Front Alignment - caster

[ThickCobra]

I am tackling the front alignment and have a few quick questions. These are all preliminary as the body is not on yet, but since i plan to drive it a bit before then, i thought i may as well practice. Front toe is 1/8 and camber is -0.5. Left front wheel caster is + 7-8 degrees, while the right front caster goes negative and I run out of adjustment. I'm using the Fastrax Camber and Caster tool which seems decent. And, yes, I added an extension to the vertical arm.

I noticed that the front left lower ball joint is forward of the left upper ball joint, while the front right lower ball joint is aft of the right upper ball joint. This is where I'm a bit confused as I thought that with positive camber, the lower ball joints would be aft of the uppers? Not correct? Also, why are my lowers not both fore or aft?

[2bking]

Sounds like you might have one upside down or assembled incorrectly. Do you have pictures?

[Jeff Kleiner]

I noticed that the front left lower ball joint is forward of the left upper ball joint, while the front right lower ball joint is aft of the right upper ball joint. This is where I'm a bit confused as I thought that with positive camber, the lower ball joints would be aft of the uppers? Not correct? Also, why are my lowers not both fore or aft?

Positive caster will have the lower joint forward of the upper.



Can't tell ya' why you are seeing the discrepency side to side. Are you sure that you aren't reading the gauge "backasswards" when you swap sides? If you are certain that your readings are good then try showing us some photos like King said. When you get this sorted out and move to toe make sure that you set for TOE IN (the front of the tires will be closer together than the rears), not toe out.

Keep us updated!

Jeff

[ThickCobra]

I know pics would tell the whole story and I feel bad that I haven't had success attaching any. You guys have been super helping me thru things (complete kit) going only by my desriptions. I will take some pics and try again. First off (2bking), I will revisit my installation of the arms. As they came assembled with the grease fittings on the topside, install was rather easy. But then, maybe they were assembled improperly.

Secondly, (Jeff), I appreciate the diagrams, and it appears my thinking was assbackwards. Also, I noted your comment about setting the toe last. I set the toe first, then camber and Caster. Then, started again. Hours on this, 2 days in a row. Not giving up yet.

Jay

[ThickCobra]

Success. I took a fresh look at the arms this morning and confirmed I installed them properly. And the diagram of caster angles helped to orient me. The right front was the problem. I let out the tie rod and tackled the camber and caster again. First I adjusted the upper arms so the upper ball joint was aft of the lower ball joint. A little confusing but I got there. This really was the key. With my first adjustment, my right caster went positive. I new things would go much better. When I achieved the settings I wanted, I re-did toe "in".


As I said, success. Though it's only preliminary, it should drive and track well. No success, however, with uploading pics. I'll keep practicing.

Jay

[phileas_fogg]

This is how I post pictures:

Part 1: First time set up
1. Go to flickr.com & open an account. I like flickr because it works everywhere & they still support third party hosting.
2. Click the "Albums" tab below the main banner and then the “New Album” tab below that to create a folder for your build pictures.
3. Name your folder by typing its name in the box on the top left of the page. Then drag your pictures into the big box to add them to the album.
4. Make your build album is listed as "Public". NOTE: If you don't make the photos public, the forum will display a question mark icon instead of your photo.

Part 2: In Flickr
5. Drag the pictures you want to upload onto the "Click To Upload" icon.
6. Click the “Share Photo” icon (looks like a right turning arrow at the bottom right of the picture) you want to add to a post in the forum. This will bring up a white pop-up menu.
7. Select the BBCode tab of the pop-up. This will bring up a text box with the link to your photo highlighted. Copy this link to your clipboard

Part 3: In the forum
8. Paste the link into your post on the forum. Repeat steps 6-7 for however many photos you want to include.
9. Click "Preview Post" to see how the forum will render your post with pictures.

I'm looking forward to reading about your build.


John

[steno]

With a lot of caster you may have a problem with the coilovers and upper control arm rubbing. You may need to play with the spacers to get clearance. Just a thought.

[ThickCobra]

With a lot of caster you may have a problem with the coilovers and upper control arm rubbing. You may need to play with the spacers to get clearance. Just a thought.

I will keep an eye on it, thanks. My goal is to have the car licensed and ready for our annual family reunion near the Dells, Wisconsin by mid June. Even if it's just in gel coat. As most of you know, I am working toward 1st start. I'm getting a little itchy to start it up, but I hope patience will reward me...rechecking everything. It is my first.

Chris, I'll give you a heads up. Jay

[ThickCobra]

This is how I post pictures:

Part 1: First time set up
1. Go to photobucket.com & open an account.
2. Click the "Create New Album" link on the left side of the page to create a folder for your build pictures.
3. Click on the folder name (under "Albums" on the left side of the page) to take you to the album you just created.
4. Click the Lock Icon next to your album name. This will bring up an "Edit Privacy Settings" dialogue box; make your build album "Public". NOTE: If you don't make the photos public, the forum will display a question mark icon instead of your photo.

Part 2: In photobucket
5. Drag the pictures you want to upload onto the "Click To Upload" icon.
6. Click the picture you want to add to a post in the forum. On the right of the screen you'll see four boxes under "Share This Photo".
7. Click the IMG box (NOTE: You don't have to wait for photobucket to load the image before you click and sometimes the photo may take a while); this will copy the link in the box to your clipboard.

Part 3: In the forum
8. Paste the link into your post on the forum. Repeat steps 6-8 for however many photos you want to include.
9. Click "Preview Post" to see how the forum will render your post with pictures.

I'm looking forward to reading about your build.


John

I will try it first thing this morning. Big thanks!

[ThickCobra]

I will try it first thing this morning. Big thanks!

It looks like I need to buy a new laptop to handle the process...current Dell is really old. And my new Samsung tablet just isn't up to the task. Then again it could be operator error. I figured 3 hours today, on my birthday, was enough frustration. Thanks for the steps.

[NAZ]

Happy Birthday ThickCobra. All I do is download the pictures off my smart phone as JPEG files to my desktop. Using the insert image icon on the Quick Reply to find the image off my desktop and download it here:

Rebco Camber_Caster.JPG

Not a lot of steps involved. At my age if it takes too long I've missed my nap time.

[ThickCobra]

Happy Birthday ThickCobra. All I do is download the pictures off my smart phone as JPEG files to my desktop. Using the insert image icon on the Quick Reply to find the image off my desktop and download it here:

Rebco Camber_Caster.JPG

Not a lot of steps involved. At my age if it takes too long I've missed my nap time.

NAZ, thanks for the tip and funny response. Made me (and my wife) chuckle.

[ThickCobra]

20170204_101432_zpswuftyvbh.jpg

Let's see if this works,

[NAZ]

Looks like success on the photo download.

[CraigS]

A couple of thoughts on your alignment. Yes, you go around and around on caster,camber, and toein. Each time around you get closer and closer. Toe is usually the last adjustment but I always have it at least eyeball good at the beginning. I recommend you get the alignment and ride height perfect w/ the body off as it is MUCH easier to do when you can just turn those sleeves w/o jacking the car up. Make careful notes as to the ride height. When you install the body and all the other stuff, and as the car is driven initially, the height will drop some. Raise it to your spec height and the alignment will again be perfect.

[ThickCobra]

A couple of thoughts on your alignment. Yes, you go around and around on caster,camber, and toein. Each time around you get closer and closer. Toe is usually the last adjustment but I always have it at least eyeball good at the beginning. I recommend you get the alignment and ride height perfect w/ the body off as it is MUCH easier to do when you can just turn those sleeves w/o jacking the car up. Make careful notes as to the ride height. When you install the body and all the other stuff, and as the car is driven initially, the height will drop some. Raise it to your spec height and the alignment will again be perfect.

I believe most set their height at 4 1/5", but is this really necessary? Maybe for the track but not necessarily for street use? I ask this as what you suggest makes sense to me and I have my height all around set at 5 1/4". After assembly of everything, I could raise the car back to my 5 1/4" height and be set and enjoy a little more ground clearance. Thoughts?

[awd-turbo]

20170204_101432_zpswuftyvbh.jpg

Let's see if this works,

is it me? or is your front shock upside down?

[ThickCobra]

The shock is correctly oriented. They're the double adjustable Koni shocks provided with the anniversary complete kit.

[CraigS]

5 1/4 is really high for most of us. Somewhere in the 4- 4.5 range is more common. I think you will find that, once the body is one, 5 1/4 gives you an unusual look. But it's no big deal. If you decide you want to lower it, go ahead. You will have a little more negative camber, maybe 1/2 deg more, and will want to re-check the toein but that's easy.

[ThickCobra]

Good to know, thanks. I think I'll revisit my settings.

I also have a quick question on power steering. A while back I installed power steering and recently filled the reservoir and primed it using a drill as suggested by another on this site. It turns easily while under power, but when not under power it locks intermittently while turning the wheel. For example, I'll turn the wheel to the right and at a quarter turn it stops. I'll back off a bit and try it again. It will continue to turn but stop again. It will do this turning the wheel left or right. Is this normal?

As I said, under power it's works well and "bonus"...no leaks.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The hard steering without it running is because you're having to manually force through the rack, transfer lines and pump. Do it enough and it'll belch fluid out of the vent hole in the pump cap.

Jeff

[ThickCobra]

The hard steering without it running is because you're having to manually force through the rack, transfer lines and pump. Do it enough and it'll belch fluid out of the vent hole in the pump cap.

Jeff

Jeff,

I was doing it while cycling thru Camber, Caster and toe. Good to know nothing is wrong.

Thanks, Jay

[CraigS]

Don't worry about the PS bleeding. The system is self bleeding. Once you start the engine it will bleed air by itself. Turning the wheel back and forth lock to lock makes it go a little quicker. At first start have some PS fluid handy to top up the reservoir in case it goes too low but concentrate on the engine stuff. By the time you have the engine idling, timing set, checked for leaks, etc, the PS will be good to go.

[ThickCobra]

Will do!

[Avalanche325]

When measuring caster are you starting with the front of the wheel out, zeroing, then turning the front of the wheel in? If you do it backwards, you will read negative.

Drivers side - turn left, zero gauge, turn right, read.
Passenger side - turn right, zero gauge, turn left, read.

[ThickCobra]

When measuring caster are you starting with the front of the wheel out, zeroing, then turning the front of the wheel in? If you do it backwards, you will read negative.

Drivers side - turn left, zero gauge, turn right, read.
Passenger side - turn right, zero gauge, turn left, read.

Thanks for the confirmation. I now have it correct, though initially I did not have the right upper and lower ball joins correctly oriented. Getting the 15° gauge parallel to the vehicle was also a challenge. A lot of guessing even though I added some sticks to help seeing level with the side of a car.

[arboc724]

Hello ThickCobra(Jay)?

In the photo you posted of your drivers side suspension,.... I noticed that the snap ring on your coilover, was NOT in the correct 'rotational' location with
the SPLIT in the upper spring seat. The SPLIT & the snap ring(opening) should be opposite each other,..... or at least, NOT NEAR each other. I hope that this
message is clear in the description,...... I am a 'newby' at posting(replying) in forums,..... I hope that I have correctly attached a modified copy of the photo
you posted, of your D/side suspension,... and the image will clarify my description. I hope that I have been of some assistance.
regards,
Mike (arboc724)
[email protected]Coilover Snap Ring issue.jpg

[slpro1207]

Good catch arboc724

[ThickCobra]

Hello ThickCobra(Jay)?

In the photo you posted of your drivers side suspension,.... I noticed that the snap ring on your coilover, was NOT in the correct 'rotational' location with
the SPLIT in the upper spring seat. The SPLIT & the snap ring(opening) should be opposite each other,..... or at least, NOT NEAR each other. I hope that this
message is clear in the description,...... I am a 'newby' at posting(replying) in forums,..... I hope that I have correctly attached a modified copy of the photo
you posted, of your D/side suspension,... and the image will clarify my description. I hope that I have been of some assistance.
regards,
Mike (arboc724)
[email protected]Coilover Snap Ring issue.jpg

Mike,

Thanks for the catch. As I'm still in gokart stage, 'I'll check the "c" clip position on all 4 shocks. As a follow up, I have now driven the car a bit with the body off always watching for oil and other fluid leaks. Glad I did as I noticed a possible power steering leak near the rack steering shaft. I was right to be concerned as the shaft seal ruptured. It sprayed fluid everywhere and left a nice 2'×2' puddle on my new asphalt driveway. (Advice to others, clean up immediately and scrub with soap and water and rinse. Don't wait till the next day. )

Just pulled the rack. And, decided to swap it out for a rack from Breeze. I received the rack within 2 days...unbelievably cool. Discussed it with Mark before placing the order, great guy. I'm curious whether anyone has needed to use the "steering limit spacers" Mark provides with his kit to prevent the wheels from rubbing the splash guards?

[phileas_fogg]

I have the Breeze rack, and my tires rub. But that's because I'm using wider tires (275/40ZR17) up front than most. I'll probably just let them rub; it'll only matter if I turn tightly in a parking lot.

If you're running "normal" width tires (245/45ZR17), then the above doesn't apply.


John

[edwardb]

I have BFG Rival S 245/40ZR18's and the Breeze PS rack on #8674. The tires rubbed the F-panels without the limiters. I put them in when I did my final alignment. It still has plenty of turn radius. No issues.

[ThickCobra]

I have BFG Rival S 245/40ZR18's and the Breeze PS rack on #8674. The tires rubbed the F-panels without the limiters. I put them in when I did my final alignment. It still has plenty of turn radius. No issues.

Paul,

I have the same set up and tires as you. Sounds like now's a good time to add the limiters before I slide the new rack into place.

Thanks, Jay