Who are the best wiring harness builders and ECU tuners?

[JB91710]

The heading says it all. "Who are the best engine wiring harness builders and OEM ECU tuners?" I'm in Connecticut.

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[flynntuna]

IMHO there are three Sponaugle, see his build thread here .http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-H6-EZ30R-818S He however hasn't been active lately.
IWire, a vendor here on the fourm, an expert on wiring . And Wayne Presly, builder extraordinaire. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...he-818-IT-FITS

[Samiam1017]

better off buying finding a local guy to you deal with. you will not get support from a local company to help fix problems with a vendor supplied ecu and harness.

[ben1272]

I can vouch for iWire's quality and attentiveness. Not sure if they make harnesses outside the Subie world, but I am sure he could if he wanted to and had the appropriate information provided.

[redfogo]

Iwire for sure if you want an OEM ECU. Or you can always make your own I did its very rewarding.

[JB91710]

I have a local tuner that helped his father build an 818. He is very familiar with Open Source and Rom Raider. He is extremely busy with a full time job and tuning nights and weekends and opening a new shop.

[Samiam1017]

I have a local tuner that helped his father build an 818. He is very familiar with Open Source and Rom Raider. He is extremely busy with a full time job and tuning nights and weekends and opening a new shop.

if your gonna go OEM ECU then i would talk to Iwire if you go aftermarket definity use a local guy.

[07FIREBLADE]

better off buying finding a local guy to you deal with. you will not get support from a local company to help fix problems with a vendor supplied ecu and harness.

Where have you been for the 60+ iWire builds? This goes completely against what we do if you want to run OEM ecu.

[Samiam1017]

Where have you been for the 60+ iWire builds? This goes completely against what we do if you want to run OEM ecu.

that statement was made before i realized he specifically mentioned OEM. I was about using an aftermarket ECU. There are about 3 threads about what hes tring to do and an aftermarket ecu was talked about in them. sorry for the confusion. is was in no way a jab at Iwire if that how you took it.

[07FIREBLADE]

Lol none was taken. It's just the structure of the forum it seems many can't search or don't want to read the info that's already available.

[Mechie3]

I like iwire.

More importantly, what is in that pic you posted?

[C.Plavan]

iWire!!!!!!!!!!

[JB91710]

I couldn't afford to buy a FFR kit car so I built a Porsche 917/10 Can Am Car.

Two 2007 Tribeca engines connected at the cranks.
Sport Shift Transaxle.
Automotive fuel pump, filter and regulator.
ATL fuel cell.
VDO gauges for both engines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1HyKLC-p1A There a few videos there.

[JB91710]

iwire sounds like the way to go. Of course, I'm in Connecticut and they're in LA. Road Trip!

[JB91710]

Well, for my project, iwire is a no go. They can't get my engines to run.

[ben1272]

That is a beautiful car. Do you ever entertain visitors?

I am surprised that Brian at iWire couldnt help given the subie engines you are using.

[ben1272]

Did you look at Simple Digital Solutions ECUs? They might be able to help configure their ECu to do what you need? http://www.sdsefi.com/

[ben1272]

How do you approach a project like this? Do you use two factory ECUs and have them both using the same master crank sensor and then re-map which cylinders are firing on the slave engine? I guess you want each engine running independently but synchronized to be running at same rpm, one forward and one in reverse direction. Other than crank sensor, what other sensors would be shared versus independent? Also, can cylinders be fired in reverse order for running engine in reverse direction? Are there other implications to running the engine in revers direction?

[Wayne Presley]

It's really not that huge of a problem to do.

[DodgyTim]

I couldn't afford to buy a FFR kit car so I built a Porsche 917/10 Can Am Car.

Two 2007 Tribeca engines connected at the cranks.
Sport Shift Transaxle.
Automotive fuel pump, filter and regulator.
ATL fuel cell.
VDO gauges for both engines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1HyKLC-p1A There a few videos there.

My 2006 Outback H6 had canbus, does your donor ecu ?

[mikeinatlanta]

Best? How do we define best? For me, I'm using all aviation white wire with the insulation custom laser printed. All aircraft circuit breakers with no fuse box. But then I'm known to get a bit carried away too.

For ECU: I just do what Wayne tells me to.

[JB91710]

Ben, I know next to nothing about wiring. I just used some basic knowledge, very basic, and common sense. The computer needs to know the crank and cam positions in order to know when to fire the injector and coil. I connected those and all other sensor wires to the ECU from the front engine. I have the engines set TDC on cylinder one on the front engine and cylinder six on the slave engine and spliced the wires so the signals to cylinder one would also go to cylinder six on the rear engine and so on. As far as the computer is concerned there is only one engine. I can leave the mechanical throttle bodies on or switch back to the electric ones. The signal from the pedal would be split to both throttle bodies. I saw in the maintenance CD and figured and guessed that the coil and injectors had their own and constant 12v supply. They just needed to know when to fire via a low voltage signal. When I spliced the wires together I Hoped the signal would be strong enough to tell the injector and coil to fire. I know for a fact that factory computers can be reprogrammed to run an engine outside the donor car because it was done on the Formula One car I built with a 2004 Cadillac XLR Northstar engine. I feel the only issue here is running the second engine off of the one computer AND running the Sport Shift automatic/manual transaxle. I have the factory dash harness connected to the ECU and TCU so that TCU is getting whatever information it needs from the ECU. I feel the two issues are reprogramming the ECU and getting the rear engine to run with the front one. LOGIC, which I live by, tells me this Can be done. It just takes someone who is fluid in the function of an ECU to plan this out from A to Z and troubleshoot that plan until they can say, "It can be done and this is how to do it." Everybody I have engaged in the past 6 years has been enthusiastic but can make money easier doing the same Subaru tuning or fabrication over and over. What I have here is a Challenge to do something outside the box that I would imagine, would be a feather in their cap in the tuning and automotive world. If I get this car finished it Will be on almost every internet car show. Think of what you see on those shows and look at this car. There isn't another Porsche 917 replica on the planet with a 12 cylinder boxer engine AND, Porsche had a hand in designing these engines. I find it hard to breath sometimes. I wonder why!

[JB91710]

ben, Anybody who wants to come and see the car is more than welcome. It's in East Hartford, Connecticut. The more enthusiasm I can generate, the better the chance the car will get done. I am retired with a lot of time on my hands. I can take the car to anyone who Knows, they can and will get it done. I can stay there indefinitely and do all the grunt work to build the harness. Everything I am and have is in this car. To see it stripped down for parts is unimaginable to me. I dream of the time I can drive it to a FFR get together. I have been following their progress since I saw their very first add but was never in a positon to buy a kit. When I was emotionally ready to build a car, I wanted the ultimate car for me. A Porsche 917 Lemans car. I built the aluminum tube frame and body but sold it to a company in Switzerland to finish as I had the F1 and 917/10 car going at the same time. Don't Ask!!! The F1 car is sold and now I have to get this done in order to have a life. Did I say I have trouble breathing sometimes???

[JB91710]

Did you look at Simple Digital Solutions ECUs? They might be able to help configure their ECu to do what you need? http://www.sdsefi.com/

I have looked into All the aftermarket companies over the last six years and no one can run one engine let alone two. Reprogramming the OEM ECU seems to be the way to go as it has been designed to run this engine. It needs to be tricked into running it outside the Tribeca it came from. I also need someone to complete the entire wiring harness for the engines and transmission and to all the gauges. If I purchase and reinstall the emission equipment, I can run these engines on the street without a test. So I have been told. That means the harness would need to include all the DOT equipment. I have a Painless system that can be used for that.

[ben1272]

I have a subaru 6 cylinder engine that was converted for aircraft use that is run with the Simple Digital Systems ECU. They seem to run quite well. I cant imagine that it wouldnt be able to run two engines as you have them, even if the factory ECUs present problems. I would at least talk to them.

[David Hodgkins]

Subscribed.

[David Hodgkins]

I've cleaned up the thread and issued infraction(s). Infractions are extremely rare on this board, but sometimes folks lose sight of our standards. We demand a more civilized discourse than most boards maybe, but that's just how it's done here. EVERYONE deserves respect, and tit-for-tat aggressions are not tolerated.

Please read this:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-the-818-forum

And this:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/announcement.php?f=91

Respect is a two way street guys. Someone - especially new guys on the board - may need an attitude adjustment but that doesn't get anyone a pass to retaliate.

Now hopefully this thread can get back on track.

[JB91710]

Best? How do we define best? For me, I'm using all aviation white wire with the insulation custom laser printed. All aircraft circuit breakers with no fuse box. But then I'm known to get a bit carried away too.

For ECU: I just do what Wayne tells me to.

It looks like I will be having Wayne tackle my project. My definition of Best is someone who is reliable, knowledgeable, professional and an all around nice person. Sounds like Wayne to me.

To put this business of my chassis welds to rest, I recommend you go to the links below to see what the chassis and welds of a real 917 looked like. Remember, I had a restoration business for 10 years and I know what Restoration and Replication mean. Modern welds on a 917 replica would have stood out to someone who knows them as much as mine stand out to people who Don't know them.
https://youtu.be/f3rbNkhL0Sg
https://youtu.be/0C5dLpDPk9c
https://youtu.be/foYvVeIDXaM
https://youtu.be/FIoNRrI9hKA
https://youtu.be/34zqqor3LYg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjGfXnI9u-M This is the exact car I am replicating.

[mikeinatlanta]

You can't go wrong with Wayne

[JB91710]

You can't go wrong with Wayne

He's real busy. Hope he doesn't forget me. I've waited 6 years already.

[ben1272]

The factory joints certainly dont appear much different from the ones you have crafted.

[DodgyTim]

I know its off topic for this thread but can I make a constructive critique before you spend money on the wiring/tuning?

Looking at your photo's in this thread and online, it looks like you've got the motors supported independently from each other, and the crankshaft connector as a rigid item.

Nearly everything in the industrial power transmission world does it the other way, they bolt the motor/gearbox (in your case motor/motor) rigidly together, then have a coupling that provides some tolerance for
axial and radial misalignment
thermal expansion
vibration etc

I was surprised by videos from other 818 builders on the forum how much the H4 motors buck about when on/off the power. Keeping all that aligned between two H6's and a transmission is a big ask.

I'd suggest making brackets to align the two motors so they are concentric, perfectly straight, and rigidly joined together, then use a coupling like this to join the two cranks
th9P0G6FIS.jpg
This type of coupling can handle a little misalignment, thermal expansion, etc and take the stress of the cranks

If you are going to run both motors off one crank sensor it might be better to use a spring type couplerth91N6OG3B.jpg
They are less tolerant of misalignment than the ones above, but are stiffer in the rotation direction, so the timing on the second engine would be closer to the first.

[Samiam1017]

He's real busy. Hope he doesn't forget me. I've waited 6 years already.

good luck with support buy local

[mikeinatlanta]

good luck with support buy local

Wayne provides outstanding support. Like some other vendors here, he spends enough time on the phone giving free advice to seriously cut into his work day.

[JB91710]

I know its off topic for this thread but can I make a constructive critique before you spend money on the wiring/tuning?

Looking at your photo's in this thread and online, it looks like you've got the motors supported independently from each other, and the crankshaft connector as a rigid item.

Nearly everything in the industrial power transmission world does it the other way, they bolt the motor/gearbox (in your case motor/motor) rigidly together, then have a coupling that provides some tolerance for
axial and radial misalignment
thermal expansion
vibration etc

I was surprised by videos from other 818 builders on the forum how much the H4 motors buck about when on/off the power. Keeping all that aligned between two H6's and a transmission is a big ask.

I'd suggest making brackets to align the two motors so they are concentric, perfectly straight, and rigidly joined together, then use a coupling like this to join the two cranks
th9P0G6FIS.jpg
This type of coupling can handle a little misalignment, thermal expansion, etc and take the stress of the cranks

If you are going to run both motors off one crank sensor it might be better to use a spring type couplerth91N6OG3B.jpg
They are less tolerant of misalignment than the ones above, but are stiffer in the rotation direction, so the timing on the second engine would be closer to the first.

Thanks for the input Tim. I did buy that first coupling you showed to consider but it made the connection too long. The engines are mounted on the exact same plane and in alignment. They are mounted with no rubber mounts. Hard bolted. My connector from the rear engine is bolted to two automatic flex plates, rim to rim so there will be shock absorption in every direction. In this photo they are just clamped in place.
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[JB91710]

good luck with support buy local

Local is where my trailer takes me. In this case, it would be difficult to find someone in my back yard who can pull this off. I did meet someone two towns over who feels he can do it, but he too is incredibly busy. This car has been sitting for years at $500 a month storage, because the technology wasn't developed to run this car until now. I put a lot of emotion into this project. In it's present state it is like carrying around a large ulcer that only completion will cure. Whoever can come up with a A-Z, well thought out plan will be doing the work. Even if it's in LA. This is the car I'm copying.4464240113_408586b7ed_b.jpg

[JB91710]

For anybody interested and to answer any questions, the following is what was on my mind when I decided to build this car. This list is cut from an e-mail I sent to another site to explain my intensions when their viewers miss understood what they were seeing.

1. I wanted to build the car as close to the original as was reasonably possible.

2. To that end, I welded the chassis tubes Professionally and then spent days Gusseting the welds Exactly like Porsche did in 1969 on their thin walled aluminum tubes which they brazed. Clean welds would have looked ridiculous on this chassis.

3. More work has been done to the car since those photos were taken. The suspension is from a C6 Corvette and was installed to factory specifications. It has double adjustable QA1 coilovers. The damage on the aluminum side pod was caused while trying to get the car on a U-Haul trailer by myself.

4. I chose the 2007 Subaru EZ30R engines because they were shorter than earlier Subaru and Porsche flat sixes. I had to maintain a 91" wheelbase to be authentic. I was able to get it to 92.5.

5. The reasons I went with the automatic transaxle were many. At the time I didn't know if the manual would bolt right up. This is a right hand drive and right hand shift car. The shift location on the automatic transmission is on the right side. The manual is on the left side. As I had to design and build everything on the car myself, I didn't have any idea how I could snake around to the opposite side and engage the manual mechanism. (Now the 818 shifter is available if I or the next owner wants to switch to manual.) I also retained the entire Subaru harness which included the ECU and TCU so I thought the reprogramming of the ECU would make everything work.

6. The kit car and custom building world as well as tuners were not dealing with these engines when I purchased them. I have spent around six years talking to every Stand alone computer manufacturer and have not found one that can work with these engines, until now.

7. I have strived to recreate this car within a very restricted budget. I have recreated many details to the point where experts would look at those individual details and not tell them from the original as each car had it's own personality.

8. There are a handful of 917 replica companies throughout the world that install Porsche six (6) cylinders engines in the engine bay of a replica 12 cylinder Porsche. I, couldn't do that. If I was going to build a 917, it was going to have a 12 cylinder "Boxer" engine and I was going to figure out how to do it and I have. One person took the easy way out and installed a BMW v12. Not the same! My car will be the only 12 cylinder boxer engine 917 replica in the World.

9. The intent of this car was for show and cruising. The torque or horsepower these engines will create does not bother me. I have been told the torque will double and the horse power from the two 250hp engines will be around 400hp. I will never test it because I don't care. This car was for looks and sound. This car will never do a 0-60 run, a burnout, run the quarter mile or be driven hard on a Track Day. It was for my satisfaction of knowing I could do it, actually have the closest thing to a 917 I could ever hope for and to hear the sound of those12 cylinders through the tuned exhaust system which will remind me of the real thing when I was 20 years old. The body will be modeled after the Joe Siffert red STP car.
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P.S. The weld on the shift linkage tube had to be done it place. Access was unimaginable as the side pod where this photo was taken was in place. It had to be done from above with two hands in my face. It's a wonder I even hit the tubes.

[Samiam1017]

Wayne provides outstanding support. Like some other vendors here, he spends enough time on the phone giving free advice to seriously cut into his work day.

i guess my $3000 didn't include the support. i guess i bought the wrong package. Buy local!

[JB91710]

i guess my $3000 didn't include the support. i guess i bought the wrong package. Buy local!

It is very easy to buy from the wrong place. I spent almost that much on a computer system from a Major, MAJOR, supplier that said their computer will absolutely run my engines. I even hired their local rep to come and fire up the engines after I installed everything. Turned out their computer couldn't read the cam and crank sensors. Even two years after purchase, Got every dime back though! Best thing to do is a lot of homework and get lots of people to point you to one person and then get that person to Prove that they can do it by laying out an A-Z plan that works. Even take that plan and run it past others to get feedback. Then, you still are going to have some grief to deal with. Just a smaller amount.

[iWire]

I guess our name has been mentioned enough times, not to mention the OP and I have talked numerous times over the last year, that it's time to post. The simple answer to the base problem with trying to use the OEM ECU is that until you can send the proper information to the ECU down the CAN line by replicating the code (as in software coding, not analog signals because we are sending digital information) from the other modules that are no longer in car (ABS/BIU/ETC) the OEM ECU will not function properly. Therefore, a standalone in combination with a manual transmission, which we offered to do (along with Wayne and others), is the simplest method for getting the car running because it does not require these inputs.

To elaborate on the OEM CAN equipped ECU situation as a whole. We are working on a CAN module for non CAN applications such as the 917 H-12 beast, 818s, VWs, etc, but it's a massive task (think finding treasure without a map) so it's going to take awhile to decode. Even if we had CAN support today, sport shift may still be an issue because it would require even more R&D, and as referenced in other threads, we have to make it worth our time so there would be a substantial price tag since it would basically be a one off.

Just to clear one other semi off topic piece up. We can and have wired in standalone ECUs, but generally sway customers away from a standalone because the OEM ECU is the best option for most builds. In this case particular, it's not an option due to the impact of CAN.

We absolutely love projects like this and wish we could help more, but we have to maintain work flow to keep the doors open and something like this pulls too many resources.