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Thread: MK4 #8951 Build

  1. #41
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    I finally got around to uploading some time lapse videos. Here is number 3: https://youtu.be/V3HZqevtqL8 If you look on my channel I am up to numbe 6.

  2. #42
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lahrs37 View Post
    I imagine it will be easier when there is less stuff to get in the way.
    When I ran my brake lines the only panels I had installed where the F-panels and the DS foot box front panel ...

    Here are some lessons I learned from the installation:

    1. I purchased some additional short pieces of brake line to avoid making my own flaring ... I ended up with one and it was the one that leaked when I bled the brakes;
    2. Purchase a set of the brake line wrenches;
    3. Make sure you do not route them under the 4" tubes exposing them to be crushed if you hit a speed bump too hard;
    4. I found the routing of the rear line from the master down to the 4" tube a little tricky because you want to keep it away from the headers ... really the heat from the headers. I ended up routing it down the front right corner of the inside of the insulated foot box;
    5. With the wilwood pedal box I installed Mike Forte's excellent hydraulic clutch kit so I have 3 separate reservoirs for the fluid ... I insulated the lines from the reservoirs to the front foot box wall for added heat protection; and,
    6. If your planning on using a mat like insulation put it on the inside of the panels before installing taking care to leave room for the rivets ... it is a very real PIA trying to do it after they are mounted on the frame.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  3. #43
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Those are some great tips, thanks Carl! I also ordered the hydraulic clutch from Forte.


    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    When I ran my brake lines the only panels I had installed where the F-panels and the DS foot box front panel ...

    Here are some lessons I learned from the installation:

    1. I purchased some additional short pieces of brake line to avoid making my own flaring ... I ended up with one and it was the one that leaked when I bled the brakes;
    2. Purchase a set of the brake line wrenches;
    3. Make sure you do not route them under the 4" tubes exposing them to be crushed if you hit a speed bump too hard;
    4. I found the routing of the rear line from the master down to the 4" tube a little tricky because you want to keep it away from the headers ... really the heat from the headers. I ended up routing it down the front right corner of the inside of the insulated foot box;
    5. With the wilwood pedal box I installed Mike Forte's excellent hydraulic clutch kit so I have 3 separate reservoirs for the fluid ... I insulated the lines from the reservoirs to the front foot box wall for added heat protection; and,
    6. If your planning on using a mat like insulation put it on the inside of the panels before installing taking care to leave room for the rivets ... it is a very real PIA trying to do it after they are mounted on the frame.

    Carl

  4. #44

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Hey Lahrs37,

    I couldn't do a decent flair to save my life so I'd measure what I needed and hit the local parts store.
    While it cost me a few extra dollars, it saved me tons of time and headaches.
    They came out looking FANTASTIC so if this guy can do it then so can you!

    Steve

  5. #45
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    Hey Lahrs37, I couldn't do a decent flair to save my life so I'd measure what I needed and hit the local parts store.
    While it cost me a few extra dollars, it saved me tons of time and headaches.
    They came out looking FANTASTIC so if this guy can do it then so can you! Steve
    I too used pre-flared lines, for both brake and fuel. I bought the armored ones, for a little added insurance against a rock, or road debris hitting them.

    Back in the day (2009), because FFR deleted all the lines, (even from their base kit), for all Canadian buyers, there was a Canadian Completion list available. That list showed all that was still required. The pre-flared lines were listed with the number, and length required to complete the roadster. Never had any problem, and I was very happy with the results.
    FFR6803RD, MK 3.1, 302 EFI, fr/rr disc brakes, WC-T5, c/w Hurst Competition Plus shifter, 3 link rear, Koni adjustable coil over shocks, dual roll bars, BBK 4-4 headers, 3.55 rear gears, BBK rear lower control arms c/w poly bushings. Ivy Green Metallic Arrived-02/08, On road 09/2010

  6. #46
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Thanks guys on the suggestion to go with pre-flared lines. I just finished installing the soft brake lines so I thought I might begin to tackle the hard lines. My brother is coming into town this weekend and I was also thinking I might make use of that and pop in the engine and transmission. Can anyone think of a good reason to wait on that? It seems like it would be easier to have the engine in when figuring out how to route hard lines. Also, here is my latest timelapse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEKEZjxXXgg

  7. #47
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Where did you end up mounting the reservoir for Forte's hydraulic clutch?

    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    5. With the wilwood pedal box I installed Mike Forte's excellent hydraulic clutch kit so I have 3 separate reservoirs for the fluid ... I insulated the lines from the reservoirs to the front foot box wall for added heat protection; and,

    Carl

  8. #48
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    I mounted it with the reservoirs for the two brake master cylinders.



    From Right to Left: Clutch, Front, Rear

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  9. #49
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lahrs37 View Post
    My brother is coming into town this weekend and I was also thinking I might make use of that and pop in the engine and transmission. Can anyone think of a good reason to wait on that?
    If you haven't done any wiring yet, you may find that running and securing any chassis wiring harness's in the tranny tunnel area, will be much more difficult with the tranny and engine in place. You may need to drill and rivet, harness support clips, etc.. Likewise installing e-brake cables, and handle. Not impossible, just a little more difficult.

    The hard lines themselves shouldn't be a problem with the engine/tranny in place, as they are normally run down the outside of the main frame tubes. There may be the odd tight spot where holding an electric drill, or perhaps a riveter in a certain position, may be an issue depending how you run your front brake, and clutch hard lines, in the engine compartment, and front footbox area.

  10. #50
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input guys! While my brother was over we ended up doing the hard lines and laying out the wiring harness. I haven't secured the harness yet as I am not exactly sure how it will end up being routed. I feel like there is a slight chicken and egg problem - I want to put the engine in to route the wires right, but putting the engine in will make it hard to route the engine! lol
    On another note I am struggling with my parking brake. I have the 2015 IRS rear brakes, but so snagged a handle from a '93 per the suggestion of the build school. The problem is that pulling the handle all the way up doesn't seem to fully engage the rear brakes. I thought maybe I needed to fill the regular brake lines first so I went ahead and did that. But I am still having the same problem. Any ideas?

  11. #51
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    I have the 2015 IRS but used the stock handle so not sure if this is applicable. I found that the cable adjustment point between not fully engaging and fully engaging was very minimal. I was able to adjust the cable clevis to put enough extra pressure on the cable to get full engagement. Do you have any adjustability there that would allow you to pull the cable just a little bit more?
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
    PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides

  12. #52
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    hmm, no there doesn't seem to be any adjustability. How did you route your cables?

    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    I have the 2015 IRS but used the stock handle so not sure if this is applicable. I found that the cable adjustment point between not fully engaging and fully engaging was very minimal. I was able to adjust the cable clevis to put enough extra pressure on the cable to get full engagement. Do you have any adjustability there that would allow you to pull the cable just a little bit more?

  13. #53
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lahrs37 View Post
    hmm, no there doesn't seem to be any adjustability. How did you route your cables?
    I routed them over the frame instead of under it. EdwardB's build thread does a great job of documenting how he did it and I followed that. I recommend you check that out.
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
    PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides

  14. #54
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Not familiar with the 93 e-brake handle. Is that the type that has the self adjusting ratchet? Pages 16,17,18 of the following link make mention of a modification.
    http://performanceparts.ford.com/dow...htM-2300-K.pdf

    Some calipers have a self-adjuster for the e-brake. Once you have pressure to the caliper, and you pump the brakes, and use the e-brake a few times, the self adjuster should set the pads so they will contact the rotor. That is allowing that the caliper piston was adjusted correctly when first installed. IE; so the pads are almost contacting the rotor, to begin with. The self adjuster won't adjust much at a time, so if the pad is set to far from the rotor, it may take a lot pulling on the e-brake handle, and pumping the brakes, to make up the slack.

  15. #55
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    There is also a modification, using a small bolt/screw rather than spot welding the pawl to the tooth. I believe this was documented quite well on the FFCars forum on one thread. Might be worth doing a search on it if your a forum member there
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by AC Bill; 10-26-2016 at 01:08 PM.

  16. #56
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    I routed them over the frame instead of under it. EdwardB's build thread does a great job of documenting how he did it and I followed that. I recommend you check that out.
    Thanks for the insight, I will definitely take a gander at that!

  17. #57
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bill View Post
    There is also a modification, using a small bolt/screw rather than spot welding the pawl to the tooth. I believe this was documented quite well on the FFCars forum on one thread. Might be worth doing a search on it if your a forum member there
    Huh, that is really interesting too. I am not sure if there is a self adjuster for the parking brakes for the 2015 IRS setup...I am going to do a bunch of research and based on what y'all have suggested then I will report back as to what I have figured out.

  18. #58
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Oh, one other thing! My brake pedal arm is contacting the 3/4 tube when it is fully released - any idea as to how to fix that. At first I thought i might just put some padding in between the pedal arm and the tube - but I have also read that some people put spacers up at the master cylinders. Any thoughts on that? - Y'all are absolute lifesavers! I have no idea how I would get through this without your input!

  19. #59
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    I had some extra time this morning because of the SEPTA strike so I took a quick video! https://youtu.be/ZPrPSC5Hcjo

  20. #60
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lahrs37 View Post
    Oh, one other thing! My brake pedal arm is contacting the 3/4 tube when it is fully released - any idea as to how to fix that. At first I thought i might just put some padding in between the pedal arm and the tube - but I have also read that some people put spacers up at the master cylinders. Any thoughts on that? - Y'all are absolute lifesavers! I have no idea how I would get through this without your input!
    Adjust the clevis at the master cylinder pushrod so it stops before the arm hits the 3/4 inch tube. The master cylinder has a stop built into it. You want it always returning to that point. Not held away by the 3/4 inch tube, padding, etc.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  21. #61
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Adjust the clevis at the master cylinder pushrod so it stops before the arm hits the 3/4 inch tube. The master cylinder has a stop built into it. You want it always returning to that point. Not held away by the 3/4 inch tube, padding, etc.
    That makes a lot of sense. I will check again to see if I can make a further adjustment there. To be perfectly candid, I initially did not have the brake clevises close enough to the balancer and I think that was throwing things off. I then fought with it a bit and jacked up the threads of the master cylinder pushrods. It was one of those things where I should have walked away a lot sooner than I did! lol

  22. #62
    Straversi's Avatar
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    Nice,
    I won't do a time lapse because it would show how much time I sit idle, trying to figure out what I'm doing.
    -Steve

  23. #63
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straversi View Post
    Nice,
    I won't do a time lapse because it would show how much time I sit idle, trying to figure out what I'm doing.
    -Steve
    Ha! That is the beauty of time lapse - it makes you look like you are going way faster than you are. Just wait until I get to wiring...

  24. #64
    Member Kpt112's Avatar
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    Hey lahrs37,

    I live in Bucks County and work in Philly. Please let me know if you need a hand anytime during your build. I had another forum member help me during my first start. Keep up the good work. My car is off to paint right now. I started in March 2015. PM me if you are interested in any help.

    Thanks
    Kevin
    Last edited by Kpt112; 11-01-2016 at 10:28 PM.

  25. #65
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Thanks Kevin!
    I will hit you up in the near future if for no other reason to talk shop and drink some beers.
    -Laurence

    Quote Originally Posted by Kpt112 View Post
    Hey lahrs37,

    I live in Bucks County and work in Philly. Please let me know if you need a hand anytime during your build. I had another forum member help me during my first start. Keep up the good work. My car is off to paint right now. I started in March 2015. PM me if you are interested in any help.

    Thanks
    Kevin

  26. #66
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    I had some unexpected free time today, so I popped the engine in. It was surprisingly easy and I did it myself in about an hour! I really want to post pictures from my phone, an Android, but cannot figure it out. After I entered my 30's I lost my ability to figure out computers.

  27. #67
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    I had some unexpected free time today, so I popped the engine in. It was surprisingly easy and I did it myself in about an hour! I really want to post pictures from my phone, an Android, but cannot figure it out. After I entered my 30's I lost my ability to figure out computers.

  28. #68
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Quick video update: https://youtu.be/7_wJ3EEgPGk
    As it turns out I did end up finding the hardware for the intake, but don't have the bolts for the starter.
    Does anyone have a recommendation for how to connect the hard fuel lines to the fuel rail? It looks like I might get a first start by Christmas at this rate - which would be the best present ever!

  29. #69
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Ok, I am being driven absolutely crazy trying to figure out how to connect the hard lines that come in the kit to the stock foxbody fuel rail. Is there a simple solution? Ideally one that doesn't involve AN fittings and multiple adapters?

  30. #70
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    OK, I settled on using 06AN lines for both. Breeze has adapters off the hard lines, and summit has Russell fittings that comes off the rail. So, no I just need to find the appropriate 06AN lengths and get 4 females fittings. Fun, fun.

  31. #71
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    With the engine in, I was starting to get excited about possibly having a first start and then Go-Kart by Christmas. I am starting to reevaluate that timeline a bit due to a few complications and a couple of set backs. The first is my ongoing fight with the fuel lines. An awesome mechanic friend of mine from my hometown is actually mailing me the proper tools to deal with the braided AN lines and the fittings. I am also waiting for lines that I have ordered to show up. I measured it out and it looks like the 25' I ordered should be more than enough.
    The next complications is reassembling the engine. I am finding that I am really loathe to reuse old sensors, tubes, etc. However, this means that I actually have to identify them as they come up and then go and get them. This basically means almost constant trips to the parts store - which is an hour round trip and can really burn my groove after work.
    Another setback is my brakes. I messed up the threads on one of my master cylinders and the fitting coming out of the fluid reservoir. It's not that big of a deal, but I basically have to redo the system and I haven't been particularly inspired to do that.
    On a positive note, I have started to assemble the deep trunk mod. I cut out the bracing in the back. I know that might be controversial, but my goal with this car is to road trip around the country and I will need that space. I also doing the front mount battery mod. I went to install that, but apparently I need different tools to tap threads. lol back to the parts store.
    Oh, and I snapped the head off of a valve cover bolt - tried for hours to extract it to no avail. I will have to learn how to tap a new one.
    Last edited by lahrs37; 12-01-2016 at 09:26 AM.

  32. #72
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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  33. #73
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Quick update on front mount battery and fuel lines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLhvsuLbYrk

  34. #74
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    So here is some more stupidity and a list of things to do before the first start. I was attempting to install the ground wire from the engine block to the frame for the front mount battery and my tap just was not up to the task. Once I realized this I should have just stopped. I KNOW that nothing good would come from trying to force something and yet... Anyways now there is an extra hole and the ground is riveted onto the frame as opposed to be screwed on. I have a feeling that I will eventually get better tap and redo this. Yuck for hackery.
    Anyways, here is what is left to do before firing the engine for the first time:
    I need to get a spade connector for the battery positive cable to connect it to the solenoid - this does not come in the front mount battery kit.
    I still need to replace one of the brake master cylinders, the fitting off the reservoir and I want to rerun the front brake line so it traces the X-member. This is not absolutely necessary for a first start but needs to be done so a first go-kart can follow a first start. (This might be more for me than anything else.)


    Everything for the hydraulic clutch.
    The heater core - the old tubes were junk so I waiting on a replacement.
    Radiator/fan etc.
    Accessories and drive belt kit. The kit I am getting from LMR is back ordered.
    o2 sensor bungs still need to be welded onto the BBK headers.
    Dash board and guages - my father in law might be doing a wooden dash...
    Replacement oil pan - really everything from the engine appears to be junk except the block
    The throttle body and the various hoses
    Throttle cable
    Engine oil, trans oil, diff oil
    Gas!

  35. #75
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    So last night I started fiddling with my brakes again. I replaced the copper fitting from the reservoir that I had messed up earlier that was leaking, and a master cylinder that I had messed up the threads. With the help of the good folks of this community I determined that I needed to trim the push rods coming out of the master cylinders by about 1/2" to prevent the pedal from resting against the 3/4 tube in the foot well when the brake was not being depressed. I also rerouted the hard lines that connect the front brakes because of interference with the front mount battery. I now have the hard lines tracing the X member, which looks a lot better.
    The next step is to reroute the brake hard line that was originally going through the foot box to the rear brakes. The line as I ran it initially goes right behind the throttle pedal, and I am just not that comfortable with it. I am going to reroute it to the outside of the foot box.
    I am not going to go into the 2 copper fittings I broke, or how long it took me to realize I broke one...
    I have a bunch of goodies on the way this week including my coolant crossover tube to run my heater core, replacement oil pan, all the engine sensors including a PCV valve, and an EGR delete spacer with hardware.
    I am running a trick flow intake and I found an amazing youtube video of a guy explaining how to route the hoses on it compared to the old one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zuD...OH_rOQ&index=1
    Seriously, this made my life soooo much easier considering I got my engine from a junk yard and not directly out of a car.

  36. #76
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Im loving reading your thread. I need you to get some pictures going though! haha
    I ran my rear brake line down the inside corner of the footbox. Really cant even tell it is there but I would like to see some pictures of how you reroute it. That sounds like a good idea also.
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
    PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides

  37. #77
    Member Kpt112's Avatar
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    Bummer on the fuel lines. I used the special service from Summit Racing to make custom AN lines for my fuel line setup (hard fuel line to the Regulator then to the carbruator). A bit more expensive but worth it considering some guys have burned their cars up with leaky fuel lines in the engine bay. Summit offer custom length sizes with whatevers fitting you want. They are professionally done and looks it as well.

    Good Luck
    Last edited by Kpt112; 12-09-2016 at 10:17 AM.

  38. #78
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    Im loving reading your thread. I need you to get some pictures going though! haha
    I ran my rear brake line down the inside corner of the footbox. Really cant even tell it is there but I would like to see some pictures of how you reroute it. That sounds like a good idea also.
    I know I suck with pictures! Lol I keep trying, but all of my pictures are in the Google cloud and I don't use a traditional laptop. One of these days I will have to figure that out. In the meantime I will keep posting videos. 😋 And I will definitely have an update after I redo the brake line.

  39. #79
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kpt112 View Post
    Bummer on the fuel lines. I used the special service from Summit Racing to make custom AN lines for my fuel line setup (hard rule line to the Regulator then to the carbruator). A bit more expensive but worth it considering some guys have burned their cars up with leaky fuel lines in the engine bay. Summit offer custom length sizes with whatevers fitting you want. They are professionally done and look it as well.

    Good Luck
    That is actually good to know! For what its worth I ended up solving my fuel line issues by just running 6AN braided lines for everything. My buddy who is a mechanic leant me some awesome tools that made attaching the AN fittings a breeze.
    As far as the brake lines are concerned...Well the best I can say is that it is best done. And it will be right. Finally. Lol

  40. #80
    Senior Member lahrs37's Avatar
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    I was just rereadingmy earlier posts and it is hilarious to think how nervous I was, and what has shifted from my original plans. I have bought a lot of stuff, I didn't even know about a year ago (Clecos!)
    It's also fun to reflect on how much I have learned. Heck I had never used a rivet gun, or a sawzall, or an angle grinder. Crazy!
    Sometimes I feel like I am speeding towards the end, and while that is awesome, sometimes I want to just try and savor this. It is so dang cool!
    OK, enough sentimentality for one night. Back to the garage!

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