Dougs MK4 Build

[dougski]

Hello all,
I have been working on the build for a couple of months now although repeating each step no less than three times slows me down a bit. If this continues it only seems fair that I get to list three builds on my profile when I am finished. My plan is to take the next couple of weeks and catch up on the posts. In addition to being my first build, this is my first post so feel free to set me straight if I need to do something differently.

I began putting my FFR order together early in the year. I was having trouble deciding on a few key options like rear suspension and seats when I decided to attend the Mott College build school. I highly recommend to anyone that is considering a build and having trouble getting off the starting block. The instructors are top notch with years of experience and many tips that will save time and money all along the build. The school also had most of the kit options on hand so that by the time I came home I had my order complete.



Here is what I ended up with:

• MKIV complete kit
• Powder coated chassis
• Set up for 351w
• Body cutouts
• IRS independent rear suspension
• 17” Halibrand replica wheels
• Wilwood brake upgrade

The next step was to visit Gordon Levy Raving in Arizona to get the engine and transmission on order. Gordon is active on many of the build threads that I had been following and at the time had built over 150 FFR cars. While I was there, he had several cars at various phases of the build process and a few completed cars. That added to the excitement because I can count the number of times on one hand that I have seen this type of car in my central California home town.

• Stage 5 408 with Dart block upgrade for 427cid
• MSD ignition system
• One wire alternator
• High torque starter
• Tremec T600RR
• 8-Stack EFI with FAST EZ 2.0 control system
• Levy Racing cooling system with built in oil cooler and support bar
• Levy Racing exhaust system

The last thing I wanted to include in this post is the list of options that I plan to include in the build.

• Alex's standard glove box
• Breeze 1.75” stainless roll bars for both driver side and passenger side
• Breeze offset steering rack mounting kit
• Breeze street performer seat install kit for both driver side and passenger side
• FFMetal trunk mounted battery box
• FFMetal 0.090” thick firewall
• Finish line front and rear quick jack grommets
• Finish line 427 side emblems
• Metco drive shaft loop
• Mike Forte seat heaters
• Mike Forte 351w hydraulic clutch kit
• Mike Forte CNC triple brake and clutch reservoirs
• Russ Thompson turn signal bezel
• Russ Thompson 1.75” roll bar grommets
• Russ Thompson gas pedal, dead pedal, and pedal pads
• Tangent Technologies driving light grill kit
• Local Tire shop Nitto NT555 255/40R17 front and NT555R 315/35R17 rear tires
• Summit Racing and Eastwood for a long list of tools since this is first build

[DaleG]

Looking forward to following this one!

Cheers, Dale

[Courtnie Provencher]

Sounds like it's gonna be a wicked fun build! I'm looking forward to following along! Let us know if you need anything, we're happy to help! Oh, and welcome to the Factory Five Family!

[Al_C]

Sounds great, Doug! I can relate to the concept of doing everything 3 times, too. Just one comment on your tire choice. I'm looking at tires now, and am seriously considering Nitto NT05s rather than the NT555s. Might be worth checking out.

[dougski]

Sounds great, Doug! I can relate to the concept of doing everything 3 times, too. Just one comment on your tire choice. I'm looking at tires now, and am seriously considering Nitto NT05s rather than the NT555s. Might be worth checking out.

The NT05 is a nice looking tire and it does seem to rate higher than the 555 for both dry and wet performance. I will give a more detailed look when I get a second.

[dougski]

The next order of business was the body buck. I like working with wood so the weekend project ended up being a lot of fun. I googled FFR body buck and came up with a nice set of plans. The important part of the plans are the dimensioned drawings for the two body support end pieces. I include a carpeted shelf for storing the hood, trunk, and doors that are removed during disassembly. The wheels are all the swivel type with two of them having rolling locks. I definitely recommend a rolling lock on at least one of the wheels but I plan to replace two of the rotating wheels will be the fixed direction variety to prevent the body buck from going every direction but straight each time I push it out of the garage. I would also lower the cross braces to reduce the amount of leg flex when I push the buck over the divide between the garage and driveway. I did not snap a photo of the body buck by itself but here all loaded up.



The kit arrived but not at the house because the driveway is just too narrow and steep for the 18-wheeler delivery truck. I borrowed a heavy duty trailer from a friend and met the Stewart Transport truck at the Home Depot a couple of miles from the house. The Stewart Transport folks are top notch and easy to work with.



The next step was to take a day or so to inventory the parts and get them organized on a couple of garage shelves. I taped sheet protectors to each box for holding the FFR inventory sheets. No errors amazingly enough. I am not sure how many individual parts are in the kit but the FFR team did an incredible job. The few items that were not in the kit were listed on a backorder sheet that arrived over the next several weeks.

[DaleG]

Oh man! You are too organized.

[2FAST4U]

Sounds like a solid build plan. Congrats and have fun.

[dougski]

Oh man! You are too organized.

Did my wife tell you to say that? Actually I think she refers to it as obsessive compulsive or some other medical term. Unfortunately I have found that the less organized I am the more frustrated I get when things start to go wrong so I am stuck with it.

[dougski]

Cobra Console Sneak Peak
While I am waiting for the powertrain from Gordon Levy, I am working on a separate but related project I call the cobra console. The cobra console is basically a programmable fuse box that lets me automate many of the car's electrical functions. I am still deciding between the street and competition layout for the dash but in either case the dash will not include any switches or lights, only gauges. Instead I plan to support two control panels centered between the bottom of the dash and the top of the transmission tunnel. I call one the mechanical control panel and I call the other the cobra console panel.

A prototype of the mechanical control panel is shown below with the familiar selection of switches and lights. The ignition switch came with the FFR kit. The headlight switch came with the Ron Francis XP-727 fuse panel that I have selected. More on that in a minute. The toggle switches and lights are from Digi-Key Electronics. For those not familiar, Digi-Key is to electrical components what McMaster-Carr is to mechanical components.

One thing I learned while building the mechanical panel prototype is that the red rocker switch covers shown below only support two position toggle switches. To turn the switch on, you flip up the rocker switch cover and then flip up the switch. To turn the switch off, you simply flip down the rocker switch cover. This works well for on-off functions such as hazard lights, cabin lights, and cooling fans. The bottom row of switches support three position functions such as windshield wipers and seat heaters, which have low and high settings in addition to off. I also found already cut label plates that come with nice looking peel and stick labels. I plan to add these to both the label plates for the three position switches and to the rocker switch covers for the two position switches once position is finalized.



A prototype of the cobra console panel is shown below. It is an 8-inch LCD display with a touch screen that basically replaces the mechanical switches with soft buttons. The LCD display size is the same as the mechanical panel discussed above so that I can swap back and forth without too much effort. Keep in mind that the graphics shown on the display are only a starting point for bench testing. I plan to replace the three clocks with a selectable set of gauges and the rather plain buttons with something a little more flashy.



Unfortunately it is not as easy as just switching out the mechanical switch panel with the cobra console panel. I also need to switch out the FFR fuse panel with electronics for controlling the LCD display and the cars electrical system. The problem with the standard FFR fuse panel for this application is that the wires are permanently attached. So I replaced the standard panel with the Ron Francis XP-727 shown below. Since both panels are produced by Ron Francis, the functionality is very similar but the wires are attached with screw terminals.



Now it becomes a simple matter to replace the mechanical fuse panel with my cobra console fuse panel design shown in the pictures below. I plan to discuss in greater detail for those that are interested when I get to the electrical installation part of the build. In the meantime here is a list of features that I have working so far. I am also completely open to suggestions for features that I have not yet considered.

• Android operating system
• 8-inch LCD display with touchscreen
• Activated with keypad unlock similar to cell phone or remotely with key fob
• Replaces standard switches with soft buttons
• Variable intensity cabin lights with automatic on and off
• Intermittent and variable speed windshield wipers
• Dusk sensing for automatic headlight control
• Automatic headlight shutoff triggered by delay from open door with ignition off
• Selectable horn alarm triggered triggered by delay from door open without keypad unlock
• Selectable gauge function with either analog or digital display format
• Selectable gauge limits for visual and audio alarms
• Selectable turn signal button operation for horn or low/high beam
• Replaces standard blade-type fuses with automatic recovery protection
• Eliminates signal flashers and the need for LED load simulation resistors

[2bking]

I like your innovation. Looks like you will have a lot of the same features as the Infinity Wiring System. The Infinity Wiring has a flaw of too much current draw when the car is parked thus will drain the battery within a week. A battery cut off switch will prevent that but it also erases info stored in the PCM and a GPS speedometer thus is not a good solution. Hopefully yours won't drain a battery. A touch screen has a problem of distracted driving if it needs to be accessed to control your different functions or show other gauge readings.

[Jazzman]

That is some seriously impressive electronics you have there. Let me guess: in a previous life you were an electrical engineer or computer systems designer. How close am I? I had been considering some sort of soft key GUI system, but If I do it I will take someone else's hardware and software and apply it to this project. It has been far too long since I programmed anything, including the VCR! (I guess I just dated myself: I should have said DVR.) Your build will be one to watch!

[dougski]

I like your innovation. Looks like you will have a lot of the same features as the Infinity Wiring System. The Infinity Wiring has a flaw of too much current draw when the car is parked thus will drain the battery within a week. A battery cut off switch will prevent that but it also erases info stored in the PCM and a GPS speedometer thus is not a good solution. Hopefully yours won't drain a battery. A touch screen has a problem of distracted driving if it needs to be accessed to control your different functions or show other gauge readings.

Thanks for your observations. The cobra console is similar in functionality to the Infinity but as you probably know the architecture is very different. The Infinity is based on the two wire CAN Bus and generally includes an electronic module under the dash, another under the hood, and possibly another in the trunk. The cobra console is based on a standard wiring harness and simply replaces the fuse box. One feature that I did not mention is that the unit senses battery voltage and does a complete shutdown when the battery voltage drops to a programmable setpoint. The upside to this feature is that the car will start. The downside is that the unit currently requires a fifteen second turn on time for the android operating system to boot. I am hoping to reduce that time to something more tolerable. I guess I am not sure how much of a distraction it will be pressing a button on the touchscreen will be compared to flipping a toggle switch on the dash. I do plan to support alarms for the gauge functions and I am also implementing voice commands for the button functions in case it does turn out to be too distracting.

Thanks for your comments and I really have enjoyed your build by the way. Your attention to detail is much appreciated!

[dougski]

That is some seriously impressive electronics you have there. Let me guess: in a previous life you were an electrical engineer or computer systems designer. How close am I? I had been considering some sort of soft key GUI system, but If I do it I will take someone else's hardware and software and apply it to this project. It has been far too long since I programmed anything, including the VCR! (I guess I just dated myself: I should have said DVR.) Your build will be one to watch!

You of course are spot on. Well, all except the part about the previous life. While I have been designing these type of systems for planes, trains, boats, and automobiles since the Flintstones (I think that predates the VCR), I have not yet reached the status of retired. I do have to say that while I am comfortable with the electronics part, developing the android app is a new venture. I do have lots of help from the programmers at work though. Thanks for commenting!

[2bking]

Now that you have explained some of the details, the picture seems to be of a production type board. Is this something available to the public? I assume the overlay marking the terminals is something you made.

As far as the Infinity Wiring and battery voltage, for another $200 or so dollars they have a battery voltage monitor that does what you describe your panel does, turn off the system. I'm somewhat disappointed after spending a lot of cash for the Infinity Wiring, to find it drains the battery so quickly. I'm currently doing a test of my system to determine how long the battery can last and am in day 6. Yesterday it still cranked the engine but seemed a little bit weak. I don't think it will make seven days.

[dougski]

Now that you have explained some of the details, the picture seems to be of a production type board. Is this something available to the public? I assume the overlay marking the terminals is something you made.

As far as the Infinity Wiring and battery voltage, for another $200 or so dollars they have a battery voltage monitor that does what you describe your panel does, turn off the system. I'm somewhat disappointed after spending a lot of cash for the Infinity Wiring, to find it drains the battery so quickly. I'm currently doing a test of my system to determine how long the battery can last and am in day 6. Yesterday it still cranked the engine but seemed a little bit weak. I don't think it will make seven days.

Sorry to hear that the Infinity system is not working out for you in regards to battery drain. I know how costly the system can be. Another possible test would be to measure the battery drain using a current meter in series between the negative terminal and the associated ground wire. I would consider anything higher than 0.05A (50mA) too high. This technique can be used to eliminate the chance that another load may be causing the problem if you have not already done that. My hope for the cobra console is that I can get thee android boot time to less than five seconds so I can completely shut the unit down when the car is turned off and consume zero amps.

The unit shown in my picture is one of four prototypes that I built. Well, I did not actually assemble the product but the production department at my company did. We have a couple of automated assembly lines and solder techs that can see way better than I can with my aging eyes. While I did not originally intend to make the product available for the general market, I just may change my mind if the testing in the car goes as well as the testing in the lab. Best of luck with getting your electrical system in order.

[cgundermann]

Wow - very very impressive!

[dougski]

Started temporary installation of the Driver Side (DS) and Passenger Side (PS) F panels. In fact all panels are being installed temporarily with cleco fasteners since they will be removed for powder coating.

First thing I noticed was that the PS F panel has a rather large oval cutout. A bit of research turned up that the cutout is apparently for donor Mustang radiator hoses. I called FFR and ordered a PS F panel without the oval cutout. They actually referred to it as a mirrored DS F panel but the end result is that the new panel fits on the passenger side and the hole is gone. One less patch panel.

I drilled and mounted the F panels with two modifications courtesy of the edwardb build. The first modification was to drill mounting holes for 10-32 rivet nuts along the back edge for attaching the splash guards. This makes it easier to remove the splash guards for better access to the engine compartment. The actual rivet nuts will be installed after powder coat.

Of course I did not have any rivet nuts since this is my first build and my garage hobby up to this point in my life was woodworking. I ordered a 95105A400 kit from McMaster-Carr. The kit comes with a sampling of common sized rivet nuts and an installation tool. I also ordered a few extra 8-32 (95105A119) and 10-32 (95105A135) rivet nuts since I can see several other places in the build where these will come in handy. Keep in mind that these nuts are designed for a specific material thickness so different part numbers may be required for installing in thicker material.

The next thing I learned is that uncommon drill sizes are required for the rivet nut holes. For example a 10-32 rivet nut requires a 19/64-inch drill. Woodworkers do not typically have drill bits sized to the 64ths of an inch so it was time to order a complete drill bit set. I hope my wife is not reading this! Actually I am sure she suspects something since my new best friends are the FedEx and UPS drivers.

The second modification was to cut a 5/8-inch square from the top corners of both panels for routing electrical into the engine compartment with as little clutter as possible. Not sure if the notch is large enough so I will need to do a little more planning with the actual wire harness before sending the panels to the powder coater.



I decided while I was into drilling aluminum I would install the firewall. The FFR firewall is 0.040-inches thick. While I am sure this is fine, the FFRMetal 0.090-inch thick firewall is popular with many builders so I went with it. A new problem surfaced when I started drilling the firewall mounting holes in the frame tube. Since I was now drilling into a larger 2-inch tube the drill chuck hit the aluminum panel rather than the drill bit hitting the back of tube. The result was marked up aluminum as shown in the picture below.



The solution I came up with was to slide a small flat washer over the drill bit as shown in the picture. I am thinking about powder coating the firewall chrome or maybe polishing and powder coating with a clear finish, so the less work I have to do to get rid of imperfections the better.



The next thing I did was to install the transmission mount. This comes much later in the FFR assembly manual but the build school instructors recommend doing earlier in the build especially before installing the engine and transmission.



Front suspension and brakes next.

[chopthebass]

I couldn't have got my engine and transmission in with the transmission mount in. Plus, I had to move the cross member (in the center of pic) two inches to the right, as I had mid-shift on the TKO.

[dougski]

I couldn't have got my engine and transmission in with the transmission mount in. Plus, I had to move the cross member (in the center of pic) two inches to the right, as I had mid-shift on the TKO.

Makes sense to me on the on the transmission mount. I am still trying to decide if I want to keep the gear shifter in the standard position or move it forward. I guess it depends on comfort or maybe the center console design. Part of me likes the idea of a glove box on the center console between the seats for resting my elbow while I am shifting. It seems that I would want to move the gear shifter up for this configuration. What was your reasoning for making the move?

[edwardb]

I drilled and mounted the F panels with two modifications courtesy of the edwardb build. The first modification was to drill mounting holes for 10-32 rivet nuts along the back edge for attaching the splash guards. This makes it easier to remove the splash guards for better access to the engine compartment. The actual rivet nuts will be installed after powder coat.

The second modification was to cut a 5/8-inch square from the top corners of both panels for routing electrical into the engine compartment with as little clutter as possible. Not sure if the notch is large enough so I will need to do a little more planning with the actual wire harness before sending the panels to the powder coater.

Nice work and nice progress. Glad to see my build thread(s) are giving you some ideas. And looks like helping to spend your money. Couple hints. Personally, I would go ahead and put in the rivet nuts before powder coat. Saves getting powder coat in your mounting holes, prevents the possibility of marring up the powder coat installing them, coats the inserts as well plus who knows maybe helps hold them in a little more. It's totally normal for powder coaters to have to deal with threaded holes. They have little silicone plugs that they put into the holes. Even if a little gets in there, it's super easy to run a tap through the threads to clear if necessary. As far as the notches in the F-panels, it's my practice to run the harness to the front along the outside of the 3/4 inch tube like pictured below. Some guys put them on the inside. I like to hide stuff like that as much as possible. In order to clear on the outside, you need to notch in the F-panel and then later a similar notch in the splash guard. The stock Ron Francis wiring only has a front harness branch on the driver's side. So if you're doing a pure stock electrical installation, then you only need provision on that side. On both of my builds, I had some other wiring (fog/running lights, electric power steering, etc.) that I needed to run in another branch, so did that on the passenger side. Carry on, and good luck with your build! Fun, isn't it?

[dougski]

Nice work and nice progress. Glad to see my build thread(s) are giving you some ideas. And looks like helping to spend your money. Couple hints. Personally, I would go ahead and put in the rivet nuts before powder coat. Saves getting powder coat in your mounting holes, prevents the possibility of marring up the powder coat installing them, coats the inserts as well plus who knows maybe helps hold them in a little more. It's totally normal for powder coaters to have to deal with threaded holes. They have little silicone plugs that they put into the holes. Even if a little gets in there, it's super easy to run a tap through the threads to clear if necessary. As far as the notches in the F-panels, it's my practice to run the harness to the front along the outside of the 3/4 inch tube like pictured below. Some guys put them on the inside. I like to hide stuff like that as much as possible. In order to clear on the outside, you need to notch in the F-panel and then later a similar notch in the splash guard. The stock Ron Francis wiring only has a front harness branch on the driver's side. So if you're doing a pure stock electrical installation, then you only need provision on that side. On both of my builds, I had some other wiring (fog/running lights, electric power steering, etc.) that I needed to run in another branch, so did that on the passenger side. Carry on, and good luck with your build! Fun, isn't it?

Thanks for the guidance on the rivet nuts. It will be less worrisome installing them before the panels are powder coated. The wire harness routing in the picture is exceptionally clean. Where do you get the zip tie clips if you do not mind me asking? I hope you do not get tired of references to your build thread because there will be many more in the following months!

[edwardb]

Thanks for the guidance on the rivet nuts. It will be less worrisome installing them before the panels are powder coated. The wire harness routing in the picture is exceptionally clean. Where do you get the zip tie clips if you do not mind me asking? I hope you do not get tired of references to your build thread because there will be many more in the following months!

You're welcome. I should have included the information about the cable tie mounts. I get that question all the time! They're part number 7566K13 from McMaster, Avery Dennison #10045, and come in a bag of 100. Fortunately, not expensive. The mounting hole is just barely undersize for a 3/16 inch pop rivet. Easy to drill out. Some 3/16 inch pop rivets drop down into the countersink in the top. If they don't, I put the rivet in my drill press, couple of passes with a file while spinning, and in they go. I usually do a group of them at a time. I agree, a very neat and solid way to mount wiring. I have a bunch of them in each of my builds.

No worries about using ideas. That's what's so great about the forums. I get new ideas from other people's builds all the time. I can't claim everything as original.

Hey to San Luis Obispo! Great area. I split my time while growing up in Ventura County and then the San Fernando Valley.

[dougski]

The front suspension was next. The FFR assembly manual does a good job explaining the steps. One problem was that I was not able to torque down one of the castle nuts because the ball joint would just rotate with the nut. Hmmm, no help from the manual but a not-so-quick search through the build threads solved the problem It turns out that the spacer that slips over the ball joint under the castle nut is chamfered on one side. The trick is to point the chamfered side down toward the ball joint. No problem torquing after I flipped the washer over.

Another small problem was that I was unable to insert the cotter pin because the slot in the castle nut did not line up well enough with the hole in the ball joint shaft when the torque wrench clicked. Not sure what others do here but I solved this problem with a little more torque and a slightly smaller diameter cotter pin.

The next task was Wilwood brake installation. The manual explains the steps for a standard brake setup rather than the Wilwood option. Fortunately the Wilwood setup comes with complete and easy to follow directions.

It all seems complete, except for greasing the ball joints and setting alignment. The manual calls out for adding grease later during the rolling chassis check and having a professional set the alignment during the final assembly. I plan to have a go at the alignment myself once the power steering is installed.



One of the many suggestions that I have pulled from the edwardb build thread is to install hex coupling nuts before mounting the gas tank to simplify installing the rear quick jacks or bumper. The holes in the frame for the bumper bolts allow for a 1/8 inch tolerance buildup which will be a problem when aligning with the holes in the body. I centered one of the coupling nuts on a frame hole and positioned the remaining three nuts with a 31 inch horizontal separation and a 2-1/4 inch vertical separation which were the spacings of the bumper bolt holes on the body. I used 7/16 inch mounting hardware because that is what comes with the kit. The problem is that 7/16 inch coupling nuts are not available in local hardware stores so I ordered from McMaster-Carr. The 1-1/4 inch long 7/16-20 stainless nuts are 90268A340 and a pack of five 1/2 inch long 7/16-20 black socket head cap screws are 91251A957.

This is where the adventure starts. Instead of painting the coupling nuts, I decided to investigate powder coating. It turns out Eastwood makes a starter kit that includes a dual-voltage paint gun, gloss black powder that closely matches the FFR color, choice of four additional colors, small bench top oven, and other miscellaneous supplies.



There are several advantages to powder coat over paint. Powder coat is more scratch and chip resistant, easier to apply, less messy to cleanup, and parts are ready to be be used sooner after material is applied. One disadvantage is the cost of getting started. The kit without the oven is in the $200 range, which is just about the price I had from the local powder coat house for the small bare metal parts that came in the kit. These are the twenty or so parts listed in the Kit Parts Prep table of the manual. That means the cost is about break even if you come up with own oven. Any electric oven (except the one you cook in) can be used if you have 220V in the garage, which unfortunately I do not.

The first order of business was to build a paint booth. Well, calling it a paint booth is a bit of a stretch. I simply mounted a threaded rod through a cardboard box for transferring the connection from ground wire on the powder coat gun to the part through metal hooks. I initially set the box up outside on a couple of sawhorses over a tarp because I did not know how much of a mess to expect. There was so little mess that I now simply set the box on the workbench in the garage. The powder is classified as a nuisance dust and should not be inhaled. I use a 3M respirator that I had around the shop but a disposable dust mask is all that is required.



Below is a picture of the bushings hanging in the "elaborate powder coat booth". The metal hooks transfer the ground to to part being coated and the gun has a positive electrode that charges the powder on the way out. The powder electrically adheres to the part providing that you do not forget to push the activation switch. I make the metal hooks from the miles of safety wire left over from the Wilwood brakes.



Then in the powder coat oven for a couple minutes at 450F for the dull powder to turn shiny and then twenty minutes at 400F for the final bake. Sorry for the reflection in the oven door glass. The oven has a timer and turns off automatically.



The parts are ready for install after a couple of minutes for cool down. I initially taped the ends of the couplings because I was worried that the paint would get onto the threads. While this sounded like a good idea it produced couplings with visible shiny spots as seen below with the two parts on the left. I did a second more successful batch using simple aluminum foil to protect the threads as seen in the part on the right. The standard powder coat thickness is only a couple thousandths of an inch so protecting the threads is probably not necessary.



Here they are installed on the frame.



I have powder coated many different parts since the rear bumper couplers. See post 10 earlier in this build thread for a couple of examples. I powder coated the mechanical switch mounting plate gloss black and the toggle switch label plates metallic red. In my opinion powder coating is much easier and more enjoyable than painting, at least when it comes to smaller parts.

[2bking]

Perhaps you have seen my setup in my build thread. It's very similar to yours but I put an air filter in back with a desk fan to pull the air through the box. I preheat the oven to 400 F, put the parts in, and set the timer for 22 minutes. I have forgotten and left some parts in the oven and baked them for over a hour with no damage to the coating. I have used about 4 lbs of gloss black powder in my build. Don't bother to mask the threads or holes because the powder doesn't want to go into holes so very little build up happens. For parts I want to coat on only one side I use blue masking tape on the non coated side. The heat melts the tape glue and it comes off; the residue is easily cleaned off with acetone. If you have trouble with small spots on the finished parts, try passing them through a blue flame to burn off the dust before coating.

The gloss black is very durable and can be lightly cleaned with acetone. I purchased the chrome color powder and found it to have very poor resistance to most any petroleum base liquid. I have three or four other colors but never found a place to use them. I like being able to make a part and having it ready to install in 30 minutes with a professional looking finish.

[dougski]

Perhaps you have seen my setup in my build thread. It's very similar to yours but I put an air filter in back with a desk fan to pull the air through the box. I preheat the oven to 400 F, put the parts in, and set the timer for 22 minutes. I have forgotten and left some parts in the oven and baked them for over a hour with no damage to the coating. I have used about 4 lbs of gloss black powder in my build. Don't bother to mask the threads or holes because the powder doesn't want to go into holes so very little build up happens. For parts I want to coat on only one side I use blue masking tape on the non coated side. The heat melts the tape glue and it comes off; the residue is easily cleaned off with acetone. If you have trouble with small spots on the finished parts, try passing them through a blue flame to burn off the dust before coating.

The gloss black is very durable and can be lightly cleaned with acetone. I purchased the chrome color powder and found it to have very poor resistance to most any petroleum base liquid. I have three or four other colors but never found a place to use them. I like being able to make a part and having it ready to install in 30 minutes with a professional looking finish.

I have your build bookmarked so I must have seen your setup when I started reviewing threads about a year ago. Maybe the reason I decided to look into powder coating was that I had your post neatly tucked away for future use. There may be hope for me yet! I just had another look and I really like the addition of both the filter and the fan. I would also like to add a skylight for better viewing in the back of the box where the parts are hanging. Thanks for confirming that masking the threads is not necessary and providing the tip with the blue tape for areas not needing the powder coat.

[FastLaneClassicCars]

Incredible build!

[6t8dart]

I decided while I was into drilling aluminum I would install the firewall. The FFR firewall is 0.040-inches thick. While I am sure this is fine, the FFRMetal 0.090-inch thick firewall is popular with many builders so I went with it. A new problem surfaced when I started drilling the firewall mounting holes in the frame tube. Since I was now drilling into a larger 2-inch tube the drill chuck hit the aluminum panel rather than the drill bit hitting the back of tube. The result was marked up aluminum as shown in the picture below.



The solution I came up with was to slide a small flat washer over the drill bit as shown in the picture. I am thinking about powder coating the firewall chrome or maybe polishing and powder coating with a clear finish, so the less work I have to do to get rid of imperfections the better.

Doug, It might be too late, but apply some electrical or duct tape to the back of the washer (toward the firewall) , the tape will grip the aluminum and the chuck will spin against the metal side. Or, rather than use a metal washer, you can find nylon washers at the hardware store. Last option would be to just apply some thin acetate plastic to the panel, the chuck will mar the plastic, but leave the aluminum perfect.

[karlos]

Maybe I misunderstand but it seems you just need an inexpensive drill stop. $1.65 at the location linked below. Also a good source for Clecos and drill bits (although it looks like you already have your Clecos).

http://www.cokid.com/


drill_stops.JPG

[dougski]

Maybe I misunderstand but it seems you just need an inexpensive drill stop. $1.65 at the location linked below. Also a good source for Clecos and drill bits (although it looks like you already have your Clecos).

http://www.cokid.com/


drill_stops.JPG

Thanks for the advise. I have not seen drill stops like these before. I have a collar style stop that fastens to the drill bit but it still damages the aluminum panels. The washer solution I came up with is cheaper than the drill stop that you pointed out but not nearly as cool to have in the toolbox! I will add it to the next order.

[dougski]

Doug, It might be too late, but apply some electrical or duct tape to the back of the washer (toward the firewall) , the tape will grip the aluminum and the chuck will spin against the metal side. Or, rather than use a metal washer, you can find nylon washers at the hardware store. Last option would be to just apply some thin acetate plastic to the panel, the chuck will mar the plastic, but leave the aluminum perfect.

Never too late, believe me I still have plenty of panel drilling to do. The metal washer solved about 90% of the problem but I still had to be careful not to push to hard. Both your solutions seem like they take me the last 10%. I will try them out during my next drilling session.

[PalmTree]

Hi Doug! Thanks for taking the time to so completely document your selection process and your build progress. Writing up periodic comments may not be as much fun as being in the shop but I can tell you for certain that we appreciate your comments. Like many of the others in this string, I will look forward to following your build. I'll especially like any comments or hints or "tricks" that you or others may come up with to ensure a good build.

For now, I'm brand new to the forum. I'm planning out my purchase of the MK4 kit. I realize right off the bat that there is a WHOLE LOT that I need to learn about the car and the various component selections to ensure that my car will be a success.

Thanks again for the pictures and comments.

A complete "newbie" to the MK4 forums.

Jim

[WIS89]

Doug-

I always removed the aluminum panel when drilling the holes in the frame. I drilled the aluminum panel, used it to mark the frame, then drilled the frame separately. It presented some modest alignment issues once or twice, but nothing too major.

You have some good ideas from folks already, but I wanted to throw another thought your way. A good quality rubber washer (something with some thickness to it) should do the job as well, and it has the added benefit of not being metal which might take a bite out of the panel. Just a thought...

I am enjoying your build thread. THanks!

Regards,

Steve

[RR20AC]

At the build school they just said to drill out a set rivet and leave the head on the drill. It is a stop that is the same size as all the other rivets.

[RR20AC]

I like your build by the way.

[dougski]

Hi Doug! Thanks for taking the time to so completely document your selection process and your build progress. Writing up periodic comments may not be as much fun as being in the shop but I can tell you for certain that we appreciate your comments. Like many of the others in this string, I will look forward to following your build. I'll especially like any comments or hints or "tricks" that you or others may come up with to ensure a good build.

For now, I'm brand new to the forum. I'm planning out my purchase of the MK4 kit. I realize right off the bat that there is a WHOLE LOT that I need to learn about the car and the various component selections to ensure that my car will be a success.

Thanks again for the pictures and comments.

A complete "newbie" to the MK4 forums.

Jim

Thank you for the words of encouragement Jim. It does take some time but I enjoy documenting both mistakes and successes. It seems there are at least two types of builders that detail their work in these threads: those who really know what their doing and those who are learning and counting on those who really know what they are doing to review their work and point out mistakes. I am definitely in the second group. As you point out, There is a lot to learn but it seems you already know that the build threads are a great place to start. Let me know if I can help with any options you may be considering. Best of luck with your project.

[dougski]

At the build school they just said to drill out a set rivet and leave the head on the drill. It is a stop that is the same size as all the other rivets.

Now that you mention it, I do remember that being a build school tip. Guess I should go back and review my notes from the class to make sure I am not forgetting something else. Wait, what was I going to do?

[dougski]

Doug-

I always removed the aluminum panel when drilling the holes in the frame. I drilled the aluminum panel, used it to mark the frame, then drilled the frame separately. It presented some modest alignment issues once or twice, but nothing too major.

You have some good ideas from folks already, but I wanted to throw another thought your way. A good quality rubber washer (something with some thickness to it) should do the job as well, and it has the added benefit of not being metal which might take a bite out of the panel. Just a thought...

I am enjoying your build thread. THanks!

Regards,

Steve

Thanks Steve, I do remove the panels for marking and drilling with a small benchtop drill press. Then I locate the panel on the frame, drill a couple corner holes, clecko in place, and then drill the remainder of the holes. Will have to try center punching, removing the panel, and drilling the frame separately.
Doug

[Carlos C]

Doug:

Great build so far. I especially like your electrical/electronic ingenuity that you bring to the project. I'm in the process of building my own powder coating box, except that mine will be on a larger scale, since I plan to powder-coat the aluminum panels myself. I also have to coat some donor parts, not to mention that there are too many items in the kit, which come bare.

Keep up the good work, and post lots of photos. We love pictures.

Carlos

[2FAST4U]

Great build and impressed with your innovative ideas. Well played