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Thread: Hard Top install tips - add yours

  1. #1
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Hard Top install tips - add yours

    I just got my 818 retrofit hard top 2 days ago but I thought I'd start a thread where we can list some installation tips.
    Headliner:I learned that 3M Headliner and Fabric adhesive ($18.99) doesn't work holding our aluminum headliner to fiber glass. I followed the instructions exactly with the hard top upside-down and weighted for 4 hours. On the car overnight in the garage it came down. Next, I'll try silicone sealant and report back. I'm in a perfect test location with 115 degrees today!

    Hatch hinge: The manual (1P) says to mount the hinge arm to the hatch with 1/4x20 bolts. What it doesn't say is that you should first mount rivnuts in the hatch cover. Nate at FFR said that there is aluminum inside the molded hatch cover so rivnuts will hold.
    Last edited by AZPete; 04-03-2017 at 09:29 PM.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

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    Did Nate happen to tell you where the struts for the hardtop mount to. I can help a little later with some tips for how I got my hardtop installed.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    Silicone sealant will not hold up the aluminum headliner plate. That is what I tried first before the top was installed so it had 1 day with weights holding it down and it fell.

    My latest try was a combination of 3M Outdoor Carpet tape and Type 90 spray adhesive. Since my top is installed I clamped the headliner in place for a week while I was away. Yesterday I undid the clamps and after 1/2 a day in the garage with temps in the 90's the headliner is sagging in the middle and not supporting its own weight. Not looking too promising...
    Last edited by mikeb75; 06-21-2016 at 07:13 AM.
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

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    So there is no way that it's going to hold with some heat insulation and fabric in place then...

  5. #5
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    maybe, if you use the weatherstrip on the upper firewall to physically lock the headliner in place in the back. I was not able to do that on my last attempt since the car is mostly assembled at this point.

    I don't think adhesives alone are going to hold. A few tabs up front and the firewall in back might be enough...

    looking like a winter project for me...
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

  6. #6
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    I have found that the 3M's automotive two sided molding tape will hold through thick and thin. You need to prep the surfaces first, making sure there is no mold wax, grease, etc., and it might not hurt to etch the surfaces slightly for a better bond. Heat does not seem to effect it, as I have used it on my fender vents right over the headers with no release taking place over many years.

  7. #7
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    I did a search and found this...

    http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=193906


    http://www.glueplace.com/sprays-for-automotive-trim/

    You should make sure the surface is clean , get all the mold release off. That may be why the glue isn't sticking.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    I'd agree with mold release... except I coated the inside of my hard top with spray-on sound deadener - specifically DEI Boom Mat.

    But I'll definitely read the links you provided as I've also had trouble bonding aluminum to the inside of the panels for anchor points.

    Also of note, is the automotive molding tape thick (ish)? The carpet tape I used is thin, so there is no -give isn't the right word... padding?
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

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    Of those are neat. I think that's the way to go than at least for the time being. How many did you end up using?

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    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    I didn't see Mike's post before I tried silicone sealant but he's right that it doesn't hold. It took me 2 hours to clean it off the fiberglass roof an the aluminum headliner panel. Next, I got 2 packages of 3M molding tape since AC Bill has always had good ideas back when I built a roadster. The molding tape is holding after 12 hours in a hot garage and I'll report back here after more time and after sitting in the HOT sun - today 112. Thanks, AC Bill.
    Last edited by AZPete; 06-22-2016 at 12:32 PM. Reason: typo
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  12. #12
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    Sorry Pete, I didn't see your post for a day. could have saved you some clean up work. Stoked aout the 3M tape! GL!
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

  13. #13
    Member jcpresto's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried 3M panel bond? We use to use that on our SEMA cars. I just finished my go kart stage in 818C so u haven't gotten to this yet.

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    Pete are you using any insulation on top of the aluminum/headliner?

  15. #15
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    No insulation between the roof and the aluminum panel but I have applied 1/4" closed-cell foam to the aluminum, then wrapped it in vinyl upholstery material.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  16. #16
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    112* in Scottsdale today..yikes..

    I guess AC is a basic requirement for a roadster if you have intentions of driving it in the warmer months. Is this why you sprang for the hardtop..keep the sun off, and the cooler air inside?

    How'd the molding tape hold up? Still hanging in there?

  17. #17
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Yup, Bill, the molding tape is still holding. I couldn't drive my roadster from June to September unless early morning or night. With this 818 I planned on a top, soft or hard, from the beginning so I figured out the A/C. I'm 6'3" so I have to fold up like a pocket knife to get in and out with the new hard top mounted.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  18. #18
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Another tip: heat the rubber gasket for the inside window! I couldn't even get it into the aluminum opening, the first step, after many attempts. Then, after 2 hours in the hot sun, I was able to get it installed in the first attempt. Use WD-40 and lots of patience, especially in the corners. (estimate: one 6-pack)
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  19. #19
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    I'm really happy that most of the hard top seams sanded down to disappear! Like Metros did, I carefully sanded and only a few places showed a black line where the gel coat was not deep enough. Here's the worst spot and it can be covered, I think, with the gel coat repair kit.
    left rear 6-26-16 75.jpg

    I'm really happy about the finish, though it took a lot of tedious work. I block sanded with 320, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 and then used an electric buffer with a foam pad and 3M Marine Finesse-It II Glaze. I learned gel coat finishing techniques from boat sites. I also learned that short-cutting any of the sandpaper grades results in do-overs.

    top shine 6-26-16 75.jpg
    Last edited by AZPete; 06-30-2017 at 11:02 AM. Reason: added photo
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  20. #20
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    Very nice looking results!

    My HT was also pretty good re. the seams. I could be less careful since I was covering them, but I had thin spots in about the same area as you show and another closer to the back.
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

  21. #21
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    After six weeks in a hot garage the 3M molding tape is still holding! I'm in the AZ desert so hot means HOT (100+)! Thanks AC Bill. I bought 2 packages of the molding tape at AutoZone and used it all.
    Ceiling.JPG

    EDIT: After 10 weeks it's coming down!! See post #26 below.
    Last edited by AZPete; 06-30-2017 at 11:04 AM. Reason: replaced photobucket photo
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  22. #22
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    If there is ever a place for a threaded stud, it is at the hard top mount behind the doors. The manual says to drill through the top and use a bolt but I epoxied a threaded stud to the inside so the mount is hidden and there is not a bolt head showing. Now, I'll make a cover for that gap to seal the engine compartment from the passenger area so this mount will be hidden from the inside also.

    Mount behind door.jpg
    Last edited by AZPete; 06-30-2017 at 11:06 AM. Reason: replaced photobucket photo
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  23. #23
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    Pete, looking good, I'll use this thread when I hit that point.
    Got the Vintage Air installed and plumbed in drier and condenser.

  24. #24
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Thanks to Jim Haar, I called FFR and they emailed me the latest manual revision: 1Q. This revision has good stuff about the hard top, power windows, inside and outside door handles, etc. If you don't have 1Q call FFR. I also received a box with the Hard Top Update Kit so if you already have the hard top you might be getting this stuff, too.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  25. #25
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    Hey AZPete. I live in Maricopa and work in Scottsdale. If you ever want to show off your car, let me know. I'd like to see it.

  26. #26
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Damn, my headliner is coming down! It looked like the 3M 2-sided molding tape was working after 6 weeks but now the aluminum panel is coming down. I prepped the fiberglass top and the aluminum as per the directions, used 2 rolls and the car has been in the garage for 10 weeks now. With the top mounted, not upside down, epoxying the McMaster pieces that Ewingate suggested would be difficult so if there are any other ideas, I'm listening.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

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    Pete,
    Sorry to hear headliner is falling, sounded like it was going to work !
    I have heard good things re 3m 1357, have not used it tho....

  29. #29
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    For a headliner....Spray/brush/or roll this.Then paint it what ever color you wish....done !
    >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Quart-Spra...xXF~t5&vxp=mtr

  30. #30

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    I turned the top upside down, put 8 3/4 in" blobs of silicone around the edge and a couple in the center and it stuck to the alum/ fiberglass just fine. The only way silicone won't work is if it doesn't cure. I have ran into that before, in most cases the silicone had been exposed to very low temps (freezing). This little car is an intense build to try to keep things tight and right...da Bat

  31. #31
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    To make it easier to get the felted molding onto the edge of the door opening, sand down the sharp edge of the fiberglass. This edge will be hidden inside the molding once you get it on, so don't worry about appearance.

    Also, if you are looking for rear hatch strut instructions, go to this thread:
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...t-instructions]
    Mikeb75 has done a great job explaining how he mounted his hatch struts.
    Last edited by AZPete; 09-15-2016 at 04:25 PM.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  32. #32

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    Thanks for the deck strut info (get to do that in a couple days) Like you I thinned the edge but still not thrilled with the felts. I was playing around with some bulb seal (same as used for the rear hatch) was worried that there would be to much friction of glass on rubber but found the glass doesn't contact till the last few inches. gonna look on McMaster for something a little wider to cover the 3/4 frame. let cha know...da Bat....btw, these cars a lotta work but I'm almost done! WooooHoooo!

  33. #33
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    For the interior window panel, the manual says 2 people are needed but I did it alone easily, and with a cleaner look. My upper panel of the rear firewall (behind the seats) is held with 5 rivnuts along the top so I measured the 5 positions and then marked the 5 locations on the bottom of the window panel. Next, I drilled holes and elongated the holes to 5 vertical slots. With the seats moved forward, I placed the window panel on the rivnut bolts so the top of the panel was below the roof. Next, I raised the window panel up to the roof, checked with a bubble level, and tightened the rivnuts to hold it in place. Then I drilled out the seat belt mount holes and mounted the belts. This method also enabled me to use a clear edge molding for a cleaner look than the fat black bulb seal in the manual. For a photo go up to Post #21.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  34. #34
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Here's what I've learned about the power windows . . . so far. The first window took me about 8 hours and the other window 2 hours. (During that time, Wayne probably built an entire engine, and mowed the lawn!)
    Wiring: The manual is clear and detailed so follow it to connect to your wiring system. I thought I'd check my work but wasted time when my continuity checker showed no power to the window motor wires. It turns out that it's a mystery that power reverses somehow so just connect the two wires and the motor will work. Wiring gurus will likely explain this "mystery".

    Mount the window mechanism loosely, then check your door alignment. If the door is not mounted perfectly, you'll have problems getting the window right. Make sure that the rear and bottom outside edge of the door is exactly flush with the edge of the side sail. Check the door gap and latch to make sure they are good also. I would have saved a lot of time and aggravation by fixing door alignment first!

    The manual says simply, "cut the top of the door", but I learned some stuff by trial-and-error. With the door closed, mark a straight line from the ends of the window gasket. Extend the line 3/8" past the gasket in the front and rear. Next, measure 13.5" back from the front of the straight line and mark the spot. Using something flexible, clamp it at the ends of the straight line, bend it to 3/8" outside at the 13.5" mark, and draw a curved line. This will be the inside surface of the closed window.
    1 Mark door top.jpg

    For the supplied rubber window seal on the outside, I measured and marked a curved line 3/4" from the previous curved line. I then carefully cut out the space between the two curved lines.
    IMG_3342.JPG

    Slide the glass down through the slot into the clamps of the mechanism, then adjust forward/back, in/out until the glass seals against the door gasket. Add the rubber seal to the outside edge of the opening and add stop screws as per manual. My windows now work smoothly and seal well, but I'm still looking for the best way to finish the inside edge of the window opening. I wish had know this before I cut the first door, so hopefully this will help you.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  35. #35
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    As you've seen from all the above posts, the headliner is a problem if you try using the aluminum panel, as I did. Someone, but now I forgot who, was successful gluing a soft headliner in place and not using the aluminum panel. I think now FFR may be including a foam-backed piece of fabric so use that or some other soft stuff and not the aluminum panel. Check out a yoga pad for a soft, insulating headliner.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  36. #36
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    I just got my coupe and it came with both the alum piece and a foam backed headliner.
    How do u get a smooth headliner without the alum piece??

  37. #37
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    You could try cutting a piece of foam core (poster board) to fit, it should be significantly lighter than the Al. Then glue it to the HT &glue the headliner. That is what i'm considering.
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

  38. #38
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Foam core is a good idea, Mike.

    The roof vents need to be cut open to fit whatever air tubes you will be using. It's easiest to do this when the hard top is upside down. I found that 3-inch flex tubes fit nicely over the roof ducts, so I cut out the hole to the maximum I.D.
    roof duct tube.JPG
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  39. #39
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    2,374
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    FFR used the same pins & clips to mount the hard top as used for the engine covers of the 818S. I wanted hidden fasteners so I epoxied threaded studs to the underside of the hard top at the back corners, back center and along the sides. At the back corners I made a diagonal steel brace that the threaded stud fastens to. At the sides, I was able the attach to the shock brace and used a 3-inch tab below the quarter window to hold the seam to the side sail.
    hardtop middle mount.jpghardtop rear mount.jpg
    rear corner - left.JPG
    Last edited by AZPete; 04-18-2017 at 06:22 PM.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  40. #40
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
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    Nicely done, Pete. Very clean looking.

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