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Thread: Srobinsonx2 Bodywork

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by walt mckenna View Post
    Now is the time to make the cockpit a little wider. By removing 1.5" from the top of each door, you will make the cockpit 3" wider. The change is only noticeable on a side-by-side comparison and looks completely natural as if supplied that way. The difference in shoulder/arm room is dramatic with regards to feel and function. Would recommend this on any new build or re-build.
    The only issue I see with this is if the owner wants to fit a tonneau cover. If you remove 1.5" from each door, won't the sides of the tonneau have next to nothing to drape over?
    Last edited by Paintwerks; 05-16-2017 at 07:22 PM.

  2. #42
    Another vitally important element not discussed here and often overlooked, is the use of PPE, or Personal Protection Equipmement as it is known.

    My doc once told me that the finest particles like you find in sanding dust) are the ones that lodge in your lungs and never come out. We all know where that leads.

    I see a lot of DIY guys not using any kind of breathing protection / respirator. Some think that it's ok to use one of those over the face white masks like the plasterers use, but they are woefully inadequate. Best to use a 3M or Sundstrom filtered respirator when performing any sanding tasks. Also, recommend that you use nitrile gloves when mixing and applying filler, and cleaning your tools with solvent. Good idea to wear protective goggles too when mixing and applying filler.

    Just some tips from a pro. Take them for what they are worth!

  3. #43
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    Week #4

    The middle of week 4 and I have logged 31.5 hours. My progress is slower than I wanted. I would like to get an average of 15 hours a week so I am a little behind schedule. I try to work each day but have to stop almost each evening to answer question from the neighbors. They are all interested and impressed. It is fun talking to everyone about the FFR kit but it certainly slows progress. But I will eventually get it done.

    After applying a number of Rage Gold application on the parting lines (3-4 on some) I think I have the shape just about right. The only potential area for additional work on the body parting lines is the passenger rear. From a distance I think I can see a slight difference in the high point of the hump. I think the gas cap area forces the passenger rear wheel hump to be slightly wider and therefore appear a little less "proud". I am going to look at it for a while and think about it. I am sure no one will ever notice. Have others had this issue?

    I started on the hood and trunk tonight. I wanted a little change of pace. Well, sanding the trunk and hood is kind of a pain. All those grooves, curves and humps essentially means it must be sanded mostly with just a piece of sand paper. I have the hood and scoop sanded with 80 grit and almost finished the trunk ( this took me about 1.5 hours).





    If you notice, I have the panels sitting on work stands. I bought the work stands from Eastwood and they were $25 a piece (I got two). So far I like them.

    I am going to keep plugging away with sanding the doors, Rage Gold the top edges of the doors, filling some small chips along the rolled cockpit edges, and HSRF in between the hood layers where I cut the hood scoop.

    I have one question. The hood is not quite in the center of my cut out (see my post 13 above for that issue and picture). I am thinking about "adding" some HSRF to that edge. It will only be cosmetic and visible when the hood is up. Here is what I was thinking. If I used the cut out from the hood, I could clamp it under that side of opening of the hood scoop hole. I could the trowel some 3M HSRF out about and inch wide and match the hood thickness. If I used some home made release agent (maybe some Pam cooking spray) on the clamped piece, it could be pulled off after the HSRF sets. Then I could sand and smooth the HSRF to essentially extend the side of the hood scoop hole that is too short. None of that makes sense I am sure. Maybe I will take some pictures of what I am thinking. What do the experts recommend? I am being lazy and not wanting to lay fiberglass which is probably the right solution.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    I think you can get by with the 30 gallon compressor for priming. When spraying primer, it won't hurt a thing if you have to quit spraying for a couple of minutes to let the compressor catch up. It would not be good if you plan on applying finish coats and had to stop. On the '37 Oze fiberglass body that I did, I tried Evercoat G2, Super Build and Finish Sand. The 4:1 products are easier to mix. The Oze body was quite large and some areas were particularly bad. I estimate that I spent 500 hours on the body prep. I painted my first car before I was 16 and painted 7 more cars and 2 boats before I went off to college at age 23, in 1976. This recent car was the first I'd worked on since then, so I had to learn about all the new paint products. I didn't lose my ability to take a wavy body and make it straight. The current buffing and polishing process is much different than it was 40 year ago.

    Last edited by DaveS53; 05-27-2017 at 08:46 AM.

  5. #45


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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS53 View Post
    I think you can get by with the 30 gallon compressor for priming. When spraying primer, it won't hurt a thing if you have to quit spraying for a couple of minutes to let the compressor catch up...
    I agree mostly BUT...be aware that Slick Sand, Featherfill and similar kick off pretty quickly (to an extent they are just sprayable filler). Lots of guys have not moved fast enough and had it set in the gun. Mix small batches; even though I don't have any issue with my compressor being able to keep up I never prep more than a quart at a time. If you find that you are having much down time while waiting for air you might even want to go with just one pot at a time and may need to clean the gun part way through the session if the product is getting too heavy in the nozzle.

    Jeff

    PS: Pretty car Dave

  6. #46
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    I agree that mixing up the right amount of paint can be tricky and I sure wouldn't want to paint when it was 90 degrees. That's why my shop is heated and air conditioned. I did a lot of painting when it was snowing outside.

    G2 and slick sand products use tubes of MEKP so you can adjust the amount of hardener, so they don't cure so quickly. You could cut down to as little as 1% instead of 2%. One tube is used per quart or 1/2 tube per pint. Cut that in half if it's hot. Mixing a pint at a time would be wise. The next thing you'll need is a place to toss leftover paint. A small amount can be poured onto some cardboard. You can toss it in a plastic bucket too, but don't let it get too thick or the heat may melt the bucket. I've left enough polyester resin in a plastic mixing cup to melt it.

  7. #47
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    Thanks Dave and Jeff. This is all new to me so thanks again for all the tips and tricks. It sure beats learning the hard way. I am continually impressed by all those so eager to help out. It is greatly appreciated.

    My local supply house has SlickSand on the shelf, so that is what I am going to use. I figure I am two weeks away from that step. I want to get everything as smooth and straight as I can so I figure I will probably spray sometime in early June. By that time the temps in the afternoon will be in the 90's. As you mentioned Dave, I won't want to spray then. Since I am doing this at home, I am going to try and spray the SlickSand outside on the driveway. I think I can get a good window if I do this early in the morning. The temps will be low (well low for Texas), in the 70's, and the wind should be it's lowest. Dave, I ordered the primer gun from Summit you recommended. I also have a dryer/filter coming as well. That should allow me to spray the SlickSand. What do you guys think about this plan? With temps in the 70's should I just use the recommended MEKP? Reducer?

    I am about to go sand some more. I will try and finish the trunk lid and knock out a door.

    Thanks again. You guys rock!!!
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  8. #48
    Thought I'd share a little tidbit I ran into with my hood. I fitted/shaped it with spacers set to bring it up to level with the body and it worked great. After painting I installed a rubber seal around the hood opening only to discover it would not sit down low enough on the left front corner. Much head scratching later I realized the fiberglass was built up a lot thicker in that area causing it to be held up slightly by the seal. I ended up trimming the seal very thin in that area to resolve the problem. Had I seen it before paint I would have ground it to the correct thickness. I've never seen it mentioned before so maybe just a one off deal, but worth checking. If just using the rubber bumpers it is a non issue.

    Bob

  9. #49
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    Place a large painting tarp under the body when painting. It's always possible to spill or drip paint and that stuff is not easy to remove. I used a 10' x 17' harbor freight portable garage inside my shop while painting my car. I tried to cover the floor with red rosin paper, but that did not work well, so I finally gave up on trying to keep the floor clean. I once spilled a paint cup, nearly full. All I could do was mop it up some and leave it. The plastic tent kept some of the paint dust contained, but the whole shop eventually started getting covered with fine black dust.


  10. #50


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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS53 View Post
    Place a large painting tarp under the body when painting. It's always possible to spill or drip paint and that stuff is not easy to remove. I used a 10' x 17' harbor freight portable garage inside my shop while painting my car. I tried to cover the floor with red rosin paper, but that did not work well, so I finally gave up on trying to keep the floor clean....
    Interesting...Different strokes for different folks! I tried tarps once and since then I always cover up with rosin paper:



    Couple advantages for me:
    1) Overspray is drawn into the open pores of the paper whereas with a plastic surface like found on the tarps it dries on top but remains loose---basically becomes dust.

    2) Similarly, before the overspray dries on the plastic surface it is sticky and your feet stick to it pulling the tarp around as you move. As you can see in my photo above the rosin paper is still intact and laying down after being all over the body for 4 spray sessions (full black on top of primer, metallic black for stripes, body color and clear).

    3) So easy to clean up! A few slices with a utility knife, roll it up and the floor is untouched. A 500 square foot roll runs about 11 bucks plus a $3 roll of painters tape. Works for me anyway

    Jeff

  11. #51


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    Srobinsonx2,
    My photo in the previous reply brings me to another subject---the body buck. I do most bodywork and all painting on one that has been modified. I cut the front and rear cross sections back away from the wheelwells and then moved the fore and aft outriggers inward, These changes leave me plenty of room to get everywhere with the gun without obstruction. I also added a support at the rear to hold the tail. Here's a few pics I turned up:







    Even after blowing it off and hosing it down following bodywork it's still the dirtiest thing in the garage and I don't want any of that crap blowing loose and into the finish when I'm spraying so I use poly/paper drop cloths like these stapled tight to wrap it up:

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-9-ft-...4-HD/100182153

    Paper side out, plastic side in (for the same reason that I mentioned in the previous reply---so that the overspray soaks into the pores of the paper and gets trapped). DO NOT use visqueen type plastic! The overspray will dry on it and when you make subsequent passes the air flexing the plastic will break paint chips loose and of course you know where they're going to end up...right in that nice clear coat you just laid down Thankfully it didn't happen to me but I watched it happen to someone else and it sure did teach me a lesson!

    Cheers,
    Jeff

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Thought I'd share a little tidbit I ran into with my hood. I fitted/shaped it with spacers set to bring it up to level with the body and it worked great. After painting I installed a rubber seal around the hood opening only to discover it would not sit down low enough on the left front corner. Much head scratching later I realized the fiberglass was built up a lot thicker in that area causing it to be held up slightly by the seal. I ended up trimming the seal very thin in that area to resolve the problem. Had I seen it before paint I would have ground it to the correct thickness. I've never seen it mentioned before so maybe just a one off deal, but worth checking. If just using the rubber bumpers it is a non issue.

    Bob
    Thanks Bob,

    I was planning on using the little bumpers that came with the kit. I have heard others use this strip you are talking about. Do you think it looks better or was it for a better seal? I will go look at the picture I took of your car.
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  13. #53
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    Thanks a lot Jeff. I spent some time last night trying to find the post where you talked about the absorbent drop cloth on the body buck but could find it. I knew you had posted that before somewhere. You just saved me quite a bit of time. I was also planning on cutting the body buck back around the wheel wells but not as aggressively as you suggest. I like what you did and that makes a lot more sense. I will do that this weekend. That will also allow me to add the rear end support that you have . I tried something but it didn't work. I will also get some of the rosin paper as well. I am so going to fashion up a frame to hold the doors like you have done. Man you guys are smart.

    Question for you (or other experts). When spraying (either high build primer or paint) the hood and trunk, how do I get both sides in one painting season? Maybe I don't. With the Slick Sand can I just start by painting the underside, get the doors, then the body. By the time I am done, will the underside of the trunk and hood by dry enough to flip and get them? In your pictures, it appears you some small posts, or pegs, that the trunk and hood sit on. Is that integral to the flip and coating process? I have similar work stands but no pegs, just covered with padding. Sorry for these dumb questions and thanks so much for your time.

    Shannon.
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  14. #54
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    Forgot to post this. My first automotive paint gun. Well, it is just a primer gun but none the less. A first for me.



    I have watch a bunch of Youtube videos on painting techniques. I found a couple of "drills" that I will practice to help teach me some fundamentals. One is without any paint and the others using a craft paint on cardboard. The first one I saw from Kevin Tetz. He said to tape a paint brush to the end of the paint gun so the bristles are about 6 inches from the end of the gun. Then practice moving along the body while keeping the brush bristle tips lightly moving along the body. The second one is spraying water based craft paint on to a cardboard box. Pretend it is a car and "chase the wet edge" as Kevin calls it. Hopefully that will get me a little more comfortable with the equipment and I will learn some fundamentals.
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  15. #55
    Mainly I just liked the look. It does help seal the hood in case you ever got stuck in the rain and the hood feels a bit more solid when shutting it.

    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by srobinsonx2 View Post
    Thanks Bob,

    I was planning on using the little bumpers that came with the kit. I have heard others use this strip you are talking about. Do you think it looks better or was it for a better seal? I will go look at the picture I took of your car.

  16. #56


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    Shannon, I'm traveling this weekend but will post up photos and info on my hood and trunk lid flipping contraptions on Monday. Some guys hang them vertically but I prefer to shoot them in their installed orientation to avoid the potential for metallic "grain" mismatch.

    Jeff

  17. #57

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Interesting...Different strokes for different folks! I tried tarps once and since then I always cover up with rosin paper:



    Couple advantages for me:
    1) Overspray is drawn into the open pores of the paper whereas with a plastic surface like found on the tarps it dries on top but remains loose---basically becomes dust.

    2) Similarly, before the overspray dries on the plastic surface it is sticky and your feet stick to it pulling the tarp around as you move. As you can see in my photo above the rosin paper is still intact and laying down after being all over the body for 4 spray sessions (full black on top of primer, metallic black for stripes, body color and clear).

    3) So easy to clean up! A few slices with a utility knife, roll it up and the floor is untouched. A 500 square foot roll runs about 11 bucks plus a $3 roll of painters tape. Works for me anyway

    Jeff
    Where does one find Rosin Paper typically or does it have another common name?
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  19. #59
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    Home depot has the red paper and brown paper in large rolls.

    When you get down near the end of the roll, it curls up badly, making installation difficult. Spray a lot of epoxy primer and it will become sticky enough to stick to your shoes.

    Here's a product used in home construction, to protect floors. It's 46 mils thick. After laying new hardwood floors, it's used to prevent damage.

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ram-Board...8x50/202823781
    Last edited by DaveS53; 05-20-2017 at 09:08 AM.

  20. #60


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    stick with rosin paper, the brown isn't heavy enough for foot traffic.

    Jeff

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Shannon, I'm traveling this weekend but will post up photos and info on my hood and trunk lid flipping contraptions on Monday. Some guys hang them vertically but I prefer to shoot them in their installed orientation to avoid the potential for metallic "grain" mismatch.

    Jeff
    Thanks Jeff. That will be very helpful and much appreciated.

    Two additional question for the group:

    1. I have reread STL-Scott's thread multiple times and am a little confused about pre primer sanding requirements (I am sure I am making more out of this than is needed). It appears he sanded the body with 180 grit prior to Slick Sand (it looks like you suggested 150 in that thread??). Then he later mentioned 80 grit again. The technical sheet on Slick Sand says sand to a minimum of 80 grit. I also found a post on the other forum where Jeff Miller suggest using 80 grit prior to poly primer. See post #5. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/33-ask-...-prep-kit.html. So, maybe 80 is the way to go? Would 120 be OK to use?

    2. I did not use 3M HSRF on the gap between the two hood layers. Bonehead mistake on my part. I ordered 3M HSRF off Amazon (or so I thought). I didn't carfully read the label until after I was finished applying it (waiting for it to dry). I saw then that is was "Marin Premium Filler". Not the same as far as I can tell. That stuff is now hard and not easily removed. Do you guys think I will be ok leaving that way. I am sure the hood flexes some and will this material hold up as well as HSRF? If I should fix this, how?
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  22. #62
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    Here's link to the slick sand tech sheet. I does not require extremely coarse sanding, prior to application. 120 grit should be fine. Areas where filler work was done can be sanded as fine a 220.

    http://www.evercoat.com/images/ePIM/..._2_2015_EN.pdf

    As for the gap filling, while a fiberglass reinforced product would work, so would other products. If the inner and outer skins were still bonded together and you were only filling gaps, a high strength product would not be required. Gaps between the panels could be tricky to properly prep and clean, prior to bonding. That's just as important as the type of filler used. Now that's the gaps are filled, removing the filler and replacing it with some other product would be tough. I wouldn't bother with it.

    Fiberglass reinforced fillers are most often used whenever filler is applied in excess of 1/8" thick. Just about every brand of filler can be had in a fiberglass reinforced version. I used long strand bondo hair and short strand bondo glass for a number of substantial repairs on my car. I had to completely rebuild two edges around my door openings and the 13' long edge around my trunk opening. Those edges had extremely thick gel coat applied in the mold. The thick gel coat was brittle and just like a sponge - full of holes both big and small. I had to grind about a 1/2" wide chamfer to remove the gel coat and rebuild with reinforced filler. So far, I've had no problems with the repaired areas. The reinforced filler is also prone to have pinholes, so it’s always recommend to only use it for the majority of the fill, then finish with ordinary filler.



    Last edited by DaveS53; 05-27-2017 at 08:08 AM.

  23. #63
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    I wasn't able to do much body work with week. I was out of town on business and spending some time with the family for Memorial Day weekend. I did get the body buck narrowed up like Jeff K suggested. I also did a little more work on the wheel well lips. Here is picture of the new and improved body buck.



    I have another question. I was wearing some leather gloves to do the sanding. I laid them on the body by accident and now I have a stain. I think it is oil and sweat. I tried cleaning it with wax and grease remover but no luck. I sanded on it a little but that didn't help. It will probably be ok but should I sand this down and build it back up or just forget about it. Just don't want this to mess up my paint at some point down the road. Here is a picture.

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  24. #64
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    If acetone won't remove all traces of the stains, it should be sanded down. Don't take chances. There's nothing worse than a failed paint job due to the lack of an extra hour of work. You should have acetone around. You'll need a lot to clean up your gun after spraying polyester primer.
    Last edited by DaveS53; 05-27-2017 at 08:50 AM.

  25. #65


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    Quote Originally Posted by srobinsonx2 View Post

    Question for you (or other experts). When spraying (either high build primer or paint) the hood and trunk, how do I get both sides in one painting season? ...
    Here ya' go Shannon:

    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...d=1#post281442

    Cheers,
    Jeff

  26. #66
    Senior Member Straversi's Avatar
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    Here ya' go Shannon:
    Cheers,
    Jeff

    This forum amazes me sometimes. That's a heck of a lot of experience handed over just because someone asked. Cheers to you Jeff and to all the wise ones who keep us newbies going!
    -Steve
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  27. #67
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    Thanks so much Jeff. This site really is awesome. It is made possible by a bunch of fantastic folks.

    I am not going to be able to work on the car until this weekend. Something has come up and I have to travel for work this week......again. My day job is really getting in the way.

    I will start working on the "JeffK panel apparatus" this weekend. The first coat of Slick Sand might have to wait until the next weekend.
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  28. #68
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    Week #6

    Well, I got back in town and got a little work done on the bodywork. After a few honey do's I got about 6 hours of work this weekend. After 6 weeks I have 50 hours on the bodywork. Not at the pace I wanted but I do have a day job and these little breaks keep my excitement up for continuing progress.

    Thanks again to Jeff K for the panel holders and flip apparatus. That was my main focus this weekend. Here is a picture of the door panel holder:



    I also mounted the eye bolts and all thread on the hood and trunk lids.





    I also finished up a few items. One was the rolled edge on the top edge of the doors. I used a small piece of radiator hose as a trowel for the Rage Gold on this edge. I cut it in half and it worked pretty well. I put the Rage Gold on the door edge with one of my trusty yellow spreaders. Kind of just spread it along the edge as best I could. Then I used the half piece of radiator hose to make it as smooth as I could. Here is the tool and the first application of Rage Gold.



    I also cleaned up the wheel wells. I know that no one will every look up under the edge but I just wasn't happy with a few uneven areas. It seems like the fiberglass is a little thick in a few areas. So I decided to use some filler to fix this. My plan is to paint about a 1 inch inside the lip. Hopefully this will give this area a finished look. Here is a picture of the rear passenger wheel well lip.



    I hope to be able to spray some Slick Sand next weekend. I have a few areas to touch up, I want to lightly block the car one more time with 80 grit, and get the parts all cleaned up. I also plan to practice with my primer gun. I have never sprayed paint or primer before so I am going to get some water based craft paint and give it go on some cardboard.

    Wish me luck and let me know if you see any things I missed.
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  29. #69
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    Mid week update

    I wanted to share a quick update and ask a question or two.

    First, If any of you had been following my build thread, I posted some color samples I was considering. Now that I have committed to painting the car myself, I felt like I needed to get a paint option (2 stage) that I could manage. The silver I have selected is paint code ID6, which is Toyota's Silver Sky Metallic. The red I have finalized on is ARH, which is Chrysler Blaze Red Crystal Pearl. I order some samples in aerosol cans from Automotivetouchup.com. Here is my final color combo selection:



    Second, I decided to make one more pass over the car with 80 grit in preparation for Slick Sand. I spent extra time to make sure I got all the difficult areas like around the hood, trunk, door and nose. Those areas had a few areas with "slick" gel coat. I then blew it off with compressed air and wiped it down with a microfiber towel. I used a cheap microfiber towel my wife had for cleaning in the house. Just don't tell her I took two. They work great for grabbing all the dust that the compressed air missed. I don't usually sand inside my garage but if I did, this would be a great way to clean up after using a vacuum. It works really well. It is like a dust magnet.



    Now my question. After the blowing and wiping the car down with the microfiber, I wiped the entire body down twice with wax and grease remover. I noticed something strange. At the front of the body, where it rests on the body buck, I noticed some very fine cracks in the gelcoat. They don't appear to be in the fiberglass but since I have covered the underside of the body with black bed liner it is hard to be 100% certain. These spider cracks are not visible with the body dry. I can only see them when I spray wax and grease remover and it has evaporated from around it. When I investigated, the pipe insulation I used between the body and the buck had compressed and the very edge of the plywood support was slightly touching he body. It is on both sides in about the same spot. I pressed hard on these areas, shined a light from underneath, and shined a light from above. I can't see any fiberglass damage. Here is a picture :



    What do you guys think? I would hate to ignore it and then have it show up after paint. If it needs some attention, what is the best way to address something like this?

    I was hoping to spray Slick Sand Saturday morning but it might depend on how i need to address these areas.

    Thanks in advance.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    3 Link Rear Suspension
    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
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  30. #70
    Thanks for posting this last one ... I need to check my car today since I am getting ready for the first primer coat .
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  31. #71
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    Carl,

    I did a quick search online a found a number of links about cracks in gelcoat on boats. Here is one that talks about how to repair them. Hopefully you don't find any but if you do, please share how you resolve them.

    http://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/ma...cks-fiberglass

    It sounds like if they are not into the fiberglass then they are cosmetic. Also the main concern seems to be water getting between the gel coat and underlying layers. One of the fixes was to grind them out and fill it with polyester filler. Since that is what I am using(Rage Gold and Slick Sand), I think I would be ok to just spray Slick Sand right over the top. My cracks are not even visible without using a substance that will get in the crack and stay while the remaining either gets wiped off or evaporates. That is why the wax and grease remover highlighted them. Anyway, I should probably wait and see what some of the experts advise.

    Thanks.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
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    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

  32. #72
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    I found this type of crack on one of the fenders on my car, but it had been driven for 1200 miles with no undercoating, before it was torn down for paint. I suspected a crack from a rock hit. Sanding through the gel coat and applying some acetone to the area showed the crack to be in the fiberglass. I then sanded off the Lizard Skin material from the underside, used a 3" sanding disc to sand clear through the body and applied new mat and resin from both sides to restore the area.

    At some point you should be wiping the body with acetone, before applying the primer. Final wiping should be done with brand new wiping rags or special paper wipers. Never use rags that have been washed and dried at home. If anti-static dryer sheets have been used in the dryer, it will contaminate the rags. Don't use blue paper shop towels with acetone.

    If you sand through the gel coat and don't see any evidence of cracks in fiberglass after applying some acetone, then you should be able to just use the Rage filler to repair the area.

  33. #73
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    Thanks Dave. I will sand the gelcoat down when i get home this afternnon. Hopefully I won't find any fiberglass damage and can fill with Rage Gold. My goal is to get this thing in primer so I can start final panel fitment and driver side door filler.

    Wish me luck.

    Also, thanks for the acetone tip. I didnt know to do that.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    3 Link Rear Suspension
    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

  34. #74
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    Here's a good wiping material that can handle acetone, lacquer thinner and urethane thinner.

    http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/merf...s-p-12916.aspx

    Here's what the top side of my star crack repair looked like, before fiberglassing. Notice the neat, clean and organized shop.



    A large area on the underside was also prepped and all the 'glass applied at once, to sandwich the old and new.

    Last edited by DaveS53; 06-09-2017 at 10:28 AM.

  35. #75
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    Lol. Thanks. Looks like my garage.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    3 Link Rear Suspension
    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

  36. #76
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    Pre primer update

    I wanted to spray some Slick Sand Saturday morning but had some delays. One was the spider cracking I posted about earlier. I took Dave's advice and fixed it. I first ground it out using my die grinder and a 36 grit pad. I took my time and tried to just remove the gel coat.



    Once it was removed I cleaned it good with acetone. While doing this I inspected for cracking in the fiberglass. I could not see any fiberglass damage on either the passenger or driver side. So with the area cleaned, I filled both with Rage Gold, sanded, filled again, sanded, and ended with a patch that I think should provide a good foundation. Let me know if you guys disagree.



    I am getting better with the Rage Gold. I feel like I can apply it before it starts to set (although I can't doddle) and have the hang of sanding it down. I start with 40 grit to get the shape then finish this stage up with 80 grit in preparation for primer.

    I then spent some time finishing the JeffK flip apparatus. Those are now complete, tested and should be good to go. I also wiped the entire body and all panel down again with wax and grease remover. I then wiped everything down again with acetone like was recommended by Dave. I have everything prepped and ready for primer. I think I am going to try and spray the Slick Sand tomorrow morning first thing. I am just a little nervous about the spray gun I bought. Not that it won't work but this is my first time using a HVLP style gun. To get familiar and to tested it, I sprayed some latex onto some cardboard. I wanted to see how it would spray a thick material. It did ok and I tried some different pressure setting, fan, and fluid settings. The pressure setting and fan setting seemed to make a difference but the fluid throughput setting didn't make much difference but that could have been because of the thick latex. Anyway, I will lay down some plastic in the driveway tomorrow morning early and take a stab at it. Wish me luck
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    3 Link Rear Suspension
    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

  37. #77
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    Just be sure you've removed the filter screen where the cup screws onto the gun. I didn't see it when I first got this gun and clogged it up quickly with the high build primer.

    Your repair of the cracked gel coat looks good.

  38. #78
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    Primer is on!!!!

    Well I got it done. No big issues but some serious learning. First some pictures:





    I sprayed a gallon and it went well. I got three coats on the body but only two coats on the panels. Next time I will be able to get a little thinner and probable get better coverage. I would really love some critiquing here so I can improve. Let me know what you think about my method, technique, and application:

    1. Using the primer gun listed above in post 54 (2.3mm tip). Set the pressure to 3 bars (40-45 psi) at the gun inlet with the trigger pressed.
    2. Using the 3M PPS regular size which is 20.3 oz or about 500 ml.
    3. Mixed up 480 ml of slicksand, added the appropriate amount of catalyst and mixed.
    4. Sprayed then cleaned the gun.
    5. Started over.

    So the first batch I sprayed went much faster than I thought and only cover about 1/2 the body. I think I was spaying it too thick (moved too slow and too close). I noticed quite a bit of orange peel (at least I think that is what it is). The second batch I moved faster with more overlap and a little further away. That seemed to help but the primer still wasn't perfectly smooth. That batch allowed me to finish covering the body. I then realized I was not going get to 3 full coats on everything and may not even get 2 if I don't apply the material a little thinner.
    The third batch allowed me to cover the panels and a little on the body. Batch 4 I covered the body almost completely. Batch 5 I finished the body for the second time and got the panels covered a second time. My final batch I thinned with about 10% acetone. That batch sprayed alot better and seemed to be smoother. That batch covered the entire body but really nothing left for the panels.

    I then took the PPS liner from the final batch and used a Qtip to fill all the pinholes (thanks to the experts for that tip). Here is picture of the pin holes and a close up on the finish.



    I can still see some of the 40/80 grit sanding marks but they might sand out, we will see. I plan on getting the body back on the chasis, fit the panels, and then block it out with 180 grit (using a guide coat of course). Does 180 grit sound right at this point?

    Thanks as let me know if you see any issues.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    3 Link Rear Suspension
    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

  39. #79


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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    You're doing OK but except for your final pass after getting a good heavy coverage you really don't want to thin high build products like Slick Sand; that kind of defeats the purpose. I generally put on at least 2 full gallons on the first round, often 2 1/2. After the panel matching and prior to paint they get another 1.5 to 2 gallons. As you found if you thin your final pass about 10% with acetone or reducer it will lay down a little slicker to reduce sanding. In the end I'd say you need more SS on the body but you can make that up on your second round after panel matching. I don't bother with guide coats; you can clearly see the high/low color change in the Slick Sand.

    Carry on and good luck!

    Jeff

  40. #80
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    Thanks Jeff. That make sense. I will do as you recommended and put on more SS after panel fitment (3-4 total). Since Im going to be spraying more SS, I think I will skip the block sanding this first application. Does that sound ok? Here is what I was thinking of doing. Sound OK?

    1. Put the body back on the chassis
    2. Fit panels and fix the driver side door problem.
    3. Skip the block sanding (let me know if you think this is OK) I might knock down the pin holes I filled.
    4. Remove the body and panel from the chassis
    5. Spray 2 gallons of SlickSand on the body and panels
    6. Block the body with 180/200grit then with ~300 grit.

    Sorry for all these elementary questions. I have been reading as many of the bodywork threads as I can but get differing opinions. Thanks guys. This site is awesome and a great resource for guys like me that are trying to do this for the first time.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    3 Link Rear Suspension
    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

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