Front wheel sticks out of body adjust control arms?

[mrmrules]

Hey guys I just picked up a mk3 that needs some finishing. I noticed that the front wheels stick out of the wheel wells a bit. On one side about 1/2 inch and on the other side its somewhat flush with the edge of the wheel well. I would like to have the wheels inside so I can lower it without worrying about hitting a bump and sending the tire smashing into the fender. Here is a pic of my set up. I know I have some work to do to align the front of the body a bit more to get it even but how can I bring both these wheels inward? I saw that where the lower control arm bolts to the frame there are 2 different holes. Its currently on the outer hole. Can I move the lower A arm in by using the inner most hole on the frame? Thanks!

FSusp16.JPGFSusp17.JPG

[Gordon Levy]

Adjust the upper control arms in. You currently have pos camber. The wheels will pull in as you adjust for 0 to neg camber.

[mrmrules]

Thanks for the response Gordon. I allready adjusted to negative camber and its still just too far out. I have a 275/40/17 tire on a 17X9 (94-04) mustang wheel. Are there shorter lower A arms to solve this or can I mount the a arms on the inner bolt hole? Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

The 275 tire is to big for 9" wheel. You would be better off with a 255. This has been covered many many times. Mounting to the inner holes will not make the car feel real well.

[Gordon Levy]

The other question is what Mustang wheel? 24mm or 15mm offset?

[mrmrules]

Unfortunatly I bought the car with this set up and I agree that the tire is too big for the wheel. Im working with what I have for now before I have to buy smaller tires as a last resort. How can I tell on the wheel will it be stamped 24 or 15mm on the back? Thanks

[mrmrules]

Would pin drive width lower control arms solve this issue it looks like they are 2" shorter. I will go out and look to see if I can see anything stamped in the wheel indicating the offset.

[Gordon Levy]

Give me a call tomorrow and we can talk over these issues. There is a lot to go over. For every action there is a reaction and not all are good.

[mrmrules]

I will do. Thanks a ton

[skullandbones]

You will need the info on the off set so lay the wheel face down and put a straight edge on the back side but make sure it clears the side walls of the tires. Then measure from the back of the wheel where the hub articulates with it and measure up to the straight edge.

Good luck,

WEK.

[mrmrules]

I will pop the tire off and measure it like you mentioned tomorrow thanks!

[Jeff Kleiner]

The inner set of LCA mounting holes are for donor arms. I can not tell for sure from your photos whether you have 1994/1995 spindles or 1996 and later versions. The 1996 and later ones set the tire and wheel approximately 3/8" farther outward than '94/'95 and can be identified by their straight steering arm vs. the dogleg arm as shown here:



Even the 255 or 245 tire on a 9" wheel can wind up past the body with the wider '96 spindles. As Gordon said 275s don't fit well in either case.

As an aside I see that you have Bilstein coilovers. There was a problem with them failing and an upgrade was instituted. Check the diameter of the shafts---if they are 11 mm the upgrade has not been done and if 14 mm it has been. If not you need to send them to Bilstein for the rework. Let me know if you need the info on how to do so.

Cheers,
Jeff

[CraigS]

Lets back up a minute. You said "On one side about 1/2 inch and on the other side its somewhat flush with the edge of the wheel well." This is a body alignment problem not a suspension problem. Move the body over by bending the front supports a small amount, approximately 1/4 inch. I see your pictures w/o the body on. DO you have any pics w/ the body on and the car on the ground? Whether you have the engine in or not, adjust the coil over collars so the 4 inch frame tubes are 4 inches from the floor. A little bit of adjusting to negative camber will get you clearance for 275s as long as the wheel offset is correct. This is the correct wheel
http://www.americanmuscle.com/buwh1-9404.html
I have been running this wheel w/ 275s since 2007 so it is definitely possible. I prefer to use back spacing because I can measure it rather than offset.

[mrmrules]

Thanks for all the info guys. I need to get a low profile jack to lift this car up as my current jack is too tall to measure the offset of the wheels. I will get one today.

I climbed underneath and saw that I have the 94-95 style spindels.

I agree that the body has to be adjusted some but even when it is the wheels still wont sit under the fenders as one is currently flush and the other is out about 7/8 inch I just measured it originally I guessed at about 1/2 inch. So if I split the difference it still means the flush one is now outside along with the other one.

I would love the info how to upgrade the shocks Jeff thanks.

I measured from the ground to the 4" tubes its about 4.75 inches

I dug through the recipts the prior owner gave me and found that the wheels were ordered through American Muscle.com they are the same ones as Craig mentioned just black.

If I lower the car a bit and the suspention moves upward will that have any effect on bringing the wheel inward at all? I noticed that the rear suspention is really low and the front seems high. I think I need to make some suspention adjustments to get this to sit a bit more level?

Oh and dont mind the dirty pics I have been driving this car every day since I got it I love it and have not cleaned it yet but I will I promise!


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[Gordon Levy]

add some more neg camber. It looks like you are close to 0. For every degree neg the top of the tire will move in about 3/4".

[6t8dart]

Just my opinion, I saw you have the 94-94 like I do, my upper control arms are on the inner holes, my mustang lower are also on the inner holes. This is what FFR recommends for my MKIV. I suspect that possibly setting your uppers to the inner holes, going to a smaller tire, and having it aligned to a little negative camber might help. And I also agree that your body may be off by about 3/8 to one side. Please don't take my word as anything other than an opinion, there are some pretty experienced people out there that know way more than I do. You also might want to get ahold of a build manual for you exact model and see what it recommends.

[edwardb]

I noticed that the front wheels stick out of the wheel wells a bit. I know I have some work to do to align the front of the body a bit more to get it even...

Don't align the body to the tires. Only adjust the body to the chassis. Pick the same point on the suspension on each side -- I use the upper shock mount -- and measure to the lip of the body. Make sure that dimension is the same on both sides. If the tires are showing different exposures from side-to-side, that could be from a number things including alignment as already discussed. But don't try to fix that by moving the body.

Based on your picture, the height of the tire in the wheel well doesn't look all the bad. What you need to be adjusting is ride height, changed by turning the coil-overs. It may or may not change what you're seeing. Measure the ride height from the ground to the underside of the 4 inch chassis tubes. Most guys are in the 4 to 4-1/4 inch range in the front, and 4-1/2 to 5 inches in the back.

[mrmrules]

Got a low pro jack at harbor freight for $60 its pretty neat we will see how long it lasts though! I got the front tire off. I measured from the face of the rim to the back of where it sits against the rotor and it was 4.25" distance. So the wheel lip sits out 4.25" from the rotor. Is this the correct backspacing I need? The tire sticks out an additional 1/2 beyond the face of the rim lip. So we are talking about 4.75" tire edge from rotor face. I can tell the body is off from the top frame rails its more to the driver side and needs to be centered either way. I will make some adjustments to get the car sitting 4 - 4.25 in the front and 4.5 - 5 in the rear and will update. Thanks everyone for the help!

[edwardb]

I can tell the body is off from the top frame rails its more to the driver side and needs to be centered either way.

If you're talking about the 3/4 inch tubes under the hood opening sides, don't go by those. For the Mk3, not unusual that they don't exactly align with the hood opening. Measure as I described earlier, and align with that.

[mrmrules]

Ok will do thanks Ed.

[CraigS]

This is how I measured back space on one of my wheels. 6.0 inches.

[skullandbones]

I measured the tire/wheel/fender relationship on mine which has the worst of the Mustang strut spindle options (2000GT). I guess mine is 8 mm wider per side than yours. I also have mine in the inner holes not just to hide the wheels though. The primary reason was to improve my SAI with those spindles and wheels, I had to do what I did. My wheels are Cobra R. I think the back set is 6 inches. So you can get an idea of how they would probably look with wider tires. Those 275s sound huge. Mine are 225/55/17 (8 inches of tread). When I measure mine it is 3/8 in on right bottom and 5/8 in on the left bottom from the vertical edge of the fender. Since I have 1/2 degree of negative camber, the upper edges of the side walls are 5/16 in more so the suspension is symmetrical but the body is off a little to the driver's side. You can put your finger between the side pipe on both sides and tell just a little difference. However, no one has ever said, I can tell you body is too far one way or the other. You may be OK with a little more negative camber as mentioned above. At least, the tread should be hidden. I love the way mine tucks under the fender. BTW, this is not one of the more easy fixes when your build is off a little. Some have struggled with it.

Good luck,

WEK.

[mrmrules]

Guys thanks for all the help and ideas. The backspacing on the wheels is 6 inches measured by how craig showed me in his post. I did alot of adjusting today spent the better part of the day working under it. Got everything to where I am happy. It tucks the tire well now and sits just about 4 inches high in the front. I got the alignment and camber to where they look good. I will bring it to have it aligned when I have time next week. I also adjusted the rear because it was really low. It has a stock mustang spring set up back there so I turned it a bit. I think my next upgrade is going to be some rear suspention. There are small p clamps that held the spring from turning in the rear they were kinda cheap I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for upgraded p clamps I was going to take a ride to lowes or home depot tonight to see if they had anything of them in stock. Thanks again everyone for the advice I am happy and will post pics tomorrow it looks great!

[CraigS]

Glad you got it worked out. When you decide to upgrade the rear, look at Breeze QA1s
http://www.breezeautomotive.com/home.php?cat_id=35

[scott524]

This comment may be too late, but ill post anyway. I had the same issue on my Mark 3. I installed the Pin and drive setup (new lower control arms and upper ball joint lug) from FFR which moves everything in about 1.5 inches. Worked great, and was cheaper than buying a new set of wheels.

[AC Bill]

I thought it was a given, that the MKIII body has one fender, when measured from hood opening to fender edge, slightly wider than the other side was.
I read numerous threads on that back in the day, and that it stemmed from the body mold issue.