Questions before I buy...

[BoostedTurbo]

So I have searched around a lot, and bugged the factory five rep long enough. So to give him and I a brake I was wondering if you guys could answer some of my questions if you have spare time. I will list the questions below.

What miles per gallon do you guys get on a wrx turbo?
Is it possible to use this as a reliable daily driver ( I can modify the interior and such to give me air conditioning).
Does this car hook well with drags in the rear and a turbo non modified.
With using the tranny and no brake traction control, does this car tend to one wheel peel a lot?
What are your 0-60 times for a wrx turbo?
How much did you pay for your donor, and what have you noticed was the most worn part of the donor you had to use?
Does the fiberglass body rattle?
Does the fiberglass body stand up well to rocks and dirt from the highway?
How hard is regular maintenance, such as changing oil (is the frame in the way)?
How is the driving ergonomics, is it made for small people or big people?
Is the shifting linkage very numb due to the cables?

And last question... If you look back on how much you spent with time and money, would you do it all over again?

Sorry I am extremely interested in this kit, but I do not want to set my expectations for a daily driver/ drag toy/ track toy... And then be side swiped with problems...
I will still have my 2012 wrx for winter driving, and possible daily. So I am not banking on a kit car to be 100% bullet proof.6

[ben1272]

So I have searched around a lot, and bugged the factory five rep long enough. So to give him and I a brake I was wondering if you guys could answer some of my questions if you have spare time. I will list the questions below.

What miles per gallon do you guys get on a wrx turbo? DONT KNOW
Is it possible to use this as a reliable daily driver ( I can modify the interior and such to give me air conditioning). OTHERS HAVE, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS A STIFF RIDE!
Does this car hook well with drags in the rear and a turbo non modified. NOT SURE....BY HOOKS WELL DO YOU MEAN TRACTION? I KNOW A LIMITED SLIP IS A MUST OR ELSE YOU GET ONE WHEEL BURNOUTS!
With using the tranny and no brake traction control, does this car tend to one wheel peel a lot? SEE ABOVE
What are your 0-60 times for a wrx turbo? I NEVER TRIED, BUT ARENT THEY PUBLISHED 4-5 SECS?
How much did you pay for your donor, and what have you noticed was the most worn part of the donor you had to use? $3500 (RECOVERED $1000 IN USED PARTS), RUSTED SUSPENSION PARTS WERE THE WORST (New England car)
Does the fiberglass body rattle? NOT IF YOU DO A GOOD JOB MOUNTING/BRACING/DAMPING
Does the fiberglass body stand up well to rocks and dirt from the highway? LIKE ANY FINISHED SURFACE I WOULD PLAN CHIP GUARD IF THIS WORRIES YOU
How hard is regular maintenance, such as changing oil (is the frame in the way)? SINCE YOU BUILT THE CAR MAINTENANCE SHOULD BE A BREEZE. NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY.
How is the driving ergonomics, is it made for small people or big people? MID SIZE PEOPLE FIT BEST.....THOUGH THERE ARE WOOKIE DRIVERS OUT THERE!
Is the shifting linkage very numb due to the cables? SORT OF WHEN FACTORY FIVE STOCK.....OTHERS HAVE MORE DIRECT BETTER SOLUTIONS THAT ARE READILY DOABLE.

And last question... If you look back on how much you spent with time and money, would you do it all over again? YES. IT IS FUN TO BUILD A CAR< BUT TIME CONSUMING!

Sorry I am extremely interested in this kit, but I do not want to set my expectations for a daily driver/ drag toy/ track toy... And then be side swiped with problems...
I will still have my 2012 wrx for winter driving, and possible daily. So I am not banking on a kit car to be 100% bullet proof.6

What miles per gallon do you guys get on a wrx turbo? DONT KNOW
Is it possible to use this as a reliable daily driver ( I can modify the interior and such to give me air conditioning). OTHERS HAVE, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS A STIFF RIDE!
Does this car hook well with drags in the rear and a turbo non modified. NOT SURE....BY HOOKS WELL DO YOU MEAN TRACTION? I KNOW A LIMITED SLIP IS A MUST OR ELSE YOU GET ONE WHEEL BURNOUTS!
With using the tranny and no brake traction control, does this car tend to one wheel peel a lot? SEE ABOVE
What are your 0-60 times for a wrx turbo? I NEVER TRIED, BUT ARENT THEY PUBLISHED 4-5 SECS?
How much did you pay for your donor, and what have you noticed was the most worn part of the donor you had to use? $3500 (RECOVERED $1000 IN USED PARTS), RUSTED SUSPENSION PARTS WERE THE WORST (New England car)
Does the fiberglass body rattle? NOT IF YOU DO A GOOD JOB MOUNTING/BRACING/DAMPING
Does the fiberglass body stand up well to rocks and dirt from the highway? LIKE ANY FINISHED SURFACE I WOULD PLAN CHIP GUARD IF THIS WORRIES YOU
How hard is regular maintenance, such as changing oil (is the frame in the way)? SINCE YOU BUILT THE CAR MAINTENANCE SHOULD BE A BREEZE. NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY.
How is the driving ergonomics, is it made for small people or big people? MID SIZE PEOPLE FIT BEST.....THOUGH THERE ARE WOOKIE DRIVERS OUT THERE!
Is the shifting linkage very numb due to the cables? SORT OF WHEN FACTORY FIVE STOCK.....OTHERS HAVE MORE DIRECT BETTER SOLUTIONS THAT ARE READILY DOABLE.

And last question... If you look back on how much you spent with time and money, would you do it all over again? YES. IT IS FUN TO BUILD A CAR< BUT TIME CONSUMING!

[flynntuna]

Road & Track did a road test on an early 818R, they got a 0-60 time of 3.8 seconds with a 270hp motor.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conten...y-required.pdf

[BoostedTurbo]

Thank you both so much!

My concern with the fiberglass is I live in an oilfield area, so a dirt ball the size of a grapefruit flying at me happens atleast once a year... And potholes are everywhere, I might go for an airbag suspension that I can tune...

I want a sub 3.5 second car, and I think with a little modifying on the cv's and fiberglass I could fit some nasty tires on the girl.

Again thank you both so much!

[turbomacncheese]

If you're worried about 0-60 times and tire size, well, the recommended rear tire is a 255, and the Challenger Hellcat rolls with 275. I think the big deal about big tires for this car is security in the high speed turns...not acceleration. Of course, I'm still disassembling a donor, so.......

[Aero STI]

Expect to build the 5 speed transmission or use a 6 speed from an STI if you're going to run sticky drag tires and get the car to hook hard off the line. New axles will be required.

[BoostedTurbo]

I own a 2012 subaru wrx, I have 40,000 miles on it and many many many 5 grand 2 step launches...
This whole thing about "wrx tranny being weak" is very misleading.... The tranny is basically bullet proof if you treat it correctly. Two other people I knew from my highschool bought wrx's same model years, and both blew their tranny and engines within 2 months of owning the car... It depends how you drive...
Cam, from Cam Tuning in ALB New Mexico ran a 800hp, 10 second wrx with stock tranny (upgraded clutch) for years. Never blew it up.
The problems you guys are having from these tranny's are most likely from the previous owners launching an awd car with too much traction, and the only thing that will give is the clutch or tranny.
But I agree, if I am buying a 2nd hand tranny, I will go with the sti, because I have no clue what the previous owner did...

Sorry for blowing up, but I get so many people going "nice car, but your tranny..." a few kids not knowing you can't launch a subbie like a mustang or like you do in video games have completely characterized the car. Also people building hp further than the tranny can handle, because you always want more power but never think, can my cv's, driveline, diff, etc. handle this power?

[BoostedTurbo]

I also just noticed your thing at the bottom, how fast is your 500whp 818s? Would you say you could keep up with a tesla p90 or dodge hellcat?

[AZPete]

Boosted, you seem to be focused on the destination, but this is journey. In other words, ask yourself if you are thinking of the 818 because you GET to build it, or that you HAVE to build it. For me and most others here, your last question is a loud YES! because building is fun for us.

In another thread is this amusing-but-true warning from Frank818 about other sources, not Factory Five:

Lessons learn for everyone especially the beginners:
ANYTHING can and will happen to you during a build, especially a 2-3+ years build. Packages you won't get, others that'll take 3 months, issues processing orders, receiving the wrong item twice from the same seller, fake websites stealing your money, sellers not telling you your item has shipped so you won't be home when it'll arrive, delivery man ringing on the wrong door, delivery truck snapping off an engine belt and skipping a day while you're home waiting for the delivery, carriers delivering on the wrong day, customs holding up your important package for a full audit, filing RMAs 3 times for the same part, stuff you'll buy and turn out you won't need, stuff you'll break and will need to buy again in a hurry, packages delivered to the wrong address, causing more delays for which you bought other stuff as replacements in the meantime and you get your item later but won't use it, cutting adhesive carpet upside-down TWICE scrapping the entire sheet, cutting too short, bending metal at the wrong place requiring to cut and weld, credit card # being cloned, stuff you'll lose, massacre, step on it, crush, drop, explode, burn, mistakenly weld to something else, wear out way too quickly, even swallow god damn it! As a beginner builder you have to be prepared to face these challenges which most of the time make you pay and waste time.

[phil1734]

To build on what Pete said above, if you're after a street-legal track toy that will be as fast and as ruthlessly brutal as possible, buy a C5, followed by a cam-shaft, coil-overs, roll-cage, exhaust and tires to match.

If you want to build your own car and have something nobody else does, welcome to the club!

[BoostedTurbo]

I apologize for coming off the wrong way.
A journey does not scare me, I am ready for the headache of getting the cherry picker just right and the engine won't fit so now I have to carefully grind off a 1/2 inch on the engine. Or the car I bought had warped heads now I need to get a new case...
I am not brand new new to building a car, as my father has built 2 datsun roadsters now (with very little of my help)... 1 for a fun toy with a sr20det swap, and the other as a show car mint restoration.
I have also worked as a part time mechanic, in a dirtbike shop, and in a jeep shop.
I love the way this car looks, and I envy my father for being able to drive around his roadster that he built himself. I have built dirtbikes, shotguns, houses, etc. and the feeling at the end justifies it all for me.
My question of "would you do it again" was badly phrased, I should of asked, would you still pick this exact kit to build. But hind sight is a jerk.

I am planning on taking 80% of my usable income I have this year and buying the donor and kit... The part I am the most scared of this entire project is, the donor car... I have had very bad experiences buying 2nd hand dirtbikes...

I am still in my 20's and desperately want a faster car than my wrx... I have already started saving to make my subbie a 11 second car, but now that I found this, for the same price as my subbie budget I am in love.

As far as taking an older corvette and making it fast, I have bounced around the idea of taking on old car and doing a swap and upgrades, but that just doesn't sit right with me. It's not my style, I like things that look great, and run even better.

Below is a video of my fathers datsun he has done nearly everything he could by hand and shipped out high expertise stuff like the diff, chroming, tranny, and a exhaust made for tuning: off to get it worked on. (on the same channel is my subbie.)

But I want to say, I really appreciate your comments AZPete.

[phil1734]

I think you're believing the FFR press materials a little too much. They've only been selling 818 kits for a few years now, and it's been a steep learning curve for them that they still haven't surmounted. As such, there are a lot of issues with the design of the chassis, body, suspension etc. that only very slowly being taken care of.

Can you buy a donor, a kit, and assemble your own car in ~250 hours? Yes. Absolutely. It hardly took me half of that.

BUT - the product you end up with there will be a far cry from the show cars that grace the pages of the FFR website. To get there, and have the performance similar to a Hellcat, most people are finding that it takes at least 3 years and at least an additional $15,000.

If you're okay with this being an ongoing project car, you can certainly spread out those costs over the years. You can build the car as the kit specs out, then tweak and tune it for as long as you want to throw money and labor at it. This is what I'm doing, and while hardly the most efficient way to go about it, it was the only way to do so affordably.

Lastly, I'm also a youngster, or "yoot" as I've been called on here. One thing to look out for that might nip your plans in the bud is that I'm not aware of any insurance company that will cover these cars for a driver under 25 years old. And most will not cover it as a "daily driver," not that there is any real way for them to enforce that stipulation.

I'm not trying to talk you out of taking the plunge by any means, just want to present you with the actual facts.

[Hindsight]

I think there is one primary answer to all your questions and that is: Do not get a kit car as a daily driver. You will likely not enjoy it's better qualities and will instead grow to hate it. Everyone is different but that's been my experience owning cars for decades. If you don't have a bunch of money to spend and that is why you are wanting a one size fits all car, get a cheap, old used Honda or Toyota as a daily driver, and then build an 818 as a fun car.

[flynntuna]

I agree, an 818 is a street legal race car. That's what it was designed as and to make it into a daily driver you'll have to live with the compromises that you may not like. Unless your idea of a dd is a hard tail Harley, then the 818 would be a step up.

[Innkeepr]

Boosted,

I can echo what others have said. I have been restoring cars/bikes for 30+ years, everyone has been a challenge due to make/model/ sourcing parts/ and TIME !
To quote Phil

I They've only been selling 818 kits for a few years now, and it's been a steep learning curve for them that they still haven't surmounted. As such, there are a lot of issues with the design of the chassis, body, suspension etc. that only very slowly being taken care of.
BUT - the product you end up with there will be a far cry from the show cars that grace the pages of the FFR website. To get there, and have the performance similar to a Hellcat, most people are finding that it takes at least 3 years and at least an additional $15,000.
.

This is 100% accurate, and sadly true. I have a MKII roadster I purchased in 2002. The advancements made from the MK1 to the MKIV are numerous, but it took years and hundreds of owners input to get it where it is today. The same journey for the 818 is sure to happen as these have developed quite a following. My plan was a GTM, but fell in love with the 818 when it was released.
A Daily Driver ? anything can be a DD, what are you willing to compromise on ? I took a 6 hour drive in my MKII - that cured me from wanting to drive it every day.
Will I drive the 818 more than the Cobra ? probably. Will I enjoy it more ? dont know.
What I do know is that the 25K budget for my MKII was 15K low. So my 22K 818 wont happen either, more like 40K I am guessing. I thought about getting a 06 Cayman S and dumping 20K into it, but thats all bolt on, and not what I want to do.
The Porsche would have everything I want, years of testing, support and conveniences. In the end, its just another car I bought, and the satisfaction would not be there.

If you are serious (and it appears you are) then you are on the right path. Source easy to get pieces and set them aside. I stripped a donor and have already tossed a bunch of stuff in favor of new items.
What I kept.
Pedal box/ steering column and rack/ spindles/ door hinges ( until a better solution comes along)/ rear lateral arms/ fuel pump&sending unit/master cylinders/ and a radiator that was new.
I am buying new front control arms (06 aluminum) new brakes, wheels/tires/ seats, mirrors, gauges, Megasquirt / painless body harness, rear control arms, cvs and others.
Bought an ej207 and 5sp trans - both being rebuilt to achieve performance goals.
I plan on purchasing the kit December this year - planning. The rebuilds are costly and take away from the kit funds.

Insurance - big caution. Know your agent/policy. My MKII has a stated value and some restrictions. 300 bucks a year (over 25yo) My INS would be close to 1800 year on top of my existing policies to add my 19yo son.
Would I build another MK roadster - YES ! Will I build the 818 ? yes ! for me its about the build/satisfaction, and having something different.

Best of luck !
"E"

[Terho]

I am also interested in building a 818c. What sort of things are there that go over the budget so much?

[phil1734]

Just adding in some seats, wheels, shifter and carbon bits from factory five in the initial order can easily ring up $5,000.

An air-water intercooler is pretty much required and lists for $1,400 from VCP.

A custom wiring harness from VCP or iWire is $2,000 give or take depending on options.

Decent paint or vinyl is around $5,000. (Or so I've been told, seems a bit high to me.)

New tires can get close to another $1,000

So there's $14,400, and that's before you start adding up "the small stuff" like new bushings, bearings, seals, head gaskets, fluids, registration fees, extra hardware, etc.

And don't forget to figure in how you're getting the kit to your garage in the first place.

Edit: Engine upgrades and turning can easily be another $3,000 for a relatively mild build depending on what your donor comes with.

[lance corsi]

What I have found is this; everything you will get with the kit will work, however upgrade components are available. If you are planning on creature comforts, that's another cost. If you want what FFR has in their stable, be prepared for $50 k. There will always be another addition\mod you will want to do. There's lots that can be done for cheap if you have the skills. I've spent lots of time planning how I want my car to look and work, which I consider part of the build. It all adds up, hours & money! You will learn to enjoy the journey before its finished!

[Fire Alarm Guy]

Boosted, please don't think I'm trying to be harsh or to put you down in any way, but you seem to be so focused on the Hellcat as a standard and drag racing (whether on the street or track) that you are missing the whole point of the 818. An 818 is NOT a drag car. It never will be unless you totally redesign the car. Can it be drag raced, sure! Will it ever 'launch' hard, never! The physics just aren't there. Ever see a Porsche launch as hard as a well sorted street/strip car? Ever see that same street/strip car go around a corner and stay with even the most basic Porsche 914? The 818 is meant to be something very basic, like say a Miata, as FFR sells it. It can/could be a Corvette or Porsche killer if YOU build it to be that way! As for the Hellcat, what's the attraction? Newest, lastest, coolest...cause it has 700 hp? The new Demon is sposed to have more than 800. Where are you going to be able to use that much hp except at a track? If you do some research, a new Mustang or Camaro will out brake/stop, out corner, and run right with a Hellcat on the strip. Of the two Hellcat I have been around so far, and the pleasure of driving one of them, they are great smoke machines. Mash the gas and no tire can get traction and up in smoke they go. They do great burn outs, looks impressive! Tried the launch control, it worked real good but the car didn't really start to be fast until after about 60mph, then it came on like a freight train...great fun. But I saw my friends car (the one I drove) drop 3 out of 3 passes to a Chevelle with a 383, manual shifted auto, and a 4 link with drag radials. Decide what you really want to do/have. A drag car, build a Mustang or Camaro, there are tons of parts and support for just that type of thing
'Corner carver', mild to wild, Miata to Ferarri, how fast can you afford to go? Or if you want something that you have built and made it exactly how you want it, then an 818 might be for you.

[Blwalker105]

Nicely phrased. Couldn't agree more.

[mac1]

I can only answer some of this.......

What miles per gallon do you guys get on a wrx turbo? 21-24.5
Is it possible to use this as a reliable daily driver ( I can modify the interior and such to give me air conditioning). depending on your size
Does this car hook well with drags in the rear and a turbo non modified.
With using the tranny and no brake traction control, does this car tend to one wheel peel a lot?
What are your 0-60 times for a wrx turbo?
How much did you pay for your donor, and what have you noticed was the most worn part of the donor you had to use?
Does the fiberglass body rattle? there is just 1 rubbing/squeeking spot where the rear humps meet the roll hoops
Does the fiberglass body stand up well to rocks and dirt from the highway? I would say yes
How hard is regular maintenance, such as changing oil (is the frame in the way)? A single low profile jack/custom ramps/regular in-trunk scissor jack will lift most of the car and teeder
How is the driving ergonomics, is it made for small people or big people? 6'1" for me i think and I prefer to use CC when possible
Is the shifting linkage very numb due to the cables?VCP shifter with custom rearward cables are very tight and very short

[B]