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Thread: GTO LS2 Donor or New Ford Engine?

  1. #1
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    GTO LS2 Donor or New Ford Engine?

    I’m a long-time fan of Factory Five cars. I was first introduced to the brand about 15 years ago when time and money were in short supply. Now I’m in a better position to do a build but I have the following questions:
    Goals: Build an MK4, 289 or Type 65 coupe with something like 400HP
    Skill-level: Beginner (plan on doing the Mott build school)
    Height: 6’ 4”
    Quality goal: Build a nice looking car, but doesn’t need to be perfect
    Question 1: Which of the three cars would fit me best given my height, or can that not an issue?
    Question 2: Which of the three cars is easiest – hardest to build?
    Question 3: I’m a fan of Chevy small blocks. In fact, I have a 2005 GTO that I’ve had since I bought it new. It has 150K of easy commute miles on it (it’s been my daily driver back and forth to work for 10+ years). No mods or hard driving. Back when I bought the GTO, I was thinking about buying a Mustang with the end goal of using it as a donor car at some point. At the time, however, the GTO won out and I’ve been driving it ever since—great car. I plan on buying a complete kit, regardless of which build I decide on, but need everyone’s advice about the engine. I could probably sell the GTO for $8K or $9K. Should I sell the car and then use that $$ for a new Ford engine and running gear, or attempt using the LS2 (400 HP) and tremec transmission from the GTO? I’ve read some posts on using a Chevy small block in an MK4 and most of the answers start out “it’s easy” and then there are three pages of discussion on the process.

  2. #2

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    For ease of installation, I'd recommend a Small Block Ford instead of ripping apart your G.T.O.

    1. I am a big fan of the LS platform, but understand that you will be on your own if you go outside to the suggested drive lines.
    2. Because of your size, you will likely need the Kirkey Racing Seats, which will give you some additional leg room in order to fit in a MK-4.
    3. I suggest seeking out a Forum Member in your area to check out their car and to see how well you fit, plus you might luck out and get a ride too.
    4. Buy the assembly manual and read it a few times, then go the build school if you are unsure of your skills.
    5. If I didn't have an engine & transmission sitting around looking for a home, I would have probably purchased a carburated LS-3 from Pace Performance with a TKO-600 sitting behind it, but going Ford Is A Way Easier Path!

    http://paceperformance.com/i-2384241...ve-covers.html

    6. The big fellow in the attached video is my older brother, who is also 6'4" and he doesn't fit well in my car because he's got a 36" inseam and size 15 feet. (I Don't Have Kirkey Seats)

    https://youtu.be/3f1Q4aS5SG4

    7. Keep The G.T.O. because the older it gets, the cooler it will get.

    https://youtu.be/svZX2BMSDEs

    Welcome to the family known as Factory Five Racing!
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 05-01-2017 at 09:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    The Chevy engine is a great piece but I don't think it's worth the effort to use. The new coupe has significantly more room once you are inside. It's tougher to get into though as you need to get under the roof. I would look closely at it though as the new version is a much more sophisticated chassis than the roadster is. The coupe is a little more difficult to build. Body fitment is tougher. Read through the three or four build threads that are going on now as well as the John George racer thread.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

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    I can't give you advice on the coupe/roadster because I am in the same boat as you right now trying to decide between the two, I just want to comment what a wonderful engine the LS series is. Compared to the newer 5.0 coyote style ford engine the LS is a more compact and can be a much cheaper platform that makes similar power. I had a near stock Ls1 (Cam, valvetrain, oiling upgrades) in a track/drift only car for years and it never gave me a hiccup after thousands of hard, HARD miles. It was so reliable that at a point, I was just changing tires while the car was on the trailer not having to do a single thing between events. it was GLORIOUS.

    The major downside is you are going to be "on your own" for a lot of things and as someone who does not have a ton of experience I would think that might provide a serious challenge for you. With that being said the LS platform has an unbelievable amount of information out there on the internet and any question you might have, has been answered somewhere at some time. There's a reason a running joke on the internet is "put a LS in it" because someone has, somewhere.
    Last edited by ProJoe; 05-02-2017 at 12:19 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    mas888,

    I can't tell you which way to go, but if you decide to go the small block Ford route, BluePrint Engines can help out. We have engine and tranny combos for the roadster and '33. The parts in the combos were handpicked by Factory Five guys to work in their cars. If those don't do it for you, we have a ton of custom build options. We could even build you a bad *** LS so you can keep the GTO on the road.

    http://factoryfiveengines.com/

    http://blueprintengines.com/

    or

    1-800-483-4263
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  6. #6
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    Like you, I'm kind of a GM guy and have been putting early Gen I and GenIII/IV LS motors in several dissimilar branded vehicles(mostly Jeeps). I am currently in the midst of building an MKIV(base model) with an LS 376/525 and T56 Magnum drivetrain. I 100% agree with GoDadGo who is also building a GM-engined car(Gen I small-block) about the GM vs Ford question. If this is your first endeavor into car fabrication/rebuilding/restoration, the "ease of build" argument would absolutely go in favor of a Ford powerplant. By FAR the easiest build would be a carb'ed Ford small block. Everything to complete the build is a quick search of the forum and click of the mouse away since it's all been done hundreds(and thousands...) of times in the past. Wonder if a part you like will work, someone has most likely already tried it and knows the answer. The Ford Coyote engine has also become popular with good FFR-specific aftermarket support if you want a more modern motor similar to an LS.

    Having done lots of non-FFR builds, I decided I had enough experience in welding/fabricating parts(engine mounts, headers, accessory mounts, etc...) that I could go non-Ford. Although that has proven true, I have very much extended my build time and have spent countless hours and days on the interwebs searching out solutions for FFR-specific problems when using a non-Ford motor. Nothing insurmountable, just LOTS of additional research. Everything from combining RF wiring harness and GMPP crate engine harnesses together, to engine placement/offset, to radiator steam ports.

    A couple other things to contemplate. If resale is even any part of your thought process, I'd highly suggest a Ford powerplant. GM engines in Cobra-replicas are not very universally appreciated and WILL affect resale. I don't want your worthwhile thread to spiral into a debate, I'm simply speaking from experience. Talk about your Roadster build and people get interested. Tell them it's a GM engine and you often get a look of disdain and questions of "but why?" If you don't want a good healthy debate with Ford lovers, you may want to shy away from an LS. GM/Ford is much like hard-core Republican/Democrat, there is no sense in trying to change someone's mind, so don't bother.

    On the positive side, mine has been a very fun build. I enjoy challenges and having an opportunity to pave new ground, and since my introduction to FFR 10 years ago, I've always wanted to build an LS-powered Roadster. I'm not sure where you're located, but if you're in southern WI or northern IL, let me know. You're more than welcome to come see my progress on the build, the challenges I've come across, and the solutions I've worked out.

    I am significantly further along than this old pic, but the LS/T56M package fits nicely in the chassis. The "M" in T56M could stand for monster instead of Magnum due to it's size, but it fits, especially with the small overall package size of the LS.



    -TJ

  7. #7
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    I have to agree with jeepurz on the why GM question. A friend of mine built his with 350 Chevy fuel injected crate engine from GM. He is a died in the wool GM guy and won't consider anything else. His car is painted Corvette silver with black stripes and has bow tie emblems at the end of the stripes. He gets a lot of "Why" and "What were you thinking" remarks.
    I have been in this car hobby thing for many years (more than 60 years) and have always believed if you build a Chevy put a Chevy in it and if you build a Ford put a Ford in it. Yes I know the AC cars had Bristol engines in them before they became the Cobra and from there on they were Ford powered..................................I guess you know what camp I am in. -- Chuck

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the support Chuck, but to be clear, I'm 100% in favor of running whatever engine/vehicle combos make sense to each person. I'm actually kinda like your friend, for me the LS engine in a Roadster was my only consideration, a Ford was never even a blip on the radar. I just want anyone following a similar path to know that it isn't a generally accepted practice and will instigate some weird looks and hurt feelings. I personally enjoy the rib'ing I get from friends and like to keep the banter lively.

    As an additional and often over-looked side note to your AC history, Carroll actually went to GM first when trying to source motors. They already had the decently-selling Corvette and didn't want any unneeded competition and said "nope". The Ford/Shelby partnership flourished and the rest is history.

    -TJ

  9. #9
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Nothing against using a GM engine (just ask GoDadGo ) but based on this statement...

    Quote Originally Posted by mas8888 View Post
    Skill-level: Beginner
    ...I'd recommend that you stick with a small block Ford. If you go with an LS, SBC or other powerplant that is not supported by FFR you're going to be on your own for fabricating headers, mounts, cooling system and more. Do you have the determination, skills and equipment to do that? If not I think you'll find that the project will go much more smoothly for you if you stick to a proven recipe.

    Jeff

  10. #10

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    If you want to add 75-100 hours to your project, then go with an alternate drive-line. Just understand that your skills will determine the outcome so be realistic.

    Do you have a support group as good as mine?

    1. My pal Darrell mounted my engine because he knows how to do that stuff.
    2. My Motor Mentor Mr. Boyd, built my engine because a lot of stroker motor clearance work was needed.
    3. My neighbor Mike comes over to check & inspect my work, because he's a certified master mechanic for over 25 years.
    4. My riding bud Ernie is going to help me with body works and paint, but he owns a body shop.
    ....(Dependable Paint & Body / Slidell, La. / Established 1978)

    My point is: Don't Make Stone Soup Unless You Have The Expertise And/Or Friends To Help You Stir The Pot!

    Go With A SBF & You Won't Be Sorry!

    https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

    Steve (The Wrench Swinging Commercial Banker)
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 05-03-2017 at 09:34 AM.

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    Huge thanks to everyone for your insightful comments. I'm still trying to digest a lot of what's been said and I appreciate GoDadGo being forthcoming with all of the extra 'help' he has on the side. I don't have that level of support available and I'd like to get the car done in a realistic timeframe. Even though I like the LS engines, etc. a SBF or coyote build is probably appropriate for my skill level and goals for the car. Again, huge thanks to everyone. I'll keep following the boards and will let everyone know when I pull the trigger. Thanks!

  12. #12
    Jazzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Nothing against using a GM engine (just ask GoDadGo ) but based on this statement...



    ...I'd recommend that you stick with a small block Ford. If you go with an LS, SBC or other powerplant that is not supported by FFR you're going to be on your own for fabricating headers, mounts, cooling system and more. Do you have the determination, skills and equipment to do that? If not I think you'll find that the project will go much more smoothly for you if you stick to a proven recipe.

    Jeff
    And if Jeff says so, that's all the reason you need! He is one of the true experts.
    Jazzman

    MKIV #8745 "Flip Top" Roadster, Custom Tilt front, Coyote Engine, Tremec TKO600, Custom Interior. Best of Show winner, Huntington Beach Cruise In 2018.

    1967 Ford Mustang Coupe build thread updated 1/22/2021

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