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Thread: Rear Wheel won't fit on the axle

  1. #1
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Rear Wheel won't fit on the axle

    Tried on a couple of the rims today (Halibrand's 17x9 F, and 17x10.5 R, on a Moser M9/Ford 9"). I only got as far as 1 rim on the front and 1 rim on the rear, both on the left side. As per a lot of the posts, very little clearance with calipers, e-brake linkage, shock mounts, etc., but at least nothing was hitting or dragging. Before I could try out the fit on the right side, I Did run into a problem though. The rear wheel will not sit down flush on the axle/brake rotor because the boss on the axle is bigger than the inside of the rim. The axle boss measures 3.0585" (sort of a strange dimension, maybe it's a slip fit for 3 1/16, or 3.0625), and the rim opening on the inside is about 2.78" (I couldn't get my calipers in there for an accurate measurement, but I suppose it could be 2 25/32 or 2.78125, another weird dimension.)

    So... to get these things to fit, something needs to be changed: Either, I need new axles (I don't know if the 9" rear end would even have such axles available), or machine down the boss on the axle to fit inside the rim (a pain in the you-know-what to take apart the rear end to get them out of the rear end housing), or machine the opening in the back side of the rims to fit the existing boss.

    Anybody run into this before? What was the fix? Any experts have any other ideas? Thanks.
    Last edited by boat737; 06-26-2016 at 12:28 AM.
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
    Young & Dumb Stuff: 427w Dart, TKO600, 3 link Moser M9/Ford 9", 3.5:1, Eaton TruTrac Posi. Graduation Thread

  2. #2
    Senior Member Gordon Levy's Avatar
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    You will need to order new axles. Make sure you let them know what the hub center dimension is and they will build it for you. It's just going to cost $350
    99/2000 NASA PSO Champion-2005 west coast FFR challenge series Champions
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  3. #3
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Crap. I was hoping that wasn't going to be the fix. I guess it will be a phone call to Moser tomorrow and and start another unexpected project. On the bright side, at least they are new, and will hopefully slide right out.

    IMG_0298.JPG

    And then the next issue: The brake rotor center hole will be too big for the new axle (it fits perfect now). So will have to shim it, or say it aint so, a new rear brake rotor?
    Last edited by boat737; 06-26-2016 at 09:22 AM.
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
    Young & Dumb Stuff: 427w Dart, TKO600, 3 link Moser M9/Ford 9", 3.5:1, Eaton TruTrac Posi. Graduation Thread

  4. #4
    Senior Member CDXXVII's Avatar
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    My rotors came with a shim/spacer to apparently address this issue. No idea where to purchase a set but Gordon may be able to help. http://levyracing.com/

    Mine look a little like these. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...ml#post2568282

  5. #5
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Couple of questions. The left side fits right? Are the bosses on both axles the same? Are the center holes in both of the wheels the same? Before you call Moser, measure all this so you know. As I have found out the hard way, there are two somewhat common boss/wheel hole diameters for Mustang stuff. My Moser axles are both too small for my Bullitt wheels (three sets from different suppliers over a 7 year time frame but all the wheels are the same) so I use spacer rings. I don't know all the background on these dimensions, I just had to adapt to them.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

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    bobl's Avatar
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    I would think a machine shop (or Moser) could trim a lip on the axle to fit your wheel, but still leave the inside of the lip to fit the rotor.

    Bob

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    bobl's Avatar
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    Hey boat737, I've seen your user name on some boating sights. Are you still into boating? I've been into performance boats for years. I'm retired now but used to build custom boat engines and was a Nordic boat dealer for a few years before the economy went to crap.

    Bob

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    Senior Member MPTech's Avatar
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    I don't know how much different your 9" is, but my wheels wouldn't seat properly on my 8.8 IRS when I built it.
    It was barely missing, but just enough to not sit flat. I took a round file to the inside of the wheel and was able to clearance it enough to seat.
    Is there a reason why the wheel couldn't be taken to a Machine Shop and enlarge enough to fit (or clearance it yourself this a Dremel or similar?) Sure seems cheaper and easier than new axles!
    F5R #7446: MK4, 302, T5 midshift, 3.55 Posi IRS, 17" Halibrands
    Delivered 4/4/11, First start 9/29/12, Licensed 4/24/13, off to PAINT 2/15/14!! Wahoo!

  9. #9
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    Couple of questions. The left side fits right? Are the bosses on both axles the same? Are the center holes in both of the wheels the same? Before you call Moser, measure all this so you know. As I have found out the hard way, there are two somewhat common boss/wheel hole diameters for Mustang stuff. My Moser axles are both too small for my Bullitt wheels (three sets from different suppliers over a 7 year time frame but all the wheels are the same) so I use spacer rings. I don't know all the background on these dimensions, I just had to adapt to them.
    Good catch, but, alas, not the problem. The Fronts fit OK. The rotors have a bigger hole but have a centering ring, and the wheel fits perfect on the boss without any shim/spacer/adapter. The rears are the problem. The Boss's on the axle flange are 3.058 on the rears, which is the right size for the Wilwood brake rotor, but not the wheel centering hole. All four wheels measure about 2.77-2.78. That's about as close as I can measure down inside the rim.

    I did talk to a friend in AZ, and he said it would be a simple job to open up the hole on the rim to fit the axle boss. Only need about another 3/32 extra radius (a more precise measurement will be done for an exact fit), and less than 1/4 inch deep. The wheels look like they have plenty of material and would not be compromised. And it's not like they will be rotated on the car, so right now I'm thinking of having him just open up the rear wheels.

    I am amazed, on a daily basis, how these unexpected issues keep popping up. (on a different issue, I'm currently trying to find Brake Fluid compatible hose to go from the three CNC reservoirs to the master cylinders. Two different sized of course. And not having much luck.)
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
    Young & Dumb Stuff: 427w Dart, TKO600, 3 link Moser M9/Ford 9", 3.5:1, Eaton TruTrac Posi. Graduation Thread

  10. #10
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPTech View Post
    I don't know how much different your 9" is, but my wheels wouldn't seat properly on my 8.8 IRS when I built it.
    It was barely missing, but just enough to not sit flat. I took a round file to the inside of the wheel and was able to clearance it enough to seat.
    Is there a reason why the wheel couldn't be taken to a Machine Shop and enlarge enough to fit (or clearance it yourself this a Dremel or similar?) Sure seems cheaper and easier than new axles!
    That's what I'm thinking at this point-a good machine shop. I think there is too much material to be removed for me to tackle it with a file or grinder. The difference is a 2.77 inch hole going on a 3.0585 boss. Plus I want that hole dead center, and doing it by hand, at least by my hand, would open up another whole list of problems. Looks like I will be driving out to Kingman with two rear wheels to get machined.
    Last edited by boat737; 06-28-2016 at 05:30 PM.
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
    Young & Dumb Stuff: 427w Dart, TKO600, 3 link Moser M9/Ford 9", 3.5:1, Eaton TruTrac Posi. Graduation Thread

  11. #11
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Hey boat737, I've seen your user name on some boating sights. Are you still into boating? I've been into performance boats for years. I'm retired now but used to build custom boat engines and was a Nordic boat dealer for a few years before the economy went to crap.

    Bob
    Yup that was probably me. Been on River Dave's Place and Performance Boats forums. Did a lot of Ski Racing with two different Frequent Flyers (both Schiada's). I was the skier. Here's the first one.
    boat1a.jpg
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
    Young & Dumb Stuff: 427w Dart, TKO600, 3 link Moser M9/Ford 9", 3.5:1, Eaton TruTrac Posi. Graduation Thread

  12. #12
    bobl's Avatar
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    Man, you've got my respect skiing behind those bad *** boats. I'll drive them but gave up skiing 30 years ago. I talked with Schiada about becoming a dealer but things went south before we could put anything together. I brought the Nordics to Texas but most of the West Coast style boats were a hard sell. I still have a 28 Nordic with a supercharged 502. Now the Cobra bug has bitten hard so not much boat stuff going on.

  13. #13
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Not to hijak my own thread, but yeah, fun stuff. I still ski, but gave up racing a while back. Sold my Tournement ski boat for this FFR project (that was a great boat). Both Schiada's are also gone now. Had three boats going at one time, but now just down to the 24' deck boat, the wife's boat. It's the only 24' boat that turns into a 36' boat when I go to clean it. So, I still boat, still ski, still fly, still ride... If it uses gas, I pretty much still do it.
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
    Young & Dumb Stuff: 427w Dart, TKO600, 3 link Moser M9/Ford 9", 3.5:1, Eaton TruTrac Posi. Graduation Thread

  14. #14
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Success. My friend in AZ machined out the wheel centers to 3.065", to fit my Moser M9/Ford 9" rear end axles (that have a boss of 3.060". This measurement was with a micrometer, the original dimension mentioned at the beginning of this thread was taken with a caliper, and apparently, was .0015" off). The fit is perfect I might add. I can start to think about ordering up tires now. The engine is scheduled to show up in 6 weeks or so. Things getting exiting now.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by boat737; 07-28-2016 at 12:05 AM.
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
    Young & Dumb Stuff: 427w Dart, TKO600, 3 link Moser M9/Ford 9", 3.5:1, Eaton TruTrac Posi. Graduation Thread

  15. #15
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    I don't remember the year it changed but I ran into that issue awhile back. The truck axles started having a smaller boss than the cars a few years back so while they look the same the truck wheels do have a smaller center hole and won't fit on a car. That sounds like what happened to you on your wheels.
    HTH
    DB

  16. #16
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    I got a similar problem here.
    ordered the Full kit including rear axle and 15" wheels, problem was factory five made the wrong request to moser, so the send the
    short one. Finally yesterday the re-ship the right one (4" longer) and everything fits perfectly, so...
    yes Axles will be your main suspect

  17. #17
    Senior Member Mike N's Avatar
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    Standard hub-centric diameter for later model Fords (Mustang etc) is 2.8" (2.796" dia). The axles (and brake rotors) must have originally been specified for a specific wheel.
    Mike............

    FFR2100 - 331 with KB supercharger - T5 - 5 link rear 3.08's and T2 Torsen.

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