33 Hot Rod & 65 Coupe Platforms

[Vman7]

The idea behind this thread is to try and keep everything on the 33 Hot Rod & 65 Coupe Platforms that Dave Smith & FFR have in Mind, as well as other input, all in one place, to help people from having to search all over the place

After reading Dale's (aka myjones) Thread Dave Smith, opinion please, Dave Smith elaborated on possible platforms for the 33 Hot Rod & the 65 Coupe in post #3 & 15. I have highlight the parts that stuck out to me and probably others, also took out the parts that are not really relevant.

Dave Smith's post #3

Hell of a question. Right up front I gotta apologize since I don't post on the forums regularly. Saw this and figured I'd answer, but there may be other questions I've overlooked and it's not for lack of concern, there's just so much time in the day.

Regarding MY opinion on "Supercar" while technically all of our designs have extreme performance potential, I was referring to more of a GT car in line with a Ford GT, or in the case of a front engine supercar, something like an Aston Martin Vulcan/etc. So yes, mostly subjective, but capable of 200 mph is commonly considered a standard, a car more comfortable with a sweeping fast roadcourse than an autocross. Specifically I was referring to the fact that the GTM, as a mid-engine supercar (Low, wide, extreme in every way) has been a very big challenge for us. It is a remarkable car and each time I drive it, I say the same thing to myself, "Geez, I forgot how brutally fast this car is!".. I've pulled superbikes on the highway with my LS7 powered GTM!... Despite the love and passion the car evokes, it also requires quite a bit more technical support here at FFR and that cost can be extended to many areas of the car. The mid-engine radical design is more technically complex and one thing I'd like to do is use the new Gen 3 chassis (front engine/less complex) as the basis for a more modern version of the famous Daytona Coupe. At a minimum it could be seen as something like the Ford GR1 concept (not a copy but akin to), which was a modern version of the vintage Daytona Coupe.. Or it could be an extremely modern design of its own to compete with the front-engine supercars from Ferrari and Aston Martin, but one that would be a build-it-yourself American Factory Five.

I hope that answers your questions. We'll be developing the chassis, suspension, brakes, aero and other bits on the Gen 3 Coupe on the track this year along with some unfinished business with the 818R. The multitude of opportunities for us at FFR are dizzying and my job is not just to pick the fun ones but also to pick the projects that make the most business sense against the backdrop of all of the other projects, our skills and team's development, the competition, the market, and a thousand other things that need to be considered. So far we've been able to strike a good balance and I'm not bragging but just stating the truth that our longevity as a company is a function of doing mostly the right things at the right time product-wise (sometimes against the advice of the "experts"). I'll take credit for that since it is one of my most important jobs and one that takes much of my time. Dave

David

[Vman7]

Dave Smith's post #15

Let me just ramble here…

These are questions that involve a ton of variables and are sorta like playing chess where individual moves can change the entire game. The logic behind the Coupe chassis move to a modern spaceframe would not have been fully worthwhile but for some happy parallel vectors. The tooling has always been underutilized as the coupe is a small volume model, so another car (sooner or later) from the shared chassis made sense. The older gen 1-2 Coupe tooling needed significant upgrades anyway and similar efforts could be spent on an all-new chassis vs. the same vintage design. The CAD technology on the chassis and suspension had also come so far that it was hard not to use it with an all-new and much more capable design. Also we learned with the Hot Rod (which is a modern spaceframe chassis with modern suspension rather than a vintage replica ladder frame) that a good percentage of our customers would prefer to forgo “originality” in the chassis if it meant significantly better performance and safety.

Competing for valuable resources, the complexity of the GTM combined with our learning on the track with front-engine designs made sense to migrate in the gen 3 Coupe direction. The GTM needs a refresh and we’ve been exploring that option/costing concurrently. We still have the flexibility to go in opposite directions everything from discontinuing the GTM outright (not my pick as I do love the car) to maintenance of the existing design, to a body re-design (and maybe more) since modern shapes require more of this evolution to stay relevant than vintage designs which are more replicas. Each product line has its own life-cycle and trajectory. The Hot Rod, I think, has the most room to grow and market share to capture and so merits the investments of a steel-body after already getting the new IRS. A pick-up version is in the works with proper doors and cab with shared chassis but modified for the rear bed. These changes and investments make sense as the hot rod market is larger and our market share is small but growing. We’ve looked beyond “build-it-yourself” designs to things like a tri-five chassis (some folks have seen the 56 Chevy on the lift), trailers, and now we are a Ford Performance dealer, which was part of another product path involving completed cars built under the new SEMA legislation for the purposes of serving an export market with complete VIN numbered and FMVSS compliant Mk4’s and 33 Hot Rods. This plan is a longer term one that has some big investments required. We’ve secured property for this facility as of last fall but the timing of this entire endeavor is not firm.

In addition to the logical product decisions, I also have to look at things that matter because they matter. There is no way to fully separate the “because it’s fun and we love cars” factor. At some level, all of this is supported and even relies upon that stoke of WANTING to build it better, faster, stronger. Lastly, and maybe I’m actually getting older here, there is part of me that wants to do things because of ego. I want people to see how good Jim and Jesper and our team is with new designs and the modern Coupe version is just one such an opportunity to shine the light on this capability. But there’s so much more. I want this company to continue to make a difference, to build on the legacy we’ve helped to create with the collaboration of our customers and friends. What we DO matters in that it will determine how we are remembered and the nature of our legacy. One of the biggest reasons that I bought out my partner was that he never agreed with me on these “intangibles”. To him it was always just about dollars. To me, while I want to make money for sure, the way in which we make it is every bit as important. I selfishly want to look back and know that as a company, we left the motorsports community better than we found it. I want our company and efforts to build much more than cars and profits. I do want Factory Five to become one of the most iconic American Motorsports company.

I guess I’m saying that in all of these product decisions is this unquantifiable element of doing the right things for the right reasons. Dan Gurney taught me to make complex jobs simple by remembering what’s important. He said, “A race car driver’s job is to get to the finish line before the other guy”. That requires a ton of things to go right… preparation, training, practice, engineering, crew, luck, etc. but at the end of the day, you gotta get across the finish line ahead of the other guy. Simple enough. My job is to build better, faster and safer cars than anyone else and making the most money wasn’t part of that topic sentence. Frankly, if we do our jobs, we’ll always be able to pay the bills.

I’m proud as heck of the company and the obstacles we’ve overcome. I’m proud of the skills we’ve built and mostly, I’m so stoked and excited about the road ahead. It will not be a path I can successfully chart alone. As has been the case since day one, we are, as a company, so uniquely dependent upon you guys to build the kits that we designed into cars that become part of a story. That story and that collaboration is the thing that makes all the difference. I am constantly surprising our partner companies by doing things that no-one else does for them. I remind them that my entire business is predicated on the work of, and the collaboration with our customers. We’ve extended that philosophy to our partner companies and we have some of the strongest and closest relationships with them as a result.

For now, while the goals are clear, the work isn’t even halfway done. Every day it is a long, tough, (and fun) job. I’m doing my best to ensure that we stay on target with product decisions that make sense and continue our momentum. I deeply appreciate the advice and suggestions along the way and also the time you took to read if you got this far!

[Vman7]

I posted this in Dale's Thread Dave Smith, opinion please, post #34, just the part that is relevant.

Thanks Dale As far as the hot rod market, in this case around the 33 Ford era. I know that really well mostly because of my interest and research etc. since the mid '70s. It is a huge market when it comes to old cars below 1969 cars. A lot of competition, but if well planned out and well executed a company can be competitive. How well FFR knows that market I don't know. All I know is that I talked a lot about the 33 stuff and laid out a bunch of things that I would hope would help be more in that direction.

The main reason I didn't want to elaborate on the 33 that much was so this thread wouldn't get off subject and what Dave Smith said would end up getting lost. What Dave Smith said is not only exciting, but important about FFR and the insight and direction that they are going. I really didn't desire for that to get lost. David

So the reason for this Thread In the hopes of elaborating on the 2 platforms from not only myself, but as well from Dave Smith etc. and people here.

David

[Vman7]

33 Hot Rod Platforms

Let's start with this. The hot rod market, in the case hot rods that are from the years 1929-1934, mostly Fords, since we are talking about the FFR 33. The market is huge! But it also has it's challenges, mostly due to all the competition, some companies are very good, good and some are just plain either a joke or just in it for the money.

So here is where the challenge comes in. In order to compete competitively, a company, in this case FFR has to do their research, not only on product development, but also what the market demands and dictates. Since this market is so diverse with so many ways people can go with their hot rod. It would stand to reason a market within the market that has for the most part not been very tapped into. This is were FFR comes in. FFR develops, manufactures component cars (not going to say "kit cars" I don't think of FFR as one). Now there are companies who make bodies, chassis, all the other things that go into building a hot rod, but not really all in one place for the most part. People have to get this and that from different sources, I am talking about the big stuff like body, chassis etc. Even with FFR people have to get certain things from other sources depending on their tastes. The main point here is with FFR one can a base component car and go from there. Knowing Dave Smith, Jim S., Jasper and the rest of the FFR team, they have more then likely thought this through, at least from a business aspect. How far along that path FFR actually is, I really don't know.

If anybody can pull off getting a portion of the hot rod market with a component car it would be FFR, mostly due to the fact of marketing done by Dave Smith and FFR. I can't think of any other company that has the forum support, company support and how well Dave Smith works with other companies when it comes to a component car industry

So this now brings me to Main 33 Hot Rod Platform.

This is from my perspective. Some of these ideas go way back, and I mean way back even before FFR had a forum, some came together over time from reading things in the forums, Dave Smith's comments etc.

So where do I start, I guess the easiest thing to do is post comments I have posted in the past and elaborate on them some more.

These are main posts I have done in the past on the overall platform ideas. I'll elaborate on each where needed and at the end give a synopsis.

From Vman's '33 Hot Rod Design Ideas

Post #4

Update:
Thought I would just put out a few things that are going on with Designs for the 33. I have been gathering pictures from the internet over a long time to get ideas of what actually people are doing. It has really got my mind running like a freight train on ideas

I know that some people here and at the other forum have been throwing around the idea of a Tudor or a Vicky also some kind of pickup.

I have a really cool design idea for a Roadster/Coupe Pickup that would need some kind of new rear subframe, the subframe would also work with the Tudor or Vicky body. Not sure which way I am going to go on the Tudor or Vicky body. Most popular in the retro look is the Vicky, but the Tudor has been becoming very popular as of late. The Tudor would give more room in the rear than the Vicky. So I am kind of leaning toward the Tudor, all depends on how it looks once mocked up.

Another idea I have for a alt body is a "true" Speedster with a track nose. The way I am thinking about it there could be a few different ways of doing this.

Speedster Plan

1st Version: would be of course a track front nose piece with a new hood with more rounded outer edges as you go forward, new engine panels. There would be a nice round rear roll pan. This version would require the least amount of work.

2nd Version:This version would require a lot of work on the part of the person doing the build.
The beltline would be sanded off front and back, only remaining part would be part way through the hood, doors, and part way back of the B pillar into the rear fender. All of the rounded trim around the whole body at the bottom and around the rear fenders would be sanded down to the body, including the rear wide area below the tail lights. This would give the car a more smooth rounded feel.

Of course there would be the new track nose, hood and engine panels.

The Rear Roll pan would be a nice rounded one.

3rd Version: I have put a lot of thought into this for a long time now, hopefully it can be done in reality.

This version would require a alt body. It would include everything in version 1 and 2 just already done. Plus the following.
Reshaped doors & body at the bottom to allow for "lake style" headers and sipe pipes. These doors could also be used just for people who would just like to have sipe pipes.

I am really excited about working on the Speedster and the Roadster/Coupe Pickup!

David

Post #7

The Roadster/Coupe pickup is going to take some real good layout work. The hard part about the Roadster/Coupe Pickup will be the rear subframe (which would also be used on the Tudor or Vicky body).

I was thinking of a Woodie myself. There is a guy here in Florida on the east coast that does custom woodies.

Not sure about sectioning the speedster body just yet, won't really know until I get it mocked up.

Post #8

Speaking of the Roadster/Coupe Pickup. The front grille and shell will be a custom one for what I have in mind, but it would be an option. The cab part would be shortened from the rear some, but not effect the seating. Cab would also have a optional windshield visor that would be molded in. The idea I have for the rear pickup bed area be is a little hard to describe. The gas tank would be basicly in the same place only lower and a more rounded shape at top and bottom, which would be part way in the cab and part way out into the bed area, gas tank would be alum and highly polished. There would be a wood bed with an polished alum cover over where the ctr rear end is for clearance. Of course an new subframe.

I was somewhat laying out the Tudor and Vicky the other day. The way it is going I am thinking more along the lines of the Tudor, it seems to flow better, mostly with the angle of the front. This might be the first group I put out since there won't be as much work involved as there will be for the other designs

More to come.

David

Post #15

That would be cool if the designs would be something in the future.

As far as the Panel Delivery design, I have been doing a lot of thinking about it, design wise, mostly in how to design the rear subframe as well as for the pickup version. The Panel Delivery main concern is where to put the fuel tank. I have a few ideas for the panel delivery, such as a rear hatch, either with a top hatch and a bottom one or just one hatch. Also a way of finishing off the inside for use as storage compartments, hidden of course. Maybe some kind of optional pullout storage tray. I am thinking about doing some kind of retractable sunroof as an option.

Post #16

Once I get back on the designs again. My hope is to really work on the speedster and full fender road racing body. Both would do well on the track. Both the speedster and full body road racing body designs would have suspensions that would be set up for handling for street and/or track. I am thinking along the lines of a 3 link.

As far as suspension for the Pickup and Panel Delivery, I am thinking more of a 4 link, mostly for room on the rear subframe, so nothing interferes with the bottom of the pickup bed or bottom area in the panel delivery. Probably have to do some kind of shock mounts.

David

[Vman7]

From Vman's '33 Hot Rod Design Ideas continued

Post #19

In answer to a question of extending the wheelbase for the pickup to allow for a longer bed (asked by a few in the What's next for Factory Five thread)

I thought of that, but probably wouldn't want to go more then 114" wheelbase (2" longer then orig).

First off let me get this out of the way. the so called "pickup" design I am working on is not a pickup truck in the true sense of the word. '32-'34 Ford model B had the following wheelbases, and yes even the pickup trucks. '32 - 106", '33,'34 - 112". The pickup truck body sat more foward on the frame rails then the sedans, plus you sat more upright in the pickup truck.

A roadster pickup is not the same as a pickup truck. Basicly a roadster pickup is roadster body from the back of the seats foward with a short bed. I am not actually sure if Ford made any '33-'34 roadster pickups, it's hard to find any actual documents on them, I do know Ford made roadster pickups between '28-'32 though.

Here is a picture of a '34 Ford pickup truck (same as '33), you will see how more fwd the cab sits.

Attachment 25124

Now here is where the problem comes in. First if the wheelbase is changed for the roadster/coupe pickup to say 114" the new rear subframe can only be used for the pickup and not the tudor, vicky, panel bodies, since those you would want to keep at 112" wheelbase. Second if you redesign the body and move it fwd some, then you run into all kind of chassis changes. So from a business point it would not be practical or economically wise just to have a subframe that is only for one body design that may or may not sell well.

From the mockup design, the bed looks short between the cab and rear fender, but that is an illusion being that the cab sit outward more then the bed, you can't really see where the bed comes up to the body because of the angel of the camera shot. This is one of the reasons (among many others) why I decided to tilt the rear of the bed outward at the top, it gives the appearance of looking longer as well as flows better with the angles of the body.

Roadster/Coupe Pickup (cab almost done, needs more shading, bed just a mockup right now)


David

Post #42

There would be a gap between the cab and bed, there would be rubber spacers at the bottom between the cab and bed allowing the top part of the bed to flex some, also rubber spacers between the bed and subframe. The back of the cab would have an opening for the gas tank, which would be part way inside and part way outside with a outside cover which has a built in support brace going accross. I did that so you can change between beds.

The idea is to be able to use the orig fenders and running boards. Pretty much everything you said in that last part.

The body will taper in some. If you look at the orig full fenders they go into the body at the rear. The Bed would taper enough to go inside of the fenders, if that makes sense.

The Traditional Bed would be the width of where the inside wheel arch is, and straight back, which would determine the width of the top rails.

David

Post #59

I have been rethinking the longer wheelbase for the pickup design. I think I might have figured out a way to use the same subframe for the pickup and the Tudor/delivery without any major changes, just make 2 of the frame tubes 2" longer. This would increase the wheelbase to 114".

Also started working on something I thought I wouldn't really work on, design wise. Let's just say that being a former custom cabinet builder, it would be right up my alley

David

The second half of post #59 I was referring to a woody

[Vman7]

Post #72

Ok lets give this a shot...lol

The ideas have many parts, so I guess I should break it down.

1st Part, Body

This mostly deals with the aesthetics of the 33 Hot Rod.

The first area would mostly be small stuff like,
different tops, roll pans, fenders, tail light options, engine panels etc.
This would also include interior ideas as well, like door panels, dash options etc. The fiberglass stuff could be done by builder or say FFR, they would be already molded and would have to be installed as either a bolt in or molded in my the builder.

The second area would be more body changes that either the customer or say FFR would do.
This would more along the lines of major changes like for example a new door to allow for side exhaust, or
a new front design. This would also be where the Speedster for example comes in that I somewhat explained in post #4. about the 3 different versions, or think of them more as stages. Stages 1 & 2 the work is more done by the Builder. Now this doesn't mean that the builder makes all the fiberglass parts, the fiberglass part would already be made, just that the builder would have to either mold them into the body or bolt them on depending on the part.

The third area would be complete molded body changes. This would include the Speedster, roadster-coupe pickup, tudor/delivery, woody?

This is where it gets somewhat complicated to explain, so I guess I'll start with the roadster-coupe pickup 1st,
since I put that design up 1st, not done yet, but was posted 1st in the sense of complete body changes. My intention was to work on the different tops 1st (most are already done), then the speedster.

Ok back to the roadster-coupe pickup.

Roadster-Coupe Pickup.
It would have a main body based on the orig FFR, but modified already molded, then you just add the windshield etc. fenders if you want of your choice or no fenders using the orig FFR ones or you can use optional bobbed ones. Then choose the bed style you want, which would come in a kit. Add the top you like. Now that is just the body stuff, as far as the chassis goes I'll explain that in the 2nd Part.

Tudor/Delivery
This would be like the Roadster-Coupe Pickup, a main body based again on the orig FFR. Same idea with the fenders using all the orig FFR or option ones. Now this is the idea I like a lot, the tops would work just like the orig. FFR top, just choose either the tudor top or the delivery top,or the Sport Wagon top (open in back and front rag top) there could even be some custom tops.

Speedster
This body has the most changes. This design would be designed for performance, for track or street.
The body is still based on the orig FFR body, but with major changes. A complete new front end, which would include a more rounded nose, think of a tracknose. New shaped hood, engine panels. Custom top (haven't decided on which one yet), which is more streamlined. A full roll pan, bike fenders that are custom, there would be no full fenders as an option. Most "speedster, tracknose, lakeside" designs don't have fenders. The idea I have in mind, all the rounded trim (think of the beltline) that goes all around the body would be gone, the only rounded accent would be a rounded one that starts on the engine panel and curves up into
the door. I'll have to get this one done for ppl to really see what I am talking about.

Full Fendered Race/Street Body
The front would have the front fenders come all the way down with the nose to create a front airdam which
would still have the flow and feel of a 33. The running boards would be higher to allow for side exhaust exiting
outside the running board near the rear fender. The read fenders would be extended down some, not much with a piece that goes from fender to fender, which is where the rear of the body is extended down. There would be a full rear diffuser.

Now keep in mind that the over-all idea is to make it easier for the builder

Ok I think I pretty much have all the fiberglass stuff talked about...lol

Like is mentioned before, I think...lol a lot of it will make more sense as I go along posting pics.

In the next post I'll get into the chassis.

David

As far as a full fendered race/street body, not so sure about that anymore.

Woody I like to call it "Woody in a Crate" or "Woody N Crate"...lol
From the cabin fwd would remain the same, everything else would be of a new design with a body subframe structure. The Wood body could be made of hollow parts done something like doing a wooden boat to help keep the weight down, with the wood epoxy resin over it. The Custom Design is a little more modern but yet still nostalgic, has the ability to customize the side and rear panels which could be in a kit form or let the customer do it. The original fenders, running boards or bike fenders can still be used. The Woody would take a lot of planning.

David

[Vman7]

Post #73

2nd Part, Chassis

This area would not apply to the Speedster or the Full Fendered Race/Street Body, since the chassis would remain the same. This would apply to the Roadster-Coupe Pickup, Toudor/Delivery and possibly the Woody.

The main idea is to have a one rear subframe design that can be used on the pickup, tudor/delivery, woody. This rear subframe could either be bolted in or welded in, but I would think it would be better welded in, mostly for integrity to the overall chassis.

Now this is where it is a matter of practicality. Is it better to cut off the aft portion of the orig FFR chassis and add the new subframe or have a chassis jig with moveable color coded clamps for the chassis jig and have it done at FFR? The way I see it the latter would be better. I can't see spending money for a chassis then cutting off the aft section and adding a new subframe, in the sense of paying for something that jus ends up getting thrown out for the most part. Where as if I could have the option of having a different rear subframe when ordering, in the long run I would think it would save money, might have to pay a little more since there is a little more work and material, but overall would save time and money.

This new rear subframe would still have to have the quality and performance capability as the orig. FFR Chassis.

The rear subframe would have to allow for more room as well to be able to use more of the rear area.

The overall idea of the new rear subframe would allow for several body platforms in one nice package.

That's about all I can think of right now on the chassis as far as an overall idea, details would have to be figured out.

David

There would roughly be:
FFR original Chassis
used for FFR Roadster/Coupe, also the Speedster Design

Chassis #2 Roadster/Coupe Pickup
Has a different rear subframe

Chassis #3 Tudor, Delivery & Woody
Has a different rear subframe

My thought would be that FFR could set up say a table jig with color and number coded clamping blocks that would be moved around to the corresponding places on the table that would also be colored and number coded. Just move the blocks around depending on the chassis being built. For the Vertical parts there would be jigs made and setup that would correspond with the chassis that is being built. We have done this many times in Cabinet shops, pretty much the same idea.

This way by knowing where to put the appropriate clamping blocks and jigs, it will help with efficiency and accuracy. This would help going back and forth depending what a customer orders.

[Vman7]

Post #74

3rd Part, Details

This area is where it's up to the builder's preference, which is only limited by their imagination.

This would be anything from headlights, tail lights, exhaust, seats, gauges, gauge panels, exterior and interior
trim, engine options etc.

There would be resources and sources at the builder's disposal in one common area to gather information and ideas for their build. This would allow to free up a lot of builder's time to spend more time building instead of doing a lot of research and such. Now that doesn't mean all of the builder's questions would be answered, but it would help those that are not as knowledgeable in some areas help get them in the right direction on their build. One of the ideas of the resources and sources is to help builder's not to get discouraged and loose confidence in their vision of their build. I believe that some builder's may get frustrated and end up compromising on their build. So with the help of the forums, without a doubt and good resources and sources it can help builder's on their way to a great and rewarding build.

I wish there was a way for me to share all of my bookmarks I have. I have tons of them. Anybody have ideas on how I could share those without having to email them to everybody who wants them? Maybe somewhere I can upload them so ppl can download them and put them in their favorites. I really don't want to start an account somewhere just to upload them. Maybe someone could put them on their website?

David

As far as a resource list goes, it could here or on a website somewhere, but with easy access. Not that I really desire to it, but could give what I have to someone else.

Ok so that is pretty much everything on the 33 Hot Rod. Hope I didn't miss anything

Synopsis

3 different Chassis:
FFR original Chassis
used for FFR Roadster/Coupe, also the Speedster Design

Chassis #2 Roadster/Coupe Pickup
Different rear subframe

Chassis #3 Tudor, Delivery & Woody
Different rear subframe

Body Options:
Roadster-Coupe Pickup

Speedster

Tudor, Delivery & Woody (Woody in a Crate)

Different Tops

Frenched rear tail light kits

Different bike fender sizes, maybe about 3, also bike fenders that would go say 3/4 around the tires for front and back to allow for customers to trim to their liking.

Speedster diy kit

Roadster/Coupe DeLux Packages
These would be mix & match, like interior trim, door panels etc. and/or exterior trim, different headlights, tail lights, different tops, windshield options like a duvall windshield, actual beltline trim in different profiles etc.

Misc Parts:
Roll Pans, Diffusers
Exterior lighting options
Exhaust options
Trim kits
Maybe some interior kits

Links to Albums: To help people get an idea of what is possible
Vman's Main Albums
'33 Roadster-Coupe Pickup
'33 Tudor & Delivery
'33 Woody
'33 Top Designs Old
I haven't set one up for the Speedster yet

Well I think that pretty much sums up the 33 stuff. Hope I didn't miss anything.

David

[Vman7]

Well now that the super long part of the 33 is done...lol can move on to the 65 Coupe

Now that FFR has come out with the Gen3, which by the way is Awesome!!!
With a new chassis design, new body lines, mostly the rear fenders and roof. This is a great platform to build on, just like Dave Smith said in Dale's (aka myjones) Thread Dave Smith, opinion please post #3 & 15, which is also posted above.

Dave Smith was talking about using the Gen3 chassis platform to build on, for some kind of "supercar" like the Vulcan body style, or something along those lines.

There are a bunch of ways could go with this, but not as far as with the 33. It's more limited, but in a good way since it would allow FFR a unique body design(s).

David

[Vman7]

65 Coupe Gen3 Body & Interior Mod Kits
Some of the kits could be used on older bodies.

Like Dave Smith has talked about in few threads since SEMA. The Gen3 has a very good growth potential, not just the chassis, but the new Gen3 Body as well. FFR as already started doing aero mods. Which brings me to some mods that FFR could do in the future or maybe 3rd party vendor working with FFR.

Some have seen my designs for the 65 Coupe here Vman's '65 Coupe Design Ideas Those are just my design ideas. Sure FFR has some of their own as well as other people.

Some Design Ideas:
Rear Mod Kits
Which could include the folllowing
Recessed Lic Plate kit
Half recessed tail light kit
Molded in back up light kit (LED)
Rear vents kits
Spoiler kits, also a 3rd brake light kit for spoiler

Side Mod Kits
Engine Vents Kit (molded in, other then the FFR Race Aero kit)
Rear Fender Vents Kit (molded in, other then the FFR Race Aero kit)

Interior Kits
Different Dashboard Kits
Overhead Console Kit

Right now that is about all I can think of. Sure if I think about it some more I could come with a few more.

[Vman7]

65 Coupe Gen3 "Supercar" Body Option
Not sure what to say on this, since I really don't know what Dave Smith, Jim, Jesper & the FFR Team have in mind. Also not sure if I should even come up with some kind of design, since I am not real sure of what FFR has in mind.

So I guess this part is kind of up in the air so to speak.

David

[Vman7]

GTO Design Project (F5 GTO)

Here is what I posted in the Vman's '65 Coupe Design Ideas

Post #9

The GTO Design Project was formally known as the Banshee Design Project.
The GTO Design for the most part is a wide body version of the 65 Coupe. 1.5" wider per/side Rear. 1.0" wider per/side front. The wider version is not with fender flares, but moving the fenders out and taper them back into the body. The front will be based on the AC A98 Coupe (see picture below). The front deck vent (V shape) will have more of a curve to it, and match at the rear of the vent. There will be diferent side fender vents with an accent line above. Single 4" side pipes with a custom heat shield. The rear will have the diffuser, recessed tail lights, custom recessed Lic Plate area, custom venting, and custom rear molded flush rear spoiler. The top and rear hatch will be reshaped. The Dashboard will be based on the C2 corvette (see picture below).

AC A98 Coupe front.

Attachment 30730

C2 Corvette Dashboard

Attachment 30731

David

Like I said in the quoted post above it's a wide version, but with some extras. I know somewhere recently in a post about the new gen3 I said about maybe not going with a wide body. But since I have had sometime to think about it. The Wide Body might be better, but just a little wider then the post above, thinking more like 2" wider per/side in back and 1.5" per/side in front.
Ferrari 250 GTO inspired rear fender vents. A custom cowl induction hood. Custom Hood vents. Too many details to list.

This could be another possible direction that FFR could go with the body. It keeps the body nostalgic, but yet unique to FFR.

I'll add the GTO Design Project (F5 GTO) album link here later as I add to it, as well a new Thread on the GTO Design Project.

David

[Vman7]

Classic 1950s Design Project

I touched on this a little bit in the Vman's '65 Coupe Design Ideas thread.

Post #10

The Classic 1950s Design Project, which will be based on the Lancia D24 Sport. Has a 94.5" wheelbase, but has a narrower track, so the track will be closer to the 65 Coupe.

The Design will be based on the Lancia D24, but not a replica of it.

Lancia D24


Attachment 30734

Attachment 30735

Attachment 30736

Attachment 30737

I haven't done any renderings yet. I have done some basic line drawings though.

I haven't really come up with a name yet for this design.
Some ideas:
F24 Spyder
American Flyer
Schenck- Ingerslev Spyder
Schenck Spyder
Ingerslev Spyder

The last three would be a homage to the leaders of R&D and Engineering.

This is just another direction FFR could go with the new gen3 chassis. There would have to be a few chassis mods of course, but nothing major.

David

[Vman7]

That's about all I can think of right now.



Hopefully this thread will give some insight of the Vision that Dave Smith and FFR has for the future of the 33 Hot Rod & 65 Coupe Gen3. Along with some other possible directions that Dave Smith & FFR might consider, with not only my input but others a well.

Hopefully everything can stay in this thread, that way Dave Smith and other don't have to look and search all over the place.

Thank you for your patience in allowing me to spend the time to post all of this.

This end today's special broadcast....lol

David

[Vman7]

another place holder just in case I need it....lol

[Vman7]

Been a long night. Just remembered another 33 area that could be done by FFR or 3rd party vendor working closely with them. The Coupe DeLux (could also be Roaster DeLux) Mostly just a upgrade package. I'll have to elaborate on it some more and post it up in the 33 section.

Boy I am sure having trouble seeing right now, everything is blurry! Can tell I only got about 2hr.s of sleep...lol

David

[myjones]

I posted this in Dale's Thread Dave Smith, opinion please, post #34, just the part that is relevant. So the reason for this Thread In the hopes of elaborating on the 2 platforms from not only myself, but as well from Dave Smith etc. and people here. David

David
I wonder if this wouldn't be easier to follow if it was two threads, one for the 33 and one for the 65. Fairly different followers I would think.
BTW
I just noticed the new avatar, went right by me the first two times I perused the thread.
Dale

[Vman7]

David
I wonder if this wouldn't be easier to follow if it was two threads, one for the 33 and one for the 65. Fairly different followers I would think.
BTW
I just noticed the new avatar, went right by me the first two times I perused the thread.
Dale

I was thinking of that as well, but doubt that either here or even if it was in the 33 hot rod and 65 coupe areas it would get much attention. Most people I have found have a short attention span when comes to reading something really long.

The avatar says it all.........roflmbo, I did the math, roughly 42,000 members overall between both forum sites. I would have to say at the most I have influenced maybe 20 that have actually done anything. So when do the math that is roughly .05% of the community........yep I would say that is pretty insignificant.

David

[Vman7]

I added the Roadster/Coupe DeLux Packages above to post #8

Roadster/Coupe DeLux Packages

I think I might leave the avatar for now..........lol

David

[Vman7]

David
I wonder if this wouldn't be easier to follow if it was two threads, one for the 33 and one for the 65. Fairly different followers I would think.
Dale

Dale, you might just be right about that, I guess if some people chime in here, and say that might be a better idea. I might just have to do that. Only thing that it might make it harder for Dave Smith to find and make comments.

Like I said in post #18. People tend to have a short attention span when it comes to reading something long.

Well I guess, we will see what happens.

David

[carbon fiber]

Vman, if your idea is used by Dave Smith to create a new product to sell, I wouldn't say that's insignificant. Plenty of customers will now enjoy an FFR pick-up even if they don't know who came up with it. What happened is you just didn't get paid for your ideas. You threw them all out there and there was no need for you after the basic idea/design. (Google VBM4000). One of the reasons I'm not showing my GTM redesign until it's finished. Anyone can take your ideas and try to recreate it. You should use your talents to design some things you can market, get paid doing it, and be significant in your own arena.

[Vman7]

Vman, if your idea is used by Dave Smith to create a new product to sell, I wouldn't say that's insignificant. Plenty of customers will now enjoy an FFR pick-up even if they don't know who came up with it. What happened is you just didn't get paid for your ideas. You threw them all out there and there was no need for you after the basic idea/design. (Google VBM4000). One of the reasons I'm not showing my GTM redesign until it's finished. Anyone can take your ideas and try to recreate it. You should use your talents to design some things you can market, get paid doing it, and be significant in your own arena.

Hi Jason, been a while. First off you are assuming that the insignificant part has to do with whether Dave Smith & FFR that the pickup design is even based on any part of my design, and that it won't be acknowledged if the pickup is somewhat based on my design. Don't know if it is or not, and FFR is not at that point yet.

Second, after reading your post I would come to the conclusion that you are driven by money. I am not driven by money. I am driven by desire, not just for self accomplishment, but also to help others to accomplish their goals. It's not about how much money I can make or having my name up on billboard and bragged about. If I happen to get paid, that's great. I believe that if someone cares more about the quality of the product, in this case designs, the money will follow. If not, that's ok, at least I have the satisfaction of knowing that I put my best effort to reach a goal. I have never asked money. I have said many times in posts, that I enjoy doing this.

Third, one can't not move in a certain direction without feedback and structural criticism, whether it leans negative or positive. Without feedback and/or structural criticism, there is no way to gauge/measure if one is on the right track and or direction. Since there has been little or no feedback and/or structural criticism, one can get the feeling of feeling insignificant. That what one is doing just isn't being listened to or just plain ignored for what ever reasons. Hence the avatar, because that is how I feel at the moment. I am not talking about this thread in particular. I am not feeling sorry for myself here. Just not getting enough feedback and/or structural criticism to know if what I am designing is going in the right direction.

Someone can have a great design at least they think it is a great design, but if no one has any interest in it, it ends up for the most part being an wasted effort.

Just in case some may have missed it when I say it. I do really appreciate people's input, as well as when people give credit where credit is due. I am also very happy for those who have used some of my designs and those who have built and sold items, more power to them!

Hope this makes sense

David

[carbon fiber]

You're the one having the public pity party. I'm not driven by money dude. If I was driven by money I would have never made part one for the GTM. You can't make any money on low production stuff like this. It's all about passion for me. I LIVE THIS. I don't appreciate the comment AT ALL. I mentioned money because from the conversations we've had you talked about making a living designing being a dream of yours. I'm just saying if it's not money then what? You're here showing designs, they've sparked interest, and are being born into reality. That's plenty significant. If it's not money, then it's got to be that Dave Smith didn't want your direct input when developing these new items. Why would he when you gave the designs for free and he can do the rest the way he wants? If you want to have the kind of inclusion you're talking about, you'll have to start selling your work or start your own company. P.S. Money and control go hand in hand most of the time.

[Vman7]

I tried to explain myself in a cordial manner, but that's not good enough for you.

THAT'S IT I HAVE HAD IT WITH BUTTHEADS LIKE YOU!!! ALL YOU EVER DO IS TRY TO START A PISSING CONTEST!!!

So if anybody want's to blame someone for me leaving it's carbon fiber.

I am out of here, have a nice day

David aka Vman

[carbon fiber]

Cry me a river! You are the one who insulted me genius, with the money comment. I've always stood up for you, even told Dave Smith he should hire you to do design work. How am I starting a pissing contest? I've never bad-mouthed your designs, only gave them accolades. If it weren't for me stoking the fire a little on that other thread, you wouldn't even know what was going on anyway. What you want isn't realistic David. You want the control without the elbow grease, It doesn't work that way. Dave Smith owns the company and he's going to build things the way he likes, not the way you like. (I'll even give you credit by saying they can't make it look any better than your design, probably won't look as good) I was just trying to get you to take the steps to get out there and get something going where you can profit. (Money and control) The truth is I called you out on your self-pity. You didn't like it and now you're blaming me for YOUR leaving?! If there were only a few people that you influenced, like you cried about, you won't be missed Mr. Insignificant. (P.S. I don't think the people here view you as insignificant, just you.)

[Vman7]

Ok, the avatar is gone, happy now.

I Swear nobody really reads what I post. Not just in this thread put others as well. Not sure if it is because I tend to be long-winded or people think I am full of it, for what ever reasons, it is what it is. Don't people read all the words and notice the smiley faces etc. As far as this thread, out of how long it is and trying to explain everything the best I can. And out of all that over one post and a avatar, that's all one person got out of it, really!

The avatar thing was mostly between me an someone else and meant to be sarcastic humor I was stating facts when it came to the insignificant thing. Facts are Facts! but I was trying to be somewhat funny in a sarcastic way

Sick and tired of having to explain myself over and over again!

I am still leaving though or I should say just not going to post anymore design stuff or anything related to it. No more input on anything related growth etc. I'll just be reading threads and posting, if I do at all, comments on people's build's.

That's all I have say, I'll leave it at that.

David