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Thread: C. Fl. Coupe build

  1. #41
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Thanks Frank. I got a good deal on it because the engine didn't run. Otherwise, your suggestion was plan A. It's more money than I wanted to lay out originally, but it's still a lot cheaper than the Atom, haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeromeS13 View Post
    That's funny!
    Thanks, I'll be sure to pass it along to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by longislandwrx View Post
    I'm going to look up these sorcerers and see what they've been up to.
    The lead sorcerer's name is Scott. He's a self-described Subaru junkie from way back.

    I know a handful of owners of cars at this power level built by reputable shops and tuned by reputable tuners, and they seem to spend much of their life up on lifts for some reason or another, and these are $60-80k wrx/sti builds.
    Yeah, I've noticed that too. I've also seemed to notice that a lot of the 'my $$$$ engine blew up' on naisoc and iwsti was either from a bad tune, or an attempt to spin the engine up above 8-9K. This allowed some EJ inherent oiling issue to rear its ugly head and cause friction generated glitter. Of course, there could always be something I'm missing, which is why I asked Metalmaker what would cause a 700 wheel EJ to be a time bomb. Like I said, I'm new to the subie game, and if there's some bit of information that prevented such a configuration from lasting more than 20k miles or so, I'd probably do something a bit more modest. In either case, I'm not going above 8K, one for oiling concerns, two, because I like a nicer, lower MPS in general.

    I think (hopefully) what will set me apart is that the money is already there and the overall drivetrain stress will be lower due to the lack of weight here. I plan on things to break. That's fine with me. I'm already expecting axles and a few of the gearsets in the trans to show their hand pretty early.

    As far as that shop goes, his engine builder is over 50 years old and has been doing Subaru work for 30+ years. He had similar qualifications for his tuner.

    That being said having been on forums for a while now, three things seem to happen with big builds.. The money never materializes and the car never exists. The money is there, the car is built and broken all the time and the owner loses interest in the money pit. The money is there the car is partially built and the owner loses interest. There are a few exceptions to the rule, and they tend to be shop/manufacturer cars with deep pockets.
    Of all these scenarios, number two is the most likely. I've had a few money pits (and they weren't bad), but a constant, never-ending money pit that provided no enjoyment because it was always under the knife would probably make me lose interest pretty quickly. Another thing that might be noteworthy: hobbyists give up quicker than gearheads. I didn't wake up one day and decide I wanted a fast car. Though this is the first kit I've built, its not the first car I've set up to make big power and get it to the ground.

    I will you luck and good fortune.

    I am hoping you make it happen.
    Thanks buddy. We should see a few months from now how this all turns out. I plan to learn a lot in the process, both from my experiences and from you guys (and gals). I'm sure at some point I'll design some solutions to contribute and otherwise be a part of the community for some time. You guys are alright.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  2. #42
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    50k at 700 whp, yeah that's not going to be easy if you actually drive it. My best bud had 560 whp fully built and he's a pro tuner and his motor still broke up. Subies make great power but they are in no way reliable at high power. Guys on this forum can't keep 350whp together in an 818 at the track due to many factors of the motors new mid engine location with lack of good cooling sources. You do realize to make 700whp you have make like 840 crank with the 818 15% drivetrain loss. Not many subies make that and if they do there dedicated drag cars and are always apart.

    From the countless big hp auntie builds I have seen, 2.0, 2.2, 2.5 strokers, etc etc, they have all eventually went south, but some have lasted longer. My buddy jimmy has a 600whp wagon built to the hills.He has a ej22. I have to say if your going big go 92-94 turbo legacy EJ 2.2 and is the only fully closed deck EJ. His motor has lasted about 60k with some minor issues. But he put at least 15k into the motor and supporting mods and he built it himself. That's about the power level your looking for. If you go with another block, your going to have to deck it to keep it together so to each there own. Good luck, it can be done, but it's not an exact science to keep it running very long.
    Last edited by metalmaker12; 03-28-2016 at 09:23 PM.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  3. #43
    Member tebriel's Avatar
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    I can't imagine what use 700hp would be on a car this light unless you're planning on taking it to the salt flats? So I've been around the wrx world for a number of years and the vast majority of people shooting for high horsepower end up in tears and a lot poorer. Just saying good luck :-D

  4. #44
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    From the countless big hp auntie builds I have seen, 2.0, 2.2, 2.5 strokers, etc etc, they have all eventually went south, but some have lasted longer.
    Which is fine and expected, but what caused the failures? And how many of those were e85/e98?

    In my case, the race tune and boost level will be quite different than the 'drive it around casually' tune.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  5. #45
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loring View Post
    Which is fine and expected, but what caused the failures? And how many of those were e85/e98?

    In my case, the race tune and boost level will be quite different than the 'drive it around casually' tune.
    They were all pretty much race gas tunes at that hp level, 100 plus octane but some were e85/e98. My tuner/ good friend Matt Miner, who is a Subaru tuning legend tuned most of them. He knows his way around the EJ's and tunes them safely. It's mostly always do to heat at some point. That's a lot of power to ask a small motor to push out, it is not expected to last very long in any 4 cyl really. I am not trying to crash you dreams, so go for it. Just trying to say that all my friends tune these things and have shops that do so, and they build them right, but with that power level don't expect it to last or be very usable in an 1800lb car bro.

    I give you props for your vision and way more if you actually do this.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  6. #46
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    It's mostly always do to heat at some point.
    Thanks buddy. I'll be sure to take extra notice of the temps I'm dealing with.

    That's a lot of power to ask a small motor to push out, it is not expected to last very long in any 4 cyl really.
    I hear ya. We're talking over 200BHP per hole in a 4 inch bore. That'd be like a 2jz or GTR running 1200BHP. It scares some people, I get it. If it lasts 20K miles, It'll probably be 3-5 years worth of good memories. I'll be happy if it lasts that long and I'll consider that a good buy.

    but with that power level don't expect it to last or be very usable in an 1800lb car bro.
    Eh, I'm worried about the tire width and not the weight. There's little about a lightweight car that makes me think that a solid output will be an issue. On the contrary.

    I give you props for your vision and way more if you actually do this.
    Thanks, I hope it does. We'll see. It's always possible that I show up one day and make the "I should have listened to you guys" post.
    Last edited by Loring; 03-29-2016 at 05:21 PM.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  7. #47
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tebriel View Post
    I can't imagine what use 700hp would be on a car this light
    Don't worry, I won't let anyone's lack of imagination hold me back.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  8. #48
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Anyone have any input on what secures the FFR fuel tank? Considering they've got me running brake lines dangerously close to it, I'm curious what keeps this thing from moving, and I can't see what does it from the manual.

    Nothing much more to report, though I'm coming up on engine install time a lot quicker than I thought I'd be.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  9. #49
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    old tank used two bolts in the back to rivnuts in the frame, 3 bolts in the front that go through the steel under the tank through tabs on the front of the tank.


    I imagine the new tank is the same or similar. page 172 on manual revision 1i



    you are right, I just looked at manual 1o

    instructions mention

    ¼” x 0.75” hex head bolts and nuts, fuel line components, fuel tank components.
    . 1/4” drill bit, drill, ½” wrench, ½” socket, ratchet.

    so there has to be a tab somewhere to drill through to secure it to the floor, that combined with the bulb seal should give it a snug fit.
    Last edited by longislandwrx; 04-20-2016 at 02:00 PM.
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  10. #50
    Moonlight Performance
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    New tank has no attachment mechanism other than the firewall to hold it down. Check out my build thread. I welded tabs to the top and bolted to them to the frame. The bottom of the tank will be held in securely by the firewall since the firewall bolts to the floor RIGHT in front of the tank... but I wouldn't let that be the only attachment.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Yep, and that allows for rearward movement, which is where the brake line is. Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it. I may just 3d print a set of spacers that go in the back as a prototype. Once the dimensions are good, I'll make a mold for the final product. It should be pretty easy to install from the engine compartment.

    As an aside, the servicability of the fuel tank is terrible. It would be really, really easy for FFR to make that panel under the fuel tank held in place by rivnuts so it drops out from the bottom.

    If I ever have an issue with mine, I'll likely just cut that panel from the bottom while the car is on a lift and make the necessary modifications.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  12. #52
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    I ran my brake lines down each side of the vehicle. Doesn't go near the fuel tank that way. I am running ABS though, so have three lines going back (left brake, right brake, and clutch). Two run down the driver side, one down the passenger.

  13. #53
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Yeah, I wish I'd read ahead a little and realized that the opening just behind where the manual instructs for the brake lines is for the coolant pipes, and has plenty of room.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  14. #54
    Senior Member UnhipPopano's Avatar
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    Hindsight, What about the radiator vent line? Wouldn't that make 4?

  15. #55
    Member jcpresto's Avatar
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    I have a coupe as well, what helped me plan everything I wanted to change was to read through the entire manual first and take notes. Helped me pre-plan a lot of things. I am working on wiring now and then first start hopefully very soon.
    Last edited by jcpresto; 04-20-2016 at 04:48 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnhipPopano View Post
    Hindsight, What about the radiator vent line? Wouldn't that make 4?
    That line is rubber hose. If you count everything i have 6 including 3 radiator lines. My awic hoses go through center tunnel.

  17. #57
    Member jcpresto's Avatar
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    I have heater and AC lines running through my center, I ran my intercooler lines on the outside.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    I picked up a pair of CNT 255lph e85 pumps. They had good lab test results and were noted for decent build quality. They also came with pigtails, pickup screens, and all the mounting pieces, which I appreciate. Others were all sold separately. I'll start fabbing my collection basket shortly. I think I'll print a prototype in the meantime to mount the pumps in.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  19. #59
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Nothing special to report lately, I've been tearing into the engine. Rode in a 700WHP STi last weekend, had 12k on the engine and he doesn't go easy on it. Runs and idles like it did when it was stock.

    I've got my half-height 3d print prototype of the collection basket, and all the dimensions look good. I'll get a metal version worked up shortly.

    20160530_222436_resized-1.jpg20160530_222513_resized.jpg
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  20. #60
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    The fuel collector is looking ugly as a result of a welding helmet that kept dropping the shade out on me. It'll need some lovin' to make it pretty, but as a prototype, I don't care so much, as long as it's functional. I'll begin its testing soon.

    With a proper helmet, I was able to get my TGVs done.

    20160629_135439_resized.jpg

    The engine and heads should be back from the machine shop early next week, so I should have some more shiny parts to take pictures of. OP mod list is updated.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  21. #61

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    Nicely done. Most opt to just thread a bolt in to plug the hole. Keep the pics coming.

  22. #62
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    That was my original idea, and they'll likely go unseen anyway, but someone (an engine machinist) suggested that a steel bolt in an aluminum piece such as that might become a problem.

    A lot of pictures will be coming once the heads show up. The block should be here shortly afterward.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  23. #63
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    What are you planning for engine management? Cobb AP? Standalone? Open source? Other? I'm leaning toward Megasquirt Gold box from www.efisource.com, the built in traction control system might just help putting down the higher hp levels some of us idiots seem drawn to.

  24. #64
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Initially I'll just be doing the AP, but more than likely, yes, end up running a standalone with TCS.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  25. #65
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    FYI, you can get the universal MS3 gold box setup for $950, you're already spending $600 for the AP...

  26. #66
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, I'll check into it.

    I went to the GM dealer and got the Sumitomo terminals for a few cents each, and directly wired them into the place of the fuel temp sensor (I believe that's what it is. Perhaps someone can confirm it for me) so that way I can have the pumps running independently at lower loads, and well as decreasing the current load through each wire. I've got a few more things to do before the water test, but it's pretty close. Engine stuff is held up because that's what engine stuff does.

    The fit of the module into the tank is tight enough that the level sensor will have to be installed after the module is in the tank. 2 screws, no big deal.

    20160726_210245_resized.jpg20160727_191254_resized.jpg20160727_194639_resized.jpg
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  27. #67
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    Some pics of the engine back from the machine shop. 9:1s, some big cams, and some rods that should take upwards 60lbs of boost. Not that I'm going there.

    20160820_175841.jpg20160821_152448_resized.jpg20160822_013605_resized.jpg20160822_013615_resized-1.jpg
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  28. #68
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    I found a small imperfection on the crank, so I'm replacing it. At $300 for an STi crank, it's probably not much more than the cost to micropolish it. While I'm waiting, I'm checking the mains. Rods are already measured.

    I had the mains pinned, which is apparently the difference between being solid and having a time bomb, as some called it, at 700WHP.

    20160828_141858_resized.jpg20160828_142037_resized.jpg20160828_142051_resized.jpg20160828_145356_001_resized.jpg
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  29. #69
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  30. #70

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    Keep it up with the photos. Eager to see the final result.

  31. #71
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  32. #72
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    very nice whos short block s that? what kinda power you looking for?

  33. #73
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    Any reason ypu went with the 2000's instead of some 625+ or oversized head studs? I would have thought being a closed deck block a 625+ would be minimum as you are obviously planning to push a fair bit of boost.

  34. #74
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    I'm kidding but did you use any oil/assembly lube putting this thing together? That's the driest looking short block I think I've ever seen. Way to keep it clean as hell.

    Also wondering about the head bolts. and that block insert, man those holes are small.
    Last edited by longislandwrx; 09-06-2016 at 04:19 PM.
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  35. #75
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    That's what I thought, but there are a few of them.

    And yeah, there's gratuitous use of assembly lube. If you're referring to that shot before the case halves went together, I hit that half of those mains right before I sealed the block, including 'injecting' some into the oil feed holes.

    My Subaru sherpa seems to think 2000s are good for this power level. I asked the same thing.

    The block is Bobby Ralston's at RJM in Tampa. He's also who did the rest of the machine work and sourced all the parts. High boost tune should run around 700WHP or so. I'll have some lower boost tunes for cruising around and such.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  36. #76
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    Yeh ok, im still not convinced about the 2000's being suitable for 700whp, but if thats what your engine builder recommended then who am i too argue.

  37. #77
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    He says he's run 43psi on the 2000s. As far as I'm concerned, if it comes apart due to the head studs, he's gonna be the first one to get a phone call about it, haha.

    Injectors showed up. FIC 2150s. Now I can mount the rails and fab the x-over pipe.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

  38. #78
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    This thing is going to be a beast. Better get some DSS axles if you haven't already!

  39. #79
    Member jcpresto's Avatar
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    I don't know what transmission your running. I have 411 rwhp and 418 lbs of torque. I have Moore blast plates I purchased and recommend.

  40. #80
    Senior Member Loring's Avatar
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    I'm going to need more than DSS axles. I'm trying to find a set of used rear knuckles so I can see how much room I've got to work with to machine them out to accept a larger bearing for a larger outer CV.

    But yes, that was my first impression about the stock axles when I took them out of the box. "Oh, these won't do."

    Transmission is stock. I'll beef it up when I do the axles. Until I do, no launches, of course. Engine is going in this weekend, it looks like.
    818C | Kit delivery: 3/19/16 | Status: Powertrain installed
    Daily: 2014 CTS-V - Fat and slow

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