Boig Motorsports

Visit our community sponsor

Thanks Thanks:  3
Likes Likes:  1
Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Making the New Headlights Watertight and Removable

  1. #1
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like

    Making the New Headlights Watertight and Removable

    As I started in on the headlight project this week, I found some glaring deficiencies that needed to be addressed. Firstly, the fitment was nasty, with 1/4" gaps in some places and unequal length openings right to left. Also, the directions in revision 1P brought to light the fact that once these things are in place and you put the lenses on with VHB tape, you are not getting them off for maintenance or otherwise without seriously compromising your fender and/or destroying the lenses. Lastly, these things are nowhere near waterproof, and I HATE, HATE, HATE moisture inside my headlights. Time to put on the old thinking cap.

    First things first, I needed to get the buckets to conform better to the fender and 5 holes weren't going to cut it. One of my sides had to have a few extra holes and on the other I had to put holes every 2 inches. Put as many 1/8" holes as you need and use Clecos to pull them into place. Now my gaps went down to just below 1/8". Then I got out the heat gun and went around the outer perimeters of the buckets about 1/2" above the flanges. Careful here, you just want the plastic warm enough to imprint a screwdriver head; not hot enough to pull up between the clecos. Now the gaps were down to 1/16" and they stayed put after things cooled off. You can pick any 5 or 6 holes later for fasteners and easily fill in the others. Pay attention to difficult areas where things are in the way of future nuts on the underside. Now I was off to a good start.

    The next thing to tackle was how to get these things more impervious to water intrusion. Not counting the top flanges, as they come from FF, these buckets have support brackets for the projectors that allow water to enter a critical gap from above, from the side, from the bottom, and from the rear of the main projectors.

    I solved all but the last by filling in all the gaps between the support brackets and the buckets with silicone.

    That left only intrusion from the rear, alongside the main projector's bore. I solved this by the addition of a bead of heavy grease (I used Sil-Glyde) at the midpoint of the projector's bulb extending rearward just to the body of the projector. This way, as I seat the bulbs, I will do so a little shy, then any adjustments to the projector will be forward so as to not disturb these seals. Wipe off any excess from the edges of the bulbs from the inside of the buckets. If you try to use silicone here, you will not be able to adjust your lights! The 4 LED's in each housing also need a dollop of silicone where their threaded studs enter the interior of the buckets and a dollop of silicone where the wires exit the studs...one of my amber's inner LED assembly can be spun by it's wires, so water can get in there too! For the top flanges, I fabricated attached silicone gaskets to be discussed later.

    Now, one last rant before onto the good stuff. The directions from page 40 of the revision say to "test fit the lights in the bucket by pushing the cups into the mounting holes". The unfinished part of this sentence should say "because in all likelihood you will have to seriously hog-out at least 2 of the 3 holes in order to get 3 adjusters that are in anywhere near the same plane and good luck getting those babies to work if they aren't". Seriously, mine were way out of whack and once you hog-out the holes, the cups no longer self-lock which is why on the next page it tells you to use epoxy to pot them in. Here's what I did: test fit the projector into the bore without the cups in place and all the adjusters equaled out near their maximum travel. Note how the ball of each adjuster fits through it's respective hole and relieve the bracket as necessary. Then mix up a good 2-part epoxy like J-B Weld or similar structural adhesive, lightly sand both mating surfaces, install the cups and go to town. Be advised that Loctite 330 will NOT work here as there are large gaps due to (now useless) wave washers on the undersides of the cups. If you use a thin-bodied epoxy be cautious of drips getting into your inner bucket area. I used an older structural adhesive that ran a LOT...I should have used JB Weld.

    Now, on to the fun stuff. The biggest problem I saw was that due to the geometry of the flange in the fender, all the fasteners would be pointing to a central point about 5 feet below the mounting flange, thereby making it impossible to get the bucket on and off without major problems. I let gravity provide the solution! First, let me say that in the interest of flange area and numerous unknowns, I decided that the #10 hardware was too large and decided to go with #8-32 screws that were 1/2" long. First, I sanded through the gelcoat of the flange about 3/4" on either side of my 5 mounting holes. Then I clecoed the bucket in place and used a 3/16" drill to open up my 5 mounting holes, all the while aiming my drill in kind of the same direction/plane. Then I countersunk the holes a LOT so that the head of the screw was a bit below the flange. (Major caution here: the flange is pretty thin; if you do not have a dedicated countersink bit and decide to use a drill bit in it's place, put the drill in reverse and spend the extra time necessary; with your drill in forward, you can chew through that flange in a heartbeat and then you are screwed!!) The nice part here is that your holes will naturally end up going toward the outer part of the bucket's flange and not inside to where you don't want them. After that, I took each screw/stud and ground it's head flat on 2 sides: this allows it to rock in it's countersunk bore without the edges going above the surrounding fender flange and also provides flat side surfaces with which the cured epoxy will resist rotational torque.

    I placed the screws in their holes, and used a tiny dollop of hot glue on the underside of each screw and attached a string and weight (heavy nut or something similar).


    Put a little grease on the threads to keep any dripping resin from sticking. Next, I aligned my fender so that the headlight's hole was as near horizontal as I could make it and got ready for potting the screws into place. Hang the screws so that their heads are parallel with the flange (you may have to Dremel/grind down an individual one here or there to keep an edge below the flange) and get ready to epoxy them into place. You don't have to be perfect in your gravity alignment, just get them close. Mix some epoxy resin and place a small amount in a different container for thickening. For this small portion, thicken to peanut butter consistency with microspheres, flox, fine sawdust, etc.

  2. Thanks Kiwi Dave thanked for this post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Also, prepare 2 plies of fiberglass cloth just big enough to cover your ground-off gelcoat area for each hole. Pull up the screws and brush resin around the countersunk hole and ground-off area for each screw and drop the screw into place. Place a small dollop of thickened resin onto the top of the screw head and sides and use a straight edge to conform it to the surrounding flange. Brush normal resin mixture on top of this and apply 2 plies of fiberglass cloth to each area. Let cure and then sand each area down to the gel coat.


    Voila! You now have lovely, potted studs with which to accept your new headlight buckets. They will accept any type of locking nut without spinning, even including MS21042-08 jet nuts, which I had to resort to in a few key places due to interference. You will probably have to do a little Dremel work with each bucket hole to tune it up, but it is very easy.

    Lastly, time to seal that perimeter flange area. Sand the top of the headlight bucket flange with 180-220 in order for the silicone to adhere. On the under side of the fender flange, lightly sand the perimeter, then use body filler or spot putty to make a decent, flat area for which the bucket will seal. Sand everything smooth, then spray a coat of clear lacquer or similar over this area (fiberglass can soften from continuous exposure to some greases).


    Spread a thin coating of grease around this perimeter of the flange out to about 1" from the inner perimeter. On the tops of the bucket flanges hold the caulk gun vertical to the flange so that the bead is forced outward and put a nice medium bead around the entire perimeter, then place the bucket over the studs and onto the greased fender flange.


    Install your retaining nuts and tighten assembly down. Resist the urge to not tighten it all the way down hoping for improved sealing with full torque after it cures: you would need fasteners every 1/2" to make that happen. Wipe excess off from inner bucket area with wet fingers and paper towels. Use your finger to push any squeeze-out from the outer perimeter up under the flange and let cure. Pull off buckets and carefully trim any excess silicone from the outer perimeter.


    For extra weather protection, use a extra layer of grease between the silicone and fender flange upon final assembly.

    You should now have 2 weatherproof and conformal headlights which didn't

  4. Thanks Kiwi Dave, driveslikejehu thanked for this post
    Likes driveslikejehu liked this post
  5. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    530
    Post Thanks / Like
    Interesting techniques. Might the molded in place silicone seal benefit from first prepping the fiberglass mat surface and making it smooth, maybe with a filler, or sanding, or both? I like the potted in place screws too! Keep em coming.

    I posted a while back with a suggestion for how to more securely attach the projector adjustment swivels. Check my posts.

    -Ben
    Last edited by ben1272; 08-25-2016 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #4
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    QC, Canada
    Posts
    5,732
    Post Thanks / Like
    Wow that's pretty ****ing awesome! Tnx for sharing.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  7. #5
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ben1272, thanks, I'll check out your posts. I prepped the area with spot putty, sanded it and sprayed 2 coats of clear lacquer over it...third to last pic.

  8. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    530
    Post Thanks / Like
    Man, you know....I read your entries, scanning up and down through the pics and never saw the section describing the sanding,prepping and finishing of that area! Sorry to repeat what you had already described!

    Now.....how are you holding down the lens?

  9. #7
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Leesburg, VA
    Posts
    1,624
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thank you for posting. I also wanted to implement bonded studs but wasn't sure about alignment to the headlight housing - I'll definitely use your gravity trick. Just to double check, are you putting grease between the bucket to fender interface and then applying silicone around the seam? Or applying silicone to the bucket and pressing that against a greasy fender mating surface? I can't tell what's silicone and what's grease in the pictures. If silicone is applied to the seam, is there any need for the grease?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blwalker105 View Post
    Ben1272, thanks, I'll check out your posts.
    Here is that post:
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ly-improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by ben1272 View Post
    Now.....how are you holding down the lens?
    Here's a technique for holding down the lenses:
    http://boatworkstoday.com/archives/1735
    Use 3M VHB 5952 tape follwed by a bead of silicone (Dow Corning 795 or 791)

  10. #8
    Senior Member JAubin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Goffstown, NH
    Posts
    232
    Post Thanks / Like
    Wow, lots of great detail on your technique and great photos too! I'm approaching this step in the near future, so will definitely be using some of these methods, thanks for the write up!
    --Joe
    818S #234 V7 EJ207 Spec-C (VF34) Build Thread

  11. #9
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    I put grease only on the fender, then placed the siliconized bucked on it. What you see in the pic with the caulk gun is actually the cured final product. Because of the need to open up a few of the mounting holes in the buckets, the finished product can move around maybe 1-2 mm when mounted, which may compromise the seal just slightly. Greasing the mounting surface during final assembly should make up for any misalignment.

    Ben's aluminum capture plates are an excellent idea! Whatever kind of plastic that is, it doesn't like most adhesives.

    When the time comes, I'll be doing the boatworks VHB technique for the lenses but probably without the last silicone perimeter part. Have to see how it looks.

  12. #10
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Leesburg, VA
    Posts
    1,624
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Blwalker105 View Post
    I put grease only on the fender, then placed the siliconized bucked on it. What you see in the pic with the caulk gun is actually the cured final product. Because of the need to open up a few of the mounting holes in the buckets, the finished product can move around maybe 1-2 mm when mounted, which may compromise the seal just slightly. Greasing the mounting surface during final assembly should make up for any misalignment.

    Ben's aluminum capture plates are an excellent idea! Whatever kind of plastic that is, it doesn't like most adhesives.

    When the time comes, I'll be doing the boatworks VHB technique for the lenses but probably without the last silicone perimeter part. Have to see how it looks.
    Ok, very helpful, thanks!

    I'm planning to cut a piece of vinyl wrap to cover the edge of the lens where the VHB tape would show.

  13. #11
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'll probably paint the top side of my headlight perimeter black.

  14. #12
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    2,374
    Post Thanks / Like
    Perfect timing as I've been trying to plan how to make my headlights removable and waterproof. Great ideas and detailed write-up. Thanks!
    Per the boatworkstoday video, it looks like the 3M VHB tape leaves a black border inside the lens so paint on the outside is not needed, but I'll order the tape and experiment first.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  15. #13
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    AZPete, yeah I hear you, but I had kind of a similar situation when I got my plane painted. The company did the little black painted perimeter thing on my windows and it looked SO good compared to others without it. I didn't even ask for it, they said that's just what they do. I am going to experiment with a piece of generic clear acrylic, some VHB and a scrap piece of fiberglass to kind of mock up the finished assembly. I'm guessing that being able to look down through the lens and seeing the tape and fiberglass flange edge is not going to be appealing. You can always wait till you see how it looks and paint the lens afterward if you don't like it. Actually, I trimmed down my fender flange to an even 3/8" all the way around to be able to lessen the width of the finished perimeter paint.

  16. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    530
    Post Thanks / Like
    A one piece laser cut piece of VHB, black, that fits the lens pocket perfectly with uniform width would be nice. Would be bad if small bubbles got trapped between VHB and lens.....black border paint might be best way...

  17. #15
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yep, in a perfect world...

  18. #16
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    BTW, the finished bucket passed the garden hose test today with flying colors albeit with one change. I could not fit the projector back onto the adjusters without smacking my greased bulb against the sides of the bucket's bore before it was thoroughly seated. So I seated the projector's bulb to the correct depth and packed Sil-Glyde grease from the rear of the bore with various angled tools, cotton swabs, etc, to make a nice seal. I moved the garden hose around from about every direction water could possibly enter the assembly and YEAH, everything looked good!

  19. #17
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    2,374
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks to Blwalker! I followed his ingenious method of epoxying studs to mount the headlight buckets and sealing everything so it is removable. My buckets were very close to the shape of the fender opening so I didn't have to heat it. I used #6 x 3/4" screws and since my fenders are already mounted I couldn't use the gravity method but just eyeballed the screws, which worked okay. He used Sil-Glyde and I used a silicon lube used for pool equipment, which both seal without melting when heated. Thanks, Blwalker!

    I mounted the lens with 1/2" 3M VHB tape which gives a nice black border. First, paint the inside edge of the opening black and test-fit the lens for shape and depth. Caution: most adhesives say to clean the surface with alcohol but alcohol leaves streaks on the lens surface, so don't use it. To get a nice black border I carefully pressed the tape onto the lens edge, and then pressed the tape thoroughly to remove all bubbles. You might want to practice with a small piece of tape on clear plastic or glass. Once it looks good, remove the red backing and carefully position the lens and press it down. I haven't filled the gap around the edge yet because I'll try black and clear sealant to see which I like best. On one lens I used two layers of tape on the outside edge to make it level with the body surface. The black border of the tape is not absolutely perfect, but pretty good, and I can paint the outside of the lens later if I want.
    lens mounted.jpg

    EDIT: After a week some bubbles have appeared under the lens on the VHB tape. The tape was a nice solid black after I pressed in onto the inside of the lens but now, 6 days later with the car garaged, bubbles show up. Eventually I'll paint the half-inch border but now I've got other projects.

    I replaced the round-head screws and plastic caps with 1/4 x 20 x 3/4 bolts, nylok nuts and nylon spacers. I tried gluing the caps, then making aluminum brackets, but opted for this method. The hex head bolts turn for adjustment the same as the slots cut into the bolts in the manual.

    light mount in bucket.jpg

    Next, I want to wire the lights but I'm confused how to connect the donor low beam & hi beam wires to the headlight & shutter connections.
    Last edited by AZPete; 09-08-2016 at 05:03 PM. Reason: added followup
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  20. #18
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    QC, Canada
    Posts
    5,732
    Post Thanks / Like
    What type of epoxy did you use? There's a bunch listed here I don't know which one to buy! http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/prod...oxy/epoxy.html
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  21. #19
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    2,374
    Post Thanks / Like
    Frank, I used JB Weld on the counter-sunk screw heads because I had it on hand.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  22. #20
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    QC, Canada
    Posts
    5,732
    Post Thanks / Like
    Tnx Pete, I guess 3M 8115 black epoxy will work then. I thought I needed epoxy resin for that kind of stuff but maybe panel bond is enough, as good, or better.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  23. #21
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    QC, Canada
    Posts
    5,732
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hey bwalker, there's something I don't get. When you drop the screws in and let gravity do the work, you mention to use hot glue. And then later you seem to remove those bolts and drop them back in to use resin. Why would you use hot glue in the first place and why removing them?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  24. #22
    Senior Member Blwalker105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sorry Frank, been a long time since I visited this post.

    The hot glue is just for the string.

  25. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    132
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for such a great write up. It made installing the headlight buckets almost painless.

    Since my buckets fit so closely to the contour of the fender, the only thing I did different was to use 1/8" X 1/2" closed cell foam weather stripping in place of the grease and silicone. Seems to make a really nice seal.

    Glenn

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Stewart Transport

Visit our community sponsor