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Thread: Rob T's 818R Build Thread

  1. #1

    Rob T's 818R Build Thread

    I just acquired Chad Plavan's 818R on 1/31/16. After his excellent work, and the advice from others on the forum, I am starting my own "build" thread. While the car is "built", I have a lot to learn, both mechanically and from a driving perspective. I plan to share my journey here and to learn from those who already well versed.

  2. #2
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    Welcome Rob to 818 community.

  3. #3
    Took the 818R to the autocross event with my local car club last weekend. This was my first real drive. I was learning a lot. I put some Sumitomo HTRII tires on it while I am learning (much cheaper to mess with than the Hoosier R comps Chad had on it - I'm saving those). The car is not really an autocross car, but it was a good place to learn the limits. Lots of power and good handling. Never got above 4000 rpm in 2nd gear, but had fun. I even spun it one time. Chad did a great job on the build. My best time was in the middle of the pack. About 44 seconds for the course set up. The fastest car was a modified Porsche Cayman set up for autocross with a really good driver - 40 seconds. I was quicker than a new Z06 vette and a GT500 Mustang. This car will be awesome on the track. I am working on getting the seat a little closer to the steering wheel and making the car "fit" me a little better.

  4. #4
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Nice, Chad did a great job on the build, but there is still much that can be done to truly make it your car. Unless he bought a new set, those slicks were pretty old already, if I were you I would use them, they're only going to get harder and less forgiving.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  5. #5
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longislandwrx View Post
    Nice, Chad did a great job on the build, but there is still much that can be done to truly make it your car. Unless he bought a new set, those slicks were pretty old already, if I were you I would use them, they're only going to get harder and less forgiving.
    Agree, check the date on the tires, these will start to get hard and lees then optimal in performance, use them up when you can
    Tony Nadalin
    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

  6. #6
    Glad you made it on here with one of the most tested 818's out there.
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  7. #7
    That's the plan. Use them soon. Chad only did one day at the track with them, so they are pretty good. I was thinking that the High Performance Summer street tires would be a little more forgiving and communicative at the limit while I learn the car. Much better to spin at 35mph than 100+. I am getting more familiar with the car all the time. Sounds, smells, etc. So far, I've added an expansion bottle to the AWIC system and calibrated the temp sensor for the inlet. Some work on the seat, traqdash and switches come this weekend to I can reach everything while strapped in. One more autocross at the beginning of April and then a trip to buttonwillow for an open traq day. I have the traqdash set up so I will be able to get some stats as I learn the car, change the tires, etc. Lots of fun so far.

  8. #8

    First Day at the Track

    Had my first track day yesterday, April 22. The day was cool about 72F and pretty windy. The venue was Buttonwillow in the 14CW configuration. I was pretty nervous as there was a lot to take in. The car ran well as I was gaining confidence. Water temp was about 180. The AWIC intake was ambient +7F and the oil was about 150F. Oil pressure was 80 psi.

    As I entered the pit after the first 20 minute session, I heard a metallic "clinking" from the rear end. Further investigation with some friendly, experienced racers at the track point to a problem with the left rear CV joint. When the car is in gear and you push roll it forward and backward, you can hear and feel the "clinking". The experienced guy who worked with me suggested I hang it up for the day as it was impossible to know how long this CV could last and there was no use grenading it. I was disappointed, but this is part of the game....

    Now comes the question: What should I replace this part with? Are there any parts that would be better suited for track use? Has anybody had any luck with any other parts? What is the best source of said parts?

    I am new to this game, excited to learn, and grateful for any suggestions.

    Rob T

  9. #9
    Moonlight Performance
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    A number of people have blown up axles and components of axles on the 818. The most common part to fail is the FFR-provided axles. They snap clean in half right where the splines start. My bet is if you take the axle out and remove the CV, you'll find the CV is probably fine but the axle is in two pieces.

    The best place to get strong axles is The Driveshaft Shop. They are not cheap but they can make you what you need and they will last. CVs will be stronger and so will axles. They rate them for like 500WHP and 750WHP so you'll have no issues. Cost is going to be somewhere around a grand for a set, if I recall correctly. There is a detailed thread here somewhere. Measure the length of the FFR provided axles (unbroken), and provide that to them, along with instructions that it's for a YYYY Subaru WRX and the INNER ends use FRONT-INNER CV joints, while the outer ends use REAR OUTER CV joints. They can then make you the custom setup you need.

  10. #10
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    A number of people have blown up axles and components of axles on the 818. The most common part to fail is the FFR-provided axles. They snap clean in half right where the splines start. My bet is if you take the axle out and remove the CV, you'll find the CV is probably fine but the axle is in two pieces.

    The best place to get strong axles is The Driveshaft Shop. They are not cheap but they can make you what you need and they will last. CVs will be stronger and so will axles. They rate them for like 500WHP and 750WHP so you'll have no issues. Cost is going to be somewhere around a grand for a set, if I recall correctly. There is a detailed thread here somewhere. Measure the length of the FFR provided axles (unbroken), and provide that to them, along with instructions that it's for a YYYY Subaru WRX and the INNER ends use FRONT-INNER CV joints, while the outer ends use REAR OUTER CV joints. They can then make you the custom setup you need.
    I was told 800wtq on the ones I have, which is double what I'm making.

    Measuring works great and is highly recommended, BUT if the car was built using the min track width FFR calls for you should be able to just call and tell them "I want what Six Star Cars ordered, twice" and they'll be right. Assuming you're using male stub shafts (which you should be) and haven't done anything crazy with the suspension.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  11. #11
    Thanks for the information. I am drinking from the firehose, but having fun. If I go the DSS route, is that a direct bolt in with the Legacy 5 speed and the 2009 WRX hubs or will other work be required?

    Also, I'm pretty sure the axle is not broken. After I got off the track I heard a "tinking" sound when the driveline loaded and unloaded. After I stopped, I could create the same sound by pushing the car forward and backward in gear. You could feel a "pop" each time and in each direction.

    The car is currently 285HP with 260ft-lb torque. I plan to track it and run some autocross, but mostly track. I do not plan on hard launches. If the axle is good and I just want to replace the outer CV's for now, are there better options than the factory CV's for the 2009 WRX? The DSS set up is an interesting option, as well.

  12. #12
    Today I spent some serious time on the axles. As I got the car from Chad already built, at least I can say "maintained, not serviced" even if I can't really say "built, not bought" yet. I jacked up the car and removed both the axles. Getting the pins out of the CV next to the transmission on the passenger side was a bit of a challenge. The driver's side came out with 4 taps. I spent two hours on the other side. To get the axle out, I had to completely dismantle the rear suspension, except for the shock mount. The first one took about 90 minutes. The second about 30 minutes after I remembered that I had some air tools ;-). I had to put everything together again an drop the car on its wheels so I could get accurate measurements for DSS who I will order new axles and CV's from on Monday. Chad always warned about "CV roulette" so I have the axles ready to send to DSS so they can match them exactly. The engine/trans were centered, perfectly, so that is good. Not sure why the outer CV failed, but as I moved it, it felt a bit "loose" and "dry". Might have thrown all the grease as there was a bit on the inside of the wheel. Anyway, it felt good to get into it today, and I learned a lot about my car. I am having fun, and that's what hobbies are about. Rob T.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Thanks for the information. I am drinking from the firehose, but having fun. If I go the DSS route, is that a direct bolt in with the Legacy 5 speed and the 2009 WRX hubs or will other work be required?

    Also, I'm pretty sure the axle is not broken. After I got off the track I heard a "tinking" sound when the driveline loaded and unloaded. After I stopped, I could create the same sound by pushing the car forward and backward in gear. You could feel a "pop" each time and in each direction.

    The car is currently 285HP with 260ft-lb torque. I plan to track it and run some autocross, but mostly track. I do not plan on hard launches. If the axle is good and I just want to replace the outer CV's for now, are there better options than the factory CV's for the 2009 WRX? The DSS set up is an interesting option, as well.
    FYI- you have 303 ft/pds of torque
    Thanks- Chad
    818R-SOLD!!!- Go Karted 7/20/14/ Officially raced NASA ST2- 2/28/15
    2016 Elan NP01 Prototype Racecar Chassis #20
    1969 Porsche 911ST Vintage Race Car
    1972 Porsche 911T (#'s matching undergoing nut & bolt resto in my garage)

  14. #14
    It's been a few weeks, but I wanted to update everyone on the progress. I ordered axles from Tad at the Drive Shaft Shop. I got them in a couple of weeks, which was awesome. I did measure my car as SixStar had suggested, but also sent in the old axles just to be sure. Tad and the team at DSS were great to work with. I got the axles back Friday and installed them this Saturday. They fit perfectly. I disassembled the rear suspension, but left the hub/brake assembly hanging from the shock. After removing the brake line, this left enough room to rotate the hub out of the way and align the outside spline in the hub. Installed the inside first as aligning the roll pin is easier done with the wheel side free. The new axles look great. Put everything back together and bled the brakes. Ready to hit the track on June 10, if all goes as planned.

  15. #15
    Hey do you any pics of the axles? What did DSS charge you for the axles?

  16. #16
    $899.99 Plus shipping. I did not think to take pictures but they were extremely well made. They came complete, ready to install, boots and all, so I never got a look at the CV's. Here is the information from the invoice.

    Factory Five 818 Complete Rear Axle Set
    Factory5 818 Kit Car
    22-3/8" Tip/BB (Both sides)
    2002-2007 WRX Rear Hubs
    Non STi WRX Trans (Male Stubs)
    1. Dimensions ----- 22-3/8" Tip/BB
    2. outer CV's ----- D4371 WRX Outer CV's
    3. inner CV's ----- 552 Series Housings with Machined
    Female Splines
    4. Bar length left ----- 19.75" 32/32 Spline Axle Bar
    5. Bar length right ------ 19.75" 32/32 Spline Axle Bar

    I got the lead on the forums, and had a discussion with SixStar. Tad at DSS is good to work with. This is what they do. It's great when you find someone passionate about what they are doing.

  17. #17
    Track Day at Buttonwillow on Saturday 9/10/16. Configuration 25CCW. Just learning heal/toe, so no driving comments, please. Running Hoosiers. Air temp was 100F. Oil temp was 205, AWIC 110 and water temp 195. Hit a max of 126 mph and 1.5g peak in the turns. Take a look at the "best lap" video. The car is amazing, and right now, far better than the driver.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L814vpY4uwY

  18. #18
    Smiles per miles is very high. . Keep getting that seat time. It takes awhile to get heel/toe down. It will come with practice. You are doing better than my buddy who has been racing for 5 years.
    Thanks- Chad
    818R-SOLD!!!- Go Karted 7/20/14/ Officially raced NASA ST2- 2/28/15
    2016 Elan NP01 Prototype Racecar Chassis #20
    1969 Porsche 911ST Vintage Race Car
    1972 Porsche 911T (#'s matching undergoing nut & bolt resto in my garage)

  19. #19
    Hi: Ran Buttonwillow open track day today. It was a prep day for POC, so there were a lot of amazing high dollar P-cars there along with some really good drivers. Had a really good day. Car ran well. We ran track setup #1 CCW with the A-section added. Lots of tricky stuff, but fun. Ambient air temp was 75-80. Oil Temp was in the 160-170 range with both front coolers blocked. Water temp was right at 160. I was seeing 89F after the AWIC cooler, so basically ambient +10F, which is great. Video and performance stats to follow after I have time to download all of that stuff. I did take a peek at the oil after the first session. Zero bubbles or foam. Pressure on the track when warm was about 80psi. 20-30 psi at idle when coming off the track. I did three session of about 7 - 8 laps. The Hoosier A7's seem to be holding up well. There are a few more days in them for sure. I would not say that I am as aggressive as I am going to be when my skills improve. Learning a lot. Fun level very high. 80F beats 100F any day, which was the temperature last time I was out in September.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Hi: Ran Buttonwillow open track day today. It was a prep day for POC, so there were a lot of amazing high dollar P-cars there along with some really good drivers. Had a really good day. Car ran well. We ran track setup #1 CCW with the A-section added. Lots of tricky stuff, but fun. Ambient air temp was 75-80. Oil Temp was in the 160-170 range with both front coolers blocked. Water temp was right at 160. I was seeing 89F after the AWIC cooler, so basically ambient +10F, which is great. Video and performance stats to follow after I have time to download all of that stuff. I did take a peek at the oil after the first session. Zero bubbles or foam. Pressure on the track when warm was about 80psi. 20-30 psi at idle when coming off the track. I did three session of about 7 - 8 laps. The Hoosier A7's seem to be holding up well. There are a few more days in them for sure. I would not say that I am as aggressive as I am going to be when my skills improve. Learning a lot. Fun level very high. 80F beats 100F any day, which was the temperature last time I was out in September.
    Great to hear Rob,
    All your numbers look great.
    Do you know the temp rating of your thermostat?
    My son, wife, and I waiting for a plane in vegas.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 11-04-2016 at 09:37 PM.
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  21. #21
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    Sounds like a great day Rob. Looking forward to seeing your logs and video.

  22. #22
    Checked with Chad on the thermostat question from Bob. He thought a 170F. He changed from stock, for sure.

  23. #23
    Here is my best lap from Friday. Buttonwillow 1A CCW 2:23.683 Lots to learn still. Heel and toe is still poor(me learning). From the Traqmate GPS: Left 1.55G max, Right 1.82G max. Still had a lot of fun.


  24. #24
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Like ^^^^^^
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  25. #25

  26. #26
    Just to be fair, and honest, this was an instantaneous number. There are a lot of numbers in the 1.3 - 1.5 range left and right, and almost always 1G braking.

  27. #27

  28. #28
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Hey rob,
    Your g force circle look great.
    The lateral force a mid corner at 1.4 to 1.6 is great.
    The acieration is a nice straight along the bottom is probably mostly 3rd gear limit.
    The top of the graph is braking. I think you can get more there as your confidence increases.
    Take my comment with the thought that I am just learning also.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  29. #29
    If others have this capability as more cars get to the track it will be great to compare setups, etc.

  30. #30
    Hi: I am looking for some help. I was at Buttonwillow today for a track event. I started the car on the trailer and it ran for a few seconds. I had inadvertently left the car in gear and let out the clutch and killed it (I had wheels blocked). It did not restart. I towed the car to the track 9in the morning and it was between 32 and 35 degrees the whole way there. On the COBB unit, the battery voltage was right around 12V and pulled down to 10 or so when cranking. The car would not fire. We tried jumping with a running car and it would turn over (sort of a lopey turn over), but would not start. Chad suggested I might have blown a fuse, but I checked the one on the fuel pump and that one is good - I can hear the fuel pumping run and then stop. I brought the car home, charged the battery, and tried again. The voltage was 12.8 and pulled down to about 10V when cranking, but the car would not fire. There is a gas/fuel smell that makes me think it is flooding without firing. I am hoping the helpful group of experts on the forum can give me a few things to troubleshoot. I've killed a lot of stick shift cars before without breaking anything....The car has always started without issue although it usually runs rough until it gets warmed up. The last time I ran it before today was three week ago when I changed the oil. BTW...as the car is cranking, the oil pressure is coming up on the gauge. Thanks

  31. #31
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Hi: I am looking for some help. I was at Buttonwillow today for a track event. I started the car on the trailer and it ran for a few seconds. I had inadvertently left the car in gear and let out the clutch and killed it (I had wheels blocked). It did not restart. I towed the car to the track 9in the morning and it was between 32 and 35 degrees the whole way there. On the COBB unit, the battery voltage was right around 12V and pulled down to 10 or so when cranking. The car would not fire. We tried jumping with a running car and it would turn over (sort of a lopey turn over), but would not start. Chad suggested I might have blown a fuse, but I checked the one on the fuel pump and that one is good - I can hear the fuel pumping run and then stop. I brought the car home, charged the battery, and tried again. The voltage was 12.8 and pulled down to about 10V when cranking, but the car would not fire. There is a gas/fuel smell that makes me think it is flooding without firing. I am hoping the helpful group of experts on the forum can give me a few things to troubleshoot. I've killed a lot of stick shift cars before without breaking anything....The car has always started without issue although it usually runs rough until it gets warmed up. The last time I ran it before today was three week ago when I changed the oil. BTW...as the car is cranking, the oil pressure is coming up on the gauge. Thanks
    Rob
    When you let clutch it might have built up torque in the drive train, tires and straps.
    then it stall ins spun the engine backwards. This might have caused the timing belt to jump a few teeth on the sprockets.
    I would inspect the timing of the sprockets timing.
    Make sure the anti jump guards and in place and adjusted properly.
    timing belt anti jump.jpg

    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  32. #32
    Update: All fuses OK. Voltage from the battery to the frame is 13.2 V. Tried starting again. Cranked then got what sounded like a weak backfire out of the exhaust. Cranked some more and got one more "backfire". These were not loud bangs.

    The engine was running (for a few seconds) when I stalled it letting out the clutch. After that, it did not run (has not run again). Would the engine run at all if the belt skipped a tooth? I found some other stuff online that says if you skip more than 2 or three, you get interference and things get bent. Would it matter what pulley slipped where? I am out of my depth here and there are lots of smart people on the forum. Pulling the cover for the timing belt looks like major surgery, at least a fair bit of coolant tubing will come of along with the associated mess. I read about some inspection ports, but could not identify them. Does anybody know about their existence?

    Any other ideas? I'd like to start simple and move to complicated. I trust you guys....

    Rob

  33. #33
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Rob
    Back fires means that you are getting gas and spark. still could be a timing problem.
    If he engine didn't spin backwards, I doubt the timing skipped a tooth. But if it did spin backwards, it is possible.
    Here is a sketch of what you will be looking for.




    The red marks in the sketch above are what has to line up.
    this is a real picture of an aligned crank.



    To get the timing cover off.
    Remove alternator and dry sump belts.
    Remove harmonic balancer from crank shaft.
    Remove 3 piece timing belt cover.
    Check with Chad, I think he changed the oil pump with the engine in the car.
    Bob
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 12-18-2016 at 08:38 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  34. #34
    I am not sure if this may be a possibility but it might be worth checking. If any of the harness are support with little slack, it is possible when the clutch was released engine movement may have strained one of the connectors. I would inspect any connectors and wire that this could have happened to.

  35. #35
    Thanks, everybody for the things to look at.

  36. #36
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Rob, this exact thing happened to me - I down shifted when making a turn and the engine died. It would crank and fuel pump worked but it wouldn't start. In my case, it was one of those larger 30A (pink) fuses that provides power to the ECU and OBD2 connector; basically the engine didn't start because the ECU wasn't getting any power. Are you certain that the large fuses are all still intact? Can you connect via OBD2 and scan for codes? After I replaced that large fuse, everything worked fine.

    JCASE 30A fuse
    jcase.jpg

  37. #37
    Thanks. I have different looking fuses, but I checked all of them yesterday for continuity with my multimeter. Besides looking good, they are all good. I was hoping it would be a fuse, but it appears they are OK. If somebody has a better way to check fuses, please let me know. I pulled the fuse and put my multimeter across the prongs - on continuity mode.

  38. #38
    A lot of fuses have little tabs sticking out the top so you can check continuity without pulling them.

    Can't really say it's a better way to test, them, but it is more convenient. Of course, not all fuses are like this, but I'm always surprised at how many people never noticed.

    fuse.jpg

  39. #39
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Thanks. I have different looking fuses, but I checked all of them yesterday for continuity with my multimeter. Besides looking good, they are all good. I was hoping it would be a fuse, but it appears they are OK. If somebody has a better way to check fuses, please let me know. I pulled the fuse and put my multimeter across the prongs - on continuity mode.
    Did you verify that your ECU is receiving power? Are you able to connect to it via the OBD2 port?

  40. #40
    Thanks for the great tip. I saw the little tabs, but the fuses are really hard to get at (you know, upside down with my head between the fuel cell and the dash). I pulled them by feel and tested them "on the bench".

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