Door Modification

[Aceflo]

Is there any reason that should prevent me from cutting the upright portion of this GTM door off (white arrow) and just glass it to the body somehow (blue arrow) ?

door mod.jpg

[RumRunner]

Ace,

There is at least 1 GTM with that mod - only wish I could recall who it was! Anyone else remember?

So no, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

-Michael

[Alcarp]

Dan Daverno had his done, looks good

[Aceflo]

I wonder if he has anything posted in the forums. I guess I will have to look around. If you guys come across a thread with his modification, please let me know.

Thanks.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

What do you hope to gain by doing so?

[Aceflo]

It's purely an aesthetic thing for me. I find the door really strange having a little arm stick up on the backside of it. In addition, I think it would be easier to get the door aligned properly. That section on both of my doors is molded a little off, so I'm going to have to cut it and patch them to bend that section rearward.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

IMO, it all depends on how you plan to do your windows and if you have any expectations that they're going to seal at all. We bond a window channel to that pillar to support/seal the rear edge of the glass. So, with the door shut and the window up, that pillar is supporting the top of the glass to keep it in it's vertical position. Without that pillar there (and the channel to support it) the only thing keeping the window in position will be the clamps on the window regulator.

[kabacj]

ace.

I'd also consider the fact by bonding the upright section at the rear of the door to the body, the door opening will be smaller.

That area of the door is where your body wants to be when you get in and out. You might
Find that the amount of bodywork is less after you get everything aligned.

I know my door skins just bolted on looked like they were way out. Then after adjusting the fiberglass on the frame I was able to get everything to fit well without any major surgery.

YMMV

John

[Aceflo]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm gonna have to rethink this a bit. On my 2005 Mustang, I do no have a window channel on that back edge of the doors, and the glass (in a more or less simplistic explanation) just shuts against the rubber to seal. I would imagine that Ford has probably designed the regulator to deal with pressure on the glass from the various forces that push against its plane. It may well be a better option to have a channel for the glass to ride up using the Corvette regulators.

Then, there is the edge of that upright portion of the door..... How is the upright portion of the door finished in order to get a cosmetically manufactured appearance, rather than a sheet of fiberglass sticking up?

[The Stig]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm gonna have to rethink this a bit. On my 2005 Mustang, I do no have a window channel on that back edge of the doors, and the glass (in a more or less simplistic explanation) just shuts against the rubber to seal. I would imagine that Ford has probably designed the regulator to deal with pressure on the glass from the various forces that push against its plane. It may well be a better option to have a channel for the glass to ride up using the Corvette regulators.

Then, there is the edge of that upright portion of the door..... How is the upright portion of the door finished in order to get a cosmetically manufactured appearance, rather than a sheet of fiberglass sticking up?

Well, as you can tell by the pictures and explanations in my thread we had to pretty much work the doors from front to back, and from top to bottom. There wasn't a square inch that wasn't massaged in some way in order to get it to fit correctly.

Once the doors fit the body the way they were supposed to, the posts and windows had to be fitted into place. It is next to impossible to get the windows to seal completely without performing a little plastic surgery to reshape the problem areas a bit.

At the very least, you should consider cutting the posts and then placing them where they will fit against the car correctly; mine had to be leaned back (at the top) about an inch. Then the post was in correct position to line up with the rear of the car, and the roof.

Then build up the void(s) with fiberglass. Go somewhat heavy in order to make the post more solid.

The front "triangle" on the door had quite a bit of magic poured over it as well, but I'm not really at liberty to say much about what was done there.

Mike

[Aceflo]

Good Advice Mike.

I'm gonna go back and look at your project and a few others. The idea of cutting it off and glassing the post to the body seemed to be the easiest "short-cut" to making things fit, but I'm just going to take my time and massage the heck out of each side I suppose.

[Presto51]

ace.

I'd also consider the fact by bonding the upright section at the rear of the door to the body, the door opening will be smaller.

That area of the door is where your body wants to be when you get in and out. You might
Find that the amount of bodywork is less after you get everything aligned.
I know my door skins just bolted on looked like they were way out. Then after adjusting the fiberglass on the frame I was able to get everything to fit well without any major surgery.

YMMV

John

It's purely an aesthetic thing for me. I find the door really strange having a little arm stick up on the backside of it. In addition, I think it would be easier to get the door aligned properly. That section on both of my doors is molded a little off, so I'm going to have to cut it and patch them to bend that section rearward.

The one major aspect to consider, before you think about the door alignment, is to make really sure that the main section of the body is properly mounted to the chassis (don't follow the manual it's wrong IMHO). If it doesn't fit right, it will play havoc with mounting the rest of the panels.

Ron

[Aceflo]

Hey Ron.

As with most things on custom builds, there are always some adjustments. In what way are the manual instructions wrong? I don't really have much of a reference to what is right or wrong except when looking at it currently, my entire main body section needs to move forward some in relation to the spacing between the rear fender and the wheel edges.

-Rick

[Presto51]

Rick,

IMHO and if I remember correctly, what is wrong with the instructions in the manual for mounting the main body section, is that they have you taking measurements from fix points on the chassis. Since FFR doesn't have a big R&D department, and their real strength, is chassis design, when it comes to the body, somethings fall a little short (think of the difference of the width of the right door to the left door).

RumRunner and I developed the steps, and he wrote them out. I tried to find the link that he originally posted it in, but was not successful, so I will re-post his documentation, (It's a little long, but worth the read)

If your wondering, I have shared these steps with at least five other forum members, and have gotten good feed back. Keep in mind that the main body is the foundation for all the corresponding panels to fit as well as possible, you will still have the fun, and responsibility of final fit and finish.



GTM Main Body Mounting Steps

When mounting the body to the chassis focus on alignment of the wheel wells fore-aft and
left-right, with the chassis at ride height, with all wheels in alignment. We did have to pull a
bit to the passenger’s side. Big difference for me was attaching the body at the rear of the
chassis first ... not up front like the manual says. Let the front float until the rear is spot-on.

1. Set ride height.

2. When setting the height, after each change at any corner, jump up and down on the
frame a few times at different locations, then roll the car backward and forward at least 6
feet to let the car adjust to the new setting. Do this each time you change anything. Yes it
takes time, but it also takes out any odd stress in the system that the change may have put
into it.

3. Make certain wheels are aligned, especially rear wheels are aligned for camber and toe
(or damn close). If you are going to use the wheels to orient the body, you want them in
their final position.

4. Make certain the car is sitting on the ground.

5. Drill two 1/4" holes vertically through the rear-most chassis member - the one that the
angle iron will sit on. I used a piece of 1" angle 11" long to affix the rear body to the
chassis. I actually ground down the welds on top of that piece so the angle iron would sit
flat. The holes should be about 1 1/2" in from either end, and close to the front-most edge
(not the center). When the angle is placed on this piece, want it easy to drill it.

6. Now put the body on the chassis. Make certain the body wraps under the door areas like
it should. Go ahead and push it as far forward as it will go. just for kicks.

7. Do not rivet anything at this point (DO NOT FOLLOW THE MANUAL).

8. Get a floor jack and jack up the rear of the body until the wheels look centered on each
side. When you're close, measure from the floor to the top edge of each wheel well arch and
adjust until the measurements are the same.

9. When the height is perfect on both sides, and the wheels look centered in their openings,
CLAMP the body to the piece of angle iron with some C-clamps through the exhaust
openings so the body can't shift up and down.

10. Remove the jack to make certain it is not influencing the body position.

11. Now, push the rear end right or left to get the same tire reveal on each wheel. Hold a
straightedge vertically along the tire, and measure from the straightedge to the top of the
wheel arch on each side. Move the body back and forth until these measurements are
identical side-to-side.

12. Once they are identical, CLAMP the angle iron also to the chassis to fix the back end
from moving side-to-side.

13. At this point, the rear end should be clamped solid.

14. Repeat every measurement (height of wheel arch to floor, and tire reveal). Once you are
convinced that the body is positioned well with respect to the tires, walk away from the car
and look at the wheel wells on both sides from a distance (maybe 10 feet). They should look
damn good. Now look at the wheels from a distance from the rear of the car. They should
look identical on both sides.

15. If you're not happy, loosen the clamps and re-adjust a bit, then repeat step 14 until all
looks good.

16. Once it looks good, drill and rivet three 3/16" rivets through the body (license plate
area) and into the angle iron. Then drill two 1/4" holes up through the angle iron using the
holes you already drilled through the chassis as a guide. Lock the angle iron to the chassis
using 1 1/2" long 1/4"x20 bolts and washers/locknuts (To make it easier to remove later,
rather than drilling out rivets).

17. Now it's ok to remove all the clamps

18. Step back and look at how damn good it looks!

19. Next, I fiddled with the gap between the door sill and body. That can still go up and
down. Don't worry about the gap at the door pillar - the body is fixed fore-aft at the rear. I
did put the bulb seal on the wiper enclosure and push it into place (or close), just so I had
the front of the body at about the right height. I ended up having about 1/8" clearance
between the body and the halo bars at the bend. Everywhere else there was more clearance
than that. I test fit the halo bar padding and it was fine, so I decided to let the body sit
where it wanted to.

20. Get some shim material (I used these great peel-off wood-fiber shims) and fill the gap
at two locations along each door sill. Drill through the body, shim material, and chassis with
a 3/16" bit and rivet them all together. Eventually these shims will be replaced with
fiberglass or filler.

21. You can do the same gap-fill-and-rivet along both vertical door pillars as well (I did).

22. Now, twenty-two steps later, the body is fixed in position, with enough clearance
between the body and halo bars to accommodate the halo pad and fabric cover, and the
wheel well alignment looks fantastic!

Hope this helps

Ron

[Aceflo]

Ron,

Thanks for the write up. I regards to the general process, I think my mind was going that direction. Your outline is sounds PERFECT for getting the body mounted where it needs to be. I think I will put the doors away for now and focus on the rest of the car. I've only put a few screws (that I can remove) in to hold the body in place. My thoughts were to get everything in a general mounting position and gauge where I was going to have to spend time with modifications. I trust your guy's wisdom on this and will wait to fiddle with doors and hood until I get that body right where it should be.

I've printed these instructions up and stapled them to my book. Thanks again.

Rick