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Thread: Gen 3 FFR#48 Type 65 Coupe R Build

  1. #81
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    John, where did the rod end IRS LCAs and UCAs come from? I have modified fronts myself but wasn't aware they were available for the new IRS. Dang I need an upgrade already and my MkII retro-install IRS is only 6 weeks old. BTW what gear oil did you use in the IRS diff in your roadster? Mine has a lot of driveline slop noise and it's a 315 w/ standard ford tracLoc. I swapped to 80-140 oil yesterday as a test but rain keeps me in the garage.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  2. #82
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    Not an option
    We made them
    Ford racing diff 373 gears came with the oil in it
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  3. #83
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Day 4 - half a day as I have to drive back home.

    We installed fuel cell, riveted some aluminum, made rear trunk floor access panel for the fuel cell access/service, put the body back on, put wheels on, measured the cars weight with me in it, and a bunch of stuff still missing. ITS A ROLLER!! we rolled it off the lift and put it in storage till next weekend (Jan 13-16)




    fuelcell access panel in trunk. We need to service and get inside cell, its this big to make things easier in the future. We will have a plate to cover the opening.




    you can see the rear needs wheel spacers!! I need to run 245/40/17 for my class, the kit was designed around 335" wheels! time for some wheel spacers




    Mark even fit!! he doesn't fit in the seat itself, but we took that out and he has room in there with a different seat for sure. He being huge has to modify the stock seat anyway..
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  4. #84
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    What a great way to start off 2017, building a new car!!! Mark, Brendan, Wanda, and Matty Dougherty, I can't thank you all enough for the hospitality, and putting up with my coupe build! We accomplished what we set out to do, have a rolling chassis at the end of 3.5 days! we did it! and had a blast.

    The Factory Five's type65 Coupe kit is spectacular! No issues whatsoever! We had a couple of people stop by during the build and everyone that saw it was super impressed with the frame. Dave Smith's idea of painting the R frame white is AWESOME! I cant get over how great the frame looks.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  5. #85
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    John-

    Congratulations on a great start and accomplishing so much in a short period of time!

    The car looks awesome, and I agree with you on the frame; white looks terrific.

    I am looking forward to your next weekend of work. You all do somie great work! Thanks for allowing us in to watch your progress!

    I hope your race season is even more successful than your build progress!!

    Regards,

    Steve

  6. #86
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    When I watched the Live Stream (very cool, thanks!) you had problems with the tranny and headers not fitting. How did you resolve those?
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  7. #87
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    When I watched the Live Stream (very cool, thanks!) you had problems with the tranny and headers not fitting. How did you resolve those?
    My transmission is a super old Tremec 3550, mid-shift, which for the coupe as it puts the shifter in the wrong location. I have 2 of them (one as a spare.) The rear shift position on my 3550 has only one placement, rear rear mounting, where on a newer TKO transmission, the rear shifter position is symmetric and can be rear front mounting, or rear rear mounting location. I will pick up a TKO600RR from Mike Forte next Wednesday and that will solve everything. After all TKO500/600 is the transmission FFR designed the kit for.

    If anyone is looking for a used Tremec 3550 fresh rebuild from Hanlon Transmissions with the carbon syncros and such, I have two of them on sale for a good price

    As for the exhaust, I am trying to reuse the side exhaust from the Challenge car as I know it works with this engine, its been run before and tuned for this exhaust to make the power necessary for my class rules and more importantly I know the dB level on how loud the exhaust is for those tracks like Limerock, Palmer, etc that have specified dB sound limit. We will probably look at it a lot closer next weekend to see if we can get it to work. If not, we will use the FFR coupe exhaust that comes with the kit

    Please note these 2 things are not issues. They are me trying to re-use parts I already have, which were in the old Challenge car a.k.a "the parts car". If you were to build this from scratch you'd purchase a TKO600 and use the coupe side exhaust that comes with the kit.
    Last edited by johngeorge; 01-04-2017 at 03:16 PM. Reason: spelling...
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  8. #88
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Mark took some pics outside







    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  9. #89
    Ol Skool
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    John,

    This is absolutely awesome that you and Mark, Brendan, Wanda, and Matty Dougherty are sharing your time with us. This is a great build to watch coming together. Looking forward to the continued progress.
    Is there stadium seating available in Marks garage?
    Thanks for sharing the live feeds too!

  10. #90
    Senior Member John Dol's Avatar
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    Very cool progress John. Thanks for sharing on you tube.
    I agree on the white frame, it's awesome.
    Mark is the man, can't go wrong there.

    John
    Finished the "My Coupe, my way" project.

    http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae46/jdcoupe1969/
    Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Sniper EFI
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  11. #91
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    OK.. Brendan measured the NAPA starter Part# RAY 2449317 and it is 5 7/8" long instead of 7 1/4" long for the one I had before. The starter change will fix clearance issues to motor mount.

    the funny part is the 2015+ starter looks exactly like the napa part

    NAPA


    2015-2017 Ford
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  12. #92
    Member kabacj's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting all the details and part numbers John. It will make it much easier for us to quickly build up a type R to come out and race with you.
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    build start date June 19 2023

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  13. #93

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    John,Sent you a PM

  14. #94
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Great progress John. Are those the wheels and tires you have to run in the series you race in? Those rears could be 4 inches wider.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  15. #95
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    Great progress John. Are those the wheels and tires you have to run in the series you race in? Those rears could be 4 inches wider.
    have to run 245" or smaller tires for NASA ST2. We will get hub-centric wheel spacers to fix that issue.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  16. #96

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by johngeorge View Post
    have to run 245" or smaller tires for NASA ST2. We will get hub-centric wheel spacers to fix that issue.
    What about a different set of wheels with a better offset?

    While hub-centric spacers will do the trick for a street car; however, I've seen many your racing videos and would have concerns about using them at the speeds you drive.

    Also, at what speed did your Challenge Car become unstable that caused you to add the Mega Wing & Super Low Splitter?

  17. #97
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    Thanks fun watching your Build John.

  18. #98
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    What about a different set of wheels with a better offset?

    While hub-centric spacers will do the trick for a street car; however, I've seen many your racing videos and would have concerns about using them at the speeds you drive.

    Also, at what speed did your Challenge Car become unstable that caused you to add the Mega Wing & Super Low Splitter?
    Challenge car was never unstable. The aero was to get more grip in the turns.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  19. #99

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Good To Know & Thanks!

    With 5th gear (.75) and 6th gear (.49) being over drives, getting to break neck speeds will possible even with 3.73's out back.

    Hope to have some fun at NOLA Motorsports Park (Open Track Days / Not Racing) once it is completed.

  20. #100
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    OK all, sped up 34 hours of video down to 36 minutes enjoy! Narrated by Mark and Wanda.



    and

    Coupe build weekend #1 recap
    Last edited by johngeorge; 01-06-2017 at 08:39 PM.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  21. #101
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    John
    You rock that video is increadible
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  22. #102
    Senior Member John Dol's Avatar
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    Nice recap, looking forward to 13-16th!

    John
    Finished the "My Coupe, my way" project.

    http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae46/jdcoupe1969/
    Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Sniper EFI
    First start Sept. 18 2013 First go kart Sept 19 2013

  23. #103
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johngeorge View Post
    have to run 245" or smaller tires for NASA ST2. We will get hub-centric wheel spacers to fix that issue.
    Just to clarify for folks thinking about racing this car: You can run any size tire/wheel you want. There is a HP/WT penalty depending on the type of tire (Racing Slicks vs DOT approved) and tire width.

    NASA ST/TT Car Classification Form 2017 (v11.1/14.1)

    If:
    Tire size 245 or smaller (DOT approved), add 0.7
    Tire size 275 to 250 (DOT approved), add 0.3
    Tire size 9.5” (241mm) or smaller (non-DOT approved), add 0.7
    Tire size 10.5” (267mm) to 9.6” (244mm) (non-DOT approved), add 0.3

    If:
    Non-DOT approved tires (ST1/TT1, ST2/TT2, ST3/TT3 only), subtract 0.5

    ST4/TT4 Only: DOT-approved R-compound Autocross tires, subtract 1.0
    (Examples: A6, A7, R1S, RS AC, Z214-C90/91)

    If you want to run 315 Hoosier R7's on the back you would not add or subtract from the calculation. JohnGeorge gets to add 0.7 by running 245's. It's up to the builder/racer to decide if the additional traction of wide tires is worth the HP/WT penalty.

    Trying to figure out all the possible combinations on paper wil drive you insane. Thankfully NASA has provided a spreadsheet to help with running all the hypotheticals: https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...r_2016_v1.xlsx

    The calculator hasn't been updated with the 2017 changes.

    Here's the 2017 Rules. https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...--12-27-16.pdf
    Note the FF Type 65 is subject to special rules on pages 11 and 12.

    Here's the 2017 form: https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...--12-27-16.pdf
    Last edited by Sgt.Gator; 01-07-2017 at 03:45 PM.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  24. #104
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    What does "add 0.7" or "subtract 0.5" mean?
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  25. #105
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    What does "add 0.7" or "subtract 0.5" mean?
    NASA ST2 rules start at 8.0:1 weight/power ratio. You add or subtract from that number giving you the 'adjusted weight/power' ratio.
    you can see my math on post#1 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post257718
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  26. #106

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    You guys accomplished in five days what it took me five years to do on my Gen. 2 coupe; keep up the good work!

  27. #107
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Build weekend #2 live video stream starts this Friday Jan 13, 2017 - Monday Jan 16, 2017.

    Weekend goal = go-cart

    link: https://www.youtube.com/user/ffr48/live
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  28. #108
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    What are your initial impressions of the new body? The hood looks like it will be an easy fit. Do you foresee any alignment issues or major tweaking required? Does the now hood require less trimming than previous generations? Thanks and great job on the videos!

  29. #109
    Senior Member R Thomas's Avatar
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    Driveshaft Questions

    Was watching some of the video from yesterday and got to thinking about driveshaft alignment being critical. Could you guys comment on how things differ with IRS and Live axles. From a quick glance it appears you should see almost no movement with IRS so why isn't it just a direct connect?

    Secondly I always heard that there needed to be a small matching angle at both ends for a live axle but it doesn't look like the IRS has any adjustability. So how do you set the proper angles with IRS?

  30. #110
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    Live Stream is active this morning on the build. Youtube ffr48
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  31. #111
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    Initial fit of the body is great.
    they have solved the hood issue. making sure the sides are not to tall.

    you can set the drive shaft angle with the trans mount
    shimming it up or down if needed.
    The traveling Builder
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  32. #112
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    The livestream is cool!

    What is the stand that is being used? It seems the car can be lifted pretty high.

  33. #113
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    The project is looking great, I like the R nose splitter too, looks fantastic!

  34. #114
    Senior Member R Thomas's Avatar
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    He drove it out the door today!

  35. #115
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    I have an atlas mid rise 6000lb. lift.

    We met our goal this weekend.
    we are a total of 7 working days into this build, and having a blast. Incredibly well engineered.
    John Drove the coupe today. I did a short live stream of it. on facebook.
    we will be back at it on the 28th of this month for another 3 1/2 days.

    weekend 3 list will be:
    fit nose
    fit the doors
    and make open and close
    fit inner and outer window nets
    Fab seat mounts
    finish wiring, Racepack, cool suit, defrosters, wipers, aux fuel pump, diff cooler
    transponder,
    Last edited by Mark Dougherty; 01-17-2017 at 01:37 PM.
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  36. #116
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    Saw that drive-out- congrats!

    I'm seriously considering building one- decisions, decisions...motor, R frame or not...It will be for street and HPDE days...

    Thank you for posting all of this- it is and will be an invaluable resource.

    Dave

  37. #117
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    YES!! we drove it out of the garage today!

    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  38. #118

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    Dave,

    If you only plan on street and HPDE, the regular frame is plenty strong. I ran my Gen 1 coupe in HPDE and several other track day events and it did just fine. The Gen 3 street version frame is over 7 times stronger than my old Gen 1. Also, the R version is more challenging to get in and out of, due to the side intrusion bars.

    Garry
    I sure miss my coupe!

    F5R1004503SP 2004 Challenge Car, 331 Stroker

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  39. #119
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Weekend #3 update:

    Drove it! see video above.


    put heat shield on the insides of the footboxes.


    Engine/trans installed, installed headers, then noticed some header bolts were stripped! pulled engine back out and helicoiled bad header bolts


    2015+ starter much smaller and fits perfectly!


    installed Summit heater box (no AC!) in pass top footbox


    driveshaft installed


    figured out dash layout
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  40. #120
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    3" wheel spacers. will get hub centric later.


    wheel spacers installed and looks great




    rear is WIDE!
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

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