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Thread: Coyote Shift Issues with AODE

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Coyote Shift Issues with AODE

    I thought I should update guys with Coyote and AODE (4R70) with PCS Simple Shift transmissions. I have been battling erratic speedo indications and of course related shift problems.
    I have talked with a lot of techs about this and the fix for erratic speedo indications is a dedicated ground to the speedo from the frame, I have a lot of grounds going to the brake master cylinder support structure and that is where I got a new ground for the speedo. I now have only an erratic spike of the speedo needle as I start to roll away once above 10 mph it is now stable. The next thing I will do is the same ground will be used to ground the speedo generator at the trans (old speedo drive). I've been told this should address the last of the speedo troubles.

    The transmission is now shifting correctly but delayed way up the speed range, my first upshift is over 20 mph, the status lights on the controller show no error codes now. I called FFR and Tony has built one of these combos for himself and said the only fix is to replace the torque convertor, the one shipped by Performance Automatic is around a 2000 stall, he said what is needed is 3000 - 3200 rpm stall because the car is too light and the convertor supplied locks up way to early for the transmission to properly sense when to upshift.

    So today I have placed an order for a 10 inch convertor from Road Runner Convertors in AZ, it should be here next week, so now I have to remove the interior and pull the trans cover off to get the transmission back far enough to R&R the convertor.

    I will post an update when this is done to see how it works out, I wish I have known this about 3 years ago when I started this project January 2014.

  2. #2
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    I faced similar issues with my simple little 351w and aod. Tony told me same thing. I have not swapped the tc but will in the future. Nuff said it would great if FFR had a simple database of requirements to make this stuff work as advertised. How much pain would be eliminated and how much more satisfied would their customers be if they had the requirements up front.

  3. #3
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    I have installed the new 10 inch converter and it has changed the drivability to the plus side, its much easier to hold in gear with light touch on the brake pedal. The transmission lift was great with my car lift, I could stand under the car and with slight lowering of the main lift I got the trans up and back enough to remove the old converter. My new extended drain pan saved most of the oil from going all over the floor.
    Now I have to find out why the upshift is still delayed to about 25 mph for the 1-2 shift even with very light throttle. I think I have found the culprit, it's me I did not connect the output speed sensor port on the transmission because the harness supplied was not long enough, instead I connected it in parallel with the speedo output generator because there was a double connector there and it fit perfectly using the Y type of connection supplied.
    So I'm going to have to remove the interior again to get to the connectors on the left side rear of the transmission and extend the wiring and see it the connector supplied is correct. I didn't think it was the right one even after my last episode when changing the converter.

  4. #4
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    Hi Don! I've been waiting for results of your converter swap because I'm running a 4R70W "Street Smart" setup from Performance Automatic. If you think the 10 inch converter change from "Road Runner Converters" is worth doing, I'll go ahead and order one before I do the final install of the engine and trans! Any part number and/or contact person info you could provide would be much appreciated.
    Thanks!
    Bruce

  5. #5
    Senior Member R Thomas's Avatar
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    I read this because I am looking at a similar setup. IMO and I do mean OPINION I don't see why Performance Automatic wouldn't supply a high stall converter if you were to indicate it was needed. When I arrive at that point I'll make sure to ask. Thanks for the other info.

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    I got the shift issue fixed last night, it was my bad, PA sends two Y leads to interface the trans speed output to the PCS controller, one is labelled 1998+ and the main harness has the same label (1998+) so I deducted that would be the one to use. However it would not connect to the transmission, I paralleled it to get the speedo output instead, and when you look at the Y it can connect both ends perfectly. That was the error, after talking with their tech (who was great) I looked around and found a box I put away with little harness items, in there I found another Y connector that was labelled 2008+. I tried it and it snapped into place on the trans speed output port, then I isolated it to the trans only and sent the speedo output direct to the speedo. Voila! The trans shifts perfectly! It turns out that PA can use 2 different connectors on their package they ship.
    I'm glad I put the 10 inch converter in place of the original supplied because of the greatly reduced pedal effort to hold the car when in gear without power brakes. Now I'm going to reassemble the interior and go for a quick road test, on the lift last night the trans acted more like a stock one, it upshifted 1-2 before 20 mph and at 3000 it was fully shifted with convertor locked and the speedo was close to 100 mph, it acts completely different.
    I was very naïve about ordering items like the trans, I saw an ad for a complete package for the Coyote and placed the order, now you guys can benefit from my experience, make sure you get a 10 inch convertor with 3200 minimum stall, you could go to 3500 I'm told. The controller is very adjustable, the shift firmness can be tweaked to what you want it to feel like down to silky smooth if you like, the convertor lock-up point is next for me to play with along with light throttle shift points and of course full throttle and rpm upshift and convertor lock-up. I'm really glad I didn't go manual, there is very little room for my size 12 feet with regular shoes, I think I will be wearing minimal sneakers. I had to modify the brake lever to get more space between the throttle and brake pedal. I have found the recommended FFR mods to the throttle don't work well, it is too short for smooth action, so I used the original supplied mechanical throttle pedal and bolted it to the electronic throttle to get the length back with better clearance from the trans tunnel.

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    I have driven the car a couple of times at speeds up to 40 mph and got it to lock the converter up, rpm drop is dramatic with the 3200 rpm stall, the car feels really slushy on acceleration and shifts are so smooth its hard to detect. I'm going to firm up the shift some more and see how I like it. The 1-2 shift happens about 10 mph with the light throttle set just into the - side of the setting. Now its time to get on the dyno and check leanness. Got my insurance binder today and found an ASE Certified inspector about 40 minutes away. Next week I will start down the final steps of getting plates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donshapansky View Post
    the car feels really slushy on acceleration
    A proper converter and stall speed should not feel slushy. My built AOD with custom 10" 2800 stall converter is downright snappy and takes very little brake pedal effort at idle with non power brakes.

  9. #9
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    Thanks Don! 'Really appreciate you sharing your experience.
    Bruce

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    I have had the car over to a dyno to check for lean condition etc. The shifting is now sorted out but the convertor lock point at 40 mph is a dramatic drop in rpm (2500 -1200) and the car is smooth at 75 mph with fuel economy. The dyno run showed 350 hp. at the rear wheels with 300 ft. lb. peak torque, the comments are that the hot air from the rad filling the intake is robbing probably 50 hp. I can see that the cowl being so tight is a draw back, it looks clean but I think it needs a scoop on the side cowl like the Ecoboost 33 had. FFR says it was a one off so good luck with that.Ecoboost 33 -2.jpg

    I'm quite challenged by the problems I'm having with power windows, squeaks and rattles, wind leaks at the doors/top. If I had it to do over I would go convertible top, no hood or side panels, no A/C. I would have been done a year ago with a lot more money in my pocket. I think now that a 2500 rpm stall would be a better application as street car, the idle is now 750 not 950 and that would make the convertor that I had more desirable.

  11. #11
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    I forgot to mention that I live in Texas so the ambient of 100F in summer drove me from the roadster, I thought the 33 with A/C was a way around a roadster that could be driven more months of the year. I was probably guilty of assuming the top was more integral with the body, it is not, it's an appearance item more than a utility item. I'm probably going to have to modify the doors again and ruin the paint to get the windows to seal correctly. Or go with a convertible top and live with what ever it offers for weather protection and forget the windows. I would still have to refinish the doors if I go that way. I could have a new GT350 right now for the same money with extra left to add a rear wing etc.

  12. #12
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    So Don,
    1. Are you saying that once the shift electrical hook-up was sorted out, you think the convertor that came with your trans would have been ok?

    2. Where are you "stashing" the trans controller in the car? I'm looking for ideas since once the adjustments are dialed in, the controller can be "put away", right?

    Thanks.
    Bruce

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    Bruce:
    Yes, I would stay with the original converter, I still may go back to it to get a more crisp response to throttle input. I used commercial heavy duty Velcro that pretty much covered the top of the module and stuck the other side of the Velcro to the heater/AC body above the passenger's feet, you can't see it and it stays where it is placed.

  14. #14
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    Don,
    Thanks much for the info!
    Bruce

  15. #15
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    Another related item to the Coyote/AODE 4R70W combo is the ECM on my engine (2014 Coyote) did not come down to a stable idle when rolling to a stop. The ECM needs to see a speed input from the transmission. Ford has a mod bulletin called Speed Dial that introduces a module to fix the problem, talking to the Ford tech and a Powertrain Control Solutions tech I used the Y harness provided that is connected to the trans. speed sensor. Sending the speed data from the trans speed sensor to the correct pins in the ECM eliminated the problem. The PDF is too large to add to the forum, you can send me a PM for the information.
    With more miles on the car (400 +) I changed my opinion of the high stall converter I installed (3200 rpm). The benefit is very little tire spin if you are rolling say at 20 mph, the car is directionally stable and is a bullet! I haven't tried a standing start yet but it seems like 0 - 60 is in the 3 second range. I think that low end torque is the trick for this type of car, combined with a loose converter makes for a very drivable combination. I can't imagine a stick car being able stay with it, I don't have the foot space for rapid clutch action. I tried a 30 - 100 mph burst and the impression is the engine stays close to 7000 with trans shifting in quick succession and a blink later the speedo is at 100 mph. Performance Automatic builds a good product and the support has been great!

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