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Thread: Srobinsonx2 Bodywork

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by walt mckenna View Post
    Now is the time to make the cockpit a little wider. By removing 1.5" from the top of each door, you will make the cockpit 3" wider. The change is only noticeable on a side-by-side comparison and looks completely natural as if supplied that way. The difference in shoulder/arm room is dramatic with regards to feel and function. Would recommend this on any new build or re-build.
    The only issue I see with this is if the owner wants to fit a tonneau cover. If you remove 1.5" from each door, won't the sides of the tonneau have next to nothing to drape over?
    Last edited by Paintwerks; 05-16-2017 at 07:22 PM.

  2. #42
    Another vitally important element not discussed here and often overlooked, is the use of PPE, or Personal Protection Equipmement as it is known.

    My doc once told me that the finest particles like you find in sanding dust) are the ones that lodge in your lungs and never come out. We all know where that leads.

    I see a lot of DIY guys not using any kind of breathing protection / respirator. Some think that it's ok to use one of those over the face white masks like the plasterers use, but they are woefully inadequate. Best to use a 3M or Sundstrom filtered respirator when performing any sanding tasks. Also, recommend that you use nitrile gloves when mixing and applying filler, and cleaning your tools with solvent. Good idea to wear protective goggles too when mixing and applying filler.

    Just some tips from a pro. Take them for what they are worth!

  3. #43

    Week #4

    The middle of week 4 and I have logged 31.5 hours. My progress is slower than I wanted. I would like to get an average of 15 hours a week so I am a little behind schedule. I try to work each day but have to stop almost each evening to answer question from the neighbors. They are all interested and impressed. It is fun talking to everyone about the FFR kit but it certainly slows progress. But I will eventually get it done.

    After applying a number of Rage Gold application on the parting lines (3-4 on some) I think I have the shape just about right. The only potential area for additional work on the body parting lines is the passenger rear. From a distance I think I can see a slight difference in the high point of the hump. I think the gas cap area forces the passenger rear wheel hump to be slightly wider and therefore appear a little less "proud". I am going to look at it for a while and think about it. I am sure no one will ever notice. Have others had this issue?

    I started on the hood and trunk tonight. I wanted a little change of pace. Well, sanding the trunk and hood is kind of a pain. All those grooves, curves and humps essentially means it must be sanded mostly with just a piece of sand paper. I have the hood and scoop sanded with 80 grit and almost finished the trunk ( this took me about 1.5 hours).





    If you notice, I have the panels sitting on work stands. I bought the work stands from Eastwood and they were $25 a piece (I got two). So far I like them.

    I am going to keep plugging away with sanding the doors, Rage Gold the top edges of the doors, filling some small chips along the rolled cockpit edges, and HSRF in between the hood layers where I cut the hood scoop.

    I have one question. The hood is not quite in the center of my cut out (see my post 13 above for that issue and picture). I am thinking about "adding" some HSRF to that edge. It will only be cosmetic and visible when the hood is up. Here is what I was thinking. If I used the cut out from the hood, I could clamp it under that side of opening of the hood scoop hole. I could the trowel some 3M HSRF out about and inch wide and match the hood thickness. If I used some home made release agent (maybe some Pam cooking spray) on the clamped piece, it could be pulled off after the HSRF sets. Then I could sand and smooth the HSRF to essentially extend the side of the hood scoop hole that is too short. None of that makes sense I am sure. Maybe I will take some pictures of what I am thinking. What do the experts recommend? I am being lazy and not wanting to lay fiberglass which is probably the right solution.
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  4. #44
    I think you can get by with the 30 gallon compressor for priming. When spraying primer, it won't hurt a thing if you have to quit spraying for a couple of minutes to let the compressor catch up. It would no be good if you plan on applying finish coats and had to stop. On the '37 Oze fiberglass body that I did, I tried Evercoat G2, Super Build and Finish Sand. The 4:1 products are easier to mix. The Oze body was quite large and some areas were particularly bad. I estimate that I spent 500 hours on the body prep. I painted my first car before I was 16 and painted 7 more cars and 2 boats before I went off to college at age 23, in 1976. This recent car was the first I'd worked on since then, so I had to learn about all the new paint products. I didn't lose my ability to take a wavy body and make it straight. The current buffing and polishing process is much different than it was 40 year ago.


  5. #45


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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS53 View Post
    I think you can get by with the 30 gallon compressor for priming. When spraying primer, it won't hurt a thing if you have to quit spraying for a couple of minutes to let the compressor catch up...
    I agree mostly BUT...be aware that Slick Sand, Featherfill and similar kick off pretty quickly (to an extent they are just sprayable filler). Lots of guys have not moved fast enough and had it set in the gun. Mix small batches; even though I don't have any issue with my compressor being able to keep up I never prep more than a quart at a time. If you find that you are having much down time while waiting for air you might even want to go with just one pot at a time and may need to clean the gun part way through the session if the product is getting too heavy in the nozzle.

    Jeff

    PS: Pretty car Dave

  6. #46
    I agree that mixing up the right amount of paint can be tricky and I sure wouldn't want to paint when it was 90 degrees. That's why my shop is heated and air conditioned. I did a lot of painting when it was snowing outside.

    G2 and slick sand products use tubes of MEKP so you can adjust the amount of hardener, so they don't cure so quickly. You could cut down to as little as 1% instead of 2%. One tube is used per quart or 1/2 tube per pint. Cut that in half if it's hot. Mixing a pint at a time would be wise. The next thing you'll need is a place to toss leftover paint. A small amount can be poured onto some cardboard. You can toss it in a plastic bucket too, but don't let it get too thick or the heat may melt the bucket. I've left enough polyester resin in a plastic mixing cup to melt it.

  7. #47
    Thanks Dave and Jeff. This is all new to me so thanks again for all the tips and tricks. It sure beats learning the hard way. I am continually impressed by all those so eager to help out. It is greatly appreciated.

    My local supply house has SlickSand on the shelf, so that is what I am going to use. I figure I am two weeks away from that step. I want to get everything as smooth and straight as I can so I figure I will probably spray sometime in early June. By that time the temps in the afternoon will be in the 90's. As you mentioned Dave, I won't want to spray then. Since I am doing this at home, I am going to try and spray the SlickSand outside on the driveway. I think I can get a good window if I do this early in the morning. The temps will be low (well low for Texas), in the 70's, and the wind should be it's lowest. Dave, I ordered the primer gun from Summit you recommended. I also have a dryer/filter coming as well. That should allow me to spray the SlickSand. What do you guys think about this plan? With temps in the 70's should I just use the recommended MEKP? Reducer?

    I am about to go sand some more. I will try and finish the trunk lid and knock out a door.

    Thanks again. You guys rock!!!
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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  8. #48
    Thought I'd share a little tidbit I ran into with my hood. I fitted/shaped it with spacers set to bring it up to level with the body and it worked great. After painting I installed a rubber seal around the hood opening only to discover it would not sit down low enough on the left front corner. Much head scratching later I realized the fiberglass was built up a lot thicker in that area causing it to be held up slightly by the seal. I ended up trimming the seal very thin in that area to resolve the problem. Had I seen it before paint I would have ground it to the correct thickness. I've never seen it mentioned before so maybe just a one off deal, but worth checking. If just using the rubber bumpers it is a non issue.

    Bob

  9. #49
    Place a large painting tarp under the body when painting. It's always possible to spill or drip paint and that stuff is not easy to remove. I used a 10' x 17' harbor freight portable garage inside my shop while painting my car. I tried to cover the floor with red rosin paper, but that did not work well, so I finally gave up on trying to keep the floor clean. I once spilled a paint cup, nearly full. All I could do was mop it up some and leave it. The plastic tent kept some of the paint dust contained, but the whole shop eventually started getting covered with fine black dust.


  10. #50


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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS53 View Post
    Place a large painting tarp under the body when painting. It's always possible to spill or drip paint and that stuff is not easy to remove. I used a 10' x 17' harbor freight portable garage inside my shop while painting my car. I tried to cover the floor with red rosin paper, but that did not work well, so I finally gave up on trying to keep the floor clean....
    Interesting...Different strokes for different folks! I tried tarps once and since then I always cover up with rosin paper:



    Couple advantages for me:
    1) Overspray is drawn into the open pores of the paper whereas with a plastic surface like found on the tarps it dries on top but remains loose---basically becomes dust.

    2) Similarly, before the overspray dries on the plastic surface it is sticky and your feet stick to it pulling the tarp around as you move. As you can see in my photo above the rosin paper is still intact and laying down after being all over the body for 4 spray sessions (full black on top of primer, metallic black for stripes, body color and clear).

    3) So easy to clean up! A few slices with a utility knife, roll it up and the floor is untouched. A 500 square foot roll runs about 11 bucks plus a $3 roll of painters tape. Works for me anyway

    Jeff

  11. #51


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    Srobinsonx2,
    My photo in the previous reply brings me to another subject---the body buck. I do most bodywork and all painting on one that has been modified. I cut the front and rear cross sections back away from the wheelwells and then moved the fore and aft outriggers inward, These changes leave me plenty of room to get everywhere with the gun without obstruction. I also added a support at the rear to hold the tail. Here's a few pics I turned up:







    Even after blowing it off and hosing it down following bodywork it's still the dirtiest thing in the garage and I don't want any of that crap blowing loose and into the finish when I'm spraying so I use poly/paper drop cloths like these stapled tight to wrap it up:

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-9-ft-...4-HD/100182153

    Paper side out, plastic side in (for the same reason that I mentioned in the previous reply---so that the overspray soaks into the pores of the paper and gets trapped). DO NOT use visqueen type plastic! The overspray will dry on it and when you make subsequent passes the air flexing the plastic will break paint chips loose and of course you know where they're going to end up...right in that nice clear coat you just laid down Thankfully it didn't happen to me but I watched it happen to someone else and it sure did teach me a lesson!

    Cheers,
    Jeff

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by bobl View Post
    Thought I'd share a little tidbit I ran into with my hood. I fitted/shaped it with spacers set to bring it up to level with the body and it worked great. After painting I installed a rubber seal around the hood opening only to discover it would not sit down low enough on the left front corner. Much head scratching later I realized the fiberglass was built up a lot thicker in that area causing it to be held up slightly by the seal. I ended up trimming the seal very thin in that area to resolve the problem. Had I seen it before paint I would have ground it to the correct thickness. I've never seen it mentioned before so maybe just a one off deal, but worth checking. If just using the rubber bumpers it is a non issue.

    Bob
    Thanks Bob,

    I was planning on using the little bumpers that came with the kit. I have heard others use this strip you are talking about. Do you think it looks better or was it for a better seal? I will go look at the picture I took of your car.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

  13. #53
    Thanks a lot Jeff. I spent some time last night trying to find the post where you talked about the absorbent drop cloth on the body buck but could find it. I knew you had posted that before somewhere. You just saved me quite a bit of time. I was also planning on cutting the body buck back around the wheel wells but not as aggressively as you suggest. I like what you did and that makes a lot more sense. I will do that this weekend. That will also allow me to add the rear end support that you have . I tried something but it didn't work. I will also get some of the rosin paper as well. I am so going to fashion up a frame to hold the doors like you have done. Man you guys are smart.

    Question for you (or other experts). When spraying (either high build primer or paint) the hood and trunk, how do I get both sides in one painting season? Maybe I don't. With the Slick Sand can I just start by painting the underside, get the doors, then the body. By the time I am done, will the underside of the trunk and hood by dry enough to flip and get them? In your pictures, it appears you some small posts, or pegs, that the trunk and hood sit on. Is that integral to the flip and coating process? I have similar work stands but no pegs, just covered with padding. Sorry for these dumb questions and thanks so much for your time.

    Shannon.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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  14. #54
    Forgot to post this. My first automotive paint gun. Well, it is just a primer gun but none the less. A first for me.



    I have watch a bunch of Youtube videos on painting techniques. I found a couple of "drills" that I will practice to help teach me some fundamentals. One is without any paint and the others using a craft paint on cardboard. The first one I saw from Kevin Tetz. He said to tape a paint brush to the end of the paint gun so the bristles are about 6 inches from the end of the gun. Then practice moving along the body while keeping the brush bristle tips lightly moving along the body. The second one is spraying water based craft paint on to a cardboard box. Pretend it is a car and "chase the wet edge" as Kevin calls it. Hopefully that will get me a little more comfortable with the equipment and I will learn some fundamentals.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    3 Link Rear Suspension
    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

  15. #55
    Mainly I just liked the look. It does help seal the hood in case you ever got stuck in the rain and the hood feels a bit more solid when shutting it.

    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by srobinsonx2 View Post
    Thanks Bob,

    I was planning on using the little bumpers that came with the kit. I have heard others use this strip you are talking about. Do you think it looks better or was it for a better seal? I will go look at the picture I took of your car.

  16. #56


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    Shannon, I'm traveling this weekend but will post up photos and info on my hood and trunk lid flipping contraptions on Monday. Some guys hang them vertically but I prefer to shoot them in their installed orientation to avoid the potential for metallic "grain" mismatch.

    Jeff

  17. #57

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Interesting...Different strokes for different folks! I tried tarps once and since then I always cover up with rosin paper:



    Couple advantages for me:
    1) Overspray is drawn into the open pores of the paper whereas with a plastic surface like found on the tarps it dries on top but remains loose---basically becomes dust.

    2) Similarly, before the overspray dries on the plastic surface it is sticky and your feet stick to it pulling the tarp around as you move. As you can see in my photo above the rosin paper is still intact and laying down after being all over the body for 4 spray sessions (full black on top of primer, metallic black for stripes, body color and clear).

    3) So easy to clean up! A few slices with a utility knife, roll it up and the floor is untouched. A 500 square foot roll runs about 11 bucks plus a $3 roll of painters tape. Works for me anyway

    Jeff
    Where does one find Rosin Paper typically or does it have another common name?
    MK IV complete Kit - 1st time builder started Sept 2016
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  19. #59
    Home depot has the red paper and brown paper in large rolls.

    When you get down near the end of the roll, it curls up badly, making installation difficult. Spray a lot of epoxy primer and it will become sticky enough to stick to your shoes.

    Here's a product used in home construction, to protect floors. It's 46 mils thick. After laying new hardwood floors, it's used to prevent damage.

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ram-Board...8x50/202823781
    Last edited by DaveS53; 05-20-2017 at 09:08 AM.

  20. #60


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    stick with rosin paper, the brown isn't heavy enough for foot traffic.

    Jeff

  21. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Shannon, I'm traveling this weekend but will post up photos and info on my hood and trunk lid flipping contraptions on Monday. Some guys hang them vertically but I prefer to shoot them in their installed orientation to avoid the potential for metallic "grain" mismatch.

    Jeff
    Thanks Jeff. That will be very helpful and much appreciated.

    Two additional question for the group:

    1. I have reread STL-Scott's thread multiple times and am a little confused about pre primer sanding requirements (I am sure I am making more out of this than is needed). It appears he sanded the body with 180 grit prior to Slick Sand (it looks like you suggested 150 in that thread??). Then he later mentioned 80 grit again. The technical sheet on Slick Sand says sand to a minimum of 80 grit. I also found a post on the other forum where Jeff Miller suggest using 80 grit prior to poly primer. See post #5. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/33-ask-...-prep-kit.html. So, maybe 80 is the way to go? Would 120 be OK to use?

    2. I did not use 3M HSRF on the gap between the two hood layers. Bonehead mistake on my part. I ordered 3M HSRF off Amazon (or so I thought). I didn't carfully read the label until after I was finished applying it (waiting for it to dry). I saw then that is was "Marin Premium Filler". Not the same as far as I can tell. That stuff is now hard and not easily removed. Do you guys think I will be ok leaving that way. I am sure the hood flexes some and will this material hold up as well as HSRF? If I should fix this, how?
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    3 Link Rear Suspension
    Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017
    First Go Kart March 5, 2017

  22. #62
    Here's link to the slick sand tech sheet. I does not require extremely coarse sanding, prior to application. 120 grit should be fine. Areas where filler work was done can be sanded as fine a 220.

    http://www.evercoat.com/images/ePIM/..._2_2015_EN.pdf

    As for the gap filling, while a fiberglass reinforced product would work, so would other products. If the inner and outer skins were still bonded together and you were only filling gaps, a high strength product would not be required. Gaps between the panels could be tricky to properly prep and clean, prior to bonding. That's just as important as the type of filler used. Now that's the gaps are filled, removing the filler and replacing it with some other product would be tough. I wouldn't bother with it.

    Fiberglass reinforced fillers are most often used whenever filler is applied in excess of 1/8" thick. Just about every brand of filler can be had in a fiberglass reinforced version. I used long strand bondo hair and short strand bondo glass for a number of substantial repairs on my car. I had to completely rebuild two edges around my door openings and the 13' long edge around my trunk opening. Those edges had extremely thick gel coat applied in the mold. The thick gel coat was brittle and just like a sponge - full of holes both big and large. I had to grind about a 1/2" wide chamfer to remove the gel coat and rebuild with reinforced filler. So far, I've had no problems with the repaired areas. The reinforced filler is also prone to have pinholes, so it’s always recommend to only use it for the majority of the fill, then finish with ordinary filler.




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