2015 irs / abs

[frd2]

Can't wait for my kit to arrive.

Planning on installing abs (98 donor?) to my 2015 IRS but I'm still confused.

Have read a couple of amazing build threads that mention. None of them truly spell out the installation.

Especially describing anything special needed because of the magnetic pickups instead of the gear looking ring.
Do i simply hook up the 2015 rear sensors to the 98 unit and it gets the same signal from them, or am I buying additional parts (like the tone ring?) to install on my rear?

First question of many I'm sure!

Greg

[edwardb]

Maybe my build thread is one of the ones you mention. I did talk a bit about the magnetic speed sensors in the 2015 IRS. I didn't install ABS, so can't offer any guidance there. But what I can tell you is that I'm 99.9% sure the newer magnetic sensors won't be compatible with your 98 ABS unit. Older technology sensors were passive and generate AC current by passing the teeth of the tone ring by a permanent magnet sensor. Newer sensors, like what's in the 2015 IRS, are called active sensors and are passing the magnetic bearing by a hall cell. They generate a digital signal. To use your 98 ABS unit, you're going to need to figure out how to install the old sensors on the 2015 IRS.

[2bking]

As you probably know, the ABS is a stand alone system and doesn't need any PCM input to work. What you need are the tone ring sensors that mate with the year of the ABS controller and an ABS controller that doesn't include traction control. There are several sources for the controller and Ford has a mating connector with pigtails you can get to simply the wiring. I used a 99-04 Controller and got the sensors, connectors, and sensor harness taken from a 99-04 Thunderbird through MPS Auto Salvage. It's important that the sensors match the controller (99-04 controller, 99-04 sensors) because of the impedance matching. Mine is a three channel which controls the rear brakes with one channel and front brakes with the other two. There are some four channel ABS controllers but I'm thinking they will include traction control. I have the older version of IRS that was used in the Thunderbirds and the rear ABS sensors mount to the pumpkin and the tone rings are on the axle shafts. The 2015 IRS has the tone ring inside the knuckle and the sensor mounts in a hole on top of the knuckle. I borrowed this picture from EdwardBs build thread, post #17, which shows the mounting location with the block off plate attached.
2015IRSknuckle.jpg

There is a thread on the FFCars Forum by Greg_M that details the installation of ABS using a 94/95 controller. The later models are similar. Greg may have some information on the 2015 IRS and adapting an older ABS controller

The FFR front spindles come with the ABS tone rings but the sensor mount is missing. The mounts are somewhat simple to make or they can be purchased from a FFR Forum Sponsor, Russ Thomson.
73954d1379042422-abs-brackets-mk-iv-spindles-russ[1].jpg 73962d1379042437-abs-brackets-mk-iv-spindles-russ2[1].jpg

EDIT: I started this reply before Edwardb post above so some of it is redundant. From what Edwardb says about the hall effect sensors, the problem is the compatibly of the older sensors with the 2015 magnetic rings inside the IRS knuckles. Don't know if it is possible but the magnetic ring would have to be replaced with a gear type ring with the same number of teeth as on the front spindle tone ring. If it can't be done inside the knuckle, then mounting it similar to the Thunderbird IRS may be an option.

There are some pictures of my installation in my build thread shown in the signature below

[GoDadGo]

Look At EdwardB's Build Threads & Do Your Best To Duplicate The Level Of Quality & Detail That He Is Capable Of!
If you do, then your car won't look like it was built by a novice, but a seasoned builder instead.

Steve

[CraigS]

Matching the rings, sensors and ecu is critical. When I worked on Lexus cars there was one model that would get a rust buildup under the tone ring where it had been pressed onto the axle. It would expand until the ring cracked. There would be about a .020 inch extra gap between the teeth where the crack was. That gap would trigger and abs activation at parking lot speeds. Another model would get a rust buildup that pushed the sensor away from the ring by about .030 inch w/ similar results. I relate this just so you understand the detail you will need to work with to do your own setup.

[edwardb]

EDIT: I started this reply before Edwardb post above so some of it is redundant. From what Edwardb says about the hall effect sensors, the problem is the compatibly of the older sensors with the 2015 magnetic rings inside the IRS knuckles. Don't know if it is possible but the magnetic ring would have to be replaced with a gear type ring with the same number of teeth as on the front spindle tone ring. If it can't be done inside the knuckle, then mounting it similar to the Thunderbird IRS may be an option.

Thanks for your info based on actual ABS installation experience. FYI, there's no chance to replace anything inside the 2015 IRS knuckles to add a tone ring. The magnetic ring is actually integral to the bearing itself. This isn't a very high quality video, but does show the magnetic ring with the multiple segments. I don't know if this is a Ford 2015 IRS bearing. But looks very similar if it isn't. Go to about 30 seconds in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e32t-d32SEg. Kind of interesting actually. To use one of the older ABS setups, I agree it will be necessary to externally mount the tone ring and sensors.

[frd2]

I was almost expecting the names above to post a response without me specifically asking just based on everything else I have read. One of the reasons I decided to take the plunge and build vs buy used.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

And yes, I would love to have 2/3 the build quality as that incredible 20th anniversary car!

[kcorn]

I am planning a similar brake set up for my build and would like to incorporate abs as well. Edwardb's build thread has some very good pictures of the 2015 IRS setup. From looking at those I think that a tone ring on the outer CV housing might work. Now the challenge is to find one with the right number of teeth that will be a press fit. Right now I am in sunny Mexico and don't have access to the mustang half shafts to measure One possibility to check out is 2006-2010 Ford Explorer which shows 150mm inside diameter in one diagram I found online

[DaleG]

I believe front and rear tire diameters must be relatively close, also?

[2bking]

The tone rings on the old style IRS have 50 teeth as well as the ones on the front wheels. The old style IRS used the Thunderbird design and the part number for the rear axle tone rings is ABS-FD-09. These are shown with measurements in the pictures below:
20140708_163712d.jpg 20140708_163850d.jpg 20140708_163922d.jpg

Here is a website with a list of tone rings used on many cars. Any ring with 50 teeth would be a candidate for adapting to the 2015+ axle.

If I were going to attempt this, I would plan on mounting the tone ring similar to the old style IRS (on the inner axle half shaft) and attach the sensor to the pumpkin. There seems to be unmachined bosses on the pumpkin that could be used for the sensor attachment. The inner axle half shaft looks to have a machined diameter suitable for pressing a tone ring. IF all that works out, it would be a simple fix. This is a problem looking for a pioneer to solve.

[frd2]

interesting that the website doesn't list mustangs at all? Was hoping to at least confirm that the 2015 uses 50 teeth.

Thanks for the link though

Greg

[edwardb]

FWIW, I just measured the inner CV joint on my 2015 IRS setup. It measures 3.75 inches on the main body, and then there's an area about 1/2 inch wide nearest to the center section that has a second machining step that measures 3.672 inches. Don't be cutting metal or anything to those dimensions, but I believe they're pretty close. Should give an idea anyway. There are some nice ears standing out from the center section near the CV joints that look like they would be ideal for sensors.

Note that the CV axles for the 2015 IRS setup from Factory Five, supplied by The Driveshaft Shop in NC, are using the standard Ford OE CV joints. Just with new and shorter axles. For my build, I had a complete IRS pallet so had the OE Mustang CV axles. The CV joints were identical. Same Ford PN, etc.

[2bking]

interesting that the website doesn't list mustangs at all? Was hoping to at least confirm that the 2015 uses 50 teeth.

Thanks for the link though

Greg

Doesn't really matter what the 2015 Mustang uses as all the sensors would be hall effect and not compatible with the older ABS modules. The front hubs FFR supplies come with 50 tooth tone rings so the rear ones need to match. From what Edwardb says, adapting the rings to the inner CV joint should be easy. If I understand the comment Edwardb says about the CV joints being identical between old design and new, it would be even easier to replace the inner CV joint with one that has the step machined for the tone ring.

[frd2]

doing a ton of google searches tonight and came across an old thread on the other forum 2bking.

Still got any of those thunderbird tone rings?

[2bking]

doing a ton of google searches tonight and came across an old thread on the other forum 2bking.

Still got any of those thunderbird tone rings?

No, but they can be found at the drive shaft shops. If they don't have them they can order them. I ordered ten to get the price break else they would have been about $35 each. If you google the ABS-FD-09 part number, you will find a lot of auto supply stores that claim to have them. There are sources that sell used ones but they are easily warped when pressing them off the hub so I would prefer to get new ones.

[frd2]

Knew I was confused and had seen this someplace - check out this link. http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/word.../part-numbers/


Found it on the other forum originally reading about installing F150 coyote. But John also installed abs using factory 2015 IRS setup. Sure looks like he wired it up as though it was the same as the older thunderbird style. He married it up with the same tone ring that would be on the FFR spindle as I read the parts list.

looking for opinions here - I did send him an email to clarify. But this implies that the module does not know the difference....??

[edwardb]

From what Edwardb says, adapting the rings to the inner CV joint should be easy. If I understand the comment Edwardb says about the CV joints being identical between old design and new, it would be even easier to replace the inner CV joint with one that has the step machined for the tone ring.

Looks like I didn't explain myself very well. Sorry about that. My comments were completely about the 2015 IRS setup. I've never seen or used the older T-Bird setup, so not qualified to say anything about it. I was only saying the CV axles that FF supplies for the 2015 IRS use the same Ford OE CV joints as the ones Ford puts on the 2015 and newer Mustangs. A fact that I confirmed by having a set of the newer Mustang CV axles in my IRS pallet. I only mentioned it because maybe that would help in figuring out what tone rings would be compatible.

To hopefully help a little, a snapped these two pictures tonight of my build. Shows the 2015 CV axle and center section, with an ear on the center section that looks like it could be used to mount a sensor. One close up and another longer view to give perspective.

[2bking]

Knew I was confused and had seen this someplace - check out this link. http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/word.../part-numbers/


Found it on the other forum originally reading about installing F150 coyote. But John also installed abs using factory 2015 IRS setup. Sure looks like he wired it up as though it was the same as the older thunderbird style. He married it up with the same tone ring that would be on the FFR spindle as I read the parts list.

looking for opinions here - I did send him an email to clarify. But this implies that the module does not know the difference....??

Sounds like John George's racing team has this figured out. When you get a reply, perhaps post it here for others to find. I found the ABS parts list for his Challenge Car that shows a 2007-2009 Ford Mustang GT500 ABS module, front sensor BRAB291, and rear sensor BRAB406 for the 2015 IRS. I could not get the pictures to show.

[Mark Dougherty]

I am sure John will post
About this
We did use it on his challlange car but John did not like it
So on the new coupe we will not be using the IRS

[johngeorge]

Hi all,

I wrote up abs install a while ago: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ight=abs+gt500

The 2015 IRS uses BRAB406 sensor, which worked hooked up to the GT500 abs module. The tone ring is built into the 2015 hub and is magnetic you dont see teeth like you do on the front. It does work though.

[toadster]

Hi all,

I wrote up abs install a while ago: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ight=abs+gt500
The 2015 IRS uses BRAB406 sensor, which worked hooked up to the GT500 abs module. The tone ring is built into the 2015 hub and is magnetic you dont see teeth like you do on the front. It does work though.

which front sensor is used? the BRAB291 looks too long and about 1/2 the size of the ABS bracket hole
IMG_0620.jpg IMG_0621.jpg

[toadster]

figured out he used the BRAB-290 sensor on the front - took a few tries to find the right ones...

https://cobradreams.com/2020/10/14/r...t-abs-sensors/