Coupe Roof Problem...........DESPERATE!

[Wageslave]

I just bought a partially completed coupe, seemed like a good idea at the time.
What I found when trying to get the doors lined up was a large gap between the roof and the door top. I couldn't get the door high enough to close the gap to any where near 1/4 inch so I started investigating and found the roof is 1/2 higher on the drivers side than the passengers side. There is a quarter inch gap at the rear of the door between the roof and the sail panel. The glass has already been installed, the dash is in, wipers and wiper pan are in. I can't find anything in the manual I have that tells me how to mount the roof. Is it a bad idea to unbolt the roof and try to even it up, scared of cracking the glass. Or even worse, loosening the roof and it doesn't move. Before I start dismantling the whole body is there a way to fix this?
Is there an updated assembly manual for the coupe that has some detail of the roof install?
I'm lost.
Thanks for any input


FFR 818C.jpg

[mikeb75]

There are 2 main points you need to loosen to adjust the hardtop fit at the front/doors:

The front window frame to the chassis is fixed by 2 carriage bolts (per side) that are at the bottom of the 'A' pillars. There is a bit of up/down front/back adjustment built into this area - you can loosen the carriage bolts to gain the adjustability.

The 'B' pillars at the rear of the door opening (normally) uses a pair of steel 'L' brackets & bolts to fix the B pillar to the side sails. These are not load bearing attachments, but rather seem to be used to fix the B pillar to the body & fix the alignment.

When you say you have a gap to address between the door and the H/T do you mean between the A pillar and the door (front) or B pillar and side panel (rear)?

You can definitely move or remove the H/T with the glass installed - I strongly recommend 2 people for that!

There is H/T installation information in the supplemental assembly instructions - see the 818 Manual rev-P (from the website or ask FFR for an updated version).

If you need additional details keep asking (there aren't too many H/T builds on the forum I've seen that are far along... AZPete has the most complete build I think). Right now my H/T is in the shed and the car is in the garage so I can't shoot new pictures of how things go together -but I have a large stock photos from the original assembly.

[Wageslave]

There are 2 main points you need to loosen to adjust the hardtop fit at the front/doors:

The front window frame to the chassis is fixed by 2 carriage bolts (per side) that are at the bottom of the 'A' pillars. There is a bit of up/down front/back adjustment built into this area - you can loosen the carriage bolts to gain the adjustability.

The 'B' pillars at the rear of the door opening (normally) uses a pair of steel 'L' brackets & bolts to fix the B pillar to the side sails. These are not load bearing attachments, but rather seem to be used to fix the B pillar to the body & fix the alignment.

When you say you have a gap to address between the door and the H/T do you mean between the A pillar and the door (front) or B pillar and side panel (rear)?

You can definitely move or remove the H/T with the glass installed - I strongly recommend 2 people for that!

There is H/T installation information in the supplemental assembly instructions - see the 818 Manual rev-P (from the website or ask FFR for an updated version).

If you need additional details keep asking (there aren't too many H/T builds on the forum I've seen that are far along... AZPete has the most complete build I think). Right now my H/T is in the shed and the car is in the garage so I can't shoot new pictures of how things go together -but I have a large stock photos from the original assembly.

I'm hoping I don't have to completely remove the roof, I want to just loosen all the bolts and even it up. I was just afraid of racking the roof and cracking the windshield.

Both, 1/2+ gap at A pillar between door and A pillar, 1/4 inch gap at sail panel on B pillar.

I'll pm AZPete and see if he has any insight

Thanks for the help Mike

[mikeb75]

Ok, definitely loosen all the bolts and see what corrections you can make with the adjustments. Note, how the back of the H/T sits will also affect the alignment of the front. I think you are always have some gap between the pillars and the door skin because of how the H/T is built and assembled onto the car.

You should be fine making these adjustments and not damaging the H/T or glass as long as you aren't torqueing the H/T into position.

I know the H/T itself was pretty robust - I lifted it on the car myself by squatting under the center of it, so it isn't just going shatter from looking at it wrong

Also, if you can post up some pics of your problem alignment/gaps.

[Wageslave]

Ok, definitely loosen all the bolts and see what corrections you can make with the adjustments. Note, how the back of the H/T sits will also affect the alignment of the front. I think you are always have some gap between the pillars and the door skin because of how the H/T is built and assembled onto the car.

You should be fine making these adjustments and not damaging the H/T or glass as long as you aren't torqueing the H/T into position.

I know the H/T itself was pretty robust - I lifted it on the car myself by squatting under the center of it, so it isn't just going shatter from looking at it wrong

Also, if you can post up some pics of your problem alignment/gaps.

I'll get some pics tomorrow. I pm'd AZPete, I'll see what he has to say as well
Thanks again mike

[AZPete]

Slave, first, since you wrote "desperate" - go get a beer. It's not a perfect world and the perfect car has not yet been built. Not by any person or any company.
If you start comparing exact measurements on one side to the other you'll need a martini or three, so treat each side separately to make the doors/hard top/side sails/hood all fit as best as possible.

What Mikeb75 wrote is all correct except there is a more recent manual update, rev-Q. Call FFR and ask to download the Q update, if you don't already have it. Don't expect this manual to solve everything because the 818 is still very new and we are all pioneers.

I can try to help but I'm not sure what you are talking about because you didn't write which side is which problem. Can you detail the left (driver) side regarding A Pillar, B pillar, etc.? Then let's tackle the right side. Each is different but with the same goal of good gaps and smoothly functioning doors and windows. On my coupe I had big gaps at the bottom of both A pillars at first but then the interior door panels added a piece onto the door top so the gap on the right side was good but the left side was crimped. I had to shave the left A pillar and adjust the left door. You've got the Subaru mirrors which fill much of that gap. On the right side I had to trim the B pillar to get the door to fit. Yours may be different but there are solutions. Which side is which problem?

[Wageslave]

AZPete
Good advice but I don't drink beer, maybe a vodka or three.
I don't expect perfection but I'd like it a bit closer than a 1/2 inch difference from side to side. The difference also shows up in the reveal that surrounds the wiper pan. The pass side has a 1/2 inch gap that would even out by dropping the drivers side.
All my issues are on the drivers side, both the gap at the B pillar and A pillar. My main concern is racking the roof and damaging the windshield.
Do you think the roof will drop down with the dash installed? Where else does the roof attach, it's hard to tell. That's why I was hoping the manual would revel something I can't see

[ben1272]

Try to look at this process as fun, if you can. It can be brought into alignment and you will eventually succeed. The car is a stunner, especially the coupe, and you will be glad you persisted. You will also have a great feeling of accomplishment when it is to your liking and you will be that much more familiar with the car! I hope you arent as desperate as you sound in your original post! You have a beautiful car, enjoy it and be happy!

[Wageslave]

The desperation stemmed from my wife freaking out about buying something that she thought should have been in better shape. I just need to get this fixed. I want to get the car registered and licensed so I can get back to work on my Hudson. It's been a long time in coming and it's ready for body and paint, just waiting on warm weather. I built it from the ground up, fabbed frame, bottom 8 inches of the body was rusted off, no nos or junkyard parts around. had to do it all

[AZPete]

Some photos would be useful to me and others to see the problem. Is this what you are calling the "wiper pan"? And what is the "reveal" that surrounds it? This photo shows that I've cut away parts to install wipers and your wipers are different, as is the color.
Apron or Pan.jpg

[Wageslave]

No, there's a pan, surround dunno what else to call it, that the wiper shafts stick through, they cover the motor and arms I believe

[RM1SepEx]

Factory five wipers that cut out a big portion of the hood??

[Wageslave]

Yes, there's a molding that finishes the cutout and sets on the "pan"

[RM1SepEx]

Most of us refused to hack up a perfectly good hood for such a wiper solution. I use a single wiper

P1130449.JPGP1130448.JPGP1130447.JPGP1130444.JPGP1130443.JPGDani 818.jpg

[idf]

Yes, there's a molding that finishes the cutout and sets on the "pan"

I would not worry about the positioning of the wiper pan or cowl trim until you have established the final position of your windshield and hood. Once that is done the wiper pan can easily be repositioned if necessary and the cowl piece trimmed to match. I can send you the FFR wiper installation instructions if that would help to understand the original installation.

[Wageslave]

Wish I'd have had that option, the previous owner did that work.
I read several threads on the monowiper, it looked like a great mod.

[Wageslave]

I loosened all the roof attachments this am. The drivers side dropped about an 1/8 on it's own and stopped. I tried to gently pull it down and it wouldn't budge any further. The previous owner has already installed the full firewall with the window section and it is stopping the roof from dropping any more than it did. I don't feel like pulling the seats and dropping that top section of firewall right now so I'm backing away from the roof for now and will finish remounting the doors and engine cover. Right now I want to get the car registered so I'm going to work on the must do things.
I know one thing for sure, the Kirkey racing seats are history as soon as I find an alternative so if anyone knows of someone looking for seats their for sale. Brand new hardly ever been sat on.

[Wageslave]

I would not worry about the positioning of the wiper pan or cowl trim until you have established the final position of your windshield and hood. Once that is done the wiper pan can easily be repositioned if necessary and the cowl piece trimmed to match. I can send you the FFR wiper installation instructions if that would help to understand the original installation.

The new Q manual upgrade I just got from FFR has the wiper install in it.
Oh and thanks for the input idf, everyone has been great on the forum

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I know one thing for sure, the Kirkey racing seats are history as soon as I find an alternative so if anyone knows of someone looking for seats their for sale. Brand new hardly ever been sat on.

I need 2 for my second car. I used Kirkey# 47900 18" 15 deg intermediate road race in my first car. What model# do you have?
https://www.kirkeyracing.com/product...BACK-ROAD-RACE
Bob

[AZPete]

I understand your priority of getting licensed before tackling the hardtop fit but when you remove the seats there is an easy way to make the interior window wall adjustable. When you get to that point I'll try to help but I see you are pretty good at finding solutions and fabbing stuff on your Hudson. What state do you live in and what does the DMV require?

[Wageslave]

I understand your priority of getting licensed before tackling the hardtop fit but when you remove the seats there is an easy way to make the interior window wall adjustable. When you get to that point I'll try to help but I see you are pretty good at finding solutions and fabbing stuff on your Hudson. What state do you live in and what does the DMV require?

Pete,
I learned more than I ever wanted to know about metal shaping doing the Hudson unfortunately most of it is lost on the coupe. Any help you can provide on the window panel will be greatly appreciated, there is no substitute for experience.

I'm in Florida, the requirements are pretty basic and we don't have yearly inspections so that is a plus.

[AZPete]

Mike, regarding the window panel I think it's better to make it adjustable so that after you have the hard top as you like it you can fit the window panel up to it. The manual has you using 2 people, a level and bolting it to the seat belt mounts, but . . .
First, my rear firewall (behind the seats) is fastened by 5 rivnuts across the top - the arrow in this photo is one of the bolts that go into a rivnut. If yours is riveted you can drill out and bolt. Next, I drilled 5 1/4-inch holes in the bottom of the window panel spaced to match the 5 bolts in the top of the firewall, and then elongated the holes in the window panel. Now the window panel fits under the top of the firewall and you can raise the window panel up to tightly meet the ceiling, then tighten the rivnut bolts. Finally, drill the 2 holes for your seatbelt mounts and bolt the belts over the window panel.
firewall window.jpg

[Wageslave]

I need 2 for my second car. I used Kirkey# 47900 18" 15 deg intermediate road race in my first car. What model# do you have?
https://www.kirkeyracing.com/product...BACK-ROAD-RACE
Bob

Bob,
The seats are the ones that FFR sells, they are model # 47500 16" intermediate.
If your interested let me know

[Wageslave]

Mike, regarding the window panel I think it's better to make it adjustable so that after you have the hard top as you like it you can fit the window panel up to it. The manual has you using 2 people, a level and bolting it to the seat belt mounts, but . . .
First, my rear firewall (behind the seats) is fastened by 5 rivnuts across the top - the arrow in this photo is one of the bolts that go into a rivnut. If yours is riveted you can drill out and bolt. Next, I drilled 5 1/4-inch holes in the bottom of the window panel spaced to match the 5 bolts in the top of the firewall, and then elongated the holes in the window panel. Now the window panel fits under the top of the firewall and you can raise the window panel up to tightly meet the ceiling, then tighten the rivnut bolts. Finally, drill the 2 holes for your seatbelt mounts and bolt the belts over the window panel.
firewall window.jpg

Wow Pete!!, you've done a lot to make your coupe interior look factory finished. Are there more interior pics on your build thread?
You instructions sound simple enough, I already have a rivnut tool, the rest seems fairly straight forward
Thanks again Pete

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob,
The seats are the ones that FFR sells, they are model # 47500 16" intermediate.
If your interested let me know

Sorry, my rear end won't fit in a 16" seat.
Bob

[Wageslave]

No problem Bob. if you know of anyone looking for seats send them my way

Thanks