coyote engine install and headers questions

[wareaglescott]

What do I need to know about attaching the headers to the coyote? I know it is very tight and there are some issues being able to get at some of the bolts after the motor is in.
Why do the instructions specify to take the studs out that came on the motor? Why not just use them? Can I lower the motor half way in past the frame and then fully attach the headers before going the rest of the way in?

Putting the motor in very soon. Would like to get this all right the first try so any tips on this are appreciated.

I had mocked up the radiator. I have taken that out.
I have made the drivers and passenger footbox engine compartment pieces permanent.
I swung the steering shaft out of the way.
I had the triple reservoir mounted just forward of the DS footbox. I have removed that so it is not in the way.
I asked in another thread about height off the ground needed to angle the transmission in so I have that covered.

Motor mounts - do I want those tightened all the way into the block or leave them loose and then tighten after it is in place?

I have never put a motor in a car. I have some helping hands but they don't have the experience either. Anything else I should know please fire away.

[grluisi150]

The problem with getting the headers on is between the block and the foot box not the frame. you need to remove 4 or 5 studs to get the headers on. So I bought stage 8 bolts and did them all. They can be challenging but can be done just take your time. to install engine yes a second person help, most important is to have a balance bar to adjust the angle of the engine/trans during install. Motor mounts can be bolted on, I removed alternator but some people leave it on.

[Duke]

Just be patient when you drop it in. 1/4" at a time checking all your clearances.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Depends on the headers. The shorty's can go on before the motor goes in. No issue with dropping the complete engine in. Was a 20 minute job from lifting the engine off the floor to placing the nuts on the frame mounts & removing the hoist.

3 people - 2 spotters movers & one on the lift. Once its down between the upper frame tubes it gets lowered & pushed back. We did drop a little push back a little. Needs a lot of down angle on the trans.

When/if the trans shift towers hit the cross frame at the top of the trans cover area one helper can stand inside the cockpit & push the tail shaft down with his/her foot so the trans will slide back. I used a trans jack to support the trans when doing the final positioning.

FWIW a trans jack will also make putting in the rear end & gas tank a one man job.

[wareaglescott]

The problem with getting the headers on is between the block and the foot box not the frame. you need to remove 4 or 5 studs to get the headers on. So I bought stage 8 bolts and did them all. They can be challenging but can be done just take your time. to install engine yes a second person help, most important is to have a balance bar to adjust the angle of the engine/trans during install. Motor mounts can be bolted on, I removed alternator but some people leave it on.

I have a balance bar but no experience with it. With the lift points being front left and rear right of block are you basically just trying to keep the motor level and then you have to manually tilt the transmission down?

I understand the tight area on the headers is between the rear of motor and footboxes. My understanding was you could not have them installed before dropping the motor in because they would not clear the upper rails up by where the hood sits. Is that correct? And if so once you are below those could you then install the headers before dropping the rest of the way in or would they not clear the footboxes until the motor is all the way in?

[edwardb]

I have a balance bar but no experience with it. With the lift points being front left and rear right of block are you basically just trying to keep the motor level and then you have to manually tilt the transmission down?

I understand the tight area on the headers is between the rear of motor and footboxes. My understanding was you could not have them installed before dropping the motor in because they would not clear the upper rails up by where the hood sits. Is that correct? And if so once you are below those could you then install the headers before dropping the rest of the way in or would they not clear the footboxes until the motor is all the way in?

My experience with the balance bar and the Coyote lift points is that cranking the handle didn't change much. I used it to get the engine level side-to-side (important) but it didn't help much getting it to tip down. So yes, you will need to push the engine down as you lower it into place and back under the firewall. I put a lifting strap around the tail of the transmission, under the 4-inch chassis cross tube, and back to the shop crane. We used that to help tilt the engine down. Mainly it just helped to hold it down so we didn't have to push it the whole time. There were just two of us doing the installation. Both of us have done it a few times, so it makes a difference. But it's not all that hard. Just take it real slow as mentioned. I put moving blankets on both sides of the engine bay as well. Keeps from scratching things up if you get a little off. Just have a real gentle touch on the shop crane valve lowering the engine. Just barely crack it open as you're going in.

The difficult header is the driver's side. I wouldn't worry about the passenger side until you have the engine installed. That side is easy enough to install then. I installed the driver's side header during the engine install. Once it was down low enough to get the header in under the frame, I bolted it in place. It's only an inch or two off the final engine mount location, but still easier. Note I also found it was way easier to get the driver's side header bolts in with the motor mount out of the way. Then bolt it back on and drop the engine the rest of the way down. Note I'm talking about the straight tube headers. I don't know about the shorty headers.

[wareaglescott]

My experience with the balance bar and the Coyote lift points is that cranking the handle didn't change much. I used it to get the engine level side-to-side (important) but it didn't help much getting it to tip down. So yes, you will need to push the engine down as you lower it into place and back under the firewall. I put a lifting strap around the tail of the transmission, under the 4-inch chassis cross tube, and back to the shop crane. We used that to help tilt the engine down. Mainly it just helped to hold it down so we didn't have to push it the whole time. There were just two of us doing the installation. Both of us have done it a few times, so it makes a difference. But it's not all that hard. Just take it real slow as mentioned. I put moving blankets on both sides of the engine bay as well. Keeps from scratching things up if you get a little off. Just have a real gentle touch on the shop crane valve lowering the engine. Just barely crack it open as you're going in.

The difficult header is the driver's side. I wouldn't worry about the passenger side until you have the engine installed. That side is easy enough to install then. I installed the driver's side header during the engine install. Once it was down low enough to get the header in under the frame, I bolted it in place. It's only an inch or two off the final engine mount location, but still easier. Note I also found it was way easier to get the driver's side header bolts in with the motor mount out of the way. Then bolt it back on and drop the engine the rest of the way down. Note I'm talking about the straight tube headers. I don't know about the shorty headers.

Thanks Paul. I have the shorty headers and looking at them I believe they will fit if I install them prior to lifting. I got those remflex gaskets you recommended so i plan to install them tomorrow. The gasket package says torque to 20lbs. That doesn't seem like much?!
My engine cradle bolts into the same holes the engine mounts will use. I will have to wait until the engine is airborne to put them on anyways after taking the cradle off.
I believe I have the same harbour freight shop crane as you do. Do you remember what setting you used on the adjustable bar? I have it set on the 1 ton right now.

[edwardb]

Thanks Paul. I have the shorty headers and looking at them I believe they will fit if I install them prior to lifting. I got those remflex gaskets you recommended so i plan to install them tomorrow. The gasket package says torque to 20lbs. That doesn't seem like much?!
My engine cradle bolts into the same holes the engine mounts will use. I will have to wait until the engine is airborne to put them on anyways after taking the cradle off.
I believe I have the same harbour freight shop crane as you do. Do you remember what setting you used on the adjustable bar? I have it set on the 1 ton right now.

I had forgetten you have the shorty headers. No experience here. But if the others say the engine will go with them on, I believe it. Go for it. Yes, the spec for Remflex is only 20 lbs. You're right. Pretty light. But follow it. When putting the headers in after the engine is installed, it's typically impossible to get a torque wrench in there. So I used a small ratchet or breaker bar, and try to not crank down on them very hard. I've yet to have a RemFlex leak or fail.

I put the H-F shop crane all the way out to the maximum reach. I believe on that crane it's the 1/2 ton setting. Still plenty of capacity and stable at that setting. You need all the reach you can get. Good luck!

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Scott,

The worse thing you can do is overthink this thing. There is no reason you should have any problem getting the engine in the car. Its one of the easier parts of the build.


Fully dressed engine, all accessories + headers & mounts sitting on the floor. Lift is @ 1.5 ton. IIRC the power package is a bit over a .25 ton.


Twenty minutes later. Thanks to my daughter & grandson.

The transmission jack can be seen just behind the tail shaft in the first picture. Inexpensive item you will find a lot of use for.

BTW the black line on the blue field on the coil cover is a spotting mark for the chassis mounting bolt. If you align the marks with the bolts & the engine is crooked in the chassis you need to swap the engine mounts left side to right side.

[Dave Howard]

I agree with Bear-AvHistory. The engine install is one of the easiest steps. No mock up test fit required. Like everything else about these great kits, the engineering has already been done by FFR. My Coyote went in on Christmas Day 2012. My oldest son got home the night before. Once the morning X-mas activities were out of the way we went to the garage to show him the project. Still in PJs and house coat, the engine was in 30 minutes later. "Thanks son".

So, like Bear....don't over think, re-engineer or Executive decision this step to death. The shorties or long tube headers install easy enough with the engine sitting on the mounts. I've had both. The Stainless Headers are by far the nicest and are much easier to get at the bolts. Keep the engine mounts loose until the engine is in place and the trans support in place. Don't get hung up on one engine mount spacer vs two vs none. If you need one, use one. There's some Bologna out there about needing two spacers to keep the engine level. Plain and simply BS. Good luck...enjoy the build

[wareaglescott]

Thanks for the replies. I am good at over thinking things. Besides preparation is the key to success! haha
Everything I do on this project is brand new and a learning experience for me so it helps to have as much info beforehand as I can get. Good info in this thread. I think it should go smoothly.
I do have the newly designed coyote engine spacers from FFR that sandwich inside of both engine mounts so that should be no issue.