normal or something you have to accept. Mainly it seems to be an issue with track driven cars, and when you read the reasons for knock-back, that makes sense.

[Gordon Levy]

Knock back can be an issue on live axle cars but mostly it is the result of a warn out posi or miss shimmed posi. IRS systems don't have the issue at all unless the axle nut is coming loose. The cure is to rebuild or reshim the posi to 0 axle play. On a live axle car it isn't an issue with a torsen or eaton planetary carrier as the gear pull the axles in tight.
We have never had any knock back issues on any or our street or race cars,

[Avalanche325]

I have the FFR supplied Wilwoods with the single piston rears on a Moser 3-link. Never had a knock-back issue. I street, autocross ad track my car.

[Ducky2009]

I used the supplied stock 2 piston front Mustang calipers and purchased the equivalent single piston Mustang calipers. I do drive aggressively on occasion and did not like their performance. Drove in jell coat for 500 miles. Took the body off for paint and added power (vacuum) brakes at that time. If you plan to track, I'd go with the Wilwoods. IMO Constant acceleration and braking would most likely cause the stock ones to over heat and possible fail.