Question on setting camber

[Triathletedave]

Took my 818 in for an alignment, and the tech ( very experienced with FFR cars) says that the front-side upper control arm adjusting bolts are both too long to get the camber down to -0.5. I believe that the longer sleeves were on the front side, and the shorter ones on the back side. The rear set seems fine for adjustment range, but the fronts are too long.

Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you resolve it? The tech here suggests simply cutting 1/2" off of each bolt to create the extra space needed to reach a camber of -0.5. Is this a good idea or not?

Regards,

Dave

[RM1SepEx]

I had to trim the longer bolt a few threads on the passenger side. I set mine at -1.0

It comes down to a variety of adjustments, I have STI aluminum arms and they add a bit of caster due to their geometry. How much caster did you get?

[Triathletedave]

Got to -0.3 on the passenger side, and 0.1 on the drivers side. Not a lot of change needed. I'm hoping that shortening the bolts a wee bit will be enough.

[Tamra]

We cut the bolts quite a bit to get to -2 in the front.

[tmoretta]

If you are talking minus numbers, you must be talking camber - right? You always want positive caster.

[Tamra]

Yes, we were discussing camber. The upper control arm bolts are too long to get very much negative camber unless you cut them shorter.

[Hindsight]

What length is needed on the upper bolts to get the desired camber?

[RM1SepEx]

It depends... as you adjust each arm's length you adjust caster and camber at the same time. I got 3 degrees of caster and -1 degree camber with a 3-4 thread cut of the longer bolt and the 1.1 in IIRC cut of the shorter one (FFR specified length) I have the older, angled ball joints. I only had to cut the stud on the longer arm on the passenger side. The driver's side went into my desired settings w/o cutting the stud on the longer sleeved arm.

It just takes time playing with the lengths as each change effects the other settings too

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What length is needed on the upper bolts to get the desired camber?

Page 101 in latest manual. The bottom of this drawing is the front of the car.
SAFETY After alignment, make sure adequate thread engagement on the end of each tube.

[Hindsight]

Thanks!

[philly15]

I cut both sleeves, and with a 12mm lower control arm spacer, I was able to get up to almost -5.0 degrees each side and around 7 degrees of caster. I adjusted back from there. So there is a large amount of adjustment in those sleeves for cutting.

[tmoretta]

Looking at the diagram: does the flat face of the upper ball joint have to remain parallel to the pivot shaft? When I adjust for extra pos. caster the two are no longer parallel. Is this a problem?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Looking at the diagram: does the flat face of the upper ball joint have to remain parallel to the pivot shaft? When I adjust for extra pos. caster the two are no longer parallel. Is this a problem?

That is not a problem at all.

NOTE: you should have the 4 7/16" bolts snug (not tight ) while you are adjusting the threaded tubes. Then tighten when done.

SAFETY Before driving, make sure adequate thread engagement on the end of each tube. I try for one standard nut thickness of engaged thread for steel, more for aluminum.
Bob

[tmoretta]

Thanks.

[tmoretta]

What is the lower control arm spacer? Where do you source it? Function? Would it help solve my tramlining problem? My 818S has very unsteady steering.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What is the lower control arm spacer? Where do you source it? Function? Would it help solve my tramlining problem? My 818S has very unsteady steering.

I think your talking about the spacer that gives you more caster.
The spacer only works with aluminum LCA's.
Here is a picture.

JD-FCM01.jpg

I don't know if the spacer has anything to do with you tramlining problem.
My 818 has VERY responsive steering. I haven't noticed any tramlining.
Are you driving on country roads with wheel ruts?
Does the problem occur on flat highways?

I was driving down a road with construction and with a 2" difference in black top between lanes.
When changing lanes the step up jerked my hands.
Bob

[Tamra]

what size front tires are you running? Wide sticky tires will follow the road more than narrow tires.

[tmoretta]

I am running Dunlop Direzza 215 40 17". Problem is evident on all but the smoothest paved roads. Any small change in the road crown or dip etc. requires some correction in steering. Very frustrating and does not inspire confidence. I cannot imagine driving at 120 mph on the strait at Lime Rock Park.

[STiPWRD]

I am running Dunlop Direzza 215 40 17". Problem is evident on all but the smoothest paved roads. Any small change in the road crown or dip etc. requires some correction in steering. Very frustrating and does not inspire confidence. I cannot imagine driving at 120 mph on the strait at Lime Rock Park.

Just checking, but what is your toe angle on the front wheels? And has it been aligned or just eye-balled? The first time I go-karted I had very twitchy steering as well but that went away after I aligned the front toe.

[tmoretta]

The DIY front settings currently are: 3.3 deg. + caster, 1.7 deg. - camber, 5/32" total toe in. Rear are similar (less caster and camber), a little more toe.

[Tamra]

How did you measure your alignment? Do you have toe plates? Toe is really really touchy, so if you are off even a little bit it can create the issues you are describing. Are you 100% positive the toe is IN and not OUT? Have you considered bringing the car to a professional alignment shop?

[Joseph]

Page 101 in latest manual. The bottom of this drawing is the front of the car.
SAFETY After alignment, make sure adequate thread engagement on the end of each tube.

AAAH... what is this latest manual of which you speak. My 818C kit was delivered on October the 17th and this page is not in my manual that I can find. Do I need to order the manual on CD rom to get the latest version?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

AAAH... what is this latest manual of which you speak. My 818C kit was delivered on October the 17th and this page is not in my manual that I can find. Do I need to order the manual on CD rom to get the latest version?

The latest manual I know of is 1o (number one and a small letter o)
Call ffr and tell them you have a car and would like a link to the latest PDF manual.
Bob

[RM1SepEx]

Bob, 1o is an update, not the entire manual... the latest full manual that I have is 1i from 7-26-14

[tmoretta]

Car was prof. aligned when in go-cart stage. When complete and on the road is when I noticed the tramlining. I have since added caster and re-checked toe etc. Should be pretty close.

[Joseph]

Bob and Dan thank you much for the help. I have manual version 1m from November 2014. I will see the FFR people next weekend in Panama City and they can set me straight on how to stay current on the updates. I learn a lot from these forums. Thanks again for the help.

[STiPWRD]

Bob, 1o is an update, not the entire manual... the latest full manual that I have is 1i from 7-26-14

Dan, I've got the full manual pdf of 1O (released on March 2015).

tmoretta, have you tried backing off on the toe (from 5/32 to 1/4 or 0)? My tramlining issue was caused by having too much toe in, I think i set mine to about 1/8 to fix it. Also, what do you mean by DIY?

[Tamra]

Car was prof. aligned when in go-cart stage. When complete and on the road is when I noticed the tramlining. I have since added caster and re-checked toe etc. Should be pretty close.

If you want, we could drive out to where you live this weekend and check toe on your car (you're in eastern CT, right?). We have toe plates and have adjusted toe on our 818 frequently for different setups for racing. We'd be happy to help out, if you want.

[tmoretta]

I have accomplished most recent alignment myself (DIY). Very generous offer Tamra. Any time Sun. would be great. I will PM you.