The Blasphemy Build

[Mountain-Metalworks]

It looks like it's time for me to start my build thread. I'm starting to seriously get into the build and hope to use this thread to track my own progress, take notes, and hopefully help someone else out who's building after me.

A quick background, I ordered in May during the last 50/50 sale but delayed my build date several times due to an impending 50 mile move for a new job. I ordered a base kit but with the sale I optioned out enough things that it's a hybrid between base and complete. Essentially, I'm building a brand new car with no used parts, but wanted to do several changes that made buying the complete kit a poor proposition.

My order was base kit with the following options:
-Powder-coated frame
-FFR lower control arms
-2015 rear IRS
-Speedhut gauges
-15" Halibrands
-Stainless Exhaust
-Heater
-Chrome Driver and Pass Rollbars
-Front and Rear Sway Bars
-Padded Dash
-Ron Francis Harness
-IRS Center Section and Spindles
-Wilwood Pedal Box
-Odds and Ends(mats, wind wings, visors, etc...)

I'm getting Wilwood brakes from Gordon that fit the 15" wheels, 2.5 turn power steering, seat heaters to augment dash heater(I'm in WI and plan a long driving season), and other miscellaneous things that will come up in the build. Car will be 60-70% street and 30-40% track. I'm within a couple hour drive of Road America, Blackhawk, GingerMan, and Autobahn CC, and plan on getting in many laps. 15" wheels for street, 18's for track use.

If you're wondering why I'm calling it "The Blasphemy Build", it's based on my choice of engines. I'm a huge fan of the GM LS engine platform. Super light, super compact, great aftermarket support, huge power even naturally aspirated, and handles boost even with factory lower end. My friends all said it was blasphemy to put anything but a Ford engine in the car, hence the blasphemy build... Traditionalists will hate my decision but I firmly believe these cars are meant to be built to the owner's preference. I have a great deal of respect for those that try to build an authentic car, it just doesn't fit my build and driving plans. So.... I'm starting with an LS376/525 while I build an LS2 block into a 427. So the car will at least have a 427 engine if I decide to put any 427 badging on the car. The engine will be backed by a LS7 bellhousing/internal throwout bearing, aluminum flywheel, and clutch. Tranny will be a T56Magnum, and rear IRS is 3.55 with a factory limited slip.

I don't plan to highly document my build, there are plenty of good threads out there by people with way may patience than I have for such a thing. If basic parts go on with no issues, I'll skip right over, I only want to note when things don't happen as expected or I'm doing something unique that someone else may want to see. I plan to do some custom fabrication work based on my build plans, with the help of a friend who owns a tool and die shop. I'm also teaching myself CAD/CAM/g-code for doing basic CNC machining and fabricating. It should come in handy during the build.

Delivery went flawlessly except that it was 70 degrees and sunny two days before delivery but snowed before my car showed up. Gotta love Wisconsin weather! Gerry from Stewart was great, we loaded the car onto my chassis dolly, and the whole process was done in very short order. It felt good to send Gerry on his way with a nice tip since he was going to be on the road for Thanksgiving and unable to get home to Arizona.



A detailed inventory was completed right away and I was able to repack things more logically and in easier to access boxes. My back-order list is quite short with no show-stoppers. Major missing items are headlight assemblies, throttle cable(I'll be throttle by wire anyways...), parking brake cables(I'm going line-lock), and a couple other knick-knacks. This biggest issue is I ordered the stainless side pipes but got uncoated. I haven't called FFR yet to talk to Courtney about options. Either get the $300 credit back and keep them or we'll have to give UPS more business. Still not sure which I'd rather do.



More to come...

-TJ

[Jazzman]

You and GoDadGo should get along just fine!! Build what you want. These things are not an investment where we expect to make money on them. They are a demonstration of personal taste and style. You be YOU! Welcome to the insanity. You are going to have a ball.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...My friends all said it was blasphemy to put anything but a Ford engine in the car, hence the blasphemy build...

But it's not a Ford...or Chevy...or Mopar or ??? These are simply Cobra flavored hot rods. Build what YOU like---and have a whole bunch of fun doing it We'll have fun watching you!

Cheers,
Jeff

[GoDadGo]

Welcome To The Factory Five Family!

> Jazzman is 100% right in that I'm a HUGE fan of the LS Platform even though I'm building an old school 383-SBC with a ZF 6-Speed powered MK-4 to keep things simple like my mind.
> Down the road I'd love to do a Type-65 with an LS, but I've got one more kid to get through college and still struggling to finish my MK-4. (Budget Based Problems > Need Carb & Alternator & Brackets)
> Also, folks like Jeff you will find to be supportive and he is one of the Senior Guys That Knows His Stuff so reach out to guys like him if you get stuck.

Good Luck, God's Speed & Hope You Come In Under Budget!

Steve >> aka: GoDadGo


Show below is our Swamp Land Drive Line installation video:

https://youtu.be/3f1Q4aS5SG4

[Jazzman]

Good Luck, God's Speed & Hope You Come In Under Budget!

Steve >> aka: GoDadGo

Hey Dad -

Good Luck to him? Of course. Absolutely.

God's Speed? Indeed. Excellent.

Hope you come in under budget? Come on Dad, get serious!!!!

Jazzman

[Mountain-Metalworks]

Hey Dad -

Good Luck to him? Of course. Absolutely.

God's Speed? Indeed. Excellent.

Hope you come in under budget? Come on Dad, get serious!!!!

Jazzman

I'm very fortunate to be in a position where budget isn't one of my major concerns. I'm a bargain buyer and will wait for the right deals to save every dollar I can, but I only have a loose idea of a budget on this build. Out of many automobile projects I've done, this is the first time I'm ever taking that approach which is nice.

-TJ

[GoDadGo]

Hey Dad -

Good Luck to him? Of course. Absolutely.

God's Speed? Indeed. Excellent.

Hope you come in under budget? Come on Dad, get serious!!!!

Jazzman

Jazzman,,,

Remember that I'm a Wrench Swinging Banker and a one income household for well over 25 years so The Numbers Drive Everything!
So far I'm on target to come in at or around 35-K for the total cost involved for the GoDadGo Chevy Cobra.
That won't be too shabby considering the only used part on my car is the engine block.

Steve

[Lancaster Lad]

This is to let you know you have a friend on the left coast. Mine is also a LS376 but alas only the 480. From my past history
with early muscle cars this will be plenty for me. I also have the 2015 IRS with 15in wheels and will order Mr. Levy's solution
for brakes and his solution for the parking brake.
Looking forward to following your build, you seem off to a good start. When I have more than 1 hour a month to work on my
build I too will start a build post.

I don't know if you have figured out motor mounts. I used FFR 4.6 combined with Dirty Dingo adapters. My only problem is
bending the dipstick to fit around the mount.

Good fun with the build

Cecil

[Mountain-Metalworks]

This is to let you know you have a friend on the left coast. Mine is also a LS376 but alas only the 480. From my past history
with early muscle cars this will be plenty for me. I also have the 2015 IRS with 15in wheels and will order Mr. Levy's solution
for brakes and his solution for the parking brake.
Looking forward to following your build, you seem off to a good start. When I have more than 1 hour a month to work on my
build I too will start a build post.

I don't know if you have figured out motor mounts. I used FFR 4.6 combined with Dirty Dingo adapters. My only problem is
bending the dipstick to fit around the mount.

Good fun with the build

Cecil

Awesome to hear there are at least a few of us non-conventional folks out there!! It sounds like our cars will be quite similar. I'm pretty sure the 525hp version will be way overkill, but after I finish building the LS427 the 376 is going into a '65 Willys Pickup that will be my tow vehicle for the car. So I'll want all I can get from it. I haven't decided on mounts yet. If I purchase, I'll either use the Dirty Dingo mounts or one of these options:
LS Conversion mounts

LS Engine mounts

I might just weld up my own since I have a bunch of materials at home and like the challenge.

My brake package should be here from Gordon this week. It would be nice to work on the brakes this weekend, but I've already got a bunch to do so not a big deal.

-TJ

[Mountain-Metalworks]

​After the car was fully photographed and marked I stripped of all the interior panels. I quickly dug right into the front suspension. My plan with both front and rear is to do a mockup to make sure I everything works, see what changes I want to make, etc... Once satisfied I'll be pulling everything back apart to prep and grease bushings, powder coat spacers, and prepare for final assembly.

Like others have seen and expected as a part of the frame welding process, many/most of my suspension tabs were pinched to close together. The first lower control arm tab I hit with a rubber mallet quickly chipped the powder coating. Idiot... powder coat is durable, but not indestructable. I built a quick tab spreader with 1/2" all-thread, 2 washers, and two nuts.



Works like a dream and although tedious it really is the best way to spread tabs in a controlled manner. After my first newbie mistake chipping the powder coat, I told myself to take my time and think things through better.

My Mevotech upper ball joints were also similar to others. One screwed in extremely tight but seated, the other wasn't going on even after cleaning threads, etc... Since the car will see a decent amount of track time I decided to upgrade to the Howe Racing joints. Overkill and will require slightly more maintenance, but it is a very high quality part. The joints move effortlessly but the tolerances on the inside are so tight that greasing them doesn't let grease spurt out and around the ball joint. This requires you to be more diligent about using the right grease(not just all-purpose) and keeping them lubed. But they are also rebuildable so easy to keep in good shape. Did I mention that they are overkill? The rest of the front went together without issue.

To move too far forward in the rear, I need to POR15 the iron Ford factory diff but it's awfully cold in my WI garage. The diff reads about 49-50 degrees, which should be warm enough but will take extra long to dry. I also noticed that the sleeves for the front diff mounts aren't sized right. They are way too small and sized for a 3/8" bolt, so they don't fit in the poly bushing and are too small for the carrier bolt. Not a big deal but also not something I can easily pickup in the correct size locally. I'll call FFR tomorrow, it's unfortunate since I just received a box with my back-ordered front pedal box panel.

I took my rear spindles to my friend's Tool and Die shop. Instead of hacking the extra tab off with a sawzall then cleaning up the cuts, we mounted them in a fixture and put them on the CNC. No real advantage to doing it this way, just a little cleaner of a process. I then mocked up most of the rear except for the diff and CV axles. Like the front it will get pulled back apart for final prep and install, then brake work and alignment.

-TJ

[Gav]

Hi Jeepurz,
I'm just getting started on my 65 coupe, I have a 416ci LS from my old cobra that will be powering it.

I'm planning on just modifying the Windsor mounts for both the engine and trans, I have bought exhaust flanges for the LS and will be cutting the FFR supplied headers to suit them. I'm not expecting it to be a huge issue.

Looking forward to following your progress

[wareaglescott]

brilliant idea on the spreader! Wish I would have thought of that. Next time I will know!

[Mountain-Metalworks]

Hi Jeepurz,
I'm just getting started on my 65 coupe, I have a 416ci LS from my old cobra that will be powering it.

I'm planning on just modifying the Windsor mounts for both the engine and trans, I have bought exhaust flanges for the LS and will be cutting the FFR supplied headers to suit them. I'm not expecting it to be a huge issue.

Looking forward to following your progress

Hey Gav,
How did you get to 416, start with a 6.2/376 and add a stroker crank but no bore job? Was that engine in an FFR Roadster or other Cobra and did you like the power output? I'm still trying to determine my game plan for the headers.
1) Like you're planning, buy ford headers, an LS flange, then cut and reweld.
2) Buy a custom set of 4 into 1 into 4 headers from GP Headers, etc...
3) Buy a mild steel box 'o' bends and cut fabricate my own.

Option 3 sounds like an interesting project but I'm just not sure I'm going to have the patience or welding skills for it. I can MIG the headers/flange together, but without a TIG I don't know if I want to start from scratch.

-TJ

[Gav]

My 416 was originally built by Shwanke race engines in the US, it's a cast iron 6ltr block bored out with a stroker crank.
I'm from Australia and it used to live in my Aussie built 'classic revival' cobra. It unfortunately the cobra was killed when I put it through a concrete wall early this year while competing. The engine survived and will power my new car.
So after deciding that I wanted another cobra, but wanted a roll cage, I went for a 65 Coupe. I only picked it up a couple of weeks ago from the docks.
The 416 is great, it has a pretty decent cam and was running a Holley dual quad manifold which I loved. Incedently the dual quad manifold has the same carb/throttle body spacing as a 427FE so a dual quad cobra aircleaner bolted on with no modification. The coupe is going to have stack injection and I hope it's as good as the old setup.

image.jpg
As for exhaust, I'm going to see how modifying the FFR extractors go, if need be I'll make a bigger set myself.
It's not hard to do, I made my last ones and side pipes for the cobra.
The trick is to get all your bends together, getting bends that 'nest' into the radius of each other was the hardest part for me.
Once you are ready to go, use 2" masking tape to hold the pipes and bends together as you assemble everything.
Then using a blade cut a 1/2" hole in the tape either side of each join to allow you to tack weld the pipe together.
Once you have them all tacked together either finish them yourself or have a pro complete the welding for you.
It's a great project to make your own pipes, you just need to be patient and be willing to have a go.

[GoDadGo]

3) Buy a mild steel box 'o' bends and cut fabricate my own.

Option 3 sounds like an interesting project but I'm just not sure I'm going to have the patience or welding skills for it. I can MIG the headers/flange together, but without a TIG I don't know if I want to start from scratch.

-TJ

I'm running Schoenfeld IMCA Modified Headers on my SBC, but please know that my engine moved forward quite a bit in order to get the ZF-6 Speed to fit.

If you are moving the motor this far forward, then you may want to check out their Adjustable IMCA Headers that have the slip on collectors since they make them for the LS platform.

You may be able to use their headers as a starting point too.

It Can't Hurt To Look!

[Jethrow]

Hi there.
I just found your thread and wanted to wish you good luck with your build. I also went the LS3 route with my car and I could not be happier, so its a great choice! Good luck with your build

[TomH33]

Hi
I am TomH from the 33 LS build. You mentioned the T56M Trans with 2.97 first. Here are the ratios from Tremic. 2.97 2.10 1.46 1.00 .74 .50 2.90
and 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 .80 .63 2.90. Double check your OD ratios.

I selected the 266 mainly because the overdrive ratio and car weight. I believe you have the 2.66 Trans overdrive listed as the 2.97 trans. I am using 3:50 gears and 26.5 tires and found the 6th to below !800 RPM @65 and that is to high for the 480HP LS3. Just thought you like to know.

Good luck and have fun!

TomH33

[GoDadGo]

The GoDadGO 383 SBC with ZF 6-Speed has the following ratios with 3.73's out back:

1st-2.68
2nd-1.80
3rd-1.29
4th-1.00
5th-0.75
6th-0.49

With two over drives, our 1st through 4th gears really are for drag strip duty while our #5th & #6th are for over the top cruising.
My suggestion it to try to pick your ring and pinion ratio by guesstimating your car's speed at the big in of the quarter mile.
Try to pick a ring and pinion so that your 4th gear is 250-500 RPM's below your intended red line for some wiggle room.
You don't want to be forced to shift 50-100 feet before the end of the quarter mile if at all possible.
I've got a spread sheet that I use for this task, but can't figure out how to upload it to this forum. (Sorry Gang)

Anyway, Good Luck To You LS Guys!

This Video May Help You Guys Guesstimate Your Speed At The End Of The Quarter Mile:

https://youtu.be/V96-AQ1FghI

[myjones]

If you're wondering why I'm calling it "The Blasphemy Build", it's based on my choice of engines. My friends all said it was blasphemy to put anything but a Ford engine in the car, hence the blasphemy build... Traditionalists will hate my decision but I firmly believe these cars are meant to be built to the owner's preference. -TJ[/QUOTE]

You are very right that they are meant to be built the way you want. They aren't quite a Cobra and even Carroll copied most of that from some of the cars he saw at the track, he also didn't just work for Ford so tell your purist friends to give you the 6 figure or more price for a Cobra or wait and see how much better your version performs than the original did.

I didn't play by the rules either, I'm building a FF33Hotrod with a stroked modern Hemi and a (GASP) Automatic transmission which is just the way I like it. Enjoy the build.
DB 7liter 6pack 33HR

[valin]

If you're wondering why I'm calling it "The Blasphemy Build", it's based on my choice of engines. My friends all said it was blasphemy to put anything but a Ford engine in the car, hence the blasphemy build... Traditionalists will hate my decision but I firmly believe these cars are meant to be built to the owner's preference. -TJ

I really like your build. My hat is always off for the guys who do them differently, and make them their own. You're going to love it.

It is always an interesting topic. You mentioned that "traditionalists will hate my decision".... Somehow these "traditionalists" (and there's many out there) somehow find it acceptable to run a 302, or any other Ford based engine in the car. The original cobra did not come with these engines. My question has always been...how is that really different than running a different brand of motor? Also, these are not original cars. I say build it however you want to build it! It's yours! Nobody should give anybody a hard time about powerplant, transmission, rear end, wheels, brake selection, etc. People should have support in building their dream car, no matter what route they decide to go.

I too went with a Chevy powerplant. I was running a 454 BBC last year, but am swapping to a 598 BBC for this summer.

Besides, Carroll Shelby originally contacted Chevrolet for an engine when he was designing the Cobra, and they turned him down because they didn't want a car that would compete against their mighty Corvette.....so he called Ford, and the rest is history. Most people don't know that

[GoDadGo]

Besides, Carroll Shelby originally contacted Chevrolet for an engine when he was designing the Cobra, and they turned him down because they didn't want a car that would compete against their mighty Corvette.....so he called Ford, and the rest is history. Most people don't know that

Amen From The Not So Frozen South!

Stay Warm Up There Brother Valin!

[Mountain-Metalworks]

As mentioned earlier, I didn't plan on making this a well-documented build. I'd only post things that are unique and others may find useful. There are plenty of extremely thorough builds for the routine stuff.

I got in on a $500 discount GM Performance Parts was offering for "Connect and Cruise" packages purchased before Dec 31st. WAY earlier than I needed my motor, but $500 is $500. I got my LS376/525, T56 Magnum, and bellhousing/clutch package delivered after Christmas but before New Years.

tj-pics-2434-picture35649-ls3-delivered.jpg

tj-pics-2434-picture35657-t56m.jpg

I then thought it was a good time to break a couple ribs and lacerate my right lung on New Years...
I don't recommend this to anyone, it hurts. A lot...
My injury left me with lots of time, but no ability to work on things. I received my engine mounts, I decided to buy BRP mounts instead of fab'ing my own since I'm already a little behind on my plans. They look good, the anal person in me wishes some welding flash was cleaned up before powder coating, but not a huge deal. Not something I'm go cleanup and re-powder coat for a non-show car.

tj-pics-2434-picture35665-ls3-engine-mounts.jpg

I've been putting together my Levi-sourced Wilwoods while my ribs are getting better, pretty routine stuff. Doing loctite and safety-wire for the rotor to hat bolts since the car will get track time. Decided the best way to save on garage space was to install the engine in the chassis instead of sitting on a pallet. It would also give me the ability to see how far forward I can move my firewall, where to bring the fuel line to, how much room I have to expand the passenger footbox, etc... I got the motor hoisted off the crate, removed the stock exhaust manifolds, and covered the open ports. I installed the motor mounts and went to slide the cherry picked under the chassis when I hit an issue. I didn't build enough space under the chassis dolly for the picker legs so it's a no-go. I'm going to have to finish all the suspension and make it a roller or get creative jacking up the front of the dolly.

tj-pics-2434-picture35681-ls3-hoist.jpg

At least I got back quite a bit of space, the motor is just going to have to wait to get installed later. I may look at mounting the bellhousing and tranny as well to get an initial fitment, measure for driveshaft, etc...

tj-pics-2434-picture35673-ls3-waiting-install.jpg

I'll post more pics once I get the engine in to show the spacing, alignment, etc... for any potential or curious LS roadster builders.

-TJ

[GoDadGo]

I really think your combo is spot on perfect!

Can't wait to see how it turns out.

PS: I'm back on track and hanging parts so I'm in finally moving forward again.

[Lancaster Lad]

jeepurz

As a fellow LSer I too ordered my connect n cruise before Dec 31. I did it to help with footbox and exhaust mockup.
Also like you 500 is 500.

Not to rain on your parade but you might need to change the oil pan. They seem to all ship with the Cad CTS-V pan.
On a quick install the pan sat about 1 1/2 below the frame. I have purchased a Corvette pan and pickup.
Looking at all combinations of pans it was the smallest and only 1/2 quart smaller at 5 1/2 qts.
I have not reinstalled yet but the pan is about the same height of the filter.

Thank you for the link to other mounts, had to ditch the Dirty Dingo and go with UPR. More room for dipstick.

Cecil

[Mountain-Metalworks]

Not to rain on your parade but you might need to change the oil pan. They seem to all ship with the Cad CTS-V pan.
On a quick install the pan sat about 1 1/2 below the frame. I have purchased a Corvette pan and pickup.
Looking at all combinations of pans it was the smallest and only 1/2 quart smaller at 5 1/2 qts.
I have not reinstalled yet but the pan is about the same height of the filter.

Thank you for the link to other mounts, had to ditch the Dirty Dingo and go with UPR. More room for dipstick.

Cecil

Yeah, my plan all along was to replace the oil pan unfortunately. I need a full competition pan with both baffles and trap-doors to handle road-racing g's. I'm just hoping that the pan they use is a highly sought after piece for other conversions, resto-mod builds, etc... so I can recoup some money. I believe the old LS1 batwing, with aftermarket guts, is a decent option. Supposedly the later LS3 batwing isn't as good? I definitely want as much oil as possible, and will also have a functional oil cooler for even more capacity.

So you tried the Dirty Dingo mounts but they didn't work well? Sorry to hear that, they were an option I looked at, but decided on the BRP since they look exactly like what I wanted to fab up. Have you decided on header options or are you going with reversed manifolds/j-pipes?

-TJ