Confidence Beginning to Waiver on Type-65 Build Order

[bsparkman]

I've called Factory Five at least 4 different times in the past 2 weeks for information on a Type-65 build. Each time I call, I call hoping to get that one person with all the right answers, delivered in an honest, sincere fashion that make me feel comfortable writing a check for $25K. I called today and a gentleman waxed poetically as if I was boring him each time I asked a question; seemingly more interested in hearing himself speak. Question 1, what's the lead time for delivery if I order today? Response 1, "Oh that's hard to guess with any certainty." Question 2, what parts if any are typically backordered and how long are those parts typically backordered for? Response 2, "Our inventory is very dynamic, constantly changing, there no way to know what will be available when you pick your kit up. We could tell you it's ready one week and when you arrive a lot of your parts may not be available." What? This went on for 15 minutes until I just gave up; later telling my wife I don't know if I can go with this company.

My question to the group, if I place an order, depositing $1000, does the level of support change? Will I then be connected with persons genuinely concerned enough to answer my questions, persons who genuinely care that I ordered a kit and desire my build be successful? Did the group experience similar results when calling the main number to inquire about ordering a kit and different levels of support after you actually placed an order?

P.S.- I just returned from Midway Mustang Salvage in Davenport, IA with a 2016 Mustang GT IRS rear assembly. I want to use this assembly in my Type-65 build but do not get a "fuzzy feeling" each time I call to ask a question. Does my $1000 down get me that "fuzzy feeling?"

Thanks,

Bob

[HB_Ryan]

From my experience... There is a lot of moving parts that go into FFR. I will outline my process of ordering, back order parts, customer support, and build.

Order- I placed a call to FFR and spoke with Courtney. Answered all of my questions and knew what she was talking about.

Back ordered parts- they have numerous vendors and receive their shipments at different times. My POL list was 10 items, did it hinder my build... No. You have plenty of work to do and you can work around it.

Customer support- I had a an issue with my brake reservoir. Had a small leak and I called Courtney and a new one was shipped the next day.

Regarding overall experience.... You are given a manual to follow regarding the build. Is it super detailed with color pics? No. Can you post a question on this forum and get an experienced builder who has done it and seen it multiple times. Yes ( you will get multiple responses) I have nothing but good things to say about them.

Did I get a fuzzy feeling with FFR? Yes. When I built my roadster with my own hands and started the engine for the first time.... It was worth every penny.

[edwardb]

I understand very well your concern about dropping a large chunk of cash. You need to have complete confidence in the company you're dealing with. I've talked pretty extensively to all the different folks that answer the phone at Factory Five and met many of them in person during two factory visits, and I've never had the negative feelings you describe from anyone. It's one of the most entrepreneurial and customer focused companies I've ever dealt with, and every single person has always been very interested in helping me. I may not always like what they tell me (like the delivery date for xxx) or sometimes they may just not know. But "waxing poetic..." or "more interested in hearing himself speak..." No, don't get that at all. Two sides to every conversation I guess.

To your specific questions: (1) When you actually place your order, they will check the production schedule for whatever you're ordering and give you a fixed build and delivery availability date. They can give you the soonest available, if that's what you want, or can typically accommodate if you want a certain future date or time frame. Typically it's maybe one to several months, but there is no fixed lead time. Depends on what you're ordering and available production capacity, and I suspect is constantly changing based on order backlog. But once a date is fixed, they will tell you they hit it 99% + of the time. For my last order (Roadster #8674) I ordered in June. The next available date was early August. They hit the date exactly. (2) The promised delivery date, as described, is based on their internal production schedule for the chassis. They will pull all the parts for your order and prepare it for shipment on or before the promised date. Whatever parts aren't available at that time will go on your backorder list (or POL - Parts Order List as they all it) and be delivered to you as available. The number of parts and the time required varies a lot. It can take several weeks or even a few months to get every last part. Many parts are produced internally. But many parts are from suppliers. There are literally thousands of parts involved. They may be able to tell you in advance if there are particular problem items, but typically they can't tell you in advance what parts will be backordered.

They have delivered over 13,000 kits based on a speech Dave Smith gave at the London Show a couple months ago. So this is something they've done a lot. Perfect? No. But pretty impressive.

[Gordon Levy]

Having built nearly 200 of these cars I have had need to contact FFR from time to time. Personalities very but they are there to help. You may be better off asking direct questions here. You will get a variety of answers and you can pic the one that works best for you.

[michael everson]

All the people at FFR are great to deal with and are there to help. Courtnie, Dan, and Tony have been great to deal with.
You wont regret going with Factory Five. The back ordered parts are a fact of life but rarely slow any ones build.
Mike

[wareaglescott]

Whatever they lack in logistical consistency they make up for with a helpful customer oriented attitude. I have been very pleased with them so far. I have had my kit for 2 months. Still waiting on 3 items. Nothing is slowing me up at this point. Every time I have contacted them they have been very willing to help and give me the best information they have available to them.

[ricobrafan]

As a recent type 65 coupe buyer, I thought I might chime in. I started my process in Feb 2016 at mooch fest. I spoke with Dan and Courtnie and moved forward to the next step in April 2016. I visited/toured the facility where the team took at least a few hours to answer all of my questions and review the build process. I placed the order and a pick up date was set for June 18 and they met that goal. Like everyone else, I did have a few back ordered parts and I still have several items but none of which are holding me back. I have been on the phone and e-mail several times which Dan and Courtnie and continue to receive excellent service. Here are my suggestions
1. Not sure where you are located but find a local coupe builder
2. Visit FFR if possible
3. Continue to ask lots of questions to make sure this is what you want to do. This is not for everyone!
4. I am only a few months into the build but I can see why it can take some people many years to complete the project. You need to set weekly, monthly goals and stay on track otherwise it will never get done
5. Have I got, frustrated.. You bet and the manual is no real help. The support comes from the FFR community which also makes it fun and you are part of something bigger.
6. Please feel free to PM me And we can talk over the phone or ee-mail if you would like more details

[wallace18]

Back ordered parts are part of the process. You can bet FFR wishes all your parts were there when you get their kit. It cost them money to ship you those back ordered parts. They are at the will of their suppliers to get parts . I know it can be frustrating at times, but you almost every time find another part of the car to work on. I have only had great relations with FFR myself. I only ask questions when I can't get them elsewhere. Use the forum it will become your best friend. If patience is a weak area for you building a kit car may not be the best thing, IMO. Personally I love the work and character building that goes along with it all. I wish you the best.

[ram_g]

Lots of good responses so far and I'm sure you'll get more. Let me point out something that has been alluded to but not emphasized yet.

Paul B who made post #3 above (yes, his handle says Edward but it's one of the secret handshakes of this place that he's really Paul!) is on his 3rd FFR build, for himself. I would think it would be highly unlikely that he would be doing this if FFR were anything but a top-notch company. Then you have Gordon L who made post #4 where he's stated that he's built almost 200 of these things. Granted Gordon is in it as a professional, but that may be even a stronger statement than Paul's, because as a business, Gordon has his own customers to worry about, and if he wasn't getting satisfaction from FFR he would surely have moved on by now...

Personally, I myself have gone on record on this and the other forum that I will build another FFR at some point in the future.

Good luck with your decision!

Ram

[Joel Hauser]

My experience with FF and its staff has been very good. I received a roadster kit from my family in January 2016. Some parts were on back order, and FF made that very clear early on. All parts were delivered within a couple months. And truth be told, I had plenty of work to do on the car before the back order parts were delivered. The bottom line is I wouldn't be concerned about the back order parts; you'll get them, and probably before you're ready for them.

I've called or written to FF for technical advice many times. Sometimes I get an answer I understand, sometimes I don't. But I think the problem has more to do with the car being a lot more variable than a standard kit. There is no one way to build the car, so I think it is hard for FF to have a canned answer for many questions. Their staff is always polite, always makes a great effort, double checks with others if he or she doesn't know the answer, and is helpful.

My one gripe is with the construction manual. I'm building an Mk4 basic kit, and find that the manual is not always helpful. Some of the directions are way to abbreviated, while others are way to detailed. I think the instructions might be ok for an experienced hot rod builder or mustang mechanic, but for someone like me, who's just a beginner, I find myself staring at the pages as if their written in Klingon, and eventually throwing up my hands in disgust. I won't repeat the words that come out of mouth. To add to the confusion, the pictures are often of little use. Sometimes the the picture angle leaves you wondering what it is you're looking at. Sometimes the picture of a part is taken at a point in the build after other parts, like sheet metal, has be installed. Sometimes the pictures show lots of aftermarket parts which don't match what the individual builder is using. Sometimes it is a picture of an Mk3 kit. I think it would be helpful if FF made separate chapters available on line, with build instructions designed for the builder like me. That being said, I'm plowing through, and am confident I'll get the car done.

Overall, though, I think factory five is a very good honest company, with a remarkable product and a great staff. If you know what you're doing, you'll end up with a very cool car.

Joel

[mikeinatlanta]

Another take. I've had my issues with FFR and at times wished I had taken another path. That said, they are not a company that will flat out cheat you so your money is not at risk, but not every employee represents their company well so they can be a PITA getting issues resolved. If you want personal service they are too big for that, but push enough and you will eventually be taken care of. If you are wanting to build a coupe they are without a doubt the best option out there, but if the build itself isn't the big draw, I'd be looking at some of the more complete offerings.

[Dodgeman]

I ordered my FFR kit (33 Hot Rod) in April 2015, due to numerous delays with insurance company over who is going to pay for my flood damaged garage, my kit was delivered in September 2015. I ordered the manual online and poured over each chapter, my first build like Joel Hauser said it leaves a lot to be desired and should be formatted in such a way that each step follows another instead of jumping around like it does. I too had bak ordered parts but has not hindered the assembly (all parts delivered to date) the biggest peeve that I have is the wiring harness is designed for 2 completely different kits and has excessive wire, I wish FFR would build a harness the is truly plug & play for each kit,i.e. carb, fuel injected etc.

Anyway it has been fun to date, the body is a different animal altogether with numerous misaligned panels, pinholes in bond lines etc. FFR needs to mold in one piece. I have well over 100 hours just in the body alone.

[ben1272]

You cant go wrong with Factory Five. You may not like everything they do, every time and you may not like how they handle some situations. But, they care, make a quality product and work to make things right, even things that cant be blamed on them sometimes!

Cant go wrong. If you want a type 65 (built by you), just push the button already. You'll be glad in the end! They have cultivated this community and it is all out there willing to help you see the project through to whatever level of finish you choose!

[Olli]

You don't have to worry about FFR delivering on what you buy. It might not come in a single delivery but you will get every part that you paid for. The forums will be your best resource for tech help while you are building. You should be spending a lot of time reading about other coupe builds. The most difficult part of a coupe build will be the fitting of the body. You really need to speak with other coupe builders to find out who they used for the paint and body. FFR isn't going to help you with the body work. You might have to travel to get to a shop that has done a coupe before. I strongly believe that the only relationships that need to give you a "fuzzy feeling" during a build are; engine builder, body shop.

Olli

[bsparkman]

Thanks to all for the responses and terrific insight. My gut instincts tell me FFR my best and only option if I want to build my own coupe. But something funny happens when you are about to click the "place your order button" and commit funds, time and resources to a project as involved as this one. It's not just your time but your family's time as you spend hours in the shop building your dream car; your dream car; not theirs. I've built several award winning custom motorcycles; in an industry where manufacturing standards, interoperability and manufacturer support sketchy at best. In the end you machine, modify or redesign the part or parts; you make them fit you make it work. After reading your responses, this build probably no different than any of the others; you problem solve with the manufacturer and do what it takes to get it done.

I'm going to go ahead and "pull the trigger" relying on the forum and experienced users to help me navigate the process.

Thanks again,

Bob- St. Louis

[GSides9]

Bob, I started out with a visit to Factory Five for the Open House. Dave Smith ran the tour and it was obvious that he knew what was going on, in a good way. He is proud of Factory Five. Inside the building, staff members were more than willing to answer anything we asked. In the parking lot there were about 100 cars, and next to them were the owners. Ask them anything too. This was something that I wanted to be a part of. My car was ready for pickup on time. Back orders were filled in a timely fashion. All the parts are not perfect, very few needed a cut, adjustment and re weld. When the manual gets vague, it is usually because it is an area that gets personalized by most builders. Look at the Forum then. And the other one, more of us building coupes there. 23 months in and my car built my way should be on the road in the next few months. I would not change a thing.

Glen

[GoDadGo]

I'm on my First Factory Five Build and these guys have been great, especially Dangerous Dan Golub.
I ordered my MK-4 on 11-10-2014 and asked for a delivery date by February 1st, 2015 and the kit arrived in late January.
Only a handful of parts were missing, under 20, and they all arrived within 90 days of my kit showing up on my doorstep.
Can I assume that the delayed request for delivery helped or maybe because it was a MK-4 reduced back order delays?
Maybe All The Stars Aligned For Camp GoDadGo, But They Aligned None The Less!

[MPTech]

Thanks again,

Bob- St. Louis

StL, Missouri?
I ask because our club (in St. Louis) has a Bob that just finished his coupe. He's currently driving in Gel-coat and planning to have it painted over the winter.
If you want to meet and talk to him, reach out to Gateway Cobra Club, our next meeting is 9/13, but I'm sure many guys would be more than willing to discuss and show you their cars (many FFRs in the club). PM me where you are located and I'd be more than happy to meet & show you mine as well.

[Bob-STL]

I'm going to go ahead and "pull the trigger" relying on the forum and experienced users to help me navigate the process.

Thanks again,

Bob- St. Louis

I didn't see this first time through.
You are more than welcome to see what we've done and talk.
PM me if you'd like.

Bob-STL

[fact5racer]

They have delivered over 13,000 kits based on a speech Dave Smith gave at the London Show a couple months ago. So this is something they've done a lot. Perfect? No. But pretty impressive.

Man, that must of been one HELL of a speech!

One other thing..........Seeing no matter how you look at what you budget for the build, and what it ends up going over that budget,(they always do) with the cheap price of a plane ticket it's foolish not to fly into Boston on a Saturday, rent a car, go the factory and check it out. The motivation that you will get by just looking at teh showroom cars will help you immensely in your journey. This BTW from a guy that is now approaching my 17th build!