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Thread: #9196 475hp 347 MK4 Roadster Build (Insurance and Plates)

  1. #81
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stack View Post
    Tech Tip: Do not close up the driver side foot box until almost last. Be sure to go kart and test all the wiring as it is easier to access with the outside and top panels off. You may find you want to adjust the clutch or brake pedals. Also be sure that the throttle pedal gets you full throttle on the fitech.

    stack
    Thanks Stack,

    I will definately take your advice on that one. I was in the box today and completely disassembled it to install some more parts that came in. I think I am going to pull the parts and paint them to give them all a freshening before final assembly. I found today that the stock mustang pedal is piece of garbage and I will be buying either the FFR pedal or the Russ Thompson pedal. The stocker just cant be saved or made to feel solid and safe. As well as where I want it on the foot box.

    Brandon

  2. #82
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    LMR sent me a bunch of Ford Motorsports parts today. Literally showed up just a day after I ordered them. They are about 4 hours away from me.

    I picked up a thermostat, filter, chrome dipstick, flywheel bolts, assorted bolts, brake switch, brake switch wiring harness, and distributor hold down all from Ford or Motorcraft. The other parts are from LMR, such as the mini high torque starter, thermostat housing, and pedals. All told only 285 bucks spent and will have mostly everything I need to assemble the engine, transmission, and turn it over to check cylinder pressures.



    Last edited by TexasAviator; 11-02-2017 at 09:25 PM.

  3. #83
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    The chrome dipstick has Ford Motorsport embossed in it. Pretty cool.


  4. #84
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Didnt have a lot of time this weekend to work on the MK4. I found myself shopping and getting somethings done around the house. My daughter wanted a queen bed and she has been sleeping in her room on her small bed for some time. So I rewarded her with the queen and we also use that bedroom for guests so the queen made since in her room.

    The few things I did get done today are as follows. I fit the headers to the engine and checked clearance for the dipstick. The Ford Motorsports dipstick had to have a bit of the edge shaved off where it goes into the block so that it would fit properly. Between the blue engine enamel and the chrome it probably added a few hundredths to the dip stick hole and didn't allow it to fit. So I just hit it a few times with the angle grinder and a flap wheel. I then mounted it up as it would sit in the block and checked clearances. It seems to fit great even with my girdle inside the oil pan. Very glad I didn't have to pull the pan for that.





    Got a little more of the rivets installed, so I am making good progress there. I plan to go back and clean all the aluminum and remove the wording on ever surface as well as primer and paint them before final assembly.



    I used sheet metal screws and fit the rest of the interior panels. The tunnel wont get riveted until the engine/trans install and probably after the go cart phase, but its going to gether and the edges are pretty tight. I also JL audio C2 front and rear speakers for the car. Not sure how effective they will be but I want to go ahead and mock up the install.


  5. #85
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Thanks Stack,

    I will definately take your advice on that one. I was in the box today and completely disassembled it to install some more parts that came in. I think I am going to pull the parts and paint them to give them all a freshening before final assembly. I found today that the stock mustang pedal is piece of garbage and I will be buying either the FFR pedal or the Russ Thompson pedal. The stocker just cant be saved or made to feel solid and safe. As well as where I want it on the foot box.

    Brandon
    I really like Russ Thompson's gas pedal. Works well enough with the stock throttle cable; just make sure you fab a full throttle stop. Easy enough - there is a hole in the framework which you can place an adjustable bolt and rubber stop...

    Chris

  6. #86
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tip CG. I read that in another thread. I need to get a few things from Russ and I may have to buy quite a few parts from him.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Looking good. You are making good progress.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  8. #88
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Yama, I was going to dyno the engine but I am itching to assemble it and the trans and just get it into the car. Hoping to have all that done this month.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Yeah, It's pretty easy to decide not to do a step so that you can get just a little farther. I know I've skipped a couple minor things.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  10. #90
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yama-Bro View Post
    Yeah, It's pretty easy to decide not to do a step so that you can get just a little farther. I know I've skipped a couple minor things.
    I feel like since this is a budget build, the money spent on the gas for the truck, the dyno, getting the stuff setup, etc would be better spent on the car itself. I am going to pass on the dyno for now and get the car on a local chassis dyno later.

  11. #91
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    I pulled my oil pan, did a second check on my oiling setup after a thread on here got me thinking. I built my engine a year ago and its been on the stand because of a deployment and the ensuing time it takes to be full time military, dad, etc. Anyway, it got me thinking about clearances, oil pickup and the pan.

    Here are my findings. The pan is stock but aftermarket from americanmuscle.com the pickup is about 1.5-2 inches from the bottom of the pan or about a quart of oil to get it to the tube. That leaves about 4 above the tube, in the block and additional quart in the filter. I can get six quarts and the oil will stay in the rear of the sump of the pan under acceleration. The only person to state they had an issue was running a front sump, which would dry the front sump pan under acceleration and cornering. I have a hard time seeing the need for the larger pan for a mainly cruise, driver type car. I am very satisfied and happy with all clearances, sealing and the pan being above the frame rails. Its hard for me to not like this setup. It looks so stealthy. A 289-302 looking block with 475hp on tap.

    Here is the engine upsidedown with the pan off to the background of the picture, you can see where the oil pickup and sump will sit. Very nice little pickup location and its stock except for me bending it with a rubber hammer in a few different places to get it flush and to line it up with the arp main cap bolts for a secure pickup tube/girdle combo.
    Last edited by TexasAviator; 04-12-2018 at 07:09 PM.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    I pulled my oil pan, did a second check on my oiling setup after a thread on here got me thinking.
    Perfect - glad we (all) got to talking about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    the pickup is about 1.5-2 inches from the bottom of the pan or about a quart of oil to get it to the tube.
    I can't speak to that pan specifically, but I think that is "WAY" too high (big time).


    Melling says 3/8" to 1/2" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ZDWjPvDiA

    Canton says 5/16" to 3/8" here (SBF specific, but they use a different design of pickup):https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ries_Tech.html

    I say 1/4" to 5/16"" (with more of a Canton design pickup) illustrated here:https://www.cjponyparts.com/media/ca.../o/p/opp13.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    The only person to state they had an issue was running a front sump, which would dry the front sump pan under acceleration and cornering.
    I had trouble autocrossing a rear sump pan - the trouble shows up on the gauge with pressure dropping below 20 psi in corners / heavy braking (on video). Sticky tires / experienced autocrosser.

    The first place it shows up on bearings / journals is rod bearings for cylinders 4+8 (last place on crank to oil). If the rod journal / bearings for 4 + 8 are good, everything else is "probably" ok (or caused by a different problem).



    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    I have a hard time seeing the need for the larger pan for a mainly cruise, driver type car.
    I agree - but knowing what your limitations are and what (exactly) to watch for can be very helpful.

    At least it gives you more details to consider while you're thinking about it

  13. #93
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Thank you for the informative writeup on oil pans. I may have to take another look at this. Do you have recommendations for a pan and pickup combo for a reasonable cost?

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    I think in the short term - you'll be fine if you modify your pickup (or buy a pickup) that gets you down to 3/8" - 7/16" off the bottom of the pan.

    So long as you bear in mind you can't thrash it around like a race car in that condition - you know what to watch for.


    Reasonable cost recommendations (for later)...

    What's it cost to fix rod journals / Clevite bearings / etc?


    I have the Kevko RR pan and pickup listed here: https://kevkoracing.com/collections/...pan-302-engine

    I'll bet it's very similar to the Canton RR pan here (except the Kevko is 7.5" deep and rear sump, barely stays above my frame rails, maybe 1/4" - Mk4 351w): https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ion&key=15-680

    Breeze has this one that uses the stock pickup (which one???), but I'm not a fan of the "hump" pans, and it doesn't appear to have RR baffles (but some baffles are probably better than "none"): http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=892



    Additionally, now I also run an Accusump (probably don't bother unless you plumb it "right" - $): https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ion&key=24-006

  15. #95
    bobl's Avatar
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    If you are up for a short drive, I have a dyno at my house and would be happy to dyno test it for you as a thank you for your service. I live about 40 miles west of Austin.

    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    I feel like since this is a budget build, the money spent on the gas for the truck, the dyno, getting the stuff setup, etc would be better spent on the car itself. I am going to pass on the dyno for now and get the car on a local chassis dyno later.
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Holley HP ECU, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 4.10 gears, A/C, PS, PB Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  16. #96
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    If you are up for a short drive, I have a dyno at my house and would be happy to dyno test it for you as a thank you for your service. I live about 40 miles west of Austin.

    Bob
    oh my word yes. Thank you. Pm me. I'm about 4 hrs northwest of austin.

  17. #97
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    the pickup is about 1.5-2 inches from the bottom of the pan or about a quart of oil to get it to the tube.
    I'll chime in here and agree with the others. This is to far from the bottom of the pan. I've designed a few pickup tubes here at work and our rule is .25" to .38". All of the ones I've done are for Chevys (BBC, SBC and LS), but I wouldn't think Fords would be any different.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  18. #98
    bobl's Avatar
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    Sent you PM. I've got some 4-4 collectors I've been modifying that I should be able to make work on the dyno with your headers. Just have to figure out an efi fuel pump setup to work with your FITech, since your pump is in the tank. Oh I just remembered I have an engine sitting here that I can borrow the pump from. So, come on down!

    Bob
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Holley HP ECU, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 4.10 gears, A/C, PS, PB Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  19. #99
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Just getting into this thread about your build and I'm liking what I've read so far.

    One thing that caught my eye was way back at post #62. From the pictures originally posted, it looks like your upper control arms are mounted up-side-down (in relation to the upper cross shaft pivots) AND all the bolts are installed from the bottom. In the [rare] event that a lock nut would ever come loose, in this instance, the bolt would drop out of its respective hole, causing the upper arm to come apart . . . read: NOT GOOD!
    My suggestion is to re-install all the upper arm bolts from the top with the NyLok on the bottom. Call me anal but it's a simple fix for something that may never be an issue . . . but lets me sleep at night, and at any speed above 20 mph.

    I thank you for your service . . .

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  20. #100
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    oh my word yes. Thank you. Pm me. I'm about 4 hrs northwest of austin.
    Way cool!

  21. #101
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    I think in the short term - you'll be fine if you modify your pickup (or buy a pickup) that gets you down to 3/8" - 7/16" off the bottom of the pan.

    So long as you bear in mind you can't thrash it around like a race car in that condition - you know what to watch for.


    Reasonable cost recommendations (for later)...

    What's it cost to fix rod journals / Clevite bearings / etc?


    I have the Kevko RR pan and pickup listed here: https://kevkoracing.com/collections/...pan-302-engine

    I'll bet it's very similar to the Canton RR pan here (except the Kevko is 7.5" deep and rear sump, barely stays above my frame rails, maybe 1/4" - Mk4 351w): https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ion&key=15-680

    Breeze has this one that uses the stock pickup (which one???), but I'm not a fan of the "hump" pans, and it doesn't appear to have RR baffles (but some baffles are probably better than "none"): http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=892



    Additionally, now I also run an Accusump (probably don't bother unless you plumb it "right" - $): https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ion&key=24-006
    I think you rr pan is the best setup for the price that I have found. I did some research and there are many options but the kevko stuff seems to have it all and is at a great price. Did it come with the pickup or do I have to add that to the cost?


    Quote Originally Posted by Yama-Bro View Post
    I'll chime in here and agree with the others. This is to far from the bottom of the pan. I've designed a few pickup tubes here at work and our rule is .25" to .38". All of the ones I've done are for Chevys (BBC, SBC and LS), but I wouldn't think Fords would be any different.
    Yeah I agree I dont feel comfortable to really pull corners or enjoy the car if I am worried about the oiling. I will have to get rid of the stock pan to be sure of its capability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    Just getting into this thread about your build and I'm liking what I've read so far.

    One thing that caught my eye was way back at post #62. From the pictures originally posted, it looks like your upper control arms are mounted up-side-down (in relation to the upper cross shaft pivots) AND all the bolts are installed from the bottom. In the [rare] event that a lock nut would ever come loose, in this instance, the bolt would drop out of its respective hole, causing the upper arm to come apart . . . read: NOT GOOD!
    My suggestion is to re-install all the upper arm bolts from the top with the NyLok on the bottom. Call me anal but it's a simple fix for something that may never be an issue . . . but lets me sleep at night, and at any speed above 20 mph.

    I thank you for your service . . .

    Doc
    Thanks for checking in on the build. I did change the bolts to the top and have since cleaned up the front suspension with paint, proper bolt placement and steering geometry dialed in well enough for go cart phase. I will try and get some updates to that soon on my build thread. Thanks for checking in and I am glad to serve. I love our country in spite of its social misgivings.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgundermann View Post
    Way cool!
    I know right.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    I think you rr pan is the best setup for the price that I have found. I did some research and there are many options but the kevko stuff seems to have it all and is at a great price. Did it come with the pickup or do I have to add that to the cost?
    Ok, step back - take a deep breath.

    The rest of my advice:

    The engine has not yet been run?

    You "ought to" break that engine in "gently" for 500 - 800 miles.

    You "ought to" break the operator / driver in "gently" for "a couple of years" - It's a "very unforgiving" piece of equipment.


    You shouldn't "need" a RR pan for a while.


    Just trying to keep you on budget, and out of trouble...

    Much easier to spread out the expense, especially when you're trying to stay on budget.


    Yes, the pickup is extra $.

  23. #103
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Just went thru a couple of your videos on YouTube, great idea to "document" everything in a video format - sure makes it easy to go back and "see" what you did later if you question yourself (and we all do).
    One thing I am concerned about is the oil pump housing to main/girdle bolt clearance. The video looks like you ground off just enough to make the pump housing sit on the bolt but without any pressure pressing on it. That's a god thing but, things get really HOT in a crankcase during operation and expand, sometimes more then we all think it should expand. And since the normal oil temp for a small block FORD should run about 200° - 220° F. then there is going to be expansion at that junction. I [personally] would run a gasket between the block and pump to give you about .020" more clearance at that point of contact. Last thing you want is stress put on the oil pump housing in an engine that has built-in harmonics and vibrations.

    Just my 2¢

    On another note, oil pump pickup to bottom of oil pan should be held to .250" - .375". Farther away and she'll starve on [hard] corners, lower and she'll starve all the time as the pump tries to suck the pan upward.

    The little things you do now will keep the "issues" from cropping up later on. 15 years on the road with my MKII . . .

    Just here to help . . .

    Doc
    Last edited by Big Blocker; 11-08-2017 at 10:42 PM.
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  24. #104
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    Just went thru a couple of your videos on YouTube, great idea to "document" everything in a video format - sure makes it easy to go back and "see" what you did later if you question yourself (and we all do).
    One thing I am concerned about is the oil pump housing to main/girdle bolt clearance. The video looks like you ground off just enough to make the pump housing sit on the bolt but without any pressure pressing on it. That's a god thing but, things get really HOT in a crankcase during operation and expand, sometimes more then we all think it should expand. And since the normal oil temp for a small block FORD should run about 200° - 220° F. then there is going to be expansion at that junction. I [personally] would run a gasket between the block and pump to give you about .020" more clearance at that point of contact. Last thing you want is stress put on the oil pump housing in an engine that has built-in harmonics and vibrations.

    Just my 2¢

    The little things you do now will keep the "issues" from cropping up later on. 15 years on the road with my MKII . . .

    Just here to help . . .

    Doc
    Thanks Doc,

    The thing about my vids and posts, and this is probably true for everyone, but I took a little more off that pump later on. Its well clear. I also fixed the things that you had recommended for the suspension as well. I just need to be better at going back and covering the things I have hit once or twice. I hate doing things twice but I will if I don't have complete confidence in that part of the build.

  25. #105
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    Ok, step back - take a deep breath.
    The rest of my advice:
    The engine has not yet been run?
    You "ought to" break that engine in "gently" for 500 - 800 miles.
    You "ought to" break the operator / driver in "gently" for "a couple of years" - It's a "very unforgiving" piece of equipment.
    You shouldn't "need" a RR pan for a while.
    Just trying to keep you on budget, and out of trouble...
    Much easier to spread out the expense, especially when you're trying to stay on budget.
    Yes, the pickup is extra $.
    Will do mike, thanks for the advice.

  26. #106
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Quote: "You "ought to" break the operator / driver in "gently" for "a couple of years" - It's a "very unforgiving" piece of equipment."

    Truer words have never been closer to the truth then anything else said about a Cobra . . .

    They require a concentrated learning curve. Light weight, excessive power, short wheel base, an extremely stiff chassis and lightning quick steering will only add to the "excitement" if not controlled by that guy hanging on by the steering wheel with white knuckles the first time you mash the pedal to the floor just to see what it will do - problem is, it'll do it faster then you realize and it's all down hill from there.

    Take the first few hundred miles with ease and full awareness. NEVER, NEVER say; "Watch this . . ."
    These cars will bite you every time you disrespect its potential / capabilities.

    Now get er done and get out there and enjoy the ride . . .

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  27. #107
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    I think in the short term - you'll be fine if you modify your pickup (or buy a pickup) that gets you down to 3/8" - 7/16" off the bottom of the pan.
    So long as you bear in mind you can't thrash it around like a race car in that condition - you know what to watch for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yama-Bro View Post
    I'll chime in here and agree with the others. This is to far from the bottom of the pan. I've designed a few pickup tubes here at work and our rule is .25" to .38". All of the ones I've done are for Chevys (BBC, SBC and LS), but I wouldn't think Fords would be any different.
    Got some smart people here and I heeded your advice. After beating the tube and heating it up as I went along I came out with 5/16 taking into account the pan gasket. When I stick an allen wrench in the oil drain and adjust for some thickness of the pan and the threaded insert I come up with a little more but its hard to tell with it being off to the side. I have to say I am very happy with it now and will feel at peace knowing its getting oil from as low as I could make the tube and still not restrict flow with the additional bends. Torqued the main cap bolts one last time to 75 ft lbs just for good measure and sealed it back up.

  28. #108
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    Quote: "You "ought to" break the operator / driver in "gently" for "a couple of years" - It's a "very unforgiving" piece of equipment."

    Truer words have never been closer to the truth then anything else said about a Cobra . . .

    They require a concentrated learning curve. Light weight, excessive power, short wheel base, an extremely stiff chassis and lightning quick steering will only add to the "excitement" if not controlled by that guy hanging on by the steering wheel with white knuckles the first time you mash the pedal to the floor just to see what it will do - problem is, it'll do it faster then you realize and it's all down hill from there.

    Take the first few hundred miles with ease and full awareness. NEVER, NEVER say; "Watch this . . ."
    These cars will bite you every time you disrespect its potential / capabilities.

    Now get er done and get out there and enjoy the ride . . .

    Doc
    Appreciate you and Mike very much. I will be careful with the car. I am working with bobl and called him today. He did some software modeling of my engine and parts and was excited to tell me that I should hit my 450hp even with the small cam I am running. The thing is I chose the cam so I can keep the revs around 6000 and be very street friendly. I could probably pick up another 20 or 30 hp but as you all stated this thing is already going to be a handful, might as well detune it a bit and get some vacuum back for my power brakes.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post

    problem is, it'll do it faster then you realize and it's all down hill from there.
    Another hard truth - these cars make things happen really, really quick.


    I reviewed the build thread briefly - I presume you can rev limit with your EFI setup???

    Because you're going to need a rev limiter (stuff happens really quick)...

  30. #110
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Got some smart people here and I heeded your advice. After beating the tube and heating it up as I went along I came out with 5/16 taking into account the pan gasket. When I stick an allen wrench in the oil drain and adjust for some thickness of the pan and the threaded insert I come up with a little more but its hard to tell with it being off to the side. I have to say I am very happy with it now and will feel at peace knowing its getting oil from as low as I could make the tube and still not restrict flow with the additional bends. Torqued the main cap bolts one last time to 75 ft lbs just for good measure and sealed it back up.
    It sounds like you are getting it figured out, but for future reference; an easy way to measure the distance from the pickup to the pan floor is to place a piece of clay on the pickup tube then install the pan and squish the clay in the process. Then take the pan off and measure the thickness of the squished clay and you'll have you distance between the pickup tube and the floor of the pan.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  31. #111
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    That's what I did to get the 5/16 measurement but it was off here and there due to the stamped style of the pan. I used the clay I had on hand from checking the ptv clearances.

  32. #112
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Finally got my manifold back from the machine shop and buttoned up the top end. In these two videos.

    https://youtu.be/TUdE0do1xJU

    https://youtu.be/u_WmnPTnC18
    Last edited by TexasAviator; 11-11-2017 at 10:40 PM.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    Finally got my manifold back from the machine shop and buttoned up the top end. In these two videos.
    Watched the videos.


    I really hope you already knew the difference between FelPro 1250 (never ever use) and 1250-S3 (much sturdier steel laminate) gaskets.


    From a brief google image search for blown FelPro 1250 gaskets:


    engine factory intake.JPG

    images (1).jpg

    P1010748.jpg

    P1010749.jpg

    photobucket-1929-1310690306606.jpg

  34. #114
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike223 View Post
    Watched the videos.


    I really hope you already knew the difference between FelPro 1250 (never ever use) and 1250-S3 (much sturdier steel laminate) gaskets.


    From a brief google image search for blown FelPro 1250 gaskets:


    engine factory intake.JPG

    images (1).jpg

    P1010748.jpg

    P1010749.jpg

    photobucket-1929-1310690306606.jpg
    I did do a lot of homework on this and in some of those cases they did not remove the restrictions with an exacto knife or use engine sealant to hold the gasket. This can happen for many reasons and I have used these before on intake swaps with no issues on my 5.0 bronco. You need to be very careful when installing gaskets and know that your machining and tolerances are correct to get good, square clamping to the head and intake manifold. A steel gasket will still have a leak if the aforementioned reasons aren't adhered to.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    A steel gasket will still have a leak if the aforementioned reasons aren't adhered to.

    Agreed - I blew a 1250 after about 3 years - it had been trimmed and sealed and re-torqued.

    It was a mixed bag - since the resulting teardown revealed I was going to have to get serious about oil control (RR oil pan, etc).

    The online wisdom at that time was that the 1250s get soft and start moving around - a number of people had been having the same sorts of failures.


    Another thing I remember reading was that the 1250-S3 gaskets were specified to FelPro by Ford Motorsport.

    I can not confirm that, but I can observe that FMS M-9439-A50 intake gaskets (made by FelPro) pretty strongly resemble FelPro 1250-S3, and both are steel laminate construction.


    Anyway - I'm glad you'd already researched it, mostly just wanted to get it out there for anyone who hadn't heard or thought about it.

  36. #116
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    I have to say it's good to think about and keep an eye on. Sure enough, this could be a problem but ask engine builders what they use. I think if you are blowing forced induction or nitrous into a block it would need attention for sure. We don't know the causes of these failures, but I am always willing to revisit these things. I know how to build an engine so it doest bother me to take it apart. If you have the type that buys crate engines, they may find this kind of failure detrimental to their build, that is if they are afraid to work on an engine.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post

    I know how to build an engine so it doest bother me to take it apart. If you have the type that buys crate engines, they may find this kind of failure detrimental to their build

    Perfect - we're on the same page.

    I actually look for things to learn / observe / do better - on teardown / build / operation.


    The first time I put mine together, I could say I did the internals of every piece, except the rear end + transmission.

    I have since made it a point to go through the transmission + build the rear end myself (and the engine, again, twice, lol).


    Not bought - built.

  38. #118
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Exactly Mike, I also don't want to sound haughty or cocky, as I have paid the price in the past but hey you have to pay to play. Good luck to anyone building a motor. It's not for the faint of heart.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yama-Bro View Post
    It sounds like you are getting it figured out, but for future reference; an easy way to measure the distance from the pickup to the pan floor is to place a piece of clay on the pickup tube then install the pan and squish the clay in the process. Then take the pan off and measure the thickness of the squished clay and you'll have you distance between the pickup tube and the floor of the pan.
    The way we do it on the SBC in the dirt car is to grab a handful of different size hex nuts. Start with a 1/2" hex nut laying flat on the pickup and
    place the pan and gasket on and it should fail to seat against the pan rail. It should wobble a bit because it's resting on the nut. Drop down one
    size at a time on the hex nuts until the pan just starts to lay tight against the gasket and pan rail. Take that nut out and measure for thickness,
    subtract a 1/16" for gasket crush and you know the final clearance from the pan. Everyone has a few spare nuts laying around and you don't
    have to worry about keeping a batch of clay from drying out before the next use. KISS principal at it's best.
    Dale Berry

  40. #120
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Great advice myjones

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