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Thread: TexasAviator #9196 DYNO RESULTS ARE IN

  1. #161
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Impressive Number To Say The Least!

    You'll Have Plenty Of Power!

  2. #162
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Chris, If you'll post all of your engine specs I'd be glad to model your build in my software. I was within 10 HP of Brandon's engine before we dyno'd it.

    Bob
    Thanks Bob, here is the updated specifics:

    347 with 10:1 compression & traditional multi-point EFI, Comp Cams roller rocker arms, roller Elgin #E1836P Cam (Adv. Duration: 286/289, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC)), Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads w/60 cc combustion chamber, 2.02 SS polished intake & 1.60 exhaust valves, 1.45 diameter valve springs w/7 degree locks, fuel rail & regulator running currently at 39 PSI, Edelbrock Performer RPM II upper & lower EFI intake, 30 pound injectors, 70 mm throttle body & Pro-M Racing 80 mm MAF, Pro-M Racing EFI tuneable computer, wide band innovate MTX-L O2 digital gauge sensors (both sides of the motor I've tuned to almost ideal AFR).

    Let me know if you need anything more/thanks again sir!

    Chris
    Last edited by cgundermann; 12-08-2017 at 04:24 PM. Reason: Updated Engine Information

  3. #163
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Awesome numbers! Congrats man...your car is going to be a screamer!
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by cgundermann View Post
    Thanks Bob, I'm currently out of state (home Thursday) - but, here is the specifics off the top of my head:

    347 with 10:1 compression & traditional multi-point EFI, roller rocker arms, roller mid range cam; low end torque (would have to get home and check the specs exactly for the cam), Edelbrock aluminum heads w/60 cc combustion chamber, 2.02 SS polished intake & 1.60 exhaust valves, 1.45 diameter valve springs w/7 degree locks, fuel rail & regulator running currently at 39 PSI, Edelbrock Performer RPM II upper & lower EFI intake, 30 pound injectors & Pro-M Racing 80 mm throttle body, Pro-M Racing EFI tuneable computer, wide band innovate MTX-L O2 digital gauge sensors (both sides of the motor I've tuned to almost ideal AFR).

    Let me know if you need anything more/thanks again sir!

    Chris

    Chris
    Need to know the cam specs (or part number), which Edelbrock cylinder head?
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  5. #165
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Need to know the cam specs (or part number), which Edelbrock cylinder head?
    Okie Dokie - I'll shoot those to you Thursday when I'm back in town.

    Thanks again Bob,

    Chris

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Need to know the cam specs (or part number), which Edelbrock cylinder head?
    Quote Originally Posted by cgundermann View Post
    Okie Dokie - I'll shoot those to you Thursday when I'm back in town.

    Thanks again Bob,

    Chris
    Cant wait to see what you come up with CG and bobl. Please share when you all work that out.
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    Impressive Number To Say The Least!

    You'll Have Plenty Of Power!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yama-Bro View Post
    Awesome numbers! Congrats man...your car is going to be a screamer!
    GoDad and Yama,

    Thank you both. I cant wait to get it in the car. I think its time to bolt the transmission, bellhousing, clutch, and engine together. I think the install party is going down this weekend.
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    Congrats on those dyno numbers . . . well done my friend, well done. And the best part is, you did it yourself, without any help from a "Pro builder". Also, I applaud your tube bending skills, you are a master at detail from what I can see in your pictures - great work.

    Keep it going and you'll soon be on the road, doin' those [we were at] 70 mph "blasts" (before you know it). That is where the "learning curve" come into play. Your car, like bobl's, will be a monster and will deserve ALL your respect at all times. Close to 500 HP in a 2100# car is pure adrenaline in it's strongest form . . .

    Again, congratulations!!

    Doc
    Thank you for the compliments. I am humbled at this stage of the build. Its been great and I have had a ton of help from so many. I hope I can pay it forward for someone else.

    Again, thanks.
    Brandon
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  9. #169
    Senior Member KDubU's Avatar
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    Those are some great numbers. It definitely will be fun to drive, congrats!
    Kyle

    Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017.

  10. #170
    Brandon, I really enjoyed your visit. Wish we would have had more time. My throat was soar from talking so much. Thanks for talking to my grandson about the Air Force. Hopefully he took something away from that conversation that helps him down the road.

    Bob
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by KDubU View Post
    Those are some great numbers. It definitely will be fun to drive, congrats!
    Thx

    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Brandon, I really enjoyed your visit. Wish we would have had more time. My throat was soar from talking so much. Thanks for talking to my grandson about the Air Force. Hopefully he took something away from that conversation that helps him down the road.

    Bob
    Appreciate you willingness to reach out to me and help. I saw the 383 Chevy motor you dynoed and saw it made 400 horsepower. So I feel your dyno is very accurate and not overly generous. So happy the engine performed so well. I hope the load we put on the engine was sufficient to test against detonation. We won't know until it's in the car on pump gas.
    Last edited by TexasAviator; 12-05-2017 at 11:10 PM.
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  12. #172
    Engine first start video


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOwWbuCQlj0



    Tuning the motor to the target AFR. After running the motor a few times it did this on its own with the self tuning software.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4AvOGBX_do


    Tuning the motors spark advance. We used 32 and saw a loss in power and increase in torque to the tune of +10tq -10hp per 2 degrees.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKEodh0Vfjc
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  13. #173
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgundermann View Post
    Thanks Bob, here is the updated specifics:

    347 with 10:1 compression & traditional multi-point EFI, Comp Cams roller rocker arms, roller Elgin #E1836P Cam (Adv. Duration: 286/289, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC)), Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads w/60 cc combustion chamber, 2.02 SS polished intake & 1.60 exhaust valves, 1.45 diameter valve springs w/7 degree locks, fuel rail & regulator running currently at 39 PSI, Edelbrock Performer RPM II upper & lower EFI intake, 30 pound injectors, 70 mm throttle body & Pro-M Racing 80 mm MAF, Pro-M Racing EFI tuneable computer, wide band innovate MTX-L O2 digital gauge sensors (both sides of the motor I've tuned to almost ideal AFR).

    Let me know if you need anything more/thanks again sir!

    Chris
    Updated above/thanks Bob!

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by cgundermann View Post
    Updated above/thanks Bob!
    I did a very similar build for user seagull81 earlier this year, so I have a pretty good baseline comparison. His made 440 HP with AFR 185 heads and a comp 282HR cam. He was using the Holley Systemax intake system. I don't know if your intake system is better or worse than his. Substituting your heads, cam and compression I come up with 421 HP at 5700 rpm, 434 ft. lbs. of torque at 4500 rpm. The unknown is the intake you are using. He also had a 70mm throttle body, but not using a MAF since he was using a Megasquirt speed density ECU. I can say that his intake/throttle body system was quite restrictive and was choking the engine above 5500 rpm. With a free flowing intake his engine should have peaked HP at 6200+ rpm, but it quit gaining power at 5500, staying flat until 6000 and then falling off. FYI, these dyno numbers are with all accessories and mufflers in place, so they are a bit more conservative than some dyno tests you read about.

    Bob
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  15. #175
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Thanks Bob, the engine builder claims 450 horse & mine should breath better then their dynoed test mule. Appreciate your time!

    Thanks again, Chris

  16. #176
    Sorry to hijack your thread Brandon. Post some more stuff...
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  17. #177
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    He won’t mind, he’s still on cloud nine from his dyno pull!

    Chris

  18. #178
    C.g. your cam is almost identical to mine!!!

    It's going to be a great motor! Post here anytime.
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  19. #179
    Elgin #E1836P
    Adverised 286/289, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

    Trickflow 51403002
    Adverised 286/294, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

    Somebody copied the other guys cam. Lol
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  20. #180
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Elgin #E1836P
    Adverised 286/289, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

    Trickflow 51403002
    Adverised 286/294, Duration @ .050" : 224/232, Lift: .542/.563, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

    Somebody copied the other guys cam. Lol
    Well, I love Trickflow products...wasn't familiar with Elgin, but they are darn close...

    Thanks Brandon,

    Chris

  21. #181


    Not a waxer
    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    Somebody copied the other guys cam.
    My Trick Flow camshaft arrived with a Crane Cams camcard. You do the math...

    Jeff

  22. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    My Trick Flow camshaft arrived with a Crane Cams camcard. You do the math...

    Jeff
    My trickflow cam came with its own card last year when I started my engine build. They all come from the same grinder some where. I wonder who got to that spec first. I found a forum that was using the TFS 2 in 2001.
    Last edited by TexasAviator; 12-09-2017 at 09:37 AM.
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  23. #183
    Very interesting read. http://www.elgincams.com/history.html
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  24. #184
    There can be a huge difference between cams that appear to have the same specs. That's why it's wise to buy a proven cam that you know will get the results you want, or have a professional design a custom grind for you. You generally only see advertised duration which may not even be measured the same from different companies, and .050 duration which is a more consistent way to compare cams. What you don't know is how aggressive the lobe is. One cam may have much more duration at higher lifts than another of the same specs, thus making much more power. I know it's pretty easy to just copy the lobe of another cam. A lot of companies do that. I once had a cam I really liked in an MG race car that broke. I took a stock cam and the pieces to a company in Dallas and they reground that cam using the pieces as a profile.

    Bob
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  25. #185
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Yes, very good read...

    Feel better about mine, but - to Bob's point, interesting to see what a dyno would show.

    Chris
    Last edited by cgundermann; 12-09-2017 at 03:10 PM.

  26. #186
    A bit more camshaft trivia. Comp Cams measures their cams at .006 lift to determine advertised duration. Crane, TFS and many others use a measurement taken at .004 lift. So, you cannot compare these cams directly. The specs for the TFS cam would be approximately 278/286 if measured the same way Comp measures their cams.
    Bob
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  27. #187
    Brandon, just discovered the TFS stage 2 cam is actually a Crane grind, HR-224/339-2S-12.
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  28. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Brandon, just discovered the TFS stage 2 cam is actually a Crane grind, HR-224/339-2S-12.
    Thanks. The tfs cam is half the price of the crane version. Great cams btw.
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

  29. #189
    Phase 1 of the engine install is happening this week. I have to pick up some bolts, apparently the flywheel bolts I have are a bit different than stock. I will pick up some grade 8 unless you all have a better recommendation. I also need some flange bolts for the bell housing to the block. I love Fastenal, they are nearby and cant wait to run by there tomorrow. I installed the flywheel with fresh ford crank to flywheel bolts and used some red loctite. Torqued to 70 ft lbs then finished them of at 85 ft lbs.

    I cleaned the the flywheel surface to remove any residual dirt and packing grease. I then moved onto the transmission. I installed the bell housing with stock Ford flange bolts. I packed the pilot bearing with high temp red grease in the engine. Installed the pivot bolt, throwout bearing, and the fork. Checked it for play on the brand new input shaft and the bearing retainer.

    I know many of you use brand new parts but I have not in some cases. If I can... I rebuild them, refresh them, clean them, or replace them when necessary. My entire drive train install consists of new and refreshed parts. They are checked and rechecked for form and function. I adhere to a built not bought policy on many parts.

    New parts installed:
    Ford heavy duty fork
    Ford Pivot bolt
    Throwout bearing
    Pilot bearing
    Rebuilt T5 with T5Z gear set, cobra bearing pack input shaft conversion, electronic speedo, carbon fiber blocker rings/syncro, 5 speed and reverse stop blocks gets rid of grinding gears, smooth top case cover, 2000 mustang rear housing with electronic tone ring conversion, and much more
    King Cobra Korea made clutch kit
    sfi rpm billet flywheel 28oz
    all flywheel bolts
    trans to block bolts

    Used parts
    Bell housing
    Fox PRO 5.0 billet, center sprung, short shifter
    bell housing bolts
    dust shield

    All said and done I have about 1000 into my t5z, 200 in my clutch kit, everything was pulled from my foxbody with about 5500 into my engine after the fox partout. Or about 7000 into my entire 475 horsepower drivetrain. Building, reparing, refreshing, and replacing only necessary parts got me into a very healthy drivetrain for very little cash.




    20171211_214832 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


    20171211_214406 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


    20171211_214753 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr


    20171211_214332 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr
    Last edited by TexasAviator; Yesterday at 11:57 PM.
    F5R9196 Hand Built 347-475hp SBF FiTech Go EFI 4 T5Z-2.95 8.8LSD-3.73 3-link 13"-2300K PB
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen

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