Vantage Design Project

[Steve91T]

Let's say they could build it, is it too close to the 918? I love the car, but that's one thing that I think would cause problems.

Steve

[bromikl]

Yeah, I do like this car a lot. Unfortunately we're just pissing up a rope here. The rules of the contest were established and it is now over. It would be unfair to select a "new" winner. Each of the four designs currently in the running represent a significant investment by FFR.

But Vantage 818 is the most mature of all of the submissions.

I say again, FFR can build any model they want. Even if it wasn't submitted for the contest. In addition they are under no obligation to build any of the contest winners.

[Flamshackle]

I really like your work now V-man! I think this has an amazing and true low slung mid engine front end look. Can you team up with anyone to show it in 3D? Amazing work though and it looks ace as now IMO :~)

PS keep true scale wheels. We all know how big low profile wheels make cars look ace but these are a good start point if FFR get excited by it.

[Vman7]

New design (side). Is much much better! Nice job man!

No reason that FFR couldn't use this... If you could get it I'm 3d it would be much easier!

I really like your work now V-man! I think this has an amazing and true low slung mid engine front end look. Can you team up with anyone to show it in 3D? Amazing work though and it looks ace as now IMO :~)

PS keep true scale wheels. We all know how big low profile wheels make cars look ace but these are a good start point if FFR get excited by it.

If someone would like to do it in a 3D Cad program that would be great! I would most likely have to do a 2D drafting style drawings for that person to use as a template, since that would help make it more accurate. Originally I was going to do the design that way, but I thought not to many people would think much of it.

I think I will stay with the tire/wheel size, which in the thread I talk about the sizes, just might change the wheel look, since the ones right now are not that great looking.

David

[olpro]

On the wheels & tires, you might look at what the other "official" models have done.
It is one thing (and a good thing) to have dealt with reality but if the other guys are showing the big stuff - and you aren't - then you will be at a huge disadvantage. At a certain point this becomes a beauty contest and no one is listening about whether one of the girls might have stuffed some kleenix in her bra - they will just be drooling at her.

[Vman7]

On the wheels & tires, you might look at what the other "official" models have done.
It is one thing (and a good thing) to have dealt with reality but if the other guys are showing the big stuff - and you aren't - then you will be at a huge disadvantage. At a certain point this becomes a beauty contest and no one is listening about whether one of the girls might have stuffed some kleenix in her bra - they will just be drooling at her.

LOL @ the kleenix part. I was looking at the tires and wheel on the new GTM, I was thinking about using them, I would have to resize them of course and they won't be accuarte, but that is ok. I would keep the tire dia. though, other wise I would have to get into reshaping the wheel wells again.

[Vman7]

I doubt if this design would have much chance against the 4 models in the sense of a spyder version, but I think it might be in the running for a coupe/targa version. The spyder version of mine is ok, but it really doesn't look as good as the coupe version.

Since Dave Smith said they are mostly focusing on the Roadster (spyder) version right now, and that a coupe might be in the future.

David

[olpro]

I just looked at the pix of the four models on the other thread. It looks like Jim's model has a similar wheel-tire size as your side view rendering but the other three are definitely showing LOW profile tires and larger rims. Keeping the overall tire diameter is logical.

It occurs to me that Jim's model would also benefit from this discussion.

[Ks2]

with 2 exhaust outlets on either end of the motor the NA motors could (albiet loudly) support those side exhausts of the porsche

back on topic... this was one of only a handful of designs i liked better then xabiers... and is the only other design i would truly consider buying

dave mentioned this project to be a swatch watch type car... perhaps with interchangeable bodies this can be made as a shell and released sometime later

[Vman7]

Vantage 2.0 side view progress. I redid the area between the wheels, doorline down and rear upper fender, added fuel door, side mirror and new wheels.

Now back to working on the front and rear areas on the side and details.


Attachment 5659

[adesilva]

That looks awesome, great job Vman

[Flamshackle]

That looks stunning! any chance of a 3D render? maybe talk to Rodney and ask how he did his?

[fritts]

HOF for me as well...

[adesilva]

Looks like a sexier version of the Porsche Cayman to me. The only problem could be the fact that it certainly does like like a Porsche from the side/front and that could be something that FF may want to avoid (considering they are wanting a totally original design)

This design looks gorgeous though and it is one of the few that really gets me excited. I think that the first place design also has that kind of potential if it gets more detail put into it.

I am very excited to see how you finalize this design and hope that Dave and others at FF are taking notice and at least considering taking cues from this design. The fact that we are expecting multiple bodies could help this design come to fruition in one way or another.

[3000gttom]

i bet if u changed the color, you'd get significantly less comparisons to porsches

[Vman7]

I think if I would have never said since the start (back when the contest started) and showed pics of the 918, most would not have said anything about looking like a porsche. The rear in no way looks like any porsche. only thing on the front that looks like a porsche is the 1st version headlights. From the side view the front looks more in the style of Ferrari and the mid section back reminds me of a mustang for some crazy reason.

But hey that's just how I see it

If look hard enough at any design you can find elements from other designs.

Bottom line is does the design flow and give you the "WOW" factor and make heads turn and perform.

David

[adesilva]

You make a very valid point, in the end the only thing that matters is the fact that looking at this car does develop the WOW factor (at least for me)

[Rockraven]

Vman, I LOVE it. If Porsche or Lotus designed this and sold it for $75,000, i'd still love it. I hope you have Dave and Jim's attention...

[bbjones121]

I like the new design a lot. My heart is being torn all over the place. It does remind me of the Cayman a lot though. I definitely do not want someone calling it a Porsche.

[3000gttom]

it would be cool if the subaru headlight assembly could be shown with this design as that could be a likely solution in the real car, just to see how it might look

i wouldnt want it to ruin the look of the car though

[adesilva]

Considering they are planning on using the 02-07 wrx as the single donor I dont think they will be reusing the headlights. If that were the case they would need to be more specific because in those years they had different headlights in i believe 02-05 and 06-07

[Psay]

To me the side profile screams 'American muscle car', the front has the the beautiful flowing lines of a European supercar and the rear is totally unique. A strange combination but it works and looks absolutely stunning.

Other than the colour I do not see Porsche in this car at all. As 3000ggtom states 'i bet if u changed the color, you'd get significantly less comparisons to porsches'.

[16g-95gsx]

Truly stunning, perhaps one of the only cars that I can't pick out a single thing I'd change. Works as a roadster, works as a targa, works as a coupe, and it looks properly proportional. It also looks sexy from EVERY angle, not just one or two, plus it incorporates what I feel is the much needed hood vent for the radiator. Great job, Dave please take note.

[Vman7]

I think I better start a new thread.......something like Vantage Design 2.0 or something.

Too many people are getting the old side view (done during the Contest) with the new side confused.

And get rid of the old reference to the Porsche 918, I think if that was never shown or mentioned most wouldn't bring it up as much.

People really need to read posts better and not read into them.

David

[kach22i]

I think I better start a new thread.......something like Vantage Design 2.0 or something.

Too many people are getting the old side view (done during the Contest) with the new side confused.

And get rid of the old reference to the Porsche 918, I think if that was never shown or mentioned most wouldn't bring it up as much.

People really need to read posts better and not read into them.

David

David/Vman7, I think you have done a commendable job of making this design your own. I regret if some took or will take comparisons in a negative way. However any attempt to make such discussion taboo are pointless as people will be people, you have no control over their thoughts, right or wrong. Start a new thread if you feel you must, I will not post comparables or outdated designs there.

I am not posting 918 images, I am providing below links to some overlay studies I've done. These studies in my opinion prove what a skillful and artful job you have done in taking some profile elements and making them fit the FFR template. In fact combined with the rear which I love, you have your own design, one in all honestly actually does pay homage to the 918 (but is not a knock off or copy).

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...antageSide.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...tageand918.jpg

Cheers, George/kach22i

[Vman7]

David/Vman7, I think you have done a commendable job of making this design your own. I regret if some took or will take comparisons in a negative way. However any attempt to make such discussion taboo are pointless as people will be people, you have no control over their thoughts, right or wrong. Start a new thread if you feel you must, I will not post comparables or outdated designs there.

I am not posting 918 images, I am providing below links to some overlay studies I've done. These studies in my opinion prove what a skillful and artful job you have done in taking some profile elements and making them fit the FFR template. In fact combined with the rear which I love, you have your own design, one in all honestly actually does pay homage to the 918 (but is not a knock off or copy).

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...antageSide.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...tageand918.jpg

Cheers, George/kach22i

Thanks George Those are good overlays. I did one of the 918 and Vantage a long time ago, but I think I removed it or replaced it.

For right now I removed the 918/new vantage "mock up"/vantage with 818 overlay, until I take out the 918 of that pic.

Once I get a little more done on the side view and finish off the new headlights, I will start a new thread.

Now whether Dave Simth and FFR consider this design or not, that's up to them, and if not that's fine, I still have it in my Portfolio.

David

[bbjones121]

I definitely do not mind it looking like the 918. Most people wouldn't know that is a Porsche. It is the Cayman I don't want people thinking that it is.

[16g-95gsx]

Vman, are you readily able to change the colors? Id love to see it in black, yellow, and red just to change it up from the grey shown.

[Vman7]

Vman, are you readily able to change the colors? Id love to see it in black, yellow, and red just to change it up from the grey shown.

It is easier to work in grey when it comes to doing all the blending, shading etc., but I can change the color later. To do the color right you don't just do an overlay in photoshop, hard to explain, but its more work then just doing an overlay.

David

[apexanimal]

could you try not having the bottom of the rear bumper area sweep up?

instead maybe leave the bottom straight or at less of an incline? just seems like the entire thing has it's little butt up in the air...

[Vman7]

could you try not having the bottom of the rear bumper area sweep up?

instead maybe leave the bottom straight or at less of an incline? just seems like the entire thing has it's little butt up in the air...

I did that originally, but it made the rear from the side view have a big butt....lol, Once I get the diffuser in there, from the side view it will bring that look down.

Just measured the ht. of the rear "so called rear bumper"...17.25"

[apexanimal]

^ noted...

the diffuser should help that look... nice work

[GUNS]

Ok here is a mock up of the new Headlights, to give it more of a "mean" look.



Attachment 5614

Vman, I just still can't get over the resemblance of your design to the porche 918 and porche carerra gt. Even with the re-designed headlights I still see it. In fact I showed your pic to my wife and her response was "looks like a porche." I think we really need some more angles of this thing to get a good feel for it.

I think that part of the problem is that we know you took the 918 and tweaked it to come up with a different design. I know a lot of designs borrow elements from other cars, but for some reason it kind of bothers me when you take an existing design to start out with, alter it, and call it your own.

I'm in no way trying to slam you because you are far more talented than I am and I actually like your design, I just can't get past the above observations. I say keep at it and provide us with more angles if you can.

[Vman7]

[QUOTE=GUNS;39150 Vman, I just still can't get over the resemblance of your design to the porche 918 and porche carerra gt. Even with the re-designed headlights I still see it. In fact I showed your pic to my wife and her response was "looks like a porche." I think we really need some more angles of this thing to get a good feel for it.

I think that part of the problem is that we know you took the 918 and tweaked it to come up with a different design. I know a lot of designs borrow elements from other cars, but for some reason it kind of bothers me when you take an existing design to start out with, alter it, and call it your own.

I'm in no way trying to slam you because you are far more talented than I am and I actually like your design, I just can't get past the above observations. I say keep at it and provide us with more angles if you can.[/QUOTE]

First off from the very start when the contest started that I was using the 918 as a base. I never called it my own, ever!
I think of it as a redefined version of the 918.

I am not going to get in a pissing contest over this. People need to drop the 918 crap! either you like my design or not.

This is why I dropped finishing off the design after the contest ended. Only until Dave smith came out on Jim's design, did I suggest my front and rear views as a possible different way to go. Then somebody bought my Vantage thread up to the top. I didn't have any intentions to even consider reintroducing the design until more people started talking more about it again.

So for right now, I am just backing off.

I like constructive criticism

David

[kach22i]

First off from the very start when the contest started that I was using the 918 as a base. I never called it my own, ever!
I think of it as a redefined version of the 918.

I understand this method, started a few of my own with a new Lancia Stratos study and new Fiat X-1/9 study. One major reason I never put more effort into them was exactly the type of backlash Vman7/David is going through. First you have to deal with it yourself, and fight your own ego and demons, then you have to fend off others. In the end, it just may not worth it.

I see many student level designers (on-line) doing their own Mustang, Lotus, Ferrari or Porsche as inspiration and trying to capture that marques essence as part of a learning process. I think it may even be part of some instructor's assignments. In architecture school one teacher had his students design a home as if they were Frank Lloyd Wright, and thereby learn his means, methods and thinking along the way. Nothing wrong with that, as long a the salute is made somehow.

David has saluted the 918 and the R8 giving proper footnotes as it were. I think the stance of the cars mentioned has been captured, and not a lot more has been left though the refinement process. Although some 3D views are needed to confirm.

If you want to see which car David's closely matches, look no further than the overlay I did with X's car. They are both guilty of trying to follow the FFR template. Guilt of this type should be worn with pride, it was a challenging template to say the least.

Link:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...antageandX.jpg

[GUNS]

First off from the very start when the contest started that I was using the 918 as a base. I never called it my own, ever!
I think of it as a redefined version of the 918.

I am not going to get in a pissing contest over this. People need to drop the 918 crap! either you like my design or not.

David

I know you've never hidden the fact that you used the 918 as a template and I applaud you for that. But that is where the problem is. I just can't see FFR justifying using an unoriginal design. Vman, I hope you don't think I'm attacking you here. I just want to highlight the implications of using this design. I actually love the way your design looks, I just can't support the way it was conceived.

Thanks for the time you have put into this. I can't imagine the effort it must take to do something like this. If nothing else, your design has shown the demand to branch out to designs other than the 4 chosen.

[kach22i]

unoriginal design

If I were to list all of the cars which are guilty of Copy & Paste or strong influences by existing automobiles, it would quite a long list.

I have seen in many of the top designs for example a strong Lotus and Ferrari influence, most often the designs going astray only where the designer tried to be "original"

It's not easy, cut them all some slack, this was a contest open to non-professionals.

[GUNS]

If I were to list all of the cars which are guilty of Copy & Paste or strong influences by existing automobiles, it would quite a long list.

I have seen in many of the top designs for example a strong Lotus and Ferrari influence, most often the designs going astray only where the designer tried to be "original"

It's not easy, cut them all some slack, this was a contest open to non-professionals.

I'm fully aware of this and even mentioned that most car designs barrow elements from other cars, and that's OK to a certain extent. I've been truly blown away with the talent on this forum, but this is getting to serious point in development and I think everything needs to be addressed, good and bad.

[slopoke]

Somebody start the petition ... I'll sign it too! Hang in there Vman, it's time to rally the troops!

[Best of the best]

I'm sorry to say this but....it looks like a knockoff of the Porsche. I don't think FFR want a car that is advertising for another brand by changing just the grilles, vents, diffuser, and head/tail lights. JMHO.