Racelogic Traction Control for the 818...

[sponaugle]

I mentioned in a few other threads that I thought the RaceLogic Traction Control system would be a good fit for the 818. Rear wheel drive turbocharged cars are always in search of traction. I thought I would share the results of my installation of the RTCS on my 2006 GTO (twin turbocharged)... When I get my 818 and install the EZ30R I'll be using one of these!

[ORIGINAL POSTS]
As anyone with a modified GTO making 400+ lb-ft of wheel torque knows, you never have enough traction. After adding a twin turbo setup to my GTO a few years ago, I have always found to lack of traction to be the biggest limiting fun factor. I have a couple of modified Subarus that I daily drive, and the four wheel traction of those cars makes them effectively faster even with less horsepower (although 475whp and 525whp isn’t that much less..). I live in Portland which means more than 50% of the days are rainy, which translates to even worse traction in the high horsepower RWD car.

A few years ago I looked into the RaceLogic traction system and it seemed a perfect fit for the GTO. As all of us GTO owners know putting larger than 275 tires on the rear is difficult, and the stock rear suspension and driveline setup loves to wheel hop itself to pieces. For this thread I am going to focus on the results of installing and testing the Racelogic Traction Control system on my 2006 GTO. In a separate thread (I'll link to it here once I post it up) I’ll dive into the installation details, in great detail.

For those not familiar, the Racelogic traction control system (RTCS) is an aftermarket wire in system that uses the factory ABS wheel speed sensors to detect wheel speed slip conditions. Once slip is detected, the RTCS can sequentially cut fuel to individual fuel injectors (for a complete single combustion cycle) to reduce power. Since it is a pass thru connection system it will only do complete cycle fuel cut, meaning it will never cut only half of a fuel cycle resulting in a lean combustion mixture.

If you have ever worked with traction systems that uses timing retard as the primary method of power reduction, you will quickly discover that that method does not work well on very high horsepower turbocharged or supercharged applications. Reducing timing will reduce power, but in a relatively nonlinear fashion. Throttle closing applications are also difficult to work with as the reduction in throttle while the incoming air pressure is high can result in surging and bucking, as well as slow response to changes.

The RTCS is a single box computer as well as a cabin installable controller. Here it is compared to a factory ECU.


RTCS sitting next to my factory ECU.


In cabin installed digital adjuster module.


I found the spot to the left of the drivers wheel to be an easy place to access and see.

The first and most obvious question is: Does it work? The answer; Yes, and really really really well. I had a guess that it would work, but I had no idea it would work this well. Driving the car now is significantly more fun, faster, and safer than before. I have driven with the system in both the rain and dry and I would not want a high horsepower RWD car without it. (well, that or a really great factory system).

I think data speaks better than opinions, so let's dig in!

First, let's take a look at front and rear wheel speeds in a 2nd gear pull in my car with no traction control.



In the above graph you can see the absolute wheel speed of the front and rear wheels during a 2nd gear pull on a flat smooth dry road surface. As you can see, there is SIGNIFICANT wheel slip. At the end of the pull the front wheels are going 53MPH and the rear wheels are going 70MPH. This of course means that the car will be yawing sideways before snapping back into traction when you push in the clutch. Once you clutch-in, the rear wheels will almost instantly snap back to 53MPH. If not driven with care, that is how you swap ends at 50+MPH. For those that are curious that is a bit over 25% wheel slip.

Now with the RTCS engaged (on the WET setting), you get this:



There is obviously significantly less wheel spin, and when you reach redline 2nd gear the rear wheels are going almost the exact same speed as the front.

In talking about traction control, the percentage of driven to reference wheel slip is the key measurement. Here is a graph of the front to rear wheel slip percentages for my car with NO TC, 10% TC, 5% TC, and WET TC modes.



Here you can see how the different settings in the TC system (selected with the in cabin dial) effect the resulting wheel spin. The uncontrolled NO TC wheel spin terminates much sooner then the other pulls because the car hits redline in 2nd gear long before the car really gets to the equilivilent speed. The 10% and 5% figures, according to the manual, represent the additional slip allowed over the configurable staring slip control. In my case that starting slip is 5%, so the 10% TC setting should allow approximately 15% slip, and the 5% TC setting should allow approximately 10% slip. Indeed the slip numbers are close, but not perfect to the target values.

I'll note here that the RTCS has a great Windows software interface that allows complete adjustability over the TC process. You can control how and to what rate fuel is cut as well as adjust what slip profiles need what levels of traction adjustment. I am using the stock options and they worked surprisingly well.

[sponaugle]

I have often wondered if during the low traction high slip events whether or not my rear LSD is working correctly. A bit of data confirms that even when the rear wheels are under significant acceleratory slip load, they stay pretty even:



The same data collected with the RTCS turned on show similar results:



The differential is a bit less with the TC on, but not in a way that makes any real difference. It looks like my LSD is working at least a little bit!

I also did some testing in 1st gear, which obviously has a sharper onset of slip.



Here is a graph of wheel slip in 1st gear with the TC turned off compared to the WET TC setting. With NO TC then wheel speed quickly jumps to 25%+ slip before hitting the rev limiter. With the TC system turned on the wheel slip still ramps to 10% before tailing off as the TC reduces traction. In this case it is possible I might get a bit better response with a small tweak to the TC system, but it seems that 5-10% slip nets the best overall acceleration.

In first gear the rear LSD has to work faster, so I though it helpful to look at the rear wheel speed differentials.



With NO TC the rear wheels stay pretty well aligned with each other, but you can see the wheel hop speed oscillations at the end of the pull.

Adding in the TC system:



The addition of the TC has reduced the upper end wheel hop significantly, and side to side variance remains small.

It is clear the RTCS works. The next obvious question is how does it affect performance.

Here is a comparative datalog of a 2nd gear pull to redline with and without TC.



The upper redline is the vehicle speed with the TC on. You can see the car accelerates from 30MPH to about 68MPH, and the upper part of the acceleration is at about 15.3 MPH/sec. The next line down in blue is the same 2nd Gear pull but with the TC turned off. You can see that once the wheel slip sets in the acceleration drops to about 11.8 MPH/sec.

The lower two lines show the rear wheel speed (using the right hand scale btw), and you can clearly see the blue wheel slip. As in previous graphs the NO TC speed in ends quicker and at a lower speed due to the engine hitting redline while the rear wheels slip.

Even with the traction control cutting power, the overall net acceleration is greater than the full slip situation.

[sponaugle]

An even better representation of the gains can been seen with a 2nd and 3rd gear acceleration run:



Here the red line represents a 30 to 85 MPH run using 2nd and 3rd gear. Elapsed time for that speed change was 4.13 seconds. The next lower blue line is the same speed range but ran with the TC off. Due to extensive wheel slip in 2nd gear, the shift to 3rd gear happens at 48MPH instead of 68MPH. Once in third gear acceleration is of course less than it would be at the corresponding speed in 2nd gear. Net change is to 5.76 seconds, a 1.63 second ( 40% ) difference. The lower two lines show the engine RPM, which shows the rapid rise in the NO TC case.

Finally let's look at the wheel slip for the above 2nd and 3rd gear pulls:



The No TC wheel slip is obvious compared to the same run with the TC active.

If you have a high horsepower GTO, you might want to consider a system like this. It is not difficult to install, and it works.

[END OF ORIGINAL POST]

So, thoughts on this when installed in the 818? If I remember correctly the cost of the 4 cylinder unit is around $1000, but don't quote me on that.

Certainly if you are building a wire harness, I would consider adding a pass thru for the 4 fuel injector wires..

Oh.. and keep the ABS sensor wheels and sensors!

Jeff

[longislandwrx]

So this wires inline with the injectors? Seems easy enough.

What has your experience been with non straight line acceleration? Any fear of snap oversteer as the unit draws out power?

Is the frequency of unit adjustable?

Price seems steep but that controller is nice, is it available without it?

[sponaugle]

So this wires inline with the injectors? Seems easy enough.

Yep. Inline with the injectors, and in parallel to the factory ABS sensors. Since the 818 will not have ABS, the ABS sensors would just go to TC unit.

What has your experience been with non straight line acceleration? Any fear of snap oversteer as the unit draws out power?

As far as I can tell, this is not a problem. The software to configure the TC has a setting for detecting when you are turning (which is pretty obvious via the front wheel differentials), and you can adjust how to applies torque reduction. The reduction in power is very seemless, since you are cutting single cylinders in a sequential pattern. For example in my above test in most cases I was cutting only 1 or 2 cylinders out of 8 fire cycles.. and the actual chosen cylinder is rotated.

Is the frequency of unit adjustable?

Frequency of the cuts? Yes, there is a configuration where you setup what cut order happens at what levels of slip, and it has an additional integration (PID controller like..) to add more cut if needed.

Price seems steep but that controller is nice, is it available without it?

Yes, you can get it without the digital adjuster, and it is a bit cheaper. I really don't know any other competitor products that work as well, but your mileage may vary. I'd love to hear others results from other products.

Jeff

[mekohler]

I have been considering the race logic unit as well, if there is enough interest possibly we could get a group buy going. This seem like a good purchase based on my research. I too would like to know the answers to Longislandwrx's questions.

[Turboguy]

In addition to the 818, this system would be a PERFECT addition to many fuel-injected FFR Cobras. A 2000lb RWD car with monster V-8 torque can be deadly! You're (almost) making me regret going carb on mine.


One question/point I would ask/make: In the TC vs no-TC comparisons I would assume we are comparing full-throttle application in both cases? I ask because it occurs to me that a skilled race driver could limit wheel slip through throttle modulation.

Then again, it also occurs to me that the best performance envelope would be achieved in a system where the driver requests full throttle and a computer algorithm doles the power out as it can be used. If it weren't, you'd think some F1 cars during the traction-control era would have foregone the system.

[Turboguy]

When I get my 818 and install the EZ30R I'll be using one of these!

This raises another interesting question: does Racelogic make a stand-alone ECU system we could use to manage the EZ30R? Or do they license their technology to someone that does?


Having integrated TC would be perfect - PLUS there would likely be a cost savings, and it would take care of the engine management issues we will face in running an EZ30R without it's factory ECU & automatic transmission package.

[Xusia]

Jeff,

This is outstanding information. THANK YOU! I was not previously considering this unit, but your excellent information is now making me give this some serious thought. I can see it solving 2 different problems for me:
1. Managing the hit of power my engine is going to make at full boost (I'm going to do some work in addition to what's already been done. I just CAN'T help myself!)
2. Finding enough grip with street tires.

Thanks again.

[Xusia]

Also, for the curious, MSRP at current exchange rates put the traction control alone at ~$810, and the adjuster at ~$320, for a combined $1130.

[sponaugle]

I have been considering the race logic unit as well, if there is enough interest possibly we could get a group buy going. This seem like a good purchase based on my research. I too would like to know the answers to Longislandwrx's questions.

Agreed... if this ends up working well, a group buy could save some significant $. We may be able to get them directly from the UK that way as well.

In addition to the 818, this system would be a PERFECT addition to many fuel-injected FFR Cobras. A 2000lb RWD car with monster V-8 torque can be deadly! You're (almost) making me regret going carb on mine.
One question/point I would ask/make: In the TC vs no-TC comparisons I would assume we are comparing full-throttle application in both cases? I ask because it occurs to me that a skilled race driver could limit wheel slip through throttle modulation.
Then again, it also occurs to me that the best performance envelope would be achieved in a system where the driver requests full throttle and a computer algorithm doles the power out as it can be used. If it weren't, you'd think some F1 cars during the traction-control era would have foregone the system.

Yep.. it seems this is something that Factory Five might want to offer as an option. It could be integrated into the provided wire harness which would make installation easy. My first test were at full throttle, but I have been playing around with part throttle and corner entry/exit application. Stay tuned for some more data.

As for the throttle reduction, yes you are correct, although in a turbo environment the throttle becomes very non linear since the absolute boost response is decoupled from the current throttle angle. You can do some modulation, but my experience is that you usually overdo the correction and leave lots of power/acceleration on the table.

[longislandwrx]

I saw a group buy for the 6 cyl version for $850 with the control unit. If we could get one started at a price like that I may be interested too, their launch control seemed to be pretty reasonable too.

(this was last year on a BMW forum)

[Xusia]

For $850, I'd definitely buy one.

[sponaugle]

This raises another interesting question: does Racelogic make a stand-alone ECU system we could use to manage the EZ30R? Or do they license their technology to someone that does?
Having integrated TC would be perfect - PLUS there would likely be a cost savings, and it would take care of the engine management issues we will face in running an EZ30R without it's factory ECU & automatic transmission package.

No, they don't make a complete ECM package.. that is a much larger ball of wax. To drive the EZ30R you can use the Hydra,Motec, or ViPEC/Link. (or Autronic I suspect). The Vipec/Link is a good option that a few other Subaru guys have done successfully.

I would not run a factory EZ30R ECU, at least not if I wanted it to be fast.

Jeff,

This is outstanding information. THANK YOU! I was not previously considering this unit, but your excellent information is now making me give this some serious thought. I can see it solving 2 different problems for me:
1. Managing the hit of power my engine is going to make at full boost (I'm going to do some work in addition to what's already been done. I just CAN'T help myself!)
2. Finding enough grip with street tires.

Thanks again.

Right on.. that is exactly what I was thinking. Fast spooling turbocharged applications are a perfect fit for this kind of system. Sure you can just run less boost, but then you leave power on the table. I would prefer to have maximum available forward thrust.

Also, for the curious, MSRP at current exchange rates put the traction control alone at ~$810, and the adjuster at ~$320, for a combined $1130.

Sounds right. If we have enough interest, I can contact RaceLogic about a GB.

Jeff

[VD2021]

The RLTC is a great system.

Many of the GTM Guys tagged on to a group buy, not too long ago, so quite a few GTMs have the system. http://www.gtm-supercar.com/?p=2033

I'm sure you Guys could work up or tag onto another group buy.

If you're even considering this system you should make it a point to hold on to your wheel speed sensors/system.

[sponaugle]

I saw a group buy for the 6 cyl version for $850 with the control unit. If we could get one started at a price like that I may be interested too, their launch control seemed to be pretty reasonable too.

(this was last year on a BMW forum)

Oh.. yea.. Launch control is included in this system. I have not set mine up yet, but I'll post back once I get it going. Keep in mind the factory ECUs can be flashed with Launch Control and flat foot shifting, so the TC is the really interesting part.

Jeff

[RM1SepEx]

very nice... long term for me though. I'll make sure to hold onto my ABS sensors

[FFR-ADV]

Great Info!

A group buy is a great idea. Please keep us posted?

Thank you!

[sponaugle]

The RLTC is a great system.

Many of the GTM Guys tagged on to a group buy, not too long ago, so quite a few GTMs have the system. http://www.gtm-supercar.com/?p=2033
I'm sure you Guys could work up or tag onto another group buy.
If you're even considering this system you should make it a point to hold on to your wheel speed sensors/system.

Thanks for the link. Indeed I was most impressed with how well it works. I can imagine the GTM guys could really use a system like this with the combo of light weight and strong V8 torque.

very nice... long term for me though. I'll make sure to hold onto my ABS sensors

Yep.. If the 818 parts guys are building kits, they should consider leaving this in as an option.

Great Info!

A group buy is a great idea. Please keep us posted?

Thank you!

Will do. I'll reach out to RaceLogic.

Also if you are interesting in seeing how the installation wen, check out this thread: http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522370

Cheers, Jeff

[JAubin]

Just when I thought I had a handle on all the various additional components I wanted! Thanks for all the info Jeff, this looks well worth the cost!

[erachner]

I have been considering the race logic unit as well, if there is enough interest possibly we could get a group buy going. This seem like a good purchase based on my research. I too would like to know the answers to Longislandwrx's questions.

My intention from the get-go has been to integrate RaceLogic, since the plan for my build has been to aim for around 400bhp or thereabouts, and I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid.

So I'm +1 for any contemplated group purchase. Thanks in advance to whoever ends up taking the lead on this.

[Ironhydroxide]

I've always wondered... what if instead of "interrupting" the Injector pulses, one interrupted the coil signals? making it a spark cut (safer for turbo cars) instead of a boost cut.

i believe the reason they do not suggest this is because not all ignition systems have coil on plug setups. some are wasted spark, (one coil 2 cylinders) and some are only one coil (distributor).

[fastthings]

This video sold me.

I bought the system off a guy who got it from a group buy. I will be using the launch control. I have dreems of using the ISIS for a one push button to activate launch controll with a 5 to 10 second "hazard" light show, then launch. I'm right in the middle of installing the ISIS, RLTC will be spliced in right after that. I am wiring the car to run on a bare bones system. I can start my car and run it without the ISIS, or if my inTOUCH screen gets broke. Same theory with the RLTC, the harness is built so it can be unplugged and bypassed. I can drive home with all systems failed.

Ironhydroxide, "I've always wondered... what if instead of "interrupting" the Injector pulses, one interrupted the coil signals? making it a spark cut" We used to do that when we where kids. We would take his dads truck, drive by some girls, hold down the throtle turn off the ignition for a sencond or two, then turn it back on and, BOOOM! We would just about blow the muffler out. That's why I won't do that.

[Ironhydroxide]

But it's a rotary system. Won't boom just pop and sputter like antilag on rally machines.

[Xusia]

Cutting fuel is safer. If you only cut spark, un-burnt fuel passes through the system, and could therefore ignite when/where you wouldn't want.

[Turboguy]

Oh.. yea.. Launch control is included in this system. I have not set mine up yet, but I'll post back once I get it going.

I thought launch control was an option on the RaceLogic system?


On the WEBsite it appears you can buy it with and without launch control -- just thought people should be aware of that so they didn't expect launch control unless they bought the unit that has that feature installed.

[WIS89]

Excuse me for a modest thread high-jack...

In the thread someone mentioned using this on the Roadster. It appears to me that you need ABS sensors to make this system work properly. If you buy the complete kit, you wouldn't have any ABS sensors. Can you purchase or get a donor system for the ABS parts necessary to make the Racelogic system work on a Roadster?

Sorry for the intrusion, but it seems like a pretty solid benefit, if you are up to the work...

Thanks for anyone willing to help me understand this better!

Regards,

Steve

[Turboguy]

In the thread someone mentioned using this on the Roadster. It appears to me that you need ABS sensors to make this system work properly. If you buy the complete kit, you wouldn't have any ABS sensors. Can you purchase or get a donor system for the ABS parts necessary to make the Racelogic system work on a Roadster?

The SN95 front hubs/knuckles I used in my Roadster build came with ABS rings on them, so there must be a solid axle to match. My guess is you could buy and retrofit the parts. Someone doing a fresh build could simply buy donor parts that have the ABS rings and sensors installed. It might get more complicated if doing an IRS rear, as I do not know if the t-bird ever had ABS.

A quick question or two in the roadster forum will likely yield a ton of answers as to which model year & trim level rustangs came with factory ABS, and any IRS-compatible ABS hardware that's out there if the t-bird didn't have it.


....now back to our regularly scheduled programming

[narkosys]

you can buy wheel speed sensors from Race Logic if you do not have ABS.

P

Excuse me for a modest thread high-jack...

In the thread someone mentioned using this on the Roadster. It appears to me that you need ABS sensors to make this system work properly. If you buy the complete kit, you wouldn't have any ABS sensors. Can you purchase or get a donor system for the ABS parts necessary to make the Racelogic system work on a Roadster?

Sorry for the intrusion, but it seems like a pretty solid benefit, if you are up to the work...

Thanks for anyone willing to help me understand this better!

Regards,

Steve

[WIS89]

Turboguy- Yeah, sorry for the modest thread-jack!! It was only slightly tangential....

Narkosys-- Thanks for the answer; that's perfect. I didn't see that on their website. I am sure it's there, and I just overlooked it. This has got the wheels turning--- pun intended!!

Thanks for the feedback without the flames for the thread-jack!!

Regards,

Steve

[sponaugle]

Just when I thought I had a handle on all the various additional components I wanted! Thanks for all the info Jeff, this looks well worth the cost!

Yes, it seems the list of cool things never ends. I had a friend who had an Ariel Atom that was turbocharged and could really have used a system like this!

I've always wondered... what if instead of "interrupting" the Injector pulses, one interrupted the coil signals? making it a spark cut (safer for turbo cars) instead of a boost cut.
i believe the reason they do not suggest this is because not all ignition systems have coil on plug setups. some are wasted spark, (one coil 2 cylinders) and some are only one coil (distributor).

There are some other systems that use ignition cut. I have used ignition cut on other cars, and it works. However it does have some drawbacks: First you have a lot of unburnt fuel in the exhaust system, which will eventually ignite. EGTs can get high, and there is no way a catalytic converter can survive for long. Second you do have occasional post-ignition in the cylinder, which causes some unusual misfires and even higher spot EGTs.

At very high loads when you need TC the most, you are dumping tons of fuel that would get blown thru.

This video sold me.
I bought the system off a guy who got it from a group buy. I will be using the launch control. I have dreems of using the ISIS for a one push button to activate launch controll with a 5 to 10 second "hazard" light show, then launch. I'm right in the middle of installing the ISIS, RLTC will be spliced in right after that. I am wiring the car to run on a bare bones system. I can start my car and run it without the ISIS, or if my inTOUCH screen gets broke. Same theory with the RLTC, the harness is built so it can be unplugged and bypassed. I can drive home with all systems failed.

Cool video.. I'll make a few videos as well... it really makes a cool sound.

I thought launch control was an option on the RaceLogic system?
On the WEBsite it appears you can buy it with and without launch control -- just thought people should be aware of that so they didn't expect launch control unless they bought the unit that has that feature installed.

You are correct! I didn't notice the non traction control options. I'll see about getting both options in the GB. Then again, it is only a 50 quid difference.. so why sweat it!

you can buy wheel speed sensors from Race Logic if you do not have ABS.
P

Indeed... and I have seen the wheel sensors installed using not an ABS tone wheel but just the back of the lugs



Jeff

[fateo66]

I just wanted to jump in the thread and point out that the Autronic SM4 that I have for sale is not only an awesome and powerfull ECU but it also has traction control....

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...18-but-not-all

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Sponaugle,

Thank you for providing this great info. I sure hope that a group buy can work out as many of us (myself included) will benefit from this traction control.

Thanks again!

Steve

[Buzz Skyline]

This is a great write up! Thanks for taking to time to document it so well.

I will probably begin with an open diff, when I first assemble my 818S, and then add an LSD later. Do you know if there is any benefit to using the traction control system with an open diff? (Or if it might actually be a bad idea.)

Thanks,

Buzz

[Xusia]

I called and asked that question (of the US dealer, that is) and was told there is no issue using the RLTC system with an open diff. However, when using an open diff there is a higher likelihood of wheel spin when cornering which would cause the system to intervene and reduce engine power output, resulting in less drive off the corner (it could be argued that with the wheel spinning and no RLTC that any excess power is simply producing even more wheel spin, and NOT helping drive at all, therefore drive off the corner is essentially the same...).

My main concern wasn't drive off the corner (daily street driver), but the prevention of end swapping if traction is lost. They said the system can't save you from yourself in all situations (standard idiot disclaimer), but that is should be effective in preventing end swapping under most circumstances.

Hope that helps.

[Buzz Skyline]

Thanks, Xusia. I'll plan to try to duplicate some of sponaugle's graphs with an open diff to get hard data showing what performance differences are with an open diff and TC at various settings. It'll be about a year before I'm ready for that though.

[wleehendrick]

My main concern wasn't drive off the corner (daily street driver), but the prevention of end swapping if traction is lost. They said the system can't save you from yourself in all situations (standard idiot disclaimer), but that is should be effective in preventing end swapping under most circumstances.

Unfortunately, traction control (cutting power in response to wheel spin) can only do so much. Yes, it should help a good driver extract the maximum performance from the vehicle, especially on the track, but for unexpected conditions on the street, and countering a truly ham-fisted driver, the addition of stability control (selective wheel braking in response to excessive yaw rate) is far more effective. Stability control is statistically much more effective than ABS or traction control for accident avoidance which is why it's been mandated on all new vehicles since last year.

As an example, traction control can't do anything to counter lift throttle oversteer common on some rear/mid engined cars (i.e. early 911s), whereas in an oversteer situation, stability control can brake the outside front wheel, potentially keeping the car from spinning.

Adding full stability control to the 818 is probably cost-prohibitive. However, a well balanced chassis (as the track testing and R&T article seem to indicate) with grippy tires should provide an acceptable margin for error to the decent/attentive driver.

[PhyrraM]

On the turbo 818s, I anticipate a fairly narrow window between power on oversteer and lift throttle oversteer. Most inexperienced drivers, when encountered with a sudden "oh ****' moment will usually do one or the other.

Ironically, in the 818 - with the chassis as balanced as it is being said it is, simply riding it out is the best (if least chosen by noobs) choice.

It will be interesting to see how this thing develops for FFR. In properly trained hands the 818, with any level of power, will be an amazing value and (rightly) should sell well. However, with it's unique combination of price, ease of assembly, weight, donor car power range, and cult like following of both donor and FFR I see lots of these being sold to a demographic that would never even consider a Roadster, Hot Rod or even dune buggy. A demographic that "knows it all", if you know what I mean.

[IMPREZvWRX]

Oh.. yea.. Launch control is included in this system. I have not set mine up yet, but I'll post back once I get it going. Keep in mind the factory ECUs can be flashed with Launch Control and flat foot shifting, so the TC is the really interesting part.

Jeff

I have a ROM I patched myself for my v8 JDM ECU, but I'm afraid to flash it in.

However, with it's unique combination of price, ease of assembly, weight, donor car power range, and cult like following of both donor and FFR I see lots of these being sold to a demographic that would never even consider a Roadster, Hot Rod or even dune buggy. A demographic that "knows it all", if you know what I mean.

I resemble that remark!

I probably won't miss ABS, but TC should probably be on my shopping list. Perhaps selling off my 6MT could fetch enough for a decent 5MT and this kit.

[Hindsight]

I'm going to bring this thread back up from the dead to share one important thing about the Race Logic unit (which isn't available new anymore): On the Subaru, it won't work with the ABS computer unfortunately. You can have ABS, or you can have the Race Logic traction control, but you can't have both. The traction control system works fine with the Subaru wheel speed sensors if you leave the ABS computer unhooked but as soon as you plug the ABS computer in (AKA have the wheel speed sensors connected to both the ABS computer and the traction control computer), the traction control computer loses the signal of the sensors and won't work.

Makes for a difficult decision: ABS, or Traction Control. I really wanted both but now I'm going to have to decide.