How to build a great 818?

[Hindsight]

I didn't know how to weld until taking up this project. It has been invaluable. Best money I ever spent on a tool.

[turbomacncheese]

I need to learn how to weld....

Flux core wire-feed. Doesn't get any easier, and you can pick up a good-enough box for $100 at Harbor Freight, if you have a 20 amp circuit. Plenty of youtube videos belaboring the process, so you can teach yourself if you have a pile of scrap. I practiced on a bunch of brackets and bolts that I didn't need. Best thing I ever did for my toolbox.

[BC Huselton]

Being able to weld and paint are game changers in these projects. I had time to go to our Community Tech Schools at night to learn both. They actually let me rent their paint booth. Check that out in your area for support. I recommend not investing in a cheap welder...I made that mistake. Buy a legit Miller or similar MIG with gas, or get one that you can use on anything like the Miller 110/220 with a spool gun. Yes $800 but you will never need to buy another one!

Enjoy the Process, BC

[frankc5r]

I agree. Flux welders splatter all over the place. If you are
welding on car, you need a HF weld blanket to
protect your chassis and parts. Having gas to
keep oxygen out of weld instead of flux makes
for clean welds with little cleanup

[Mitch Wright]

I 100% agree with BC and Frank, I have had my Lincoln Electric 175 Machine for over 20+ trouble free years, I also had a Miller Syncrowave 250 Tig Machine I sold before a move. Big mistake, I now have a Eastwood 200 tig machine that works well but can use a water cooled tip when doing a lot of welding.

[redfogo]

I have a miller 211 it works amazing! Like everyone else welding has made this project a lot more easy. If you plan to install a harness or use after market seats really is no other way around the install other then to weld in your own brackets.

[DanielsDM]

+1 on buying a good welder. I bought a cheap 120V mig years ago. I can only use shielding gas on thin stuff, basically sheet metal. You can do thicker stuff with flux core but it makes a mess. I bought a 200amp tig and rarely use the little mig anymore. You can't go wrong with a Miller or Lincoln but there are some other brands that are not as pricey that work really well too. Make sure you get something that is sold at a local welding supply store so you know you can get parts if/when something breaks on the machine. I have a Thermal Arc Tig (by Victor) and it works great.

[turbomacncheese]

I agree that flux is messy, and that's why I went with the MIG. But flux is also a lot simpler, and I found it REALLY easy to learn on my own with bunches of scrap. I don't think any of us mentioned yet that most MIG welders can also handle flux wire, so if pretty welds are on the agenda down the road, it might make sense to pay extra for that from the get-go.


As far as "good" brand vs "generic" brand, I've watched those threads devolve fairly quickly and nobody ends up changing their minds. I think it's like most tools; if you depend on it for your paycheck, or if you'll use it as much as a pro uses it, or if money isn't tight, consider a pro tool. I've never been disappointed by hobby use on cheap tools.

For my part, I'll be sure to post on here if my cheapo welder ever dies, but unless I start going for several hours a day, I don't expect it to happen any time soon.

[Hindsight]

I agree with you about welders. The price diff between miller/lincoln vs something like an Eastwood is just enormous. The cheap welders these days have good reliability for hobby use. If money is no object, by all means, get a pro welder, otherwise a reputable hobby welder should do you fine.

[Zach34]

I admit, I'm biased - I'm lucky to have logged a lot of hours on a water-cooled Miller Dynasty 200DX (TIG), and a Millermatic 190 (MIG). I do not like flux, to say it softly. I think it's easier to learn with gas shielding. Flux sputters, pops, and distracts a novice from focusing on what matters - the arc and puddle shapes. It's just a question of investment. If this is the only welding you'll ever do, it's hard to justify the cost of a gas shielded setup. I knew I'd be doing a lot more than just one car build with mine, and they've been great investments.

The triangular tabs in the picture I welded with the Millermatic 190. I'm a decent welder, not spectacular. The results speak more to the machine's ability. It leaves almost no spatter (the little bit you see are from FFR's welds on the tubes).20150307-March818progress-9068.jpg

[Innkeepr]

Learned to paint on my MK II, I have paint guns I haven't used in 10 years, but I still have them.
I bought a Lincoln Handy MIG this past summer - best investment yet. I too have not had great success with the Flux Core wire. Dirty, uneven, cant seem to get it to flow correctly.
Many of friends have said to ditch the flux core and get a bottle, easier to work with and better looking welds.
Another friend said with flux core " weld to hold, grind to show " - ya, that's about accurate.

[turbomacncheese]

I admit, I'm biased - I'm lucky to have logged a lot of hours on a water-cooled Miller Dynasty 200DX (TIG), and a Millermatic 190 (MIG). I do not like flux, to say it softly. I think it's easier to learn with gas shielding. Flux sputters, pops, and distracts a novice from focusing on what matters - the arc and puddle shapes. It's just a question of investment. If this is the only welding you'll ever do, it's hard to justify the cost of a gas shielded setup. I knew I'd be doing a lot more than just one car build with mine, and they've been great investments.

The triangular tabs in the picture I welded with the Millermatic 190. I'm a decent welder, not spectacular. The results speak more to the machine's ability. It leaves almost no spatter (the little bit you see are from FFR's welds on the tubes).20150307-March818progress-9068.jpg

That is purdy!!

[DanielsDM]

20150307-March818progress-9068.jpg

Looks great Zach!

[gpaterson]

Interesting topic. Like many others I started with a short list and ended up with a long list of additions. I am up to about NZD$50k which is about USD$35k and have certainly spend much more than I could ever recover but then that is not the purpose of the build. My estimated cost is in USD if you are interested.

Ordered a MkI RHD 818S kit with race race splitter, rear diffuser and side carbon-fibre panels. Full carpet too. High performance shocks. Packing case etc. All up cost was about US$14,000 or so. Freight to New Zealand plus taxes cost around US$6,000.

Firstly what did that I would do again:

Relocated the fuel take from behind the seat to in front of the front bulkhead. Custom made tank with baffled fuel pick-up zone with baffle foam. Used the donor fuel pump etc. No fuel starvation issues gave me 100mm extra leg room. (About $2,500)
Changed from the kit shifter to a MR2 shifter (rear-facing), shortened the shift cables etc. (About $350)
Relocated the intercooler to the rear with 2 x electric fans. Had a frame fabricated the also served as a mount (required to be mounted to the chassis in NZ) for the race wing. Race wing sourced locally. (About $2,500 all up)
Engine - did the cambelt and idlers etc. Baffled the sump to prevent oil surge/starvation. General tidy up without a full motor rebuild. I use a 2000cc JDM 2004 WRX 5 speed. (About $1,500)
Replaced the diff with a Cusco limited-slip and did the synchros on 3, 4 and 5. (Diff $450 and work outsourced about $1,000)
Upgraded the clutch. (About $500ish)
Upgraded the brake pads to Ferodo Race pads (FCP986R) (another $750ish) - absolutely no problems with brakes now using standard rotors and calibers (12" ventailated front 4 pot and 12" ventilated rear 2 pot)
Fitted 2 x Sparco EvoII seats and haresses. (seats and harnesses $1,500)
OZ racing rims and Dirreza ZII tyres from the Tyrerack (around $2,400 plus freight)
Imported a heater/demister from China ($45) and fitted the compressor and condensor from the donor ($300)
Modified the centre console to fit the tunnel. (bugger all)
Added head unit and Android tablet ($300)
Replaced the bonnet clips with something more befitting ($250)
Body work - spent a lot of time getting the body right, added extra support and fibreglass, grill, painted etc. ($8,000) - the biggest area of work required in the build. Just took a very long time.
Hours on eliminating the wicked bumpsteer. The steering geometry is the most serious design fault of the kit. That and the low roll bar. (Cost about 2 days of technician time so no change out of $1000)
As an early RHD kit, the factory just through in the right hand drive bit and pieces and hoped they would sort of work - well they didn't. My steering wheel is not in the right position (more an aesthetic problem that a usability issue to be fair). Getting it usable about $2,000 in fabrication including shifting the pedel box a couple of times. Hopefully they have got the RHD conversion sorted out now.
Mercedes Benz single wiper. (about $45 and a lot of frigging around).
Lots of other bits and pieces which I am too emabarassed to put a number on but I suspect my wife is keeping a running total.

What I did that I probably wouldn't do again
High spec shocks from FFR. While they are two way adjustable they require to be removed to be adjusted as they do not have remote cannisters. Most costly mistake I think. Plenty of high spec remote cannister coil over shock around that are far far easir to use. ($2,000 I think)
Probably buy the carpet locally - seemed bloody expensive for the few pieces I received.
Nothing else.

Yet to do:
Full compliance to use on NZ roads. I have done the preliminary check but will get the final check done in a couple of weeks. (US$1800 - $500 already spent)
Marine vinyl the dash and door cards (estimate $1,200)

The cost can get away on you so be careful.

Would I do it all again .... mmm not so sure!

2016-11-19 15.06.06 (Medium).jpg
#220 at Manfeild Raceway without its engine cover (removed to refitted the intercooler pipe blown off under full boost! Since remedied.

[phil1734]

Is there something different between the NA and Turbo motors that prevent you from teeing off the heater core as a burp solution?

It's the same pipe, and you have to do something with the heater core piping anyway to loop it. Seems like a much better idea to add something in line there then drilling and tapping a thin-wall cast aluminum coolant line and running additional fittings and hose. I did this (and added an expansion tank - because I have no de-gas tank) and don't even have to burp my car anymore. Just fill it and go.

3091700368_0a7d6dc7e3.jpg

[Mechie3]

I bought an Eastwood Tig 200 for $800 several years ago. Very very valuable tool. Not as good as my friends $3k lincoln, but much better than most in that range.

[Mechie3]

2016-11-19 15.06.06 (Medium).jpg
#220 at Manfeild Raceway without its engine cover (removed to refitted the intercooler pipe blown off under full boost! Since remedied.

First I've seen this car! I like it!

[gpaterson]

In our case, we went way past affordable, but we did learn some things in the process.
1. you don't need more power, it breaks things that are expensive, like transmissions, drive shafts and such. 2200lb car with 300hp at the wheels puts you in supercar land for power to weight.
2. do the maintenance stuff. Assume the bearings are bad and the seals need to be changed on any JDM engine. Not because they are, but because the engine has been sitting for 10 years without turning. Same goes for timing belt, oil pump, water pump, etc.
3. You don't need big brakes to start out. Figure this, a stock 2007 sti weighs 3100lbs. Your 818 should come in 900lbs less than that, so the brakes are way more than you need stock. Do use a Wilwood style pedal/master assembly as you will be able to dial in the brakes to your liking.
4. Get a limited slip.
5. Take your time and money on the shift linkage. you will be happy you did.
6. listen to the forum and do the oil separator the right way the first time. This is really important, as is the water neck mod to insure you don't cook your engine
7. airflow in and out of the engine bay should be addressed, you can't have too much. Heat wrap or ceramic coat every hot thing under the hood.
8. build the whole car, then take it apart and coat your frame! you will be happy you did!

I totally agree with everything including the last point!

[shinn497]

Mind if I bump this. since I'm still curious if the added weight/rearward bias of the STI trans is worth the extra strength. Also I'd like to confirm that the Six Speed has an LSD built in right? So that takes care of that.

I Stumbled on a thread where jim discussed some of the results of wind tunnel and track testing. He mentioned that AWICs increase in temp for track use. And I am curious what peoples' experiences have been. To what extent would a stock intercooler suffice (esp. for an STI build) and what solutions would be needed for higher temperatures?

[lance corsi]

I need to learn how to weld....

Yes you do!