my poor experience with vcp

[Samiam1017]

so i purchased a complete car harness and haltech ecu from wayne at vcp the price was 2995 complete plug and play. after months ( tons of emails mostly not answered) of trying to get it to work i asked for a refund he said excepted my request. there was parts missing, fusebox mount that i asked for twice and never received. there was loose wires in the harness that i sent him pictures of and asked what to do, no answer. when i asked for a wiring schematic he said it was writen on paper and not in his computer, after countless emails with my fax number and 2 weeks he finally emailed it. when i couldn't get the thing to start and couldn't find the basemap he played the blame game then he finally emailed me it after a few days. his product wasnt what i paid for or or maybe i expect too much from a supported vendor that claims he know what he is doing. if you purchase a product that doesnt work and you return it you expect a full refund. well last night i got an email from paypal not wayne that says he refunded me 2340 his refund less harness repair, ecu testing and shipping. i did cut off my parts right at his butt connectors he feels this was wrong and maybe they belonged to him? im not sure but after all the poor communication and service he provided i wasnt about to have to go buy new plugs to make a harness that actually works. the diagnotic test from haltech was 70 according to joshua at haltech which i dont think i should pay for. and the 6-8 hours worth of damage he claimed i did by cutting off MY ends at his butt connectors doesnt is none nonsense as the ends are mine and not his to keep and resell. sorry for the rant but wayne is completly out of line with what he thinks is an exceptable refund. Do any or you think this is exceptable and would you except this if it happened to you.

[juanfmc]

That's a bummer... I recently joined the Forum and have been bookmarking Supported Vendors as I come across them. I wondered how legit VCP was because several of the links on their site takes you to a jersey store link.
I am really sorry for your experience, but I am grateful you told us about it. I hope your issue gets resolved!

[Samiam1017]

i just got an email from Wayne, stating he would have giving me a full refund if i sent the harness back uncut as he had a harness there to send me the ends from. another example of his poor customer service and communication. Still doesn't make $600+ missing from my refund exceptable.

[ben1272]

That's too bad. It seems like a harness should just plug in and work, as has been the experience of many builders in this forum with other vendor's harnesses. I am surprised that Wayne has not swallowed the loss and given you a full refund. There are usually 2 sides to every story.

To be fair to Wayne it would be good to hear the other side, but I would still suggest he refund you 100% given the business rule 'the customer is always right'.

[RickP]

what a nightmare.

[craigfree]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Wayne, but I've had multiple purchases from him and other than when he couldn't get one of his venders to respond to him... Wayne has always been awesome. He has helped me troubleshoot parts he didn't even sell me. He went as far as sending me a spare throttle body he had laying around to help me troubleshoot my wiring harness that didn't even buy from him.

I'm not saying he didn't do wrong in your case, but I don't want to see everyone turn on Wayne who has in most cases been a tremendous help to numerous people on the forum.

[Canadian818]

To be fair to Wayne it would be good to hear the other side, but I would still suggest he refund you 100% given the business rule 'the customer is always right'.

Hardly a rule anywhere, more like an old saying that doesn't apply to today's customers.

I'd imagine the connectors on the harness you had were not the ones supplied. Wayne probably has a bin of connectors and every so often builds harnesses for a day. Not every connector would have the same pigtail length on it, making it a challenge for him to remake the harness after you cut it up. I can't speak about everything else, but Wayne is typically held in very high regard in the FFR community.

[Samiam1017]

Hardly a rule anywhere, more like an old saying that doesn't apply to today's customers.

I'd imagine the connectors on the harness you had were not the ones supplied. Wayne probably has a bin of connectors and every so often builds harnesses for a day. Not every connector would have the same pigtail length on it, making it a challenge for him to remake the harness after you cut it up. I can't speak about everything else, but Wayne is typically held in very high regard in the FFR community.

i cut my ends off at the butt connectors to make sure both sides had the maximum amount of wire. i sent him connectors foe my year motor that he told me he needed to make my harness if he choice to
use connectors that he had in a box laying around doesnt make a difference in the fact that the connectors were mine and gonna be needed to have another harness made. maybe if he would have used the ones i provided then he would have gotten the harness correct or the wire schematic he sent would have had the correct colors in them. either way it doesnt change the fact that i bought a product that didnt work as promised he realized this and then ripped me off for 650+ dollars.

[FFRSpec72]

Take your refund and make a deal with iWire and be done.

[ben1272]

Take your refund and make a deal with iWire and be done.

Good advice.

[Samiam1017]

Take your refund and make a deal with iWire and be done.

i do plan on that or to a local shop to do it. maybe they will even do it for $650 less and bill wayne for the money he stole from me! just trying to warn others of his business practices before they get ripped off too.

[ben1272]

i do plan on that or to a local shop to do it. maybe they will even do it for $650 less and bill wayne for the money he stole from me! just trying to warn others of his business practices before they get ripped off too.

I have an iWire harness and can tell you that Brian is a pleasure to deal with and the quality of the harness is very good. Importantly, every time I have called I get Brian on the line and/or he has replied very quickly to my emails. He is running a quality operation, and it shows. I also like his constant quest to improve his product.

Good luck with whatever you do.

[wallace18]

Sorry to hear your problems. I have dealt with VCP several times and been very pleased with my dealings with Wayne. I hope it all works out well for you.

[Innkeepr]

Guys, this is my biggest worry. I hate hearing anyone having an issue with our vendors, This being such a (relatively) small community - compared to others that have been around for 30+ years.
I have contacted Wayne about my build, and he always answered emails in a day or two. I have not dealt with Iwire, I dont think they will do what I want - a complete new harness and stand alone unit.
That being said, I hate wiring - its the bane of everything I love about cars. I am on the fence as to ordering a 28 Circuit Painless harness from Summit Racing ( $449 minus 150 off = www.summitracing.com/parts/prf-10202 )
and a MS3pro (1150) and trying to do this myself. As I see it, that is 1450 in parts vs 2200 for the same product. Is the cost of shipping 2 harnesses and labor involved worth the extra cost ? I still have to decide.
Again, Wayne has always been helpful to me, perhaps family or health issues arose: however communication is paramount. I hope you get everything resolved and are satisfied in the end.

Merry Christmas & have a great New Years.
"E"

[mikeinatlanta]

Like everyone else reading this, I have do direct knowledge of this situation. That said: I have known Wayne for many years. He is a man of character and I trust him implicitly. If Wayne has chosen to resolve a dispute with any sort of unilateral action, I would support him without having to hear a single detail. You could not pick a vendor here or anywhere else with more knowledge and integrity.

Those of us who have been around know the questionable vendors. When things go wrong we talk amongst ourselves and share, but also leave it to the forum to police bad vendors. Wayne is never, and I repeat NEVER one of the guys who treats people unfairly, and usually goes way farther to satisfy than most would consider reasonable.

[Mark Dougherty]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
I can tell you though I have been using Wayne ( VCP) as a vendor for years. and recommending to customers also.
Never had a bad experience with him or his services EVER.
He has always gone out of the way to help me out.

[Wayne Presley]

Merry Christmas everyone and as usualthere are two sides to every story. I've been working in the FFRcommunity for nearly 20 years and had nearly zero complaints.
Ron is a difficult customer, probablyone of the most I've ever encountered. He claims lack ofcommunication but I have over 100 emails back and forth. He would notlisten to the instruction that I gave him. The ECU came preloadedwith a tune file, I emailed a copy of it the day he asked for it andyet he scours the internet looking for something different thencomplains about having to do it even though he already had thecorrect file.
http://s213.photobucket.com/user/vcpinjectionpb/media/goof%20off/RM1_zpsziv3kznz.jpg.html][/URL]
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This file was based off a file directlyfrom Haltech's own technical department right after they finishedtuning a single AVCS WRX. I have another car running the same file inanother car so I know it works. This was in July.


He demands a refund BEFORE sending backthe harness and ECU on November 27 not once but twice.
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Ron sent it back and I then found outwhy he wanted me to refund the purchase before sending it back. Heliterally cut the harness apart, removed every connector and 4relays that were not even part of the Subaru harness. The damage tothe harness is going to take 6 hours to repair ($510), 4 relays withsockets ($60) and $20 worth of heat shrink adhesive filledconnectors.
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[Wayne Presley]

Now I suspect that he may have damaged the ECU so I take it to the PRI show and give it to Haltech directly since all of their tech guys were there for the week.

http://s213.photobucket.com/user/vcpinjectionpb/media/goof%20off/20161209_084545_zpsalkqyxea.jpg.html][/URL]


I got the ECU back from Haltech with abill for $75 for bench testing.
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I refunded $2340 on December 23 as requested by PayPal using the friends so he didn't get charged any fees. The refund amount was $2950 less the labor to repair the harness. Ron had plenty of time to tell me that he was planning on cutting off the connectors but he didn't. I had a complete harness to exchange so he would have exactly what he sent me which would have given him a usable harness and a full refund. But he cut apart the harness and did not communicate to me that he intended to do so.

I do not know of any business where you get to purposely damage a product and then demand a full refund.


And his posting of this on Christmas so I would have to spend time away from my family to respond to this is such poor form.

[ben1272]

Now I suspect that he may have damaged the ECU so I take it to the PRI show and give it to Haltech directly since all of their tech guys were there for the week.

http://s213.photobucket.com/user/vcpinjectionpb/media/goof%20off/20161209_084545_zpsalkqyxea.jpg.html][/URL]


I got the ECU back from Haltech with abill for $75 for bench testing.
http://s213.photobucket.com/user/vcpinjectionpb/media/goof%20off/RM91_zpskwntpni6.jpg.html][/URL]


I refunded $2340 on December 23 as requested by PayPal using the friends so he didn't get charged any fees. The refund amount was $2950 less the labor to repair the harness. Ron had plenty of time to tell me that he was planning on cutting off the connectors but he didn't. I had a complete harness to exchange so he would have exactly what he sent me which would have given him a usable harness and a full refund. But he cut apart the harness and did not communicate to me that he intended to do so.

I do not know of any business where you get to purposely damage a product and then demand a full refund.


And his posting of this on Christmas so I would have to spend time away from my family to respond to this is such poor form.

Glad you clarified all of this Wayne. It definitely seems odd that he would cut off the connectors before finding out how you wanted to handle it. That said, it is too bad the harness/ECU did not just plug in and work for him. I too might have been frustrated, but like many things with this project, frustration is part of the game. Sometimes you have to fight through the frustration!

I think given the amount of work you will now have to perform to make the harness usable, your partial refund is reasonable and could even be expected.

-Ben

[Erik W. Treves]

Well... I figure I will jump in before this thread gets locked...it's no secret that Wayne is my best friend and has been since we met back in 2006 and I consider him part of the family which says a lot since I choose who I call friend VERY carefully.

All of that a side, from a customer perspective....There are many companies that provide services where you send them X they modify it Y and return. The time and effort that goes into building a harness is no small task... I have even attempted to "diet" 3 harnesses and each and every time I end up just buying a complete one. I am familiar with Wayne's harness where the customer provides the ends and he mates them to a custom harness.... at the point you provided the ends to him they are part of the harness! If I get my steering wheel adapter modified for turn signal stalk (and you have to provide yours to start) it is now no longer your original part. By cutting the connectors off you have damaged the part. I would have expected that a new stock harness could have been provided to replace the one you hacked up to provide the connectors to wayne in the first place. The complete harness on ebay is about $500...

Just seems silly. I have often tried to "stray" from the path when taking advice from Wayne.... My wife now has a saying for it... we call it "an Erik"... which often requires me spending twice the amount of time and money to do something that would have been done once if I had listened the first time....

Wayne's contribution to the Factory Five community and support as vendor has been excellent and very well documented... do a search on either forum and then you decide. There are always going to be disagreements and different points of view. But I know Wayne to be a person of exceptional character and somebody that goes the extra mile. These type of threads to nothing to support the forum and the community. They only polarize it during a time that we should be spending time with family and being thankful for the things we have.

I am and have been a loyal VCP customer and will only have Wayne tune my cars... he knows his stuff and things have gone perfectly when I listen to his instruction. When they don't... normally, it's my fault or defective parts....

work this off line - both side have spoken - forums rules apply...

Wayne... I need to order some more parts.... give me a shout when you are back at the shop.

Merry Christmas!

[frankc5r]

He obviously does not understand electronics or cpu enough to install the harness and hook
up CPU to test. He got frustrated, then blames it on you. I would have charged more.
He gives same lame excuses when he could have solved the whole thing with a phone
call.

[nkw8181]

Ok so let me put my .02 in since this is a forum. I don't know of anywhere that I could damage a product and then demand a full refund. The fact that he gave a refund at all after the harness is damaged speaks to his attempt to resolve this. The breakdown of communication falls on the customer in this case due to the fact that he should have talked about wanting his connectors back. Just cutting them off and other things as well and then asking for a refund before the vendor receives the product comes across as underhanded and dishonest.

I have done a lot of business with VCP's and have never hand an issue. When I try to contact VCPs if I don't reach him immediately then i hear back from him by the end of the day and at the latest the next day. The fact that you say he is unresponsive isn't supported by what we have seen. If you have evidence to the contrary by all means post it. Wayne has Helped me resolve countless issues on items that he didn't even sell me. On the items that he did sell me, which I have all most everything he sells for the 818, any questions I had he was helpful and quick to respond.

If you have proof of your claims by all means show us otherwise please do not trash a great vendor because you can't follow directions and messed up. Ok I'm off my soap box

[Samiam1017]

im a difficult customer because i purchased a plug and play unit that didnt come with a program loaded and wiring done right? i think the price i paid for the item it should work correctly. i had a local tuner look thru the ecu and finally install the program when he did email me it. still didnt work. asked for wire schematic waited and waited when i finally got it the colors didnt match what he said he did. like i said in the first post he either wired it wrong or he send the wrong year schematic dont know. i called a few local shops that tune halteach nobody wants to fix somebody elses work. or a product not purchased from them. wayne may have had good communication with other customers but he was far from good for me. yes there was 100 s of emails over the course of months mostly me emailing him multiple time waiting for answers to the point it wasnt except able anymore. i can post pics of wire ends too. means absolutely nothing. i can send pictures of my 6in pigtails cut cleanly at the butt connectors. they would mean absolutely nothing either. If i thought i was an expert on ecu and wiring i would have done it myself that why i purchased a plug and play unit from a so called trusted vendor. i dint get what i paid for very simple, end of story you can use wayne at your own risk. my advice is to buy your wheels from him but if you plan on using a standalone ecu then best to source as local as possible.

[UnhipPopano]

The haltech ecus have a CAN Bus Interface. I would have imagined that if Wane sold a Plug and Play harness, that he would have tried it out first. Even if the engine would not start, the harness would have at least supported plugging in an Engine Analyzer. Getting beyond finger pointing, was the harness tested before shipping? Was an Engine analyzer plugged in to see what the problem was?

[Innkeepr]

Well..My wife now has a saying for it... we call it "an Erik"... which often requires me spending twice the amount of time and money to do something that would have been done once if I had listened the first time....!

Our wives must be related, she has said the same thing over the last 20+ years.
Glad I'm not alone ! hehe

[Scargo]

As a business owner for almost 20 years I can attest that there are customers than cannot be satisfied. To even engage in a 100+ email exchange is an arduous and time-consuming task. Trying to help and satisfy someone while they are being accusatory and difficult is not easy, either.
This customer sound like he is not up to the task of installing and working with the components he ordered. It's not a job for everyone. It is by definition, custom. Also, as I understand it, Wayne has done many custom wiring installations on kit cars.

If we look at the overwhelmingly positive comments, and my own positive experience with Wayne (including free advice) I cannot help but question the buyer's complaints about communications. They seem suspiciously one-sided against Wayne given the fact that the customer cut the connectors off without any discussion or thought (other than perhaps anger or revenge).
Who would give a full refund if their product was modified? Most places have a no-return policy for electrical parts. The $75 charged to insure the Haltech was resalable was justified. Most places charge a hefty restocking fee.

[Canadian818]

Any plug n play setup still requires the end user to be tech savvy enough to load a base map. How do you know it was wired wrong? Different years used different colour wires on their connectors, I highly doubt Wayne made up a custom scamatic for each harness he sold depending on which year each connector came from. An ohms meter and connector pinouts could be used to verify if something is hooked up wrong.

[David Hodgkins]

I'm glad the customer has had a chance to air their grievance, and I'm glad the vendor has had a chance to respond. The Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) once both sides have had a chance to state their point of view is to close the thread to prevent a perpetual back and forth and possible de-evolution into a flame war. The thread will not be deleted so that others doing searches in the future get a chance to see information that may aid their search for a vendor or vendor reviews.

My hope is that the vendor and customer get together to resolve their issue but that is not always possible. By allowing both sides to state their point of view it is then left up to those viewing this thread to learn from the experience between the vendor and his customer.