Boig Motorsports

Visit our community sponsor

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Do you think it's worth the money to have an engine built or buy a crate engine?

  1. #1
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like

    Do you think it's worth the money to have an engine built or buy a crate engine?

    Hi guys.

    I have a question that I think quite a few people here have the experience to answer.

    Do you think it's worth spending the additional money to have an engine 'built" by reputable engine shops, or is it more practical to by a crate engine from GMPP, Ford Racing, or Roush? I'm thinking about a power train for my next build (I don't know what that's going to be yet, but I'm think I have it down to 3 to 4 choices) and I think I want to be in the 500 to 550 bhp range, and I know want it to be as bulletproof as possible.

    Mast Motorsports, Katech, Inc., Nelson Racing Engines, Forte, Schwartz, etc., etc., etc. They all claim to have the most sound engineering, and they all show stellar customer references, but what are the opinions of the people here who have used shops like these to build your engines? Was it worth it? Would you do it again? If you had any issues, did they stand behind their products or did they try to get out of correcting for you?

    I know that there are quite a few people here who have had engines built. And I've read some of the stories of how these engines were the best car investment they've made as well as some who said that they've had A LOT of issues with them, including catastrophic failures in the first 500 miles.

    If you go that route, how do you know who to trust? And is that trust based on personal knowledge and experience with the engine builder, or based on the the fact that they had a cool web-site, that drew you in? I know that most people put more effort into than that, but you never know.

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  2. #2
    Senior Member Roger Reid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Caldwell (near Boise) Idaho
    Posts
    237
    Post Thanks / Like
    Consider the Audi R8 V8. No adapters necessary to use the Audi 6 speed manual or S Tronic. Use the Audi wiring harness and ECU. Put a twin turbo on it and it will be sweet.

    Don't discount the S Tronic as a purist might. Almost instant shifts make it quicker than a manual.
    Just an old man with a great hobby

  3. #3
    Senior Member Taz Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    738
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Reid View Post
    Consider the Audi R8 V8. No adapters necessary to use the Audi 6 speed manual or S Tronic. Use the Audi wiring harness and ECU. Put a twin turbo on it and it will be sweet.

    Don't discount the S Tronic as a purist might. Almost instant shifts make it quicker than a manual.
    Plus the paddle shifter will free up space in your center console for stereo equipment.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,960
    Post Thanks / Like
    Buy a 525 crate engine and be done with it. I believe they go for around $7k. Even if you have an issue with it and have to buy a second one, at a total cost of $14k you are still money ahead of the reputable engine builders costs. My personal opinion is to get the flatter torque curve of the 480, but if you just have to be able to say that you have "500 horsepower" then the 525 is the engine to get.

    http://paceperformance.com/i-7739382...te-engine.html
    www.myraceshop.com

    GTM solution kits
    Corvette and Race parts

  5. #5
    Senior Member flotowngtm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    145
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have a Mast Motorsports LSX. Great motor but mine has one flaw. Its stroked a little to much causing some oil loss. I went with Mast only because of the electronics. Mast makes their own computer set up. The electronics beat the heck out of GM stuff and also will save you some time. 3 wire hook up and has a great software package. It really is a beast motor with over 700hp but I am not sure I would do it again. If I was not looking to go way up in HP in the future I may would take the route Crash suggested.
    But I am looking for turbos in the and know I would end up blowing an Aluminum block all to hell!

  6. #6
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by crash View Post
    Buy a 525 crate engine and be done with it. I believe they go for around $7k. Even if you have an issue with it and have to buy a second one, at a total cost of $14k you are still money ahead of the reputable engine builders costs. My personal opinion is to get the flatter torque curve of the 480, but if you just have to be able to say that you have "500 horsepower" then the 525 is the engine to get.

    http://paceperformance.com/i-7739382...te-engine.html
    Actually, the LS376/480 is what I've had in mind if I were to go with a crate engine again. I like your logic also. The price of two LS3's is still less than what most of these guys charge for their lighter output engines. I mentioned 500 - 550 because that seems to be where the horse-power ranges start with pro-builders. By the way, it still blows me away that you can buy a 525 hp ls3 for 5k less than an LS7 rated at 505 hp...

    The other side of the coin, though, is knowing exactly how your engine is built, and having Bullet-proof-ness built in. I don't care if I have the highest horsepower dyno sheet. 480 to 500 would suit me fine, and knowing that the internals were balanced would help my concerns a bit as well.
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  7. #7
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by flotowngtm View Post
    I have a Mast Motorsports LSX. I went with Mast only because of the electronics. Mast makes their own computer set up. The electronics beat the heck out of GM stuff and also will save you some time. 3 wire hook up and has a great software package. It really is a beast motor with over 700hp but I am not sure I would do it again. If I was not looking to go way up in HP in the future I may would take the route Crash suggested.
    But I am looking for turbos in the and know I would end up blowing an Aluminum block all to hell!
    What makes the computer so much better than the GM LS computers? Is it due to open code that can be easily programmed?

    Whatever I build next, will be used strictly for street. So I don't need the engine to be maxed to it's limits. In fact I would prefer that it wasn't. I believe in longevity in regard to major items like this. The main reason for asking this question is exactly for this type of info.

    As I said, I am thinking of 3 or 4 different choices as my next build, including the Type 65. In that case, I would likely go with a Ford engine. Probably a 351 block stroked to a 427. I really like the look of the Roush engines, but again, I've heard as much negative as I have positive about them.

    At some point, I'll definitely be building a Mk4 Roadster, and will probably use a 351 in it.

    Another car that I'm considering would likely end up with a Mercedes AMG-63 V8 (whole different ballpark with that one).

    And then I've always loved street rods, and have been thinking of doing a Oze Bodied 37 Ford 5 window coupe. That could have a 351 or an LS3.

    My whole mindset is this; after going through this GTM build and realizing what it has cost me to get to where I am with it, I've started rationalizing whether or not it makes sense to spend a bit more to buy some insurance in terms of knowing how the engine was built, and long term expectations.
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  8. #8
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Reid View Post
    Consider the Audi R8 V8. No adapters necessary to use the Audi 6 speed manual or S Tronic. Use the Audi wiring harness and ECU. Put a twin turbo on it and it will be sweet.

    Don't discount the S Tronic as a purist might. Almost instant shifts make it quicker than a manual.
    Roger, I've been thinking about the R8 engine for a future project.

    I've been going back and forth between that or the Mercedes AMG-63. (I'm a Mercedes guy). Go Lewis Hamilton! Both engines match up pretty well to the Grazziano transaxle's gear ratios.

    The problem with either of them is that to get a new one will run you in the range of 30k or more. Therefore the logical path would be to buy a low mileage engine and have it rebuilt and brought to "new" specs for around half the cost; maybe less.

    But what you're getting with that, compared to the LS hp, is wow factor. It just looks a little more cool to me when you open the hood (or hatch). And oh my god they sound GOOD!


    Back to reality...
    Again, I am only asking this question out of curiosity as to whether those that have gone with pro build shops felt that they got what they had hope for.

    Mike
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    127
    Post Thanks / Like
    Not to start any feuding or what not, but I noticed you didn't mention the Coyote. I've seen a lot of builds with it and would consider it in a project of my own (if/when that happens). Is there any particular reason you've left it out of the conversation? There is also the Voodoo. I've only seen the youtube promo from ford racing about it, but i bet it would have that sweet sound.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like
    We'd love to be in the conversation on a Engine Package. Engine Factory has been a gold supporting vendor for 10+ years and have supplied
    powerplants to MKIV, Hot Rod and Coupes for the past 20 years. www.fordcobraengines.com Thanks let us know how we can help.

  11. #11
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jceckard View Post
    Not to start any feuding or what not, but I noticed you didn't mention the Coyote. I've seen a lot of builds with it and would consider it in a project of my own (if/when that happens). Is there any particular reason you've left it out of the conversation? There is also the Voodoo. I've only seen the youtube promo from ford racing about it, but i bet it would have that sweet sound.
    The Coyote is a great engine. It comes with it's list of complexities as far as getting it wedged into the Mk4 or Coupe, but once it's there, it's a nice piece. Headers can be a little tricky, but my understanding is that the headers and exhaust issues have been solved. I followed along with David Borden's Mk4 build, as he shoe-horned that beast into his car. I know that he made a few frame modifications (for stiffness), and now I can't remember what that did to foot room for the pedals, if anything.

    I've always thought that if i built either of these cars, I'd give hard consideration to the old school look of the original engines. That's why I've mentioned Roush. A 427 with stacks would look killer in that engine bay. Although these days, a 427 Ford engine is usually accomplished by stroking a 351: Unless less your ready to double the price of entry for an original rebuilt 427 Big Block. I also like the idea of the Turkey Pan and "carb".

    I left out the name Coyote simply because my fingers were moving faster than my head when I typed the question... no other reason.

    However, I believe I did mention Ford Racing, (which sort of covers the Ford Product line).

    No need for feuds.

    Mike
    Last edited by The Stig; 12-08-2015 at 09:07 PM.
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  12. #12
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Engine Factory View Post
    We'd love to be in the conversation on a Engine Package. Engine Factory has been a gold supporting vendor for 10+ years and have supplied
    powerplants to MKIV, Hot Rod and Coupes for the past 20 years. www.fordcobraengines.com Thanks let us know how we can help.
    Thank you Christian. I've always tried to go to the forum vendors first, when making purchases for my car.

    At this point, I'm in the information gathering process, so I can get opinions of various types of engines and the pros & cons of the extent to which others have gone to make their engines for their projects what they wanted them to be. "Crate motor or Custom build".

    If I decide to go with the Mk4 or Type 65, I will certainly get in touch to learn about what you offer. But for now, I would really like to know what people who have laid out their money for a custom built engine really think about them. And why they felt that these engines are better than crate engines bought from GM / Ford / or even Mopar.

    This isn't about GM vs Chevy. I like them both (for different reasons).

    Thank you.

    Mike
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  13. #13
    Senior Member fact5racer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    557
    Post Thanks / Like
    Stay as far away from "custom" built engines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of ALL my builds every engine that I have had custom built turned into a piece of crap!

    All of the factory built motors I have used have been perfect!

    Don't even bring up the nightmare I am having with my 2014 C7 with a bad motor that GM wants the dealership to repair instead of replace!!!!!!!!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Taz Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    738
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheStig
    This isn't about GM vs Chevy. I like them both (for different reasons).*
    Yeah, I'm so over that GM vs Chevy fight!

  15. #15
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by fact5racer View Post
    Stay as far away from "custom" built engines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of ALL my builds every engine that I have had custom built turned into a piece of crap!

    All of the factory built motors I have used have been perfect!

    Don't even bring up the nightmare I am having with my 2014 C7 with a bad motor that GM wants the dealership to repair instead of replace!!!!!!!!
    Thank you Gary! That's the kind of honesty that I was hoping for. And leave it to you to "bring it"! Sorry to hear about the new Vette. That thing is gorgeous!!!! Hopefully they'll get it sorted out soon and you'll be back in the saddle.

    Mike
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  16. #16
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Taz Rules View Post
    Yeah, I'm so over that GM vs Chevy fight!
    Agreed. It's a pointless argument. Both are great products!

    By by the way, the calendars came today. My wife is a huge fan of your work!

    Thank you!

    Mike
    Last edited by The Stig; 12-08-2015 at 09:30 PM.
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  17. #17
    Senior Member flotowngtm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    145
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Mast electronics are really easy to use because they are made for cars like ours. You don't have to by pass anything to make it work. The computer is not looking for all the anti theft signals from the corvette to work. Just a 3 wire hook up and start the engine! Super simple. You could get a long block from GM or whoever and get all the fuel system and electronics package from Mast and use that. If I was going to go with a stock GM 500+ LS3 I think that is what I would do.

    I see Garys argument but I also know guys that had nothing but trouble with factory GM engines. I do believe Shane had a few brand new engines from GM that had major issues right out of the crate. Maybe he will chime in, if not I would message him.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,960
    Post Thanks / Like
    I probably had the biggest issue one could possibly have with a crate engine. I picked it up, changed the oil pan and timing chain, then put it on the engine dyno only to have a valve stick at 5000 RPM on the third power pull after breakin. It sucked. Valve on #3 stayed open, hit the piston, broke the head of the valve off, then exploded the piston and made the connecting rod into a whip. We never cracked that engine apart in any major way. Heads were never removed, etc. Anyway, I took it with a grain of salt and got a replacement with the knowledge that these LS3s are almost throw away engines due to their high horsepower to cost ratio. We have run 3 other box stock crate engines, with the exception of the oil pan and timing chain change outs, with no issues. Many MANY hard racing miles on them...and with stock crate based GM computers. HP Tuners have worked well, although, again, not without some hiccups and flaws along the way.
    www.myraceshop.com

    GTM solution kits
    Corvette and Race parts

  19. #19
    Senior Member Roger Reid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Caldwell (near Boise) Idaho
    Posts
    237
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Taz Rules View Post
    Yeah, I'm so over that GM vs Chevy fight!
    Just an old man with a great hobby

  20. #20
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Grrrrr.....I might be the wrong person to ask about this. The fact that I'm not a fan of GM does not fit well with the fact that I make my living building cars based around GM parts. With that said, I would say that about 90% of the problems I've had with these cars comes from problems with the GM parts.

    The first car I built......had the engine (donor LS1) running multiple times for over a year in the GTM. Suddenly it would not start. That was the dreaded VATS problem....which forced me to spend a bunch of money on HP Tuners.

    The second car I built was a new crate LS376......sort of. This was when the LS376 first came out....so to adapt it to the GTM, the owner had an engine builder swap out the 58 tooth crank sensor with a 24 tooth sensor so that we could run the C5 engine computer. The first start of this engine resulted in a large pool of oil on the shop floor. There is a cover on the engine block behind the flywheel. The bolts were only finger tight. This, of course, required pulling the transaxle and clutch and flywheel off and tightening the bolts for that cover panel. Put everything back together and restarted the engine. Now we only had a small puddle of oil on the floor. Oil pan leaks. Pull oil pan, install new gasket and put back together. No leaks. Take car to dyno. They can't get it to run right....car spent 3 days there. Found out all of the intake manifold bolts were only finger tight. Tightened bolts. Completed dyno tune. Drove it an ran it with no problems during test drive. Delivered to customer. Car won't idle. At all. Dies unless you have your foot on the throttle. That was about 9 years ago....so I don't even remember what needed to be done to fix it. We found a local tuner to come look at it, and I think he ended up changing the tune to fix it?

    Next GTM we built had a Katech Street Attack engine. Katech supplied the entire package...engine, ECU, harness, etc. Took to the dyno tuners after the car was completed. They worked on it for 2 days and could not get it to not die when coming down from idle. Katech would not provide any help. Called them multiple times......you'd think that $29k would buy you some support.....apparently not.

    One of the next cars we built had a stock LS376 crate engine in it. This was during the time when they had a rash of oil pick-up tubes with a cut o-ring. Before I installed the engine, I pulled the pan and sure enough, the O-ring was cut. Replaced the O-ring.

    Since then, if memory serves, I've had a total of one engine that I've installed that didn't leak oil. Some leak a lot, some just seep enough to keep the oil pan damp. After working on 24 different GTM's, I've come to the conclusion that LS engines just leak oil....apparently this is just normal. If not, then I have the worst luck in GM engines.

    In the past 5 years, I'd say I've had the best luck with just plain ol' stock GMPP crate engines. We've installed lots of LS376's and the 376 "Special" 525hp engines with the stock GMPP ECU provided with the engine. Use a single 4" CAI with the MAF sensor installed in the center of a straight length 4" tube. They all start and run and idle fine. They seem to be the most "turn key"....with no major drivability issues or absolute need to tune them. I'm sure a good tuner can squeeze more out of them, but at least they run and idle right out of the box. You might have an oil leak here or there, but for the most part, at least they start and run and idle.

    flowtowngtm's car was the first and only experience we've had with Mast Motorsports.....and it also started, ran and idled great, right out of the box. Also the engine with the scariest amount of torque. The only GTM I've driven that I would't even think about putting the pedal to the floor in 3rd gear at 80mph. I've never experienced wheel spin at 80mph, but was fairly certain that I easily could have......and I never want to experience that.
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  21. #21
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thank you Shane!

    I knew that you had seen your share of issues with LS crate engines along the way. I also remember you having multiple issues with leaking water pumps where the gaskets on the back covers leaked on a car that had been sent to Europe. That had to be a fun phone conversation...

    I had heard of another similar story regarding Katech. High dollar LS7 detonated in the first 500 miles, and they pretty much turned their backs on the engine owner.

    My GMPP LS2 is running well, now... But it took a few days at the tuner to get it to run smoothly, and idle at start-up and when coming off the RPM's. I had to have the computer flashed twice, and then the tuner did his thing. We did have trouble with oil leaking from the valve cover gaskets. Replaced them and I haven't had any issues with leaks since.

    And I agree 100%... Wheel spin at speed is not something that I ever care to experience either. I'm too old for that sort of stuff. Plus it would just piss my wife off; and I prefer to avoid that when possible.

    The issues that you spoke of, specifically the loose bolts and cut o-rings on the oil pick up tubes, and things of that nature are what made me want to ask this question in the first place.

    The auto makers a selling crate engines because they think they can make a profit from them in the custom car market. The problem, is that they are increasing the production volume at the engine plants to keep up with OEM manufacturing, as well as to supply their "Performance Parts" sales avenues with inventory. This forces the assembly line to turn more screws in the same amount of time, which can apparently result in some critical bolts to not be tightened or torqued.

    The flip side of this, should be the Custom Engine Builder(s) who build to order. I would imagine that 95% of the engines that they build are built to specific specs per the customers order. I wouldn't think that there would be much volume being generated to build engines to sit on racks until someone calls to order.

    So in this scenario, you would think that they would be able to take their time, and make sure that everything is done right. That's what their web-sites say... Yet, we hear far too often about $30,000 engines that detonate right out of the gates...

    That makes me wonder if these are one-off circumstances spread around the engine building industry, or if there are certain builders that the people here have noticed similar patterns.

    Who's great at what they do, (Product, Warranty, and Customer Service)? And Who would you stay away from?

    Take care Buddy! I appreciate the info. There's nothing like good honest feedback.

    Mike
    Last edited by The Stig; 12-09-2015 at 02:05 PM.
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  22. #22
    Senior Member Taz Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    738
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
    By by the way, the calendars came today. My wife is a huge fan of your work!

    Thank you!

    Mike
    No no no....thank YOU!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
    Plus it would just piss my wife off; and I prefer to avoid that when possible.
    And you spent HOW MUCH on Pandora??!!!!

  23. #23
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Taz Rules View Post
    No no no....thank YOU!


    And you spent HOW MUCH on Pandora??!!!!
    Put it this way, Gary Cheney wasn't far off when he reminded me (multiple times) that I would have money left over if I had just gone ahead and bought the Veyron...

    Live and Learn.

    Mike
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, USA
    Posts
    525
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    5
    I'm no expert, but I've read a lot on the forums. My two cents.
    1) regular street car that's a hot performer - crate engine
    2) race car where it's likely to be thrashed and you aren't super rich - crate engine
    3) race car with lots of money - custom build.
    4) you're building your dream car - custom build.

    Martin
    Previous forum name was "Fezzek"

  25. #25
    Member kabacj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    1,100
    Post Thanks / Like
    After careful consideration I went with Mast Motorsports

    The engine is build quality and components are top notch. Support after sale is awesome.

    My motor is very custom yet it was turn key.

    I have all the software to control the ECU as well.

    I have beat the hell out of it on the track and it's still very strong.

    I think the GMPP crate motor is the clear winner from the performance per dollar standpoint but it's slightly more DIY.

    When I get my next motor. It will be from Mast.
    XTF #2
    build start date June 19 2023

    GTM # 344
    Build Start December 2010
    First track day April 2013

  26. #26
    Senior Member The Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,004
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi John,

    it it sounds like you've had a really good experience with them. That's good information as well. It's amazing how people can go to the same vendor and get such different results. But FlowtownGTM seems to have had a good experience with them as well. Around here, that could constitute a pattern.... ��
    The Stig

    Some say, that I only know two facts about ducks, (both being wrong); and that if I could be bothered, I could solve the "da Vinci Code" in 47 seconds...
    All I know is that I'm called "The Stig".
    GTM #0081

  27. #27
    Senior Member flotowngtm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    145
    Post Thanks / Like
    I will say that about Mast service after the sale also. They area nothing like Kaytech. You call them up with questions or issues and they answer. Right then! I go home about every 8 months and am always surprised how the engine starts every time on the first try! If I was searching for a motor like you are I think I would get a GMPP and grab the mast electronics set to go with it instead of buying the GM computer. Save money on the motor and save time with the Mast electronics.

  28. #28
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
    Thank you Shane!

    I knew that you had seen your share of issues with LS crate engines along the way. I also remember you having multiple issues with leaking water pumps where the gaskets on the back covers leaked on a car that had been sent to Europe. That had to be a fun phone conversation...


    Mike
    Ahhhh....yes. I had forgotten all about that. That was actually a crate GMPP LS7 from SMC...and the crank pulley bolt came loose and backed out and wore a hole in the coolant line. That bolt is supposed to be torqued to some insane spec....I forget what....but I know it is not fun.....torque to yield. No possible way it was ever torqued at all from the factory.

    The waterpump was a different issue on a different car. Brand new waterpump that (I believe) Schwartz welded AN fittings on to. Coolant just poured out from behind it. Pulled the pump to find that the O-ring groove under the rear cover looked like it was machined with a chainsaw. This was a brand new OEM GM water pump. I could not simply replace the pump because the pump housing was already modified with the AN fittings.....so I spent a couple hours with a popsicle stick and some fine emory cloth to sand the bottom of the O-ring groove back down smooth......along with a good coating of permatex. Reinstalled the pump and it still leaked coolant out from under the head of one of the bolts that holds the pump to the engine block. Removed it again to find that there was a casting void from inside the bolt boss to the coolant passage. Filled the bolt boss with urethane, installed the bolt and torqued it down. Not what I would normally prefer to do, but it was either that or spend another couple hundred bucks on AN fitting and labor to weld them on to a new waterpump.

    And your mention of valve cover gaskets reminds me that we had a brand new GMPP LS376 with the same problem. Pulled the valve cover to find that a 4-5" section of the gasket had been rolled over and installed sideways in the groove. No, it didn't seal very well that way..... I think it was that same engine that, when I pulled the valve covers, the whole head was full of little orange pieces of crap.....looked like the lock-tite stuff that GM uses....when you pull one of those bolts out and the whole bolt is covered in that rubbery orange lock-tite......and it all rolls up into little chunks like when you use a pencil eraser. I picked out as much as I could......probably a thimble full....which looks like a lot....when it should be hospital-clean in there?
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  29. #29
    Senior Member HCP 65 COUPE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    NORTH CENTRAL CT
    Posts
    145
    Post Thanks / Like
    There is no excuse for an engine leaving GM with lose bolts anywhere, with the level of automation and the way they do the travelers for each assembly station. that is exactly what the computer tracking system is supposed to avoid. The way I see it is some one on the line saw a red flag in the traveler system before the Engine left and overrode the computer so they didn't get in trouble from there boss for a quality problem. This is why I would never buy a GM/Chevy anything ever its total crap its made as fast and as cheap as possible with no regard for the end customer especially if its a crate system with a disputable warranty.

    If you need to go with a GM engine for a GTM buy something from one of the Reputable engine builders or an Edelbrock crate something like that. In my opinion the best way is to buy the parts have the machine work done and assemble and measure it your self so you can take your time and double check everything, its really the only way to know for sure you are getting what you paid for.

    I have heard stories about Chrysler/Gm crate engines that would make your stomach churn.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Breeze

Visit our community sponsor