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Thread: Wbat type of fuel to Run

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    Wbat type of fuel to Run

    Curious how many of you have a set up to run E85, what your set up is, and what the advantages are?

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    Senior Member Pearldrummer7's Avatar
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    Running 93 for simplicity but a lot of Subarus run corn. It's a lot better for power, as far as I understand. No where to get it around me though
    Frank - Build thread

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    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    You should look on IWSTI and NASIOC for answers.
    E85 requires 30% more volume of fuel, so stock fuel pumps frequently need upgrading; sometimes larger lines are required.
    Here's a taste of info on what happens/what's needed. If it were readily available I would run it. I would think the upgrades would not really be worth the trouble if you're not going to make much power.

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    I've been running e85 since 2008 on all of my Subarus. It's awesome, especially for the price per gallon given the octane rating. My last fill up was $1.28/gal.

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    Pretty much all the answers you need above on E85 - but I will add that it is safer/easier on the engine. Not just due to the higher octane rating but it runs much, much cooler and you have fewer risks of detonation because of that as well as the previously mentioned octane rating. A lot of guys get away with running 400-500whp on stock pistons and a stock bottom end if they run E85.

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    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Pretty much all the answers you need above on E85 - but I will add that it is safer/easier on the engine. Not just due to the higher octane rating but it runs much, much cooler and you have fewer risks of detonation because of that as well as the previously mentioned octane rating. A lot of guys get away with running 400-500whp on stock pistons and a stock bottom end if they run E85.
    When you say "a lot of guys get away with..." I wonder how accurate that is or perhaps more like "how long did they get away with it?"
    The implications of making 500 WHP is boost at 26 to 27 PSI and at the upper power range the fuel lines can't keep up.
    I did 373 WHP at 21.6 PSI and 93 octane. That was all my tuner was willing to do for a stock block track car. It popped the ringlands soon after when oil got into the intake. Basically, I think most builders and tuners agree that stock motor heads will not stay down if you go over low twenties of boost.
    If you look at EFI Logic's (where I've always gone and who has a great reputation) comprehensive dyno database and enter "Subaru E85", and sort by WHP - high to low, you will see that for tunes above 400 WHP most engines are built motors and above 450 virtually all are to some degree.
    On my first replacement motor I did the usual forged pistons and ARP studs on a new, factory shortblock. That engine was tuned by the late Chris Schoen-Kiewert for 24 PSI (on 100 octane) yet saw an occasional 26+ PSI when the wastegate of the Blouch 2.5XTR turbo was sticking. Ran awesomely then, BTW, but I'm convinced it wouldn't have for long. That engine had 70+ track only hours on it before I burnt two valves; probably because the Walbro 255's capacity started to wane after five years of use.
    So, I believe that, without the proper mods, pushing a stock motor above 20 PSI is a recipe for disaster, regardless of fuel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    When you say "a lot of guys get away with..." I wonder how accurate that is or perhaps more like "how long did they get away with it?"
    The implications of making 500 WHP is boost at 26 to 27 PSI and at the upper power range the fuel lines can't keep up.
    I did 373 WHP at 21.6 PSI and 93 octane. That was all my tuner was willing to do for a stock block track car. It popped the ringlands soon after when oil got into the intake. Basically, I think most builders and tuners agree that stock motor heads will not stay down if you go over low twenties of boost.
    If you look at EFI Logic's (where I've always gone and who has a great reputation) comprehensive dyno database and enter "Subaru E85", and sort by WHP - high to low, you will see that for tunes above 400 WHP most engines are built motors and above 450 virtually all are to some degree.
    On my first replacement motor I did the usual forged pistons and ARP studs on a new, factory shortblock. That engine was tuned by the late Chris Schoen-Kiewert for 24 PSI (on 100 octane) yet saw an occasional 26+ PSI when the wastegate of the Blouch 2.5XTR turbo was sticking. Ran awesomely then, BTW, but I'm convinced it wouldn't have for long. That engine had 70+ track only hours on it before I burnt two valves; probably because the Walbro 255's capacity started to wane after five years of use.
    So, I believe that, without the proper mods, pushing a stock motor above 20 PSI is a recipe for disaster, regardless of fuel.
    If you're tracking the car or going for longevity, then the consensus in the Subaru world seems to be that you build the motor for anything over 400WHP, regardless of fuel. It's sort of an arbitrary number since WHP isn't telling you the whole story when it comes to the stresses the motor is subjected to. Either way, it gives to a target of when reliability is probably being significantly compromised.

    I know many people personally who have gotten away with stock internals pushed well above that limit for tens of thousands of miles.

    With respect to the 818 (specifically NOT comparing to 3000+lb all wheel drive Subarus) there is very limited data. I believe that with proper oiling (dry sump) and adequate cooling of all systems (oil, water, air) the lower weight of the 818 could possibly allow stock motors to last longer at higher power levels. Totally conjecture. My stock block is seeing 27 PSI, 3000+ miles, but no track abuse. Just street abuse.

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