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Thread: First AAA Ride Home @ 7,000 miles

  1. #1

    First AAA Ride Home @ 7,000 miles

    First AAA Ride Home @ 7,000 miles

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Went out to Bob's to use his lift to see if I could sport the cause of the right hand turn noise. Went for a quick spin to duplicate the noise for Bob.

    Gave the car a quick squirt in 2nd. Car was quick but did not run as hard as usual. Went back & put the car up & found nothing suggesting any contact between parts that are not supposed to touch.

    Bob save me some trouble when it spotted a main power wire that had come loose from a hold down & was rubbing on the drive shaft. Because I has sheathed all my wires only the protection had rubbed through. We wire tied it back in place & I will install a fresh hold down.

    On the was home the engine cut out under load going onto the interstate. Did this once or twice. Not a misfire just zero power. Steady 2500ROM for about 20 miles. Car started not reacting to the gas pedal on upgrades. Would cut out then catch.

    Eventually about 7 miles from home it quit altogether. Called AAA. About 45 minutes we were loaded & on the way.
    Excellent driver. Took care to see the car was not scraped by the chains & dropped it in my garage.

    Shuffled the cars around on the driveway then went it to check the COBRA. It started right up on the key turn.

    Any thoughts?
    __________________
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Kevin-

    Take a look at your ignition switch. I had a similar problem on an old car. Stumped me for a long time, and acted just as you described. It was the ignition, and worked great after being replaced. You may just have a loose wire, although a bad switch cannot be ignored.

    Good luck with it!

    Regards,


    Steve

  3. #3
    Steady 2500 rpm seems like "limp home" mode but quitting completely and then starting right up is something else. At least we found the "soon to be rubbed through" main power wire!
    The brief squirt in 2nd gear sure impressed me!

    boB

  4. #4
    Mr Bear

    I had a truck that on level no problem but up any hill or load would just creep along. Turned out to be
    the fuel filter. 7000 miles doesn't seem right mine had about 70000 but just something to check.
    MKIV 8851 Complete LS3 376/480 4L70e Auto 2015 IRS 15" Wheels Undercar Exhaust

    Ordered 2/25/16 Delivered 3/26/16

  5. #5
    Thank for the input will play with it tomorrow.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  6. #6
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    If whatever happened was Coyote related, in theory it should have been logged by the PCM. Reading for trouble codes would be a logical first step. Sounds like something fuel related though. Filter as mentioned or the pump itself. That could cause it to be intermittent.

    Your post reminded me to make sure I have the roadside assistance information in my Roadster. I don't have AAA, but have it as a rider on my insurance. Just printed the numbers and included with my registration and other insurance information I keep in the car.
    Last edited by edwardb; 04-21-2017 at 06:43 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. Red/white club for the third time. #8674 Build Thread

  7. #7
    was there fuel in it
    The traveling Builder
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  8. #8
    Senior Member KDubU's Avatar
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    Agreeing with fuel as the issue or at least it seems like that based on how you describe it.
    Kyle

    Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017.

  9. #9
    Fuel was my gut reaction when it happened. Was too noisy on the highway but not sure I could hear the fuel pump when it died. Will also check the ignition switch wiring & was planning to hook up the code reader this morning but had a DR. appointment

    Car has 3/4 of a tank, filled the other day after a 2.5 hour run at speed 75/80MPH. No issues that day.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  10. #10
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    Just guessing without more info, but check the air inlet hoses and connection. Unmetered air will upset the system similar to what you described. A unresponsive pedal, should throw a code. If the computer finds something out of range it will prevent operation, unresponsive throttle, until corrected. I will be watching this for sure. Good luck,
    I saw an engine pull open the silicone hose coupling on the cold air induction, while under power in a right hand turn. On a straight or left turn the engine movement would not pull it open. If the air filter is mounted to a stationary mount and the engine moves, a greater chance this can happen.
    Last edited by Railroad; 04-21-2017 at 09:49 AM.
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  11. #11
    Just stuck my face out there for a quick look, intake hoses & sensor is solid & plug is good. Thanks for the input its not something I would have thought to look at.

    Cant do much till tomorrow but can take a quick look at obvious stuff.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  12. #12


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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    I can't see it running at a steady 2500 for 20 miles if it is not getting fuel.

    Jeff

  13. #13
    Hi Jeff,

    When I pushed on the gas pedal a bit to maintain speed on a rise in the road it would go dead for a few seconds then pick up spedd but would jerk on occasion. If I relaxed the pedal it would come back to life (till it died) for a while. Seems to be throttle related till it died all together.

    When it got home, about an hour since it died, it started right off & idled OK. The flatbed drive dropped in in my garage & the driveway was loaded with everybody getting in for dinner so I just shut it down because I could not take it outside. Think its the electronic throttle? Expect that will throw an error code when I get the tuning tool on it.

    Thing that made me think fuel delivery is it got worse (more frequent cut outs) as I got closer to home
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-21-2017 at 12:15 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  14. #14
    Senior Member Papa's Avatar
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    Fuel pump or pressure regulator (if equipped) possibly?
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

  15. #15
    Yeah, but from what I understand is the external pumps are a weak spot. Will put in a fresh filter regardless. Need to put the pressure gauge back in to check the regulator. Car requires 55PSI in the line pump switch on but car not running.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  16. #16
    Pulled 3 error codes P0050 P0059 P0155 which all seam to refer to a heater control. That said when I turned on the car the fuel pump (external) used to be really loud. Today it barely humming. Car started so I could get it out of the garage & let it run. Driveway is too steep & curves to chance putting it into the street at this point. Would be a real killer to get back in if my small tractor can't pull it up the hill. Not enough room to get it to a flat spot with my pickup.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  17. #17
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
    Pulled 3 error codes P0050 P0059 P0155 which all seam to refer to a heater control. That said when I turned on the car the fuel pump (external) used to be really loud. Today it barely humming. Car started so I could get it out of the garage & let it run. Driveway is too steep & curves to chance putting it into the street at this point. Would be a real killer to get back in if my small tractor can't pull it up the hill. Not enough room to get it to a flat spot with my pickup.
    Those codes are heater related. But specific to the heater function of the O2 sensors, all three specifically for Bank 2 Sensor 1. Not the space heater if that's what you're thinking. You might have an O2 sensor going out. I wouldn't think a failing O2 sensor would cause either a no-start or limp mode. But it still is probably something you should look at. Do you have an MIL and was it lit? If you have a scanner that reads actual data, not just codes, you may be able to see how long the codes have been out there.

    If the fuel pump sounds different that's concerning for sure. Low or no output would seem consistent with what happened.
    Last edited by edwardb; 04-22-2017 at 02:45 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. Red/white club for the third time. #8674 Build Thread

  18. #18
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    Some people set their fuel pressure then take the gauge off. I left my gauge in place. I want to be able to see what the pressure is. A troubleshooting tool. Just like I want to see what my oil pressure and the actual engine temperature is. The FFR gauges are relative. I keep the tuner plugged in and use it in "monitor" mode. I'm reading the same data the Coyote ECM receives.
    Last edited by Dave Howard; 04-23-2017 at 01:45 PM.

  19. #19
    Thanks for the info - will check the sensors & yes it did refer to a bank but I did not understand what it meant. Agee on the pressure gauge. I took mine off once the car was tuned - too many horror stories of chicken fried cobras.

    Will take a look at my handheld for monitor mode its a X4. Also have a smart phone app that connects with a dongle that might be able to look further into it.

    My though was even though for the wrong reason the last of major codes suggests an outside part not the ECU. Other link is the throttle pedal, I don't know if it was cause a fault code if it was going bad.

    Going to pull the rear wheels tomorrow & check the brakes. One if the guys with the right hand turn noise tracked it to the brake pads. Since I did not have the noise before I swapped pads its a good suspect.
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-22-2017 at 02:46 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  20. #20
    Some info but not a whole lot of progress yet

    Pulled the wheels & the DS rear brake may be an issue with the rub. Its very tight & the rotor has no wear on its innermost section toward the hub so the pad is not sitting flush with the rotor. As recommended by one of the guys will grind some metal off the pad where it may be binding.

    Pressure tested the fuel pump & its a static 55PSI ignition on but car not started, COYOTE Spec. Weird thing prior to crapping out on 540 the pump was quite noisy when running from the first start over two years ago. Now I can hardly hear it run. Going to swap in a fresh pump when the brown truck gets here today.

    Possibly the pump can't maintain pressure when the volume requirement increases. Fail all came when I was looking for more power from a stop light or during quick cruise.

    Have not investigated the ignition key yet or looked at replacing the O2 sensor that gave me an error code on my hand held tuner. Was wondering if a shortage of fuel coming into the engine would trip the sensor?

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-26-2017 at 02:09 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  21. #21


    Not a waxer
    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
    ...Was wondering if a shortage of fuel coming into the engine would trip the sensor?

    Any thoughts?
    If you were short on fuel the sensor would see a lean condition and the ECU would call for more fuel. If it was still seeing lean after attempting to richen the mixture it might trip a "sensor out of range" code or some such but it doesn't sound like you got that. You probably need to look at fuel pressure under load; free revving rarely shows a starvation. I've had a couple of 'em falling on their face before and had to put a long hose on the gauge then run it out the back of the hood and tape it to the windshield so that I could see what happened when the hesitation came in. Clogged filter on one and bad pump on the other---both showed normal pressure at idle or revving in neutral but pulling up through 2nd or 3rd gear I could watch it drop when the stumble began.

    Good luck,
    Jeff

  22. #22
    Senior Member DaleG's Avatar
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    Fuel pump intermittent ground?
    SOLD 03/2013: MK II #5004: 5.0 EFI: 8.8, 3.55, E303, TW heads, GT40 intake, 24#, 70mm MAF

    Ordered MK IV Coyote Complete Kit.

  23. #23
    Hi Dale,

    Wires are tight, pump is grounded on the chassis near its mounting point. It never went fully dead just a change in pitch from too loud to very quiet.

    Working on the car this afternoon also putting a fresh battery in the pickup.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  24. #24
    Kevin,

    You could try to record a log or two and review the AFR. When it stumbles or stalls see if it is going lean. If it isn't going lean right before then it may not be fuel related.

  25. #25
    Swapped pumps & the new one sounds like the old one before it got quiet. Ran the old one for a few minutes before I took it out & the pressure dropped from 55psi power on car not running to 40PSI or so running at idle. Still on jacks stands, finishing up the rear brakes.

    Pickup is alive with the fresh battery so if it goes down testing can pull it home. Will try to log it.

    Anyone know the part number for the inline can type fuel filter that connects to the hoses using the FORD style push on clips?
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
    Anyone know the part number for the inline can type fuel filter that connects to the hoses using the FORD style push on clips?
    Is this the one you mean? https://www.amazon.com/WIX-Filters-C.../dp/B000C9XZ2O


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

  27. #27
    Looks the same will have to check the dimensions.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  28. #28


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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
    Looks the same will have to check the dimensions.
    Be sure you do. Different size nipples depending on application but at first look they appear the same (or so I've heard...from a friend who made that mistake...yeah, that's it...from a friend...'cause I never would have done that...nope, not a chance...OK, maybe once ).

    Jeff

  29. #29
    Thanks Jeff,

    That's what I was worrying about. Nothing on the can but a fuel flow arrow.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  30. #30
    Before I break then can someone please tell me how to open these fittings

    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  31. #31


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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    There is a horseshoe shaped retainer clip that has to be removed to disengage the fitting from the filter. On the left side of your photo we can see the top (closed part of the "U") of the white clip. On the right side we're looking at the bottom (open end of the "U") of the black clip. There is a tab of sorts on the top of the clips---you should be able to get a flat screwdriver between the tab and stationary part of the fitting to pop the retainer off.

    Jeff

    PS:
    Reinstall the clips back onto the fittings before you try to put the fitting on the filter. If you do this they will spread as you push the fitting beyond the barb on the nipple then snap into place and lock it on once it's fully engaged.

  32. #32
    Senior Member
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    Some of the newer ones, you press the solid part of the horseshoe clip. I about tore one up and eventually pressed on it, slipped right off.
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  33. #33
    OK Thanks, The new filter came with two black plastic pieces that must be fresh clips. Good news if I break one.

    EDIT:

    Clips off, very small screwdriver to start them out & filter swapped. Car started quickly no leaks in the system. Was still on jack stands as I had not finished the bakes. Will test it tomorrow.
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-30-2017 at 05:01 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  34. #34
    Think the dual dragons are dead. One may be slightly alive but its lost most of its bite. Horrid sound on tight right turns looks to be killed. Removed the pads, ground down all the edges & got new shims. The cobra shims had an extra part that was not in the car originally.

    It clipped it the top of the caliper & provides another surface for the pads to slide on. Loosened & retightened the moan brackets. Wheels would spin with hand pressure so I buttoned it up.

    Dragon 2 mostly dead as is the engine dying issue. Changed the fuel pump, filter & right bank O2 sensor. Car feels very strong & sounds crisp. Two of the three fault codes are gone but still have P0059 heater failure. Since its a non-critical fault will run the car for a few circuits clear it & see if it comes back.

    Hope I changed the correct sensor said bank 2 which I believe is the passenger side.

    Auto-X school tomorrow but am wimping out. Will take the 135is rather than chance the COBRA on a run up to Virginia.
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-05-2017 at 01:25 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  35. #35


    Not a waxer
    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
    Hope I changed the correct sensor said bank 2 which I believe is the passenger side.
    Sorry Kevin...cylinder #1 and bank #1 are passenger side. Bank #2 is driver's side.

    Jeff

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
    First AAA Ride Home @ 7,000 miles

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Went out to Bob's to use his lift to see if I could sport the cause of the right hand turn noise. Went for a quick spin to duplicate the noise for Bob.

    Gave the car a quick squirt in 2nd. Car was quick but did not run as hard as usual. Went back & put the car up & found nothing suggesting any contact between parts that are not supposed to touch.

    Bob save me some trouble when it spotted a main power wire that had come loose from a hold down & was rubbing on the drive shaft. Because I has sheathed all my wires only the protection had rubbed through. We wire tied it back in place & I will install a fresh hold down.

    On the was home the engine cut out under load going onto the interstate. Did this once or twice. Not a misfire just zero power. Steady 2500ROM for about 20 miles. Car started not reacting to the gas pedal on upgrades. Would cut out then catch.

    Eventually about 7 miles from home it quit altogether. Called AAA. About 45 minutes we were loaded & on the way.
    Excellent driver. Took care to see the car was not scraped by the chains & dropped it in my garage.

    Shuffled the cars around on the driveway then went it to check the COBRA. It started right up on the key turn.

    Any thoughts?
    __________________
    I had very similar similar experiences to this and it ended up being o2 sensor related. Oil was in the combustion chamber and fouling up the o2 sensor reading. Probably a different cause for you, but that description is dead on what I experienced.

  37. #37
    Ouch, looks like a do over. Thanks for the input.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  38. #38
    I had a similar problem early on. At speeds the engine would cut out momentarily then come back. I decided to run a new ground wire from the negative battery directly to the bolt holding the starter. Problem solved.

    Grounding wire issue for me.

  39. #39
    Hope my grounding is good. At the engine & have a belt type strap from the block to the 4" cross tube.

    oS far on a few quick loops around the neighborhood everything seem good. Lock to lock turns without any noise. Car runs strong. Will hook up my laptop & run some logs to see if anything shows up.

    Just wanted to thank everyone who chipped in with ideas & thoughts, you were all a great help.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

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