2015 Coyote Tune

[grluisi150]

My roadster is currently at the tuner to retune the ECU for the non-stock intake and shorty headers. Today I got a call telling me the RWHP is 407 (not bad) but they said they had to resolve the idle stalling issue. I relayed all the information I received from Ford and this forum about the deleted speed signal for the 2015 ECU and the new clutch peddle switches. But they seem to insist that they worked on other 2015 coyotes with the same problem. This speed shop specializes in coyote upgrades and most of the mechanics drive mustang GT's. It will be interesting what happens, how they resolve this. Ill keep the forum updated.

Gary

[edwardb]

Posted this on the other forum as well: My 2015 Coyote crate now has 150 miles on the stock tune. Not exactly a cross country drive, but mostly stop and go driving and enough to tell what's happening. Absolutely zero hint of a stalling issue at idle. Installed per the instructions with the clutch switches. Runs perfectly. I've heard others say the same thing with the Gen 2 Coyote. If your tuner has a stalling issue, it's something they did. Ford fixed it with their tune and the changes made.

[grluisi150]

Thanks, I have 300 miles on stock tune with no stalling issues. The shop is only half way through their tune process. They are now working on drivability. So I would expect they should resolve it shortly.

Gary

[edwardb]

Thanks, I have 300 miles on stock tune with no stalling issues. The shop is only half way through their tune process. They are now working on drivability. So I would expect they should resolve it shortly.

Gary

Good to hear. Your first post made it sound like the tuner didn't think the problem was solved in the Gen 2 Coyotes. Maybe even needing the speed dial module like the Gen 1 Coyote. Official party line from Ford plus experience shows that not to the case.

Out of curiosity, what was your motivation for the custom tune? Only more power? Or some other technical, performance, or driveability issue?

[grluisi150]

My motivation is First, Ford recommends having the tune because of upgraded air box. Second, that the stock tune is just that "stock" and it can be improved. My observations are that RPM over 2K is smooth and strong, under 2K it could be smother. I'm not looking for max HP, I can't image the difference between 407 and 390 RWHP. In the future when I learn the capability of the car I expect the performance is controllable and consistent and of course FAST.

Gary

[edwardb]

I'm pleased with how mine runs on the stock tune. Seems smooth at every RPM I've tried so far. Especially interesting at idle where you can hear the change as the cams are phased and it settles down into a very smooth (too smooth?) idle. I'll be very interested to hear what you think of the new tune.

I too have been told by Ford several times that I needed a custom tune because of the non-stock cold air intake. But then in other calls the Ford tech said it would probably be OK. Their concern seemed to be about lean running. To that end, as I reported in my graduation thread, I've been using an ODB2 scan tool that streams live data. I've noted while monitoring that the target AFR and actual AFR out of both banks is basically the same line on the graph. No sign whatsoever of a lean run condition. So I've delayed doing anything with a custom tune because I'm satisfied the engine isn't going to hurt itself. But, as I said, will be very interested to hear what you think about the custom tune once completed. Thanks for reporting about this.

[Dave Howard]

My roadster is currently at the tuner to retune the ECU for the non-stock intake and shorty headers. Today I got a call telling me the RWHP is 407 (not bad) but they said they had to resolve the idle stalling issue. I relayed all the information I received from Ford and this forum about the deleted speed signal for the 2015 ECU and the new clutch peddle switches. But they seem to insist that they worked on other 2015 coyotes with the same problem. This speed shop specializes in coyote upgrades and most of the mechanics drive mustang GT's. It will be interesting what happens, how they resolve this. Ill keep the forum updated.

Gary

Some people are of the opinion the GEN 2 Coyote stock tune is superior to the Gen 1 Coyote tune. If the Gen2 software has eliminated the stall issue then it can be said the tune is superior. Its always a little risky to make assumptions though. Like assuming your Gen 2 Coyote in a FFR roadster is developing the stated HP when the tune provided if for a "stock" installation. The stock tune will start your car and get you down the road. And if you are a new Coyote driver with a couple of hours behind the steering wheel you might think WOW, this is pretty good. Just because you've added headers and a Specre intake with K&N filter doesn't mean you're going to develop more HP. In fact, with the stock tune you might be developing lest HP that what Ford Racing says the Gen 2 Coyote has out of the box. The only way to know is to dyno the car. Now some folks are afraid to do that because it required a handful of pulls at 7,000 revs.

Like you Gary, I too thought it was important for a custom tune. Custom tunes aren't about making big HP gains, its about having the engine operate as best it can as designed in the configuration that you installed it in. You wouldn't buy a new home computer then try running it with the DOS from the Commodore 64.

My experience after 18,000 miles on my Gen1 Coyote with a custom tune is ALL positive. It runs great, efficient. I'm not concerned with what the Ford Tech guys say. The reality is, those guys are always going to error on the side of safety. These motors are overdesigned and can take a ton of punishment. A little tweek to the tune won't hurt a thing. Good luck with your engine. Make sure you post the results back on the forum for others to quote.

[edwardb]

Some people are of the opinion the GEN 2 Coyote stock tune is superior to the Gen 1 Coyote tune. If the Gen2 software has eliminated the stall issue then it can be said the tune is superior. Its always a little risky to make assumptions though. Like assuming your Gen 2 Coyote in a FFR roadster is developing the stated HP when the tune provided if for a "stock" installation. The stock tune will start your car and get you down the road. And if you are a new Coyote driver with a couple of hours behind the steering wheel you might think WOW, this is pretty good. Just because you've added headers and a Specre intake with K&N filter doesn't mean you're going to develop more HP. In fact, with the stock tune you might be developing lest HP that what Ford Racing says the Gen 2 Coyote has out of the box. The only way to know is to dyno the car. Now some folks are afraid to do that because it required a handful of pulls at 7,000 revs.

Like you Gary, I too thought it was important for a custom tune. Custom tunes aren't about making big HP gains, its about having the engine operate as best it can as designed in the configuration that you installed it in. You wouldn't buy a new home computer then try running it with the DOS from the Commodore 64.

My experience after 18,000 miles on my Gen1 Coyote with a custom tune is ALL positive. It runs great, efficient. I'm not concerned with what the Ford Tech guys say. The reality is, those guys are always going to error on the side of safety. These motors are overdesigned and can take a ton of punishment. A little tweek to the tune won't hurt a thing. Good luck with your engine. Make sure you post the results back on the forum for others to quote.

Your comments seem not so subtly in response to mine. My better sense says just walk away. But these points for the record:

(1) I've never said the Gen 2 factory tune is any better than the Gen 1 factory tune. Never heard anyone else say that either. My point to the OP was only that the speed dial module is not needed for the Gen 2 as Ford has solved the stall issue without it, and that he should be skeptical if the shop tuning his engine says otherwise.

(2) I've never made any assumptions or representations of what I think the HP is with the stock tune. With or without the non-stock cold air intake and exhaust headers. Is it more than the rated HP or less? I don't know.

(3) I value the support from Ford Performance. Do they give conservative answers that protect the engine? Probably yes. But I'm OK with that. I'm a self-admitted beginner with this engine and have no interest in ham fisting it. Plus they have the final say on any warranty claims. Kind of important. On several occasions they didn't know the answer to my questions and checked with the engineers who designed the engine and software. They should know. Can't get that anywhere else.

(4) Are my observations about how the engine runs based on only a couple hours in the driver's seat? Yes, and I've said that every time. The build was just finished so it's a little hard for me to cite thousands of miles of driving. But that doesn't mean my initial observations aren't valid or should be discredited. This isn't my first rodeo. I have a pretty good idea when something is running well or not and what I can feel in my backside. Plus I'm monitoring it technically to make sure it's not running lean which is what Ford has warned about. This monitoring also shows it's operating well.

(5) I'm not opposed to a custom tune if it improves how the engine runs. Right now I'm happy with how the stock tune runs. But if there's something better, great. I'm very interesting in getting the OP's feedback on the custom tune, as I stated in one of my responses. There has been very little solid information on custom tunes for the Gen 2 Coyote.

Oh, and the 30+ year old Commodore 64 OS reference? Don't see how that applies. But thanks for the blast from the past. We had a TI-99/4A back then. With programs on cassette tapes. Those were the days.

[Dave Howard]

GARY

Looking forward to the constructive results of your tune. Post your dyno results if you can. It'll be interesting to see the before and after data.

[Duke]

My roadster is currently at the tuner to retune the ECU for the non-stock intake and shorty headers. Today I got a call telling me the RWHP is 407 (not bad) but they said they had to resolve the idle stalling issue. I relayed all the information I received from Ford and this forum about the deleted speed signal for the 2015 ECU and the new clutch peddle switches. But they seem to insist that they worked on other 2015 coyotes with the same problem. This speed shop specializes in coyote upgrades and most of the mechanics drive mustang GT's. It will be interesting what happens, how they resolve this. Ill keep the forum updated.

Gary

What headers are you running? Did you have the P0116 code issue that came with some of the early 2015 crate PCM's?

I've been working with Jon over at Lund racing and am very pleased with my tune thus far. We've worked through about 2 dozen data logging sessions to get everything right, including having to send the PCM back to Ford for to fix the P0116 code issue, then having Lund take the fix, go into the binary code and update his tune to replicate the Ford fix. From my notes, something to do with setting ECT_DELTA to 254 and DSDN_CMD_CH and DSDN_DMD_SL to 4095. During my tune logging sessions we also uncovered I had a bad O2 sensor from the factory. My guess is that some of the anti seize got onto the sensor and burnt itself on.

[grluisi150]

I went with FFR shorty headers and J pipes. Yes I have one of the early 2015 coyotes. I did get the P0116 code and sent the ECU to Ford for flashing. I also gave the tuner the patch for the P0116 code.

I asked the shop for the Dyno runs. I will post the runs. I'm also interested in getting the PID codes so I can configure Torque to access real-time ODBII data for the coyote.

Gary

[Wylie Coyote]

Hey Gary,

Good idea on the tune. Especially if you're using FFR shorty headers and J-pipes. The flow characteristics will be quite different from what the stock tune on the ECU provided from Ford Racing. You definitely will see A difference from stock.

HOWARD. Although I don't believe there is a significant difference between Gen I and II programs, I am in agreement with you on a custom tune for the Coyote in the Roadster installation. It should be part of a builders plan and budget.

[grluisi150]

Picked up car from tuner today. Unfortunately it was stop and go traffic all the way home . I guess I'll have to wait till the weekend to see how good it runs. Initial feel is its much smoother below 2K. As far as the stalling issue their was no issue. It may have happen once during testing tunes but nothing else was needed. And I miss heard the HP number it's 400.7 still I can't complain. Torque looks like about 380.

Gary

Dyno run.jpg