Engine Rebuild Recommendations

[jaw777]

So I have finished my 818S build with a 2002 WRX donor. It was high mileage so now I am trying to budget and plan for the engine rebuild for next year and am looking for some advice for when I set my budget. I do plan to put this car on the track occasionally, but I am not a hard core racer. Nonetheless I also don't want to blow up the engine on a track day for lack of oil. Based on what I have researched I am looking for feedback on the following:

Since I have a 2.0L I am planning on sticking with that. I get the challenges and cost of the turbo, but switching to a 2.5L would definitely introduce challenges with the ECU and possibly challenges mating it to my transmission. (Confirmation of my assumption would be helpful)

I would like to generate 300 whp +/- with a durable engine and if possible I'd like to keep my budget at $7500 or less, but that is also what this thread is about. If I need a larger budget I want to know now.

I am considering long block and short block options. (I assume a stage I short block would be a good starting point) That will depend on recommendations on the items below. No point in paying for it in a long block to remove it.

So I would like feedback on the following:

Recommended builders for short or long blocks?

Oil delivery - Is a dry sump necessary or have others had success with the Killer B pan/baffles or other options. (Obviously a dry sump drives the cost and complexity up substantially and probably beyond my capabilities)

Increase oil pump size? - If so to what?

Fuel Delivery - I am leaning towards new fuel rails/lines to clean up the engine.

Fuel Injectors - I have seen a huge range on these. Any recommendations would be helpful. No point in overdoing it, but I don't want the engine starved.

Fuel pump size - I assume it must work with the above, but I don't know to match all of that.

Any changes to the intake or throttle body? (I have already completed the tgv delete)

Turbo Charger - Should I (or do I need to) go bigger than stock or is there a more durable option?

AWIC - I am planning on including this. Seems like a good option for the occasional track day and extended driving.

Anything else I need to consider?

[STiPWRD]

I get the challenges and cost of the turbo, but switching to a 2.5L would definitely introduce challenges with the ECU and possibly challenges mating it to my transmission. (Confirmation of my assumption would be helpful)

The 02 wrx heads will bolt right up to a 2.5L block, so will the 02 5 speed trans. This is the setup I'm currently running EJ205 heads on an EJ257 sti block. Your compression increases when doing this so it's a good idea to lower it back down to a safer level. I did this by installing JE forged pistons specific to this hybrid setup.

I would like to generate 300 whp +/- with a durable engine and if possible I'd like to keep my budget at $7500 or less, but that is also what this thread is about. If I need a larger budget I want to know now.

To achieve 300 whp, you will need to upgrade the turbo and supporting mods (injectors, fuel pump, ECU). The stock turbo will not be efficient enough at that hp. There are lots of options out there but your cheapest option will be a used turbo from an sti.

People seem to like the ID1000s for injectors. I'm running wrx top feed injectors modded to flow at 824cc and the aeromotive 340 pump that came with the Boyd tank.

You'll also have to figure out how you want to handle the ECU. You can have someone handle that or do it yourself with a accessport or with Rom raider/tactrix cable. I went with ROM raider. Depending on how much of the work you do yourself, I'd say your budget is very reasonable.

[ssssly]

With a $7500 budget I would suggest getting an EJ207 long block with vf37 or vf36 if you can find it. Will run 300hp to the wheels all day. With the LB ECU and harness modifications you would still be under budget.

Increasing the oil pump size is generally not a great idea on an EJ engine.

The killer B oil starvation solution would be a good addition without having to go dry sump.

If you get a 207 lb it should come with 565cc injectors. Plenty big for the HP target.

Fuel pump and lines would be nice but not necessary to meet the hp goal reliably.

Regardless of what block you get you will need a VF or larger turbo to reliably hit 300HP.

AWIC is a near necessity for track duty unless you design a way to get air to the TMIC.

[icky]

I agree with ssssly, ej207 and be done with it. When sourcing an engine you will find that they usually come with an ecu, or at least get one added for cheap, then when you swap it in just change out the ecu. Jdm premium fuel is about the same as 93 octane, they just use a different system to evaluate the fuel. So running a stock map should get you close to your desired hp. Main benefits among many are big port heads (v7 spec c, or all v8) cross drilled crank, semi-closed deck and avcs (which really aids in spool time).

[ssssly]

Japanese high occu gas is more like 97 (RON+MON)/2 in most places.

You will want to dial back the timing.

[icky]

From what I have read it would be equivalent to 94, if we had it. I have not looked up info in a long time but would be interested in the article you found this info in. I too am using an ej207 that should be finished in a few weeks and thought I would be good. Im not saying you're wrong, I just need to know as the only tunner I trust is months out and I don't want to blow my motor. None the less getting your car on a dyno (load type) and tunning it properly will yield best results.

[Harley818]

Check out simplifying the EJ thread started by longislandwrx.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...692#post175692

For me not being a subaru guy, it was really helpful.
I'm not looking for 300hp but what I've read so far you would need a larger turbo and possibly injectors.
I went AWIC just to be sure, and probably because I know I'll go 300 hp in the future.
I tore my 120K mi engine down and put in new rings, bearings, oil pump, water pump, STI pan and pickup, and had the heads done right with new valves and seals, and planing.
Best of luck with your rebuild.

[STiPWRD]

With a $7500 budget I would suggest getting an EJ207 long block with vf37 or vf36 if you can find it. Will run 300hp to the wheels all day. With the LB ECU and harness modifications you would still be under budget.

Just curious, is a JDM ECU required to run an EJ207 and if so, will it be OBD2 compliant? What's an LB ECU and what mods would have to be done to the harness?

[redfogo]

Just curious, is a JDM ECU required to run an EJ207 and if so, will it be OBD2 compliant? What's an LB ECU and what mods would have to be done to the harness?

You can run an ej207 with not to much work just depends on the year. For example the 2002/2003 ej207 v7 will work on a 2002/2003 USDM wiring harness and you just need to add a few wires to take advantage of the AVCS. Technically you could run the same year wrx ECU and the engine would work and run just fine you just would be missing the AVCS function. ODB2 works regardless with no problem.

There are a lot of wiring guides on what need to be done to swap in a ej207 into specific years. It's best to match the engine to the same year USDM body harness. If you want to run an ej207 v7 and want to diet your harness. Here is my thread as I am running a v7 EJ207 and JDM ECU on a 2003 wrx harness. I also dieted a lot of things but you would not need to do that.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...wiring-harness

[STiPWRD]

You can run an ej207 with not to much work just depends on the year. For example the 2002/2003 ej207 v7 will work on a 2002/2003 USDM wiring harness and you just need to add a few wires to take advantage of the AVCS. Technically you could run the same year wrx ECU and the engine would work and run just fine you just would be missing the AVCS function. ODB2 works regardless with no problem.

There are a lot of wiring guides on what need to be done to swap in a ej207 into specific years. It's best to match the engine to the same year USDM body harness. If you want to run an ej207 v7 and want to diet your harness. Here is my thread as I am running a v7 EJ207 and JDM ECU on a 2003 wrx harness. I also dieted a lot of things but you would not need to do that.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...wiring-harness

Thanks, good to know if I ever go that route. One last thing - is your JDM ECU OBD2 compliant?

[redfogo]

Thanks, good to know if I ever go that route. One last thing - is your JDM ECU OBD2 compliant?

It depends on the state to my understanding. Yes if they connect there ODB2 scanner should work no problem so long as you have no codes. This thread has a bit more details on it. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2001373

[jaw777]

Lots of good advice here. Thank you all. One thing that did get raised is the wiring. After messing that up and shipping it off to iWire for repair, will the ej207 require changes to the wiring harness?

[icky]

Lots of good advice here. Thank you all. One thing that did get raised is the wiring. After messing that up and shipping it off to iWire for repair, will the ej207 require changes to the wiring harness?

IWire is working on my harness atm. I can't remember but I believe a few pins need to be swapped and the avcs wires added. They said I didn't need to send the 207 engine harness with my 03 wrx donor harness but I did anyway since I had no need for it. If switching from a 205 to 207 there are companies that sell the avcs harness designed for this and easy instructions to follow if you do yourself.

[ssssly]

From what I have read it would be equivalent to 94, if we had it. I have not looked up info in a long time but would be interested in the article you found this info in. I too am using an ej207 that should be finished in a few weeks and thought I would be good. Im not saying you're wrong, I just need to know as the only tunner I trust is months out and I don't want to blow my motor. None the less getting your car on a dyno (load type) and tunning it properly will yield best results.

I lived in Japan, building, tuning and racing Subarus for 8 years.

Enos, Esso and most Idemitsu stations stock 100-1 RON high octane. The western companies, Shell, BP etc generally have 98-99 RON high octane. (They are marked on the pumps inspection plates). The timing tables for everything that came stock with a twin scroll turbo on it is tuned for 100RON gas.

For base set to tune off of with US gas you will want to pull 15% timing across the board and go from there.

You can run an ej207 with not to much work just depends on the year. For example the 2002/2003 ej207 v7 will work on a 2002/2003 USDM wiring harness and you just need to add a few wires to take advantage of the AVCS. Technically you could run the same year wrx ECU and the engine would work and run just fine you just would be missing the AVCS function. ODB2 works regardless with no problem.

There are a lot of wiring guides on what need to be done to swap in a ej207 into specific years. It's best to match the engine to the same year USDM body harness. If you want to run an ej207 v7 and want to diet your harness. Here is my thread as I am running a v7 EJ207 and JDM ECU on a 2003 wrx harness. I also dieted a lot of things but you would not need to do that.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...wiring-harness

You need a JDM ECU to run a JDM engine. Unless you are going to weld the cams up to delete the AVCS and do all the changes to swap out sensors.

Standard V7/V8 STI engines are largely plug and play into a 03-07 USDM wiring harness. You just have to re-pin the TGV wires to run the AVCS. The ECU will plug right in.

All of the special edition engines and some later V9 engines will require a bit more work. They have additional sensors for the auto intercooler water sprayer and some other trick systems. So you will want to make sure that you not only have the ECU but the engine/intake manifold harness as well.

[icky]

I lived in Japan, building, tuning and racing Subarus for 8 years.

Enos, Esso and most Idemitsu stations stock 100-1 RON high octane. The western companies, Shell, BP etc generally have 98-99 RON high octane. (They are marked on the pumps inspection plates). The timing tables for everything that came stock with a twin scroll turbo on it is tuned for 100RON gas.

For base set to tune off of with US gas you will want to pull 15% timing across the board and go from there.



You need a JDM ECU to run a JDM engine. Unless you are going to weld the cams up to delete the AVCS and do all the changes to swap out sensors.

Standard V7/V8 STI engines are largely plug and play into a 03-07 USDM wiring harness. You just have to re-pin the TGV wires to run the AVCS. The ECU will plug right in.

All of the special edition engines and some later V9 engines will require a bit more work. They have additional sensors for the auto intercooler water sprayer and some other trick systems. So you will want to make sure that you not only have the ECU but the engine/intake manifold harness as well.

Sweet, thank you for your response. Since I don't have confidence in messing with my rom (even though I have tackttacktrix 2.0) do you think it is safe to start and drive 40 miles to my tunner, or should I just trailer it? Thank you for your input.

[ssssly]

Its fine to drive in normal traffic. As long as you can trust yourself not to thrash it once just to see.

The only thing you would need to watch is long hills. You will want to downshift to a gear that will keep you above 4500 RPM.

Sounds counterintuitive, but the way the load and boost tables work, you are at higher risk of detonation going up a hill at low rpm. The car will increase boost in closed loop to compensate for the increased load and you can exceed the timing table at stoic AFR.

[Blwalker105]

I'm kind of in the same situation and was planning to prep my high-miles ej205 for 400WHP but now feel it would be cheaper and easier to attain this goal with a IAG Stage 1+ 2.5L short block. I have a new FP 71HTA turbo and am planning on an Accessport and all the other attending injectors, fuel pump, etc. Will my stock Ecu be compatible with this combination?

[ssssly]

You will have to rescale all the tables, but you can tune the stock ECU to run that.

You will not be able to put the power to the ground with less than 10"s of rubber and will need custom axles. But the ECU won't be a problem.

[Blwalker105]

Yeah, I hear you. That will be more for bragging rights and the for sale ad. I'll probably limit boost to something around 300-330 in the name of good sense and parts longevity.