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Thread: Dave Smith, opinion please

  1. #1
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    Dave Smith, opinion please

    Dave
    Your Gen 3 Daytona was stunning when I saw it at SEMA last year and your recent comment about that chassis being "under the next FF supercar"
    made me think about that label.
    So;
    In a general sense not speaking specifically about the GTM or the Daytona, in your opinion what criteria make something into a supercar?
    Examples; over 200 mph capable, holding 1G+ in the turns, 60-0 in under XX feet, 0-60 in under 3.5 sec. 0-100-0 in XX seconds etc.
    Is there a set of hard fast definitions or is it a subjective thing for you ?

    Thanks
    Dale Berry
    7L Hemi 33
    Last edited by myjones; 03-19-2017 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #2
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    Bumpity bump TTT

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    President, Factory Five Racing Dave Smith's Avatar
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    Hell of a question. Right up front I gotta apologize since I don't post on the forums regularly. Saw this and figured I'd answer, but there may be other questions I've overlooked and it's not for lack of concern, there's just so much time in the day.

    Regarding MY opinion on "Supercar" while technically all of our designs have extreme performance potential, I was referring to more of a GT car in line with a Ford GT, or in the case of a front engine supercar, something like an Aston Martin Vulcan/etc. So yes, mostly subjective, but capable of 200 mph is commonly considered a standard, a car more comfortable with a sweeping fast roadcourse than an autocross. Specifically I was referring to the fact that the GTM, as a mid-engine supercar (Low, wide, extreme in every way) has been a very big challenge for us. It is a remarkable car and each time I drive it, I say the same thing to myself, "Geez, I forgot how brutally fast this car is!".. I've pulled superbikes on the highway with my LS7 powered GTM!... Despite the love and passion the car evokes, it also requires quite a bit more technical support here at FFR and that cost can be extended to many areas of the car. The mid-engine radical design is more technically complex and one thing I'd like to do is use the new Gen 3 chassis (front engine/less complex) as the basis for a more modern version of the famous Daytona Coupe. At a minimum it could be seen as something like the Ford GR1 concept (not a copy but akin to), which was a modern version of the vintage Daytona Coupe.. Or it could be an extremely modern design of its own to compete with the front-engine supercars from Ferrari and Aston Martin, but one that would be a build-it-yourself American Factory Five.

    I hope that answers your questions. We'll be developing the chassis, suspension, brakes, aero and other bits on the Gen 3 Coupe on the track this year along with some unfinished business with the 818R. The multitude of opportunities for us at FFR are dizzying and my job is not just to pick the fun ones but also to pick the projects that make the most business sense against the backdrop of all of the other projects, our skills and team's development, the competition, the market, and a thousand other things that need to be considered. So far we've been able to strike a good balance and I'm not bragging but just stating the truth that our longevity as a company is a function of doing mostly the right things at the right time product-wise (sometimes against the advice of the "experts"). I'll take credit for that since it is one of my most important jobs and one that takes much of my time. Dave
    Last edited by Dave Smith; 03-20-2017 at 12:32 PM.
    Dave Smith, FFR 001
    President
    Factory Five Racing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post

    Regarding MY opinion on "Supercar" while technically all of our designs have extreme performance potential, I was referring to more of a GT car in line with a Ford GT, or in the case of a front engine supercar, something like an Aston Martin Vulcan/etc. So yes, mostly subjective, but capable of 200 mph is commonly considered a standard, a car more comfortable with a sweeping fast roadcourse than an autocross. Specifically I was referring to the fact that the GTM, as a mid-engine supercar (Low, wide, extreme in every way) has been a very big challenge for us. It is a remarkable car and each time I drive it, I say the same thing to myself, "Geez, I forgot how brutally fast this car is!".. I've pulled superbikes on the highway with my LS7 powered GTM!... Despite the love and passion the car evokes, it also requires quite a bit more technical support here at FFR and that cost can be extended to many areas of the car. The mid-engine radical design is more technically complex and one thing I'd like to do is use the new Gen 3 chassis (front engine/less complex) as the basis for a more modern version of the famous Daytona Coupe. At a minimum it could be seen as something like the Ford GR1 concept (not a copy but akin to), which was a modern version of the vintage Daytona Coupe.. Or it could be an extremely modern design of its own to compete with the front-engine supercars from Ferrari and Aston Martin, but one that would be a build-it-yourself American Factory Five.
    Interesting that you said all of that Dave. The idea behind the GTO design that I have been working on from time to time is more of a modern twist on the 65 Coupe, but at the same time still retains that nostalgic look and fell. Check out my thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post159574 Now of course some of that has changed since you came out with the new gen3.

    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 03-23-2017 at 06:56 PM.

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    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    I'd Love To See A GTO Style Car Draped Over The New Daytona Chassis!
    FFR has the MK-4 and FIA that share a platform soooooooooooooooooooooo:
    Anything that Dave & His Band Of Bandits Produce Will Be Road Warrior Ready!

  6. #6
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Hair on fire
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    Last edited by flynntuna; 03-20-2017 at 01:32 PM.

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    Senior Member TouchStone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynntuna View Post
    Hair on fire
    Yes please!
    818S Chassis #288 2.5L 323hp
    Ordered: 9/19/14 Received Kit: 11/2/14 First Start: 5/31/15 First Drive: 6/7/15 Registered: 3/10/2016 Completed: 2/10/2017
    Status: Complete Build Thread

  8. #8
    Thanks Dave!! Interesting Scalp fire in progress. Develop slow enough to be thorough, fast enough to be competitive, and with eyes open. 3P's of patience, perseverance, and just the right amount of PRESSURE!! Give us a chassis with legs and a body with curves...we'll add the drive train and driver.

  9. #9
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    DAVE SMITH! I can't wait! I'm already saving up for this!


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


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    Dave Smith
    Thanks for the quick reply, I thought if you happened to see my post you would have an interesting response. Well said;
    I could tell from your answer that this is something you have been considering for awhile and the Gen 3 gives you the platform to push the envelope with an American style front engine platform. The latest versions of forced induction LS and Coyotes are both common and well up to the task of pushing those limits.

    The Aero work, likely wind tunnel driven will be fun to watch and I'm sure the final product will kill most anything else on the track at a much lower cost. I was jokingly calling it a Datonamera concept in another post because as customers we want all the above and a back seat for the family
    Dale Berry
    Last edited by myjones; 03-20-2017 at 05:25 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    DAVE SMITH! I can't wait! I'm already saving up for this!

    This guy DEFINITELY knows something..... :P

  12. #12
    Senior Member Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    DAVE SMITH! I can't wait! I'm already saving up for this!

    Hey, you stole my line!! I am really hoping Mr Smith has something really special up his sleeve in a year or two. I'll put in my 2 cents: here's hoping for gull wing doors!!
    Jazzman
    MKIV "Flip Top" Roadster Ordered July 30, 2015. Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec T600, IRS w. 3.55 final, 18" Hallibrands, dual rollbars, custom Zebrawood Dash
    Delivered November 25, 2015, First Start December 24, 2016, First Go Cart, January 6, 2017
    Build Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
    I'll put in my 2 cents: here's hoping for gull wing doors!!
    Jazzy
    You'll probably just glass them shut and make it a clamshell body

    All kidding aside;
    It would be seriously fun to watch you do another build in your own special style.
    Dale
    Hemi33

  14. #14
    Just my 2 cents... Go Vulcan. Not a copy but a swoopy modern GT of your own design. (Smooth fender/hood lines with edgy details) Hire an outside designer for the exterior/interior. Use quality parts for the interior and exterior details. Make a new modern chassis with independent rear suspension. Do the chassis AND THE BODY in CAD. Include full suspension with quality adjustable coilovers that are properly matched to the car. Take your time and sell it only when the details and kinks are worked out. Sell it for considerably more than the kits you offer now, similar to RCR, $40k or so. The money saved on the body being right to begin with will pay for the difference in the kit cost for the customer. In conclusion, something someone could build with minimal fabrication and little bodywork and get OEM or near quality. That can't be too hard...
    Last edited by carbon fiber; 03-21-2017 at 08:08 AM.

  15. #15
    President, Factory Five Racing Dave Smith's Avatar
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    Let me just ramble here…

    These are questions that involve a ton of variables and are sorta like playing chess where individual moves can change the entire game. The logic behind the Coupe chassis move to a modern spaceframe would not have been fully worthwhile but for some happy parallel vectors. The tooling has always been underutilized as the coupe is a small volume model, so another car (sooner or later) from the shared chassis made sense. The older gen 1-2 Coupe tooling needed significant upgrades anyway and similar efforts could be spent on an all-new chassis vs. the same vintage design. The CAD technology on the chassis and suspension had also come so far that it was hard not to use it with an all-new and much more capable design. Also we learned with the Hot Rod (which is a modern spaceframe chassis with modern suspension rather than a vintage replica ladder frame) that a good percentage of our customers would prefer to forgo “originality” in the chassis if it meant significantly better performance and safety.

    Competing for valuable resources, the complexity of the GTM combined with our learning on the track with front-engine designs made sense to migrate in the gen 3 Coupe direction. The GTM needs a refresh and we’ve been exploring that option/costing concurrently. We still have the flexibility to go in opposite directions everything from discontinuing the GTM outright (not my pick as I do love the car) to maintenance of the existing design, to a body re-design (and maybe more) since modern shapes require more of this evolution to stay relevant than vintage designs which are more replicas. Each product line has its own life-cycle and trajectory. The Hot Rod, I think, has the most room to grow and market share to capture and so merits the investments of a steel-body after already getting the new IRS. A pick-up version is in the works with proper doors and cab with shared chassis but modified for the rear bed. These changes and investments make sense as the hot rod market is larger and our market share is small but growing. We’ve looked beyond “build-it-yourself” designs to things like a tri-five chassis (some folks have seen the 56 Chevy on the lift), trailers, and now we are a Ford Performance dealer, which was part of another product path involving completed cars built under the new SEMA legislation for the purposes of serving an export market with complete VIN numbered and FMVSS compliant Mk4’s and 33 Hot Rods. This plan is a longer term one that has some big investments required. We’ve secured property for this facility as of last fall but the timing of this entire endeavor is not firm.

    In addition to the logical product decisions, I also have to look at things that matter because they matter. There is no way to fully separate the “because it’s fun and we love cars” factor. At some level, all of this is supported and even relies upon that stoke of WANTING to build it better, faster, stronger. Lastly, and maybe I’m actually getting older here, there is part of me that wants to do things because of ego. I want people to see how good Jim and Jesper and our team is with new designs and the modern Coupe version is just one such an opportunity to shine the light on this capability. But there’s so much more. I want this company to continue to make a difference, to build on the legacy we’ve helped to create with the collaboration of our customers and friends. What we DO matters in that it will determine how we are remembered and the nature of our legacy. One of the biggest reasons that I bought out my partner was that he never agreed with me on these “intangibles”. To him it was always just about dollars. To me, while I want to make money for sure, the way in which we make it is every bit as important. I selfishly want to look back and know that as a company, we left the motorsports community better than we found it. I want our company and efforts to build much more than cars and profits. I do want Factory Five to become one of the most iconic American Motorsports company.

    I guess I’m saying that in all of these product decisions is this unquantifiable element of doing the right things for the right reasons. Dan Gurney taught me to make complex jobs simple by remembering what’s important. He said, “A race car driver’s job is to get to the finish line before the other guy”. That requires a ton of things to go right… preparation, training, practice, engineering, crew, luck, etc. but at the end of the day, you gotta get across the finish line ahead of the other guy. Simple enough. My job is to build better, faster and safer cars than anyone else and making the most money wasn’t part of that topic sentence. Frankly, if we do our jobs, we’ll always be able to pay the bills.

    I’m proud as heck of the company and the obstacles we’ve overcome. I’m proud of the skills we’ve built and mostly, I’m so stoked and excited about the road ahead. It will not be a path I can successfully chart alone. As has been the case since day one, we are, as a company, so uniquely dependent upon you guys to build the kits that we designed into cars that become part of a story. That story and that collaboration is the thing that makes all the difference. I am constantly surprising our partner companies by doing things that no-one else does for them. I remind them that my entire business is predicated on the work of, and the collaboration with our customers. We’ve extended that philosophy to our partner companies and we have some of the strongest and closest relationships with them as a result.

    For now, while the goals are clear, the work isn’t even halfway done. Every day it is a long, tough, (and fun) job. I’m doing my best to ensure that we stay on target with product decisions that make sense and continue our momentum. I deeply appreciate the advice and suggestions along the way and also the time you took to read if you got this far!

    Note: I mentioned meeting Dan Gurney. Well, spending half a day with the man was one of the greatest experiences of my life. When I asked him who he thought was the greatest race car driver of all-time (He has my vote), he didn’t hesitate. He said “Davie MacDonald was the greatest natural race car driver of all time.” I don’t know why I shared this, but it seemed wrong not to repeat. Meeting Dan Gurney and gaining from his experience. THAT is just one of the many intangibles that running this company has given me.
    Last edited by Dave Smith; 03-21-2017 at 09:42 AM.
    Dave Smith, FFR 001
    President
    Factory Five Racing

  16. #16
    Dave, We appreciate the ramble. With the CAD advances, 3D scanners and printers, and global sourcing capabilities I find myself unable to keep up. I wonder about making a leap to skip a stage, but, the only real way to stay competitive IMHO is to build a modular chassis, that can accept multiple bodies and drivelines. I have yet to get serious about this with the 33, but obviously we have all thought about what different bodies could be adapted to the chassis, steel or fiberglass. With some minor tweaks the back half of the Daytona could accept some interesting styles. I would be the guy that looks for a 56 Coronet or Fairlane body to put on a tri 5 chassis with a monster big block.
    For the moment, I would agree with your outlook for the 33.
    "The Hot Rod, I think, has the most room to grow and market share to capture and so merits the investments of a steel-body after already getting the new IRS."

    Just a different nose and a 5 window hard top make this one look like a different car. I am looking passively at something like a Dennis Carpenter late 30's steel body or a completely one off, but that's for another day.

    Most of all thanks for listening to the guys on this forum. You really have 2 markets... Racers and customizers. which are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

    Brian

  17. #17
    2017-Aston-Martin-Vulcan-.jpgLooks like a custom racer to me... mmmmmmmmm...2016-Aston-Martin-Vulcan-side-profile-in-motion-02.jpg I feel that's the great part about FFR cars. They're both. The Vulcan is truly Hair On Fire.
    Last edited by carbon fiber; 03-21-2017 at 10:32 AM.

  18. #18
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Dave,

    1. We Get To Build Our Dreams Thanks To You & Your Team!
    2. You have no idea how much your customer's appreciate Factory Five Racing!
    3. If you watch the last 25-30 seconds of the attached video, it is what I think of the folks on this forum, your company and your entire team:

    https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

    Steve

    (PS: We hope to order Daytona in a few years after our last child gets through college.)
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 03-21-2017 at 01:17 PM.

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    What set FFR apart from the others was the base of PERFORMANCE. I don't race but wanted road race base with the body that would go with my vision.
    THANKS

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    Quote Originally Posted by erlihemi View Post
    Dave, We appreciate the ramble. For the moment, I would agree with your outlook for the 33.
    "The Hot Rod, I think, has the most room to grow and market share to capture and so merits the investments of a steel-body after already getting the new IRS."
    Just a different nose and a 5 window hard top make this one look like a different car.
    Brian
    Brian
    Amen on the ramble, we just learned that a 33 pick-up is in the works ( I have been prodding for this for 4 years) and it looks like it might be on a GenII 33 chassis.
    Dave is going to make us all (serial builders), that is the new flavor of Kool-Aid at Factory Five ;>)
    The other things you mentioned above are very relevant. IF they went a bit wider on the grille like the Plymouth those extra couple inches would ease a lot of strain
    on making it all fit without losing the pinch nose design. The pick-up and the 5 window don't need a roadster option IMO so they could have an integral roll cage as
    part of a new stiffer chassis. The measures that made the Daytona better space wise, and stiffer to boot all could be rolled into the Gen II 33 builds.

    Dave S.
    You have every right to be proud of what you and the crew have accomplished. You have also created a lot of jobs as a result of making those sound decisions.
    This would be a good time to send a questionnaire to every 33HR buyer in your customer base, you don't have to take the feedback but some of it may surprise you.
    These quotes seem to fit any FF kit> "It's like putting racing stripes on a street car, It ain't bragging if you back it up."
    Sorry I don't recall who said it first or exactly how it was stated.

    Dale Berry
    7liter Hemi 33

  21. #21
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    DAVE SMITH! I can't wait! I'm already saving up for this!

    So the new car will fit fellows that are far from vertically challenged if Mr. Hodgkins is already starting save up for his next project.
    Maybe we will be able to build a Factory Five for my brother who is of similar stature!

  22. #22
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    Not sure if should elaborate on the 33 pickup that Dave Smith mentioned or not. Just feel like after all these years that I am talking and posting to a wall or just pissing in the wind. So what ever FFR does is fine with me

    David

  23. #23
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Now how do I tell the CFO (my wife) that the money for the kitchen remodel and new carpet for the bedrooms will be reassigned to a 33 pickup and a Datonamera?

  24. #24
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynntuna View Post
    Now how do I tell the CFO (my wife) that the money for the kitchen remodel and new carpet for the bedrooms will be reassigned to a 33 pickup and a Datonamera?
    When you find out the answer, tell us all if you don't mind!

  25. #25
    [QUOTE=Vman7;272485]Not sure if should elaborate on the 33 pickup that Dave Smith mentioned or not. Just feel like after all these years that I am talking and posting to a wall or just pissing in the wind. So what ever FFR does is fine with me
    Vman, capital momentum takes time, as does intellectual momentum. The train seems to be rolling now
    When I hear pickup , I immediately jump to Vicky or panel body. That leads to Plymouth panel bodies with big Hemis ( no more baby Desoto Dale). Go Dad wants a Chevy panel with an LSX. God forbid one of us buys a stage 1 kit and puts somebody else's body on it!
    Then I look at the new Daytona and the wing and start having crazy thoughts of widening the track a little and creating a viperesque ACR twin turbo.

    So Dave has achieved much and is giving us modular platforms to be creative with. And now I must sell my bulldozer to keep the CFO happy.

  26. #26
    Senior Member R Thomas's Avatar
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    I would like to say thanks to Dave and his crew for all the effort they put into getting us these wonderful toys. So what the next release for the company is hope its well received and profitable so they can make even more fun stuff for us.

  27. #27
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    [QUOTE=erlihemi;272498]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vman7 View Post
    Not sure if should elaborate on the 33 pickup that Dave Smith mentioned or not. Just feel like after all these years that I am talking and posting to a wall or just pissing in the wind. So what ever FFR does is fine with me
    Vman, capital momentum takes time, as does intellectual momentum. The train seems to be rolling now
    When I hear pickup , I immediately jump to Vicky or panel body. That leads to Plymouth panel bodies with big Hemis ( no more baby Desoto Dale). Go Dad wants a Chevy panel with an LSX. God forbid one of us buys a stage 1 kit and puts somebody else's body on it!
    Then I look at the new Daytona and the wing and start having crazy thoughts of widening the track a little and creating a viperesque ACR twin turbo.

    So Dave has achieved much and is giving us modular platforms to be creative with. And now I must sell my bulldozer to keep the CFO happy.
    I get all that and understand all of what FFR has accomplished over the years, and very well done I might add! Like I said not sure if I really desire to elaborate about the 33 pickup that FFR is working on, for one this isn't the thread to do it in and over time I just feel I am inconsequential when it comes to design ideas, I'll leave it at that. This is Dale's thread.

    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 03-21-2017 at 08:37 PM.

  28. #28
    Dave... Thank You for both open posts in this forum. You are truly the CEO and President of FFR. An eye to the past and the other to the future. Your past growing pains are your heartbeat to the future. I first borrowed a catalogue of FFR in 1998 from a friend and never new such a car was available in a kit. For two years I researched all of the other kits available and decided on your Mark 1 at the time. The reason was it would be your kit to start but how I envisioned it in the end. When I did order my Roadster it was at a time when the Mark11 was being introduced and my order included some of the upgrades but not all. When I picked up my order at Wareham I still remember walking around the Coupe kits waiting for pick-up and thinking should have gotten the Coupe. My Three sons ages 6 to 11 all helped with building the Roadster and using the rivet gun was a big thrill. My Roadster has been to all FFR Open Houses but maybe two because of weather since then. In the winter of 2009 I had recently lost an eye due to health reasons and was released from the hospital 2 weeks before the Spring Open House. My family new how much it meant for me to go and was given permission to drive from NY. I met up with 2 other Roadsters at 4:00AM along the Long Is. Expwy. and we cruised to Wareham. Long story short I ordered the Coupe in 2013 and currently building at this time on weekends only, truly a labor of love. I would like to say I was taken back a bit by the beauty and new lines of the Gen 3 Coupe and since I'm still building a Gen2 Coupe. I am thrilled by the thought of the Next Gen 4 Coupe[GR1 Concept] and will hope to order when available. I also agree with a previous post here, charge a little more and improve on the body shell to be more like the 818 body. That alone could be a big saving to builders by not relying on yourself or a body shop to smooth the body out. I have always remembered from one of your first VCR's that "Respect among builders is by your Craftsmanship". It is the company you keep that will carry you forward! Regards FFR3296

  29. #29
    Great response Dave. As always. I don't know if it's just me but the steps you took with 818, to create the 818- seemed to take you guys to the next level. I love the idea of the next body to succeed on the 65 Gen3 chassis. If it looks anything like the Vulcan it will be amazing. Can't wait to see it.
    www.33machine.com

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by carbon fiber View Post
    Just my 2 cents... Go Vulcan. Not a copy but a swoopy modern GT of your own design. (Smooth fender/hood lines with edgy details) Hire an outside designer for the exterior/interior. Use quality parts for the interior and exterior details. Make a new modern chassis with independent rear suspension. Do the chassis AND THE BODY in CAD. Include full suspension with quality adjustable coilovers that are properly matched to the car. Take your time and sell it only when the details and kinks are worked out. Sell it for considerably more than the kits you offer now, similar to RCR, $40k or so. The money saved on the body being right to begin with will pay for the difference in the kit cost for the customer. In conclusion, something someone could build with minimal fabrication and little bodywork and get OEM or near quality. That can't be too hard...
    Yeah, I mean how hard can it be??? LOL. Come Dave.... tell us!
    www.33machine.com

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vman7 View Post
    I get all that and understand all of what FFR has accomplished over the years, and very well done I might add! Like I said not sure if I really desire to elaborate about the 33 pickup that FFR is working on, for one this isn't the thread to do it in and over time I just feel I am inconsequential when it comes to design ideas, I'll leave it at that. This is Dale's thread. David
    David V
    You are part of the fabric of the FF community;
    What you bring to the mix is important to me because you dare to dream and you know how/have the skills to show me the concepts that are in your mind. That spurs me to try newer, bigger things, just like the products that FF creates do.
    In terms of this being my thread, it's really Dave's thread where I gave him a platform, and a poke, to share his thoughts on a big picture scale and he stepped up and shared a lot of what he dares to dream about and that gets us all stoked again. Dave just sold a lot of future product by sharing his thoughts and inspiring ours.
    It's also everyone's thread because those ramblings start the next conversation and that was part of my goal as well.
    Dale Berry
    Last edited by myjones; 03-22-2017 at 02:17 PM.

  32. #32
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    https://www.bing.com/images/search?<...ar&FORM=IQFRML

    That concept is from over 10 years ago and is still very relevant. IMO

    That is the concept that had me stoked and in hindsight is a lot like the Daytona, shape wise. It was also a car meant to share an existing platform, the Viper, and use an existing motor, the new Hemi, so it shares a lot of the goals Dave mentioned above. In the end it was thought to steal too much market share from the Viper and having something other than the V10 in that chassis really bothered their Viper owners club members.
    Dale
    Last edited by myjones; 03-22-2017 at 02:19 PM.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ehansen007 View Post
    Yeah, I mean how hard can it be??? LOL. Come Dave.... tell us!
    slccanada2.jpg There are gelcoat/fiberglass bodies available now that can be sanded/buffed to finish instead of paint. The quality is that good. It's not impossible. There's no way I could do that with my GTM or an 818. (Yeah, I'll wait while you search for one!!! LOL.) Issues with symmetry/panel fitment/panel quality will not let this happen on either the GTM or 818. Lots of people I've talked to are scared off by the amount of bodywork. Having to find someone they trust to do the bodywork right without paying a fortune is difficult at best. Having this "right" from the start makes the kit much more attractive to buyers. Small volume manufacturing is getting closer to OEM by the second. There are companies offering quality like I'm talking about right now. I'd like to see FFR continue to evolve to not just more models but higher-quality fitment as well. Honestly, with the tech advances out there now, it's a requirement. As for the styling, I'm not a fan of the GR1. It's blocky style looks dated, and frankly, like it's trying too hard to be cool... I think there's a market for an original swoopy styled GT now, you can see the trend spreading through the auto industry. (Mercedes Vision Concept / Aston Martin Vulcan / Mazda RX Vision)2013-Los-Angeles-Auto-Show-Mercedes-Benz-AMG-Vision-GT-Concept-Debut.jpg2017-Aston-Martin-Vulcan-.jpgmazda-rx-vision-concept_100531888_l.jpg
    Last edited by carbon fiber; 03-23-2017 at 09:14 AM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by myjones View Post
    David V
    You are part of the fabric of the FF community;
    What you bring to the mix is important to me because you dare to dream and you know how/have the skills to show me the concepts that are in your mind. That spurs me to try newer, bigger things, just like the products that FF creates do.
    In terms of this being my thread, it's really Dave's thread where I gave him a platform, and a poke, to share his thoughts on a big picture scale and he stepped up and shared a lot of what he dares to dream about and that gets us all stoked again. Dave just sold a lot of future product by sharing his thoughts and inspiring ours.
    It's also everyone's thread because those ramblings start the next conversation and that was part of my goal as well.
    Dale Berry
    Thanks Dale I would have to say that I may have really only influenced around a dozen people, if that. FFR very very little if at all. I would call that inconsequential. Dale your right it is more of Dave Smith's thread now that I really think about it.

    As far as the hot rod market, in this case around the 33 Ford era. I know that really well mostly because of my interest and research etc. since the mid '70s. It is a huge market when it comes to old cars below 1969 cars. A lot of competition, but if well planned out and well executed a company can be competitive. How well FFR knows that market I don't know. All I know is that I talked a lot about the 33 stuff and laid out a bunch of things that I would hope would help be more in that direction.

    The main reason I didn't want to elaborate on the 33 that much was so this thread wouldn't get off subject and what Dave Smith said would end up getting lost. What Dave Smith said is not only exciting, but important about FFR and the insight and direction that they are going. I really didn't desire for that to get lost.

    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 03-22-2017 at 03:07 PM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vman7 View Post
    Thanks Dale The main reason I didn't want to elaborate on the 33 that much was so this thread wouldn't get off subject and what Dave Smith said would end up getting lost. What Dave Smith said is not only exciting, but important about FFR and the insight and direction that they are going. I really didn't desire for that to get lost. David
    David
    I agree fully with the above and am thrilled that we got a glimpse of some of what Dave has up his sleeve. The buzz created by his comments about the new supercar and the future of expanding the 33 line are exciting enough to become a topic at the HB show and the open house. Neither of which I can attend this year because my parts fund is taking a hit on the custom bits I can't seem to do without. I will get a chance to chat face to face with them at SEMA again though and I look forward to that trip.
    Dale Berry
    Hemi33 <>Gen I car version build in process , waiting for the Gen II/ truck option for the next build

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by myjones View Post
    David
    I agree fully with the above and am thrilled that we got a glimpse of some of what Dave has up his sleeve. The buzz created by his comments about the new supercar and the future of expanding the 33 line are exciting enough to become a topic at the HB show and the open house. Neither of which I can attend this year because my parts fund is taking a hit on the custom bits I can't seem to do without. I will get a chance to chat face to face with them at SEMA again though and I look forward to that trip.
    Dale Berry
    Hemi33 <>Gen I car version build in process , waiting for the Gen II/ truck option for the next build
    I would love to talk to Dave Smith again as well as Jim S. and Jesper about the 33's future. Boy would that be a long conversation....lol

    Maybe I'll go over some of the ideas on 33 in the sense of direction it could go again, but do it in thread dedicated to the subject of possibilities and not so much on actual design details. Only thing is not sure how far FFR is along.

    David

  37. #37
    As a GTM owner....I would very much welcome a front engine supercar. I would be a buyer if at all like the exaggerated proportions of a true supercar. Just putting my 2 cents in.

  38. #38
    Dave, I guess if you can't say what, could you say WHEN?

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