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Thread: Srobinsonx2 Bodywork

  1. #281
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Thanks 1volfan. I just hope I can help others. This has been fun. I have learned a bunch. Like I have said before, I could not have done it without the help from the great group of folks on this site.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  2. #282
    Senior Member Duke's Avatar
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    Nice work.

    To save paint when mixing up small batches I like to use disposable plastic eye droppers. You can count the drops to get perfect small batch ratios. It's helpful when you only have a little paint left, or are saving a half can for another paint job.

  3. #283
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Help!!!!

    I have a big problem. I was trying to remove the sweat spots today on the passenger rear fender. I had sanded on an area for a while with 1000 grit and had just got the spots removed. Was a little worried about removing too much clear. I wanted to buff it to see how that small area would look. Sanded with 1500 grit. Buffed lightly with the 1st compound. This is what I saw



    Red on my wool pad is not good at all. I looked really close and think I can see the spot where the clear is gone. I tried to take a picture but couldn't get it to show up. If I get in the right light, I can just make out the area. WHAT SHOULD I DO?????? Can I spot in some clear and sand the area smooth? I also thought I could tape up to the edge of the stripe, and the back of the door (right in the corner) and spray the whole back fender. I am not a happy camper.

    Hopefully Miller or Kleiner can chime in with some words of wisdom. Do any of you other guys have advice?
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  4. #284
    That is a bummer! Curios to see what the pros have to say.
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  5. #285
    had it happen to me and a pro painter told me to dust some color lightly over the area and the I cleared the whole panel with a couple of coats.

  6. #286
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alv69 View Post
    had it happen to me and a pro painter told me to dust some color lightly over the area and the I cleared the whole panel with a couple of coats.
    I am afraid you are right. In preparation for something like this I had watch a couple of videos. Most say exactly what you have said. There are a couple of references into spotting in clear. It sounds like a process that requires quite a bit of skill. From what I can tell, it requires a reducer to allow the spot repair to "melt" into the surrounding clear. Probably beyond my skill set. I can easily spot repair the color burn through. I had to do that on the underside of the hood when a bug decided to do the happy dance in my fresh clear. The question I have is where to do I stop "the panel". I think some obvious breaks would be the stripes along the back. The one area that might show will be where I stop at the door. If I tape right in the corner, it might not be very visible.

    I guess this is all part of learning. Painful way to learn. How else does a guy with a day job going to learn how to paint, cut and buff without making a few mistakes? I am sure I can fix it, just a little frustrating.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
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  7. #287
    Senior Member Duke's Avatar
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    What I typically do: If it's a full panel (door/hood/etc) Lightly sand with 800 or 1000 and hit it with 2 more coats of clear. If it's rolled into another body (e.g. one of our fenders that has a one piece body) I sand over a larger area, usually most of the quarter panel and try to end it near a harder transition/body contour. Mix up a batch of clear (usually reduced by 20-40% or so) and lay two coats down. First coat I go shallow of the sanding edge (4-6 inches shallow of my sanding marks), second coat overlap and go 2-4 inches from the edge. This layers it down a little better rather than making it a hard transition and a little easier to sand flat again.

    What not to do: Just leave it and polish it out. Your clear is the protection. The color offers zero protection from the elements.

    Keep at it and don't stress about it. It's normal actually to screw up a lot on your first time, especially solo. It's how you learn. By the time you are done it will look perfect (even though you will be able to pick out the spots you know aren't 100%).

  8. #288
    All of us that read this thread are just in awe of your work and willingness to share the ups and downs. With the aid of the experts and your very obvious skills this challenge will also be overcome ... Hang in there and keep posting PLEASE so we all learn.

    Thanks Mucho,

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  9. #289
    Senior Member DaveS53's Avatar
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    The idea that colored paint must be cleared is incorrect. Some urethane paints may be base coats only, but single stage urethane paints are available, particularly in nonmetallic colors.

    My black car is essentially a single stage paint - two coats of straight black, followed by 4-5 coats of black mixed 50/50 with clear. That advice is from Ridler award winning painter Charlie Hutton. The black paint can also be applied without any clear coats, but of course you have to put enough coats on to insure that you won't buff through.

    Obviously, if you're going to stripe a car, clear coat is a must.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by srobinsonx2 View Post
    I am not a happy camper.

    Quote Originally Posted by srobinsonx2 View Post





    Actually, I think you should be thrilled with your results - Buffing problems and all. I have enjoyed this thread and have learned a lot. I hope I have the courage to do the work that you are doing. As a reminder, look what you've accomplished on your first attempt. AMAZING!

    Keep your chin up!

    Great Job!
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
    Greenhorn and doing the best I can
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  11. #291
    Member Gromit's Avatar
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    Keep reminding yourself it all can be fixed... what a great accomplishment to be able to say.. built it and painted it myself. yes it's bummer that you have to redo a small part of already difficult work but remind yourself each time you go back over a step you are better and better. go back and look at what you had going on when you where spraying primer and starting into sealer and color. your skills are better now than then. Keep going your an inspiration to any one thinking of taking on a DIY paint job.

    Chris aka Gromit

  12. #292
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Thanks

    Thanks for the pep talk guys. This bodywork has been a roller coaster for sure. Some really high points and some pretty discouraging ones. I have tried my best to document all my mistakes so you guys get most of the lows. Maybe, just maybe someone can learn from my errors. I have enjoyed the learning process but it is painful at times. So thanks for the words of encouragement. With all that said......MY DADDY DIDN'T RAISE NO QUITTER!!! So it's time to suck it up, put on my big boy paints, roll up my sleeves, and finish this thing.

    Here we go. Talked to Miller. Man that guy is great. He confirmed I need to spot repair the color and then clear the whole panel. We talked about taping off the car and some tricks on that process. More to follow. First, I was able to get a picture of the burn through. Look right at the light reflection. I hit everything with 800 wet to give it a good tooth for the color and clear to bite onto.



    I then taped off the car, swept and mopped the floor, and wiped the panel down (no solvent) with just water.



    I also set up some lights. I don't think I am going to cover the floor. The turbine sprayer I am using doesn't produce much overspray, plus the floor could use a little shine. I also followed the advice of Miller on taping off the edges. I ran some regular masking tape about an 1/8" for the edge of the stripe and the corner of the panel where it meets the door seal. I then put a piece of 1/4" fine line tape from the edge of the stripe/corner and over the edge of the masking tape. I left the ends of the fine line tape sticking up. The plan is to clear just barely up to the line (1/2 a pass) on the first coat of clear. I will then put a full coat right up to the edge on the second round. After the second coat, I will immediately put the gun down and remove the fine line tape. This will allow the clear to "flow out" and sort of round off on the edge. This will help minimize a hard clear line. I will let everyone know how it goes. Here is a pic of the tape if someone needs that to help visualize what I am talking about.



    It is almost 8 PM. I am going to let it cool off a little bit more here. My reducer is designed for 75-85F. Once the garage and panels hit 85 F, I will tack off the panel and spot repair the burn through with color. I will then shut off the lights, turn on the single bug light and shut up the garage for the night. Clean the gun and get some rest. I will get up early in the morning and spray the clear. I then need to let that dry good before buffing. I will roll it outside once it is past the dust period. The hot Texas sun will help it cure. While I wait, I will finish the cut and buff on the drivers door and hood. I can then mount the hood scoop, finish polishing the aluminum side vents and maybe do some cleaning on the chasis. If all goes well and I don't have anymore mistakes, I will finish the bodywork this weekend. Then I am onto assembly. I am ready to drive this thing. LET"S DO THIS!!!
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  13. #293
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Spot in color

    I got color down on the burn through. It didn't take long. I put on one light coat to just cover the area. I then feathered in around the area. I would say I want 8-10" around the spot to kind of blend in the spot the best I could. It has already flashed and should be good for some clear. I want to wait until morning when the temps are in the 70's before I spray clear. I had a hard time with orange peel when I sprayed in the evenings. Not to mention the bugs......OH THE BUGS! Here is picture of the color applied.



    I forgot to show you guys my new toy. I was using a handheld LED light to check my paint work, swirls, buffing etc. It wasn't great and certainly didn't mimic sun light. I found this light on Amazon and it is really nice. Rechargeable, 400 lumens, and mimics sunlight. It was about $65 but worth it for paint work.



    Here is link on Amazon

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Hopefully I have some glass smooth clear to show you guys tomorrow. I plan on mixing and spraying clear just like before. 2:1:0.5. I am going to add that little bit of reducer like before. It seemed to help. Oh, I am going to watch for sweat. I have a plan for that as well. Wish me luck.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  14. #294


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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Been absent for a few days... Sorry about the burn through I had to reclear a quarter once (don't ask) and broke at the stripes and then blended at the tight radius below the door opening like you're doing. You'll never know after a cut and buff. Didn't think about lifting the tape while the clear was still laying down. That Miller has some pretty good tricks for a guy who has rocks in his head Good luck---I'll keep my fingers crossed that the bugs stay away!

    Jeff

  15. #295
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Repair

    I got the burn through on the quarter panel fixed. I got up early this morning (4:30 AM) and applied the clear on top of the color I sprayed last night. It turned out pretty good. The spot repair on the color is invisible. I can not tell where I started and stopped so I am very happy with that. The clear had a slight bit of orange peel and I will explain that in a bit. I ended up apply three coats of clear just for safety. Here is a picture of the finished product.



    Here is what I did on the clear. Last night after providing you guys an update, I thought more about the clear application. During the full clear application a few weeks ago, I used the 2:1:0.5 ratio. It worked great for orange peel, actually I had very little and could have lived with what I had. I had about the same level of orange peel as my Toyota truck. The only difference is my orange peel was not consistent. A little more in one area and almost none in another. I found that the horizontal surfaces allowed the clear to flow out better and had little to no issues, really smooth. The vertical surfaces had a little orange peel but if I tried to get them smooth they would develop some runs and sags. Jeff Miller told me that using reducer with my clear would help prevent orange peel but made the clear "saggy". He was right. The difference between a little orange peel, a perfect application, and a sag is just so small. A professional with years of experience can probably get this right most of the time but takes perfect technique. An amateur in a garage applying clear for the first time can not. So after stewing on this last night, I decided to use a little less reducer to see if that helped with runs and sags. I used a 2:1:0.25 ratio. That seemed to help prevent sags/runs and gave me a good chance for less orange peel. You guys were right, I am getting better with each application.

    Hopefully no more burn through. Wish me luck
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  16. #296
    Well done brother. I was hoping to catch you early enough to warn you that shooting clear over 800 is going to make your clear "Loose" because it won't have the bite it did when you shot it the first time....good thinking on your part to slow it down. What you just did is the same thing I was doing Denton (only you have much better light) I was spotting in the same Qt panel....ok, here's the rub......I RAN MINE ! yep, two big sags over the same place I was spotting in. I will tell you WHAT ! Between the temp and the humidity that clear was hammer dry the next morning. I got up and sanded out my runs, did my 1000, drove to OK and delivered a car, came back for the 1500/3000, buff and headed for the border. Proud of you brother. We will meet one day.....O-Ring and I have already talked about defiling the TCC with our presence and throwing you under the bus in the same visit sound like a grand idea. Keep it coming and as always you are welcome to call. xoxo ...da Bat

  17. #297
    Excellent Thread and very timely for me. I'll be starting my body work next week and this is a good reference not only on the techniques, but also the sequence, material and tools. I love the lessons learned and advice from the others. I've painted a few cars in the past but never a fiberglass body. Thanks for being so frank with the issues you had and I'm hoping I can avoid them but I'm sure I'll have issues of my own. Nice work, you should be proud.

    JD

  18. #298
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Cut and Buff

    Well, I am almost done. Took off work Friday and knocked out the remaining panels. I then got up early this morning and hit the cut and buff on the body. I had already sanded everything (except the resprayed back passenger panel) with 1000 grit. Knocked down the 1000 grit sanding scratches with 1500 grit. Followed that with the 3M buffing system. Went pretty well. Here are a couple of pictures.






    I have two small edges where I had a little burn through. Nothing bad. I will use my pin striping brushes and previously posted technique to touch those up. One is on the drivers door and the other on the hood. I also have one little area where I did get all the buffing scratches out. It is on the back of the cockpit roll on the passenger side. I am going to touch that up before mounting the body. The body cut and buff took about 11 hours total. I practiced on the other panels so it went a little faster than before.

    I have two minor problems that I have not resolved. Both are sags that are still noticeable. I did not completely remove then because I was scared of burn through the clear and having to repaint again. One is on the hood and the other is just behind the side louver on the drivers side. I am not sure what I am going to do about them. Worst case is I will live with them. I really don't want to mess this up at this stage. I know this may sound like heresy for some of you, but I might consult a professional and see if they might be able to safely address these two sags. I know, I have come this far but I feel good about what I have accomplished and don't mind asking for some help. If no one is willing to fix these small issues. I will be fine with them. It was my first paint job and I will be proud of it, flaws and all.

    With that, I think this is about it for the bodywork thread. I might come back and update this if I find anymore issues. Thanks to all those that followed along and offered advice. This is as much your success as mine. I could not have done it without the forum. A special thanks to Jeff Miller. He was kind enough to reach out and offer help over the phone. With out his guidance this certainly would not have been possible. Thanks Jeff. I know we have never met but I consider you a friend. Come on down for the TCC. I plan on going next year. Would love to meet you. Hopefully we won't get into too much trouble.

    Shannon. Now back to the build thread. Let's get this thing done.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  19. #299
    She looks fantastic and thank you so much for the excellent documentation of the process as well as the ups and downs.

    Since I am planning to use a 5 Stage Turbine System ... could you possible summarize your lessons learned and the settings you used at each stage of the application.

    Again, you should be very very proud of the outcome ... it is inspiring and wonderful.

    Very Respectfully,

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  20. #300
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Awesome thread and the results look great. You have every right to be proud of what you were able to get done! It's especially cool that you were able to get two gurus involved sharing their knowledge and techniques. Win-Win!

    I think this thread accomplished to things: 1) Gives a lot of great information and a roadmap for those want to do their own paint, 2) Convinced the rest of us why we have the pros do the work, even though it isn't cheap. I say that in the most positive and complimentary way possible.
    Last edited by edwardb; 08-12-2017 at 08:16 PM.
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  21. #301
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    She looks fantastic and thank you so much for the excellent documentation of the process as well as the ups and downs.

    Since I am planning to use a 5 Stage Turbine System ... could you possible summarize your lessons learned and the settings you used at each stage of the application.

    Again, you should be very very proud of the outcome ... it is inspiring and wonderful.

    Very Respectfully,

    Carl
    Carl,

    Thanks for the kind words. I will do my best and try to explain my turbine set up. I am no expert and used the advice from Jeff Miller to fine tune my set up and technique. I essentially practiced on some poster board until I got a pattern like Miller explained. I then sprayed a couple of pints of paint practicing.

    There really wasn't much adjusting of equipment. Three actually, two on the gun and one on the turbine unit. My turbine sprayer is an Apollo Power 5. The turbine unit really only has one adjustment. That is a high and low power setting. I found that the low power setting help with overspray. So that was how I sprayed the 2K primer, sealer, paint, and clear. I was using the Apollo Atomizer 7500 gun and it only has two adjustments. The gun set up I determined by trial and error. My goal was to hold the gun 6-8" from the panel and get a pattern that was about 8" wide with as little overspray as possible. As a general rule I found this was possible if I set the fan pattern at 50% between full open and closed. The flow needle I set to one full turn open. Here is the what I used with each product

    JP202 2K primer, JH302 hardener with JP507 slow reducer: 1.8 mm nozzle and needle.

    JP335 sealer, JH302, with JP507 reducer: 1.5 mm nozzle and needle

    JBP basecoat with JP507 reducer: 1.5 mm nozzle and needle

    JC6700 HS European Clear with JH6720 hardener: 1.5 mm nozzle and needle

    The set up and testing I did is in post #159. It might be a good way to get a visual of the adjustments. The only real deviation from the set up above was with the clear. I opened the needle just past one full turn on coats 2-3. That seemed to allow a smoother finish. Really the technique is the most important. Miller told me to get a set up I liked and learn to spray with it. He told me that different painters have a different set up and learn to be successful with it. So that is what I did. I really just got something I thought would work and learned to spray that. I got better with each application. The clear is the was the hardest to spray. Everything below the base and clear seemed pretty easy to address. Sand and repeat. The base coat was the easiest to spray. Clear was the hardest but really because it is the layer most visible. Every flaw shows up in the clear.

    That is what I learned. Sorry for rambling. Hope that helps. PM me if you have any questions. Again, I am no expert but I am willing to talk through what I have learned.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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  22. #302
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Awesome thread and the results look great. You have every right to be proud of what you were able to get done! It's especially cool that you were able to get two gurus involved sharing their knowledge and techniques. Win-Win!

    I think this thread accomplished to things: 1) Gives a lot of great information and a roadmap for those want to do their own paint, 2) Convinced the rest of us why we have the pros do the work, even though it isn't cheap. I say that in the most positive and complimentary way possible.
    Thanks edwardb. Your build threads are legendary and the gold standard for documenting immaculate work. Referring to my thread as "awesome" is a real compliment. I will say, painting is a lot of work and quite a bit of stress. But it feels to good to see the final product, even with a few flaws. With realistic expectations (you are going to have some flaws), it is a rewarding experience.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  23. #303
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    One final update. I forgot to provide the final tally on hours........226 of bodywork.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  24. #304
    Great thread. I don't think it will be complete when until we see the body mounted on the finished car. I am sure you will do a graduation thread but add some complete pictures in this thread as well. It will be good for future viewers to be able to see the finished project.
    I really commend you for tackling this and documenting it so well for everyone to see the entire process. Well done!
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
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  25. #305
    what color red is that it's a real nice color with those stripes?

  26. #306
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alv69 View Post
    what color red is that it's a real nice color with those stripes?
    The red is a Chrysler color called Blaze Red Crystal Pearl. The paint code is PRH/ARH.

    That wasn't the first color I selected. I had originally chosen Ford's Ruby Red Metallic, paint code RR. When I found out it was a 3 stage paint I felt like that might be a bit much for a first paint job. I then spent about an hour at my paint supply house looking at paint chips. I found PRH, and it was real close to RR. Probably doesn't have the same depth or pop but it was doable for me.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  27. #307
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    Absolutely a great job! Be very proud of your work. Congrats! Now finish it up and drive on.
    1972 Corvette Stingray 350 c.i. Manual Steering & Brakes
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  28. #308

  29. #309
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    Great Job!! Beautiful Work!
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
    Greenhorn and doing the best I can
    My photos are at: My Flickr acct
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    Blog @ BuildaRoadster.com

  30. #310
    Really, that's it......we're done here....but,,,,,,Butt,,,,,BUTT !!!! I GOT NO PLACE TO GO....oh! somebody left this bottle of rum, and it's full....I'M GOOD !!! catch ya on the flip side !....da Bat

  31. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by j.miller View Post
    Really, that's it......we're done here....but,,,,,,Butt,,,,,BUTT !!!! I GOT NO PLACE TO GO....oh! somebody left this bottle of rum, and it's full....I'M GOOD !!! catch ya on the flip side !....da Bat
    You are definitely "An Officer and a Gentleman" now, I want you D.O.R.
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  32. #312
    Thanks so much for the additional information ... I am getting close (I think) to starting and I plan on using your great thread as my guide.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

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